Third Party DPS/Gear Checkers Green Light Toxicity

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Dreamwolf.7423" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > I actually got kicked from one group because I changed out a weapon for a fight. No warning, just booted.

> > > > If no one actually told you why you were /kicked, it's hard to know if it happened because you were swapping a weapon or that just happened to be coincidental timing, especially if there was some whispered discussion prior to the kick.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > They asked if I was running Greatsword, and I said, "yes, I just swapped to it." Then I was kicked.

> > What class were you running?

> >

> A couple of things:

> * According to the OP, they weren't using a gearchecker to determine what the OP was running. Someone asked and the OP told them

> * We don't have any other context. Was this the first communication? Or the umpteenth? Had the GL asked for specific weapons|skills or perhaps specific tactics from the different party members?

 

I was asking because i _can_ think of a few cases where running GS might bring some negative attention. Whether that would be a ground for kicking or not, obviously would depend on other considerations (like, for example, the exact LFG text).

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Kako.1930" said:

> This is why guilds are so great. :3 You can join up with friends who think alike and not have to worry about toxic elitists.

>

> Now, if only the macro wielding jagoffs would team up to program their brains out together and leave the rest of the community alone as well, that would be great. XD

 

If you were in my guild I'd kick you for that kind of talk tbh. It's equally as toxic to expect other people not to play with who they want to, but think you are allowed to.

 

This is what we like to call a double standard.

[FOX.3582]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> You need to take on a more positive attitude with these kinds of changes to the game, don't think of it as a growing population of toxic elitists and a move to drive out casual carebears and bads from the game.

>

> Think of it as a restructuring of clientele, so that Anets population can be stronger then it ever was before, with more dedicated players.

>

> Of course with any restructure, some people are welcome to move on _other better things_ as they say, or, take the offer they are given if they want to stay around.

 

What the... I am very neutral on this topic but people like you, just wow. Do you even have the slightest ability to sympathize with other people and other opinions? And if what you’re saying is true, should the “hardcore” players not be the ones to leave, since this game was originally not created for people like them? It’s funny how some people try to turn everything towards their own satisfactions...

[Demented Sheep.1642]

it's an **online** game with group content. You can play how you want but other people are going to react to that and some players are assholes. Nothing Anet can do about that and he would have been toxic either way.

 

Plenty of people use dps meters without being an ass about it. It should be allowed. Infact while I don't use one right now I might go get one because I want to know how I'm doing with that so I can improve and compare builds/methods more easily.

 

Just block and move on.

[Demented Sheep.1642]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"WARIORSCHARGEING.2637" said:

> > another reason why it is so many left the game and only play the game these days from time to time . after anet said ok to DPS METERS well that was when the salt gates opened and never will be shut again . anet loves having lots of salt in this game !! as well as other things in this game that came with these DPS meters !! it also brought a lot of wow players to this game as well too.

> >

> > which i can understand why that is but the toxics that came with them .well that damaged the game even more with anet saying its all ok !!

>

> "Arah full run lvl 80 full zerk 10k ap"

 

Honestly? I never understood why people had such an issue with this. You can see what sort of players they are before joining and pick a group accordingly. Everyone wins. There were more groups like that than I would have liked so it made finding a group a bit harder but that's my problem. Just because I would prefer to be more chill about it doesn't mean others must be as well.

 

To be clear, I'm fairly casual. I've joined a group like that a few times when I was after a specific reward or playing on a time limit but for the most part I join and make casual, no req groups and don't complain if the group fails or is slow. Even if I am getting frustrated I don’t blast other players and tend to stick around trying to help because I feel bad ditching groups.

 

However, if other players want to speed run and because of that list requirements in the LFG then that is perfectly fine. If you don't want to play like that, then don't join that group. Kicking players who are preforming badly in a speed run (remember many of these players are running it over and over and over again, wasted time adds up) is also fair enough.

 

If someone joins a group that had no specific requirements and starts blasting people for using non meta builds, not being as skilled or because they are inexperienced and don’t know the fights yet then that person is being toxic.

If someone joins a group with requirements, no matter how unnecessary or misguided they think those requirements are, knowing they don't meet them then they are equally as bad

 

[Kako.1930]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > This is why guilds are so great. :3 You can join up with friends who think alike and not have to worry about toxic elitists.

> >

> > Now, if only the macro wielding jagoffs would team up to program their brains out together and leave the rest of the community alone as well, that would be great. XD

>

> If you were in my guild I'd kick you for that kind of talk tbh. It's equally as toxic to expect other people not to play with who they want to, but think you are allowed to.

>

> This is what we like to call a double standard.

 

Not really, the standard is that if you're going to harass pugs for not using the gear you think they should use because you're running a third party program to spy on them then you should just find like-minded individuals to play with, same as if you don't use a third party program and you want to find other friendly non-judgmental players to play with. I NEVER said that I think it's ok to harass and kick people for using third party programs either. That would be when I use a double standard.

 

This is why I've joined a friendly guild of players who won't harass one another for not playing the way they want them to play, and not your guild. You don't have to worry about mass kicking players and I don't have to worry about being harassed for not playing a certain way. Win-win. :3

 

Edit for clarification: It's not the third party program I have a problem with, it's the way that some of the people that use these programs treat other players. I couldn't care less if you use macros or third party programs or not as long as you're not harassing others.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> Tbh? DPS metres breathed new life into the game for me. When I deal 20% of a bosses health, and the rest of the 40 man group did about 3-5% damage... I don't flame them for not putting in as much effort or whatever, but it's nice that the metre speaks for itself if anyone ever accused me of leeching/slacking.

>

> Metres show the truth. And I see no reason to hide from it.

 

I don't run a dps meter myself, but the guild leader for the guild I raid with does and I asked him to privately tell me how my dps was and have used the information to become a better player. I can see how my dps was and compare it to how I did before. Then I can think back on what I did differently that resulted in the higher or lower dps.

 

There will always be toxic people in any game. And harder content brings out the worst in people. You learn tricks to either avoid it or deal with it. I make sure that when I do harder end game content I do so with people I know. If I find a group displays behavior that I dislike or that makes me uncomfortable I politely step out of it and wish them the best.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

>

> So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

 

I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

> >

> > So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

>

> I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

> Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

> Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

> Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

 

You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys. So who got harmed?

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

> > >

> > > So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

> >

> > I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

> > Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

> > Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

> > Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

>

> You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys.

 

It doesnt matter if YOU dont see any harm done by gear checks as you dont own the game. If you go onto someone else's property you agree to abide by their rules.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> It doesnt matter if YOU dont see any harm done by gear checks as you dont own the game. If you go onto someone else's property you agree to abide by their rules.

 

So, who got harmed?

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > It doesnt matter if YOU dont see any harm done by gear checks as you dont own the game. If you go onto someone else's property you agree to abide by their rules.

>

> So, who got harmed?

 

ANet and the player base.

[TwoGhosts.6790]

I was on the fence about ArcDPS, for a long time... when I wasn't using it.

During that time, playing only in WvW squads really, I never once had anyone else who was monitoring my dps give me a hard time personally.

About 4 months ago I thought I'd finally try it, and I have to say it's been a positive decision.

I use it to monitor my own progress, to evaluate for myself what I'm contributing to my squad (compared to what I think the expectations of that are within my group).

It's also useful to see how things change with any gear/stat changes I experiment with, and to see how my performance compares to others who have a different gear selection to me.

I have experienced no toxicity whatsoever to do with ArcDPS from anyone with whom I regularly play (in WvW); many people in my guild run ArcDPS, and it seems that we all find it a useful way to benchmark our performance and progress. In open raids you occasionally come across some tryhard who starts throwing around general comments about their assessment of other peoples' Arc values, but I've never seen that aimed at a specific individual, and anyway I take all that with a pinch of salt really ('scuse the pun); when I'm playing I only really value my guildies' opinions, and my own.

I've found the information I get from ArcDPS, and the uses to which that is put, to be helpful, sometimes surprising, and always positive (in terms of my own, and my group's development).

I would recommend ArcDPS to anyone who is remotely interested in understanding more deeply how their class, gear selection and play-style is working out for them.

And like it says, right at the top of the ArcDPS 'how to use' page, "Don't be a dick."

~TG

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

> > >

> > > So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

> >

> > I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

> > Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

> > Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

> > Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

>

> You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys. So who got harmed?

 

By that logic, the rules and laws are not necessary. In Germany, for example, you are not allowed to posses fire arms without permission. By your logic, it is ok, if everyone goes and buys guns. No harm done alone from possessing them, right? Why would we need such law on first place? Why do we need rules on first place. Why are there ToS etc.?

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > So, who got harmed?

>

> ANet and the player base.

 

Can you maybe give an example when and how exactly someone got harmed by another player using a gear check tool? (you can invent a theoretical scenario if you like, for the sake of it)

 

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys. So who got harmed?

>

> By that logic, the rules and laws are not necessary. In Germany, for example, you are not allowed to posses fire arms without permission. By your logic, it is ok, if everyone goes and buys guns. No harm done alone from possessing them, right? Why would we need such law on first place? Why do we need rules on first place. Why are there ToS etc.?

 

Now, don't you think that is quite a far-fetched comparison? Since you are German, you are not even bound the ToS. Comparing it with actual law is not useful here.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

> > > >

> > > > So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

> > >

> > > I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

> > > Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

> > > Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

> > > Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

> >

> > You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys. So who got harmed?

>

> By that logic, the rules and laws are not necessary. In Germany, for example, you are not allowed to posses fire arms without permission. By your logic, it is ok, if everyone goes and buys guns. No harm done alone from possessing them, right? Why would we need such law on first place? Why do we need rules on first place. Why are there ToS etc.?

 

You can't compare those examples. Guns are tools which can instantly end a human life with ease. We're talking about a DPS metre in a video game. Consider the worst use for a gun, and the worst use for a dps metre. Now I'm sure you agree it was an absurd comparison.

 

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > So, who got harmed?

> >

> > ANet and the player base.

>

> Can you maybe give an example when and how exactly someone got harmed by another player using a gear check tool? (you can invent a theoretical scenario if you like, for the sake of it)

>

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys. So who got harmed?

> >

> > By that logic, the rules and laws are not necessary. In Germany, for example, you are not allowed to posses fire arms without permission. By your logic, it is ok, if everyone goes and buys guns. No harm done alone from possessing them, right? Why would we need such law on first place? Why do we need rules on first place. Why are there ToS etc.?

>

> Now, don't you think that is quite a far-fetched comparison? Since you are German, you are not even bound the ToS. Comparing it with actual law is not useful here.

 

Time spent investigating, researching, and (potentially) acting on any given possible violation of the game's rules or terms of use takes resources that could be used elsewhere. Dishonest people, or those ignorant of the rules they promised to abide by, violating the rules is a distraction and a resource drain on the company.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Kako.1930" said:

> > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > > This is why guilds are so great. :3 You can join up with friends who think alike and not have to worry about toxic elitists.

> > >

> > > Now, if only the macro wielding jagoffs would team up to program their brains out together and leave the rest of the community alone as well, that would be great. XD

> >

> > If you were in my guild I'd kick you for that kind of talk tbh. It's equally as toxic to expect other people not to play with who they want to, but think you are allowed to.

> >

> > This is what we like to call a double standard.

>

> Not really, the standard is that if you're going to harass pugs for not using the gear you think they should use because you're running a third party program to spy on them then you should just find like-minded individuals to play with, same as if you don't use a third party program and you want to find other friendly non-judgmental players to play with. I NEVER said that I think it's ok to harass and kick people for using third party programs either. That would be when I use a double standard.

>

> This is why I've joined a friendly guild of players who won't harass one another for not playing the way they want them to play, and not your guild. You don't have to worry about mass kicking players and I don't have to worry about being harassed for not playing a certain way. Win-win. :3

>

> Edit for clarification: It's not the third party program I have a problem with, it's the way that some of the people that use these programs treat other players. I couldn't care less if you use macros or third party programs or not as long as you're not harassing others.

 

TBH, you don't need a third party program to tell someone's playing badly.

Hey sometimes it's not even the lowest dpser that's the problem. I've had several times that a guy had high dps but lower total damage than the supports because he was **dead all the time**.

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

> > > >

> > > > So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

> > >

> > > I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

> > > Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

> > > Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

> > > Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

> >

> > You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys.

>

> It doesnt matter if YOU dont see any harm done by gear checks as you dont own the game. If you go onto someone else's property you agree to abide by their rules.

 

But then again, by that same standard if Arena Net isn't punishing them, they don't feel he's causing harm? Maybe?

 

[Ashen.2907]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > > > This is why guilds are so great. :3 You can join up with friends who think alike and not have to worry about toxic elitists.

> > > >

> > > > Now, if only the macro wielding jagoffs would team up to program their brains out together and leave the rest of the community alone as well, that would be great. XD

> > >

> > > If you were in my guild I'd kick you for that kind of talk tbh. It's equally as toxic to expect other people not to play with who they want to, but think you are allowed to.

> > >

> > > This is what we like to call a double standard.

> >

> > Not really, the standard is that if you're going to harass pugs for not using the gear you think they should use because you're running a third party program to spy on them then you should just find like-minded individuals to play with, same as if you don't use a third party program and you want to find other friendly non-judgmental players to play with. I NEVER said that I think it's ok to harass and kick people for using third party programs either. That would be when I use a double standard.

> >

> > This is why I've joined a friendly guild of players who won't harass one another for not playing the way they want them to play, and not your guild. You don't have to worry about mass kicking players and I don't have to worry about being harassed for not playing a certain way. Win-win. :3

> >

> > Edit for clarification: It's not the third party program I have a problem with, it's the way that some of the people that use these programs treat other players. I couldn't care less if you use macros or third party programs or not as long as you're not harassing others.

>

> TBH, you don't need a third party program to tell someone's playing badly.

> Hey sometimes it's not even the lowest dpser that's the problem. I've had several times that a guy had high dps but lower total damage than the supports because he was **dead all the time**.

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

> > > > >

> > > > > So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

> > > >

> > > > I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

> > > > Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

> > > > Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

> > > > Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

> > >

> > > You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys.

> >

> > It doesnt matter if YOU dont see any harm done by gear checks as you dont own the game. If you go onto someone else's property you agree to abide by their rules.

>

> But then again, by that same standard if Arena Net isn't punishing them, they don't feel he's causing harm? Maybe?

>

 

Limites resources, perhaps stretched to the limit, play a part any time someone is not immediately punished for a violation of local restrictions or ordinance. Getting away with a crime does not mean that it wasnt a crime.

 

That said, if people petitioned ANet to change the policy, and ANet agreed, then it wouldnt be an issue. But as long as dishonest people choose to go onto someone else's property and flaunt the owners' set rules there will be a drain on resources.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Look at all the people complaining about how others play the game - including those who don't want others using DPS meters.

 

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > > > @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > > > @"Kako.1930" said:

> > > > > This is why guilds are so great. :3 You can join up with friends who think alike and not have to worry about toxic elitists.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, if only the macro wielding jagoffs would team up to program their brains out together and leave the rest of the community alone as well, that would be great. XD

> > > >

> > > > If you were in my guild I'd kick you for that kind of talk tbh. It's equally as toxic to expect other people not to play with who they want to, but think you are allowed to.

> > > >

> > > > This is what we like to call a double standard.

> > >

> > > Not really, the standard is that if you're going to harass pugs for not using the gear you think they should use because you're running a third party program to spy on them then you should just find like-minded individuals to play with, same as if you don't use a third party program and you want to find other friendly non-judgmental players to play with. I NEVER said that I think it's ok to harass and kick people for using third party programs either. That would be when I use a double standard.

> > >

> > > This is why I've joined a friendly guild of players who won't harass one another for not playing the way they want them to play, and not your guild. You don't have to worry about mass kicking players and I don't have to worry about being harassed for not playing a certain way. Win-win. :3

> > >

> > > Edit for clarification: It's not the third party program I have a problem with, it's the way that some of the people that use these programs treat other players. I couldn't care less if you use macros or third party programs or not as long as you're not harassing others.

> >

> > TBH, you don't need a third party program to tell someone's playing badly.

> > Hey sometimes it's not even the lowest dpser that's the problem. I've had several times that a guy had high dps but lower total damage than the supports because he was **dead all the time**.

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > > > I have raided with same people for couple weeks/months, i knew some that used those "add-ons", reported them - no action from customer support side. S

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So you don't really care, because you keep playing with them. Why did you report them then, just to cause harm to other players?

> > > > >

> > > > > I kept raiding with them because i wanted to see if something is done if person is indeed using gear checker and gets reported. As expected: nothing.

> > > > > Cause them harm? Those people are using add-ons that are not allowed in game. Who is causing harm here?

> > > > > Am i also "causing harm" because i report hackers and cheaters? Nice logic you got there.

> > > > > Why not just allow all cheats and ban players that don't use them, eh? I mean normal players "cause harm" now apparently.

> > > >

> > > > You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys.

> > >

> > > It doesnt matter if YOU dont see any harm done by gear checks as you dont own the game. If you go onto someone else's property you agree to abide by their rules.

> >

> > But then again, by that same standard if Arena Net isn't punishing them, they don't feel he's causing harm? Maybe?

> >

>

> Limites resources, perhaps stretched to the limit, play a part any time someone is not immediately punished for a violation of local restrictions or ordinance. Getting away with a crime does not mean that it wasnt a crime.

>

> That said, if people petitioned ANet to change the policy, and ANet agreed, then it wouldnt be an issue. But as long as dishonest people choose to go onto someone else's property and flaunt the owners' set rules there will be a drain on resources.

 

Or maybe, because they don't deem it a Urgent problem (the gear check at least) they don't waste resources enforcing that policy, until other problems ensue. Pretty much what was happening with DPS meters. They were illegal for a long time, and a lot of people still used it without consequence, because it wasn't really affecting other people.

When they started getting a bit too abusive, then they started having to intervene and established proper policies about what's allowed and what isn't in DPS meters.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> That said, if people petitioned ANet to change the policy, and ANet agreed, then it wouldnt be an issue. But as long as dishonest people choose to go onto someone else's property and flaunt the owners' set rules there will be a drain on resources.

 

You keep saying that but cannot give one example of how a gear check tool causes harm to other players. It simply doesn't. Anet has a problem with 3rd party tools in general, not because a gear check tool would cause any harm. They are tolerating dps meters now, because those do no harm either. It won't take long and gear check tools will be tolerated too.

[Deimos.4263]

These meters are fine. But they need a 3rd party politeness meter too. Someone having low DPS or the wrong gear? The team either picks up the slack or it doesn't. But a lousy attitude? That kills the team effort.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"WARIORSCHARGEING.2637" said:

> another reason why it is so many left the game and only play the game these days from time to time . after anet said ok to DPS METERS well that was when the salt gates opened and never will be shut again . anet loves having lots of salt in this game !! as well as other things in this game that came with these DPS meters !! it also brought a lot of wow players to this game as well too.

>

> which i can understand why that is but the toxics that came with them .well that damaged the game even more with anet saying its all ok !!

 

This is just sour grapes ... you or anyone else have no idea how many people left the game, no less who left because of this particular thing. No one just started playing GW2 because of the ability to run a DPS meter. That's silly.

[Dreamwolf.7423]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Dreamwolf.7423" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > I'm sorry that the OP had some bad experiences, but I don't think the conclusions offered are supported by the evidence presented.

> > >

> > > As @"Ashen.2907" wrote:

> > > > If people are being offensive before the group does anything then a DPS meter is not the issue.

> > >

> > > > @"Dreamwolf.7423" said:

> > > > However, there are some that thinks this makes it ok for them to join a group and immediately start flaming party members for not running meta classes, meta builds, etc. Never mind that the group hadn't even actually started doing anything yet.

> > >

> > > ANet doesn't think it's okay for anyone to flame anyone else, regardless of the rationale.

> > >

> > > > I actually got kicked from one group because I changed out a weapon for a fight. No warning, just booted.

> > > If no one actually told you why you were /kicked, it's hard to know if it happened because you were swapping a weapon or that just happened to be coincidental timing, especially if there was some whispered discussion prior to the kick.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > They asked if I was running Greatsword, and I said, "yes, I just swapped to it." Then I was kicked.

> What class were you running?

>

 

I only play Mesmer in Fractals as I don't have any other class with enough AR.

 

Also, to address another post, there were no requirement on weapons/gear/skills/etc. Nothing was said at all until I switched for 1 fight that we had continuously wiped on. It was clearly not a fight where melee was working out, so I put on something that gave me range. After yet another wipe. I was asked and then kicked.