World Restructuring

[Molesworth.1684]

I have a bad feeling about this. It seems to follow Anet's recent trend of discriminating against the casual player, as raids do in pve. I am a keen and frequent wvw player but I don't belong to a wvw guild, and no longer want to. Many wvw guilds quite justifiably have a requirement to raid on certain days and at certain times, which I don't want to be tied to. As a pug, I can log in when I want and either roam or zerg as I choose. I don't want to endure training days and be criticised for my build. It's a game, not the army. I have a feeling this will result in my being thrown in the 'odds and ends bin' with all the rest of those without guilds, while the elite players group together on certain 'worlds'. Also, the loss of servers with longstanding identities makes the new system sound like a glorified EOTM. After 5 years of enjoying GW2, I fear this might finally make me quit. I would definitely prefer to carry on with the current system, imperfect tho it is.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Arbriel.4397" said:

> How will this new change affect my choice of playing GW2. For instance I don't only play WvW but I also play with other friends from across other worlds, with that gone how will I be able to play with them outside of WvW? And are we only getting to choose ONE guild or will we still have 5, but 1 can be a WvW guild?

 

Nothing change for pve, you don't have to designate any wvw guilds if you are just playing pve.

[Rampage.7145]

> @"Blaeys.3102" said:

> If they had implemented this on day one, I could see it working. But, after five years, many people have developed multiple ties to different communities on their server. It isn't uncommon for someone to WvW with one guild on Monday and one with a different playstyle on Tuesday.

>

> Under the proposed system, that will be pretty much gone for all practical purposes. Because of alliance limits, most harder core wvw guilds will be very picky about who is (and who isn't) in their alliance. The people running the alliance will have no choice but to look for the most competitive guilds to group with - regardless of how tight their current communities are. The players that join them for a night or two - and then run with more casual groups later in the week (and there are a lot more of these kinds of wvwers than you might think) - will now be forced to either make a larger commitment to WvW or risk missing out entirely.

>

> In the past five years, servers have banded together. They have bought expensive teamspeak servers and websites. They have set up fun little theme nights for less hardcore players. They have built ties based around things other than how good a player someone is.

>

> The proposed alliance system will harm that. Again, if it had been like this from day one, it wouldn't be an issue. But asking this of the community five years in makes me think that Anet has grown out of touch with the real in-game communities (which aren't really represented here on the wvw forums, btw).

 

Sorry but i think as you can read on the comments, the vast majority of players are very greatfull for this, only one out of touch is you if you think server comunities mean anything anymore to the vast mojority of players, sure it mean something for some people but most poeple (vast majority) just wanna log in have fun with their friends we dont really care about virtual chatrooms with random people (pretty much what server are nowdays), if you enjoy playing with people i think you will have plenty of time to organize those people into a big alliance and keep enjoying the game together.

If you in the other hand just wanna be a hardcore player you can join a hardcore WvW guild, if you just wanna leech kills from a WvW guild tho well u havea choice of joining them or just do you own thing.

As a long time WvW commander (maguuma since day 1) and guild leader i can tell you this is hands down the best change ever happened to this game, WvW is mean to be done with 3 teams engaging each other constantly, the server system does not allow that to happen consistently and it has always been been flawed since day 1 they are finally willing to fix 5 years later and we (vast majority of players) thank arenanet for it.

If you are attached to some virtual server just let me tell you something, granted u are not friends with every single person that plays in your server this system allows to to actually filter people u dont like or want to play with, if after this u still think servers mean something u should just go out more, spend some quality time with friends.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"BlazeQ.1095" said:

> So the NA servers have very few guild that run in certain time zones. For example the "OCX" time zones. What is there to prevent the OCX guilds from creating an alliance that puts the majority of them on a single server eliminating any chance of coverage balance?

 

Good point, reposted for awareness.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

LOL, wow. And here I thought WvW couldn't be damaged more than it was by Megaservers. If this isn't the definition of lipstick on a pig, then I don't know what is. I get it, your hearts are in the right place, but this is going to make WvW a completely toxic excrement show, and this system will DEFINITELY be gamed from day one.

 

Quick break down: starting as of right now, there are talks no doubt between the largest and most avid (and "elite") WvW guild leaders agreeing to ally. Seriously. Its happening in anticipation of this. This is going to further breed the "my way or the highway" among those guilds. Now sure, those of us that don't ascribe to that can just deal with getting bounced around to where ever and with whomever for these match ups, but ultimately why should we care?

 

Literally nothing in this system is about being a part of a steady community. "oh boy, I have pride in my Pink Shoopuffs team for the next 2 months, then boom, guess I'm now on team Grumble Bear. Woohoo." It doesn't matter. In fact it will matter even less after this change. This game was already anti-small guilds and now this will kill them even more.

 

Why is that? Simple, a small guild has no hope of being as effective as a larger guild in WvW as it is with the changes you've made to guilds and now only large WvW guilds will be desirable for alliances to ensure proper map coverage and play.

 

Its bad enough now that I exclusively roam by myself most days because my server was gutted by the megaservers and our pairings already shift on reg to the point that I have almost no one that I know in WvW anymore, and now I have to hope some algorithm might place me on the same team as the people I at least still share a server with currently.

 

SMH. I guess I'll just stick to occasional veteran creature killing and a random dolyak or camp snipe. Yay...

[Aeolus.3615]

Maps will stay the same?

can aliances ktrain farm each other by mutual agreedment?? LOL

[Garfried.7295]

Many things already have been said, both in favor of the new system as well as arguments against it. A big concern for some is that existing communities will be lost and that casual or newer players will be alienated from the more hardcore playerbase.

 

To counter this, i would say that especially for these people, there will be many new opportunities. A large pvx guild with players spread over all servers can now enter as one larger group, which has been a wish from many of these guilds for a long time. New players are incentivized to join newbie-friendly guilds that have more experienced leadership that can show them the way. Where older communities once were, new ones will grow.

 

To me, the most important thing is that in the end, people want something to fight for. With a more balanced matchmaking, maybe we can see some of that competitiveness that was in this gamemode return.

 

 

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> Lot of guilds have people that don't play WvW, forcing us to kick them out would be lame as hell.

 

In one of the earlier posts, a dev responded that only members that have marked the guild as their WvW guild will count for that guild. You won't need to kick anyone.

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Tibicia.8315" said:

> My server is my guild.

 

So all you would need to do is formalize the relationship by creating a server guild or alliance.

[erKo.9586]

I just returned to the game, and funny to see that big changes still happens to WvW, this will be interesting :) !

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > @"BlazeQ.1095" said:

> > So the NA servers have very few guild that run in certain time zones. For example the "OCX" time zones. What is there to prevent the OCX guilds from creating an alliance that puts the majority of them on a single server eliminating any chance of coverage balance?

>

> Good point, reposted for awareness.

And I believe the answer is... "absolutely nothing" because if Anet are gonna do something about that, they'll have to start splitting up guilds and handpicking people from them to put on other worlds.

 

Which would be a horrible practice.

 

This really apply to any timezone though. I can imagine the same issue with nights and early mornings in the EU. It's up to players themselves not to do that but when you can do that... you know. It's like handing a kitten to someone and tell them at no time to touch it or even look at it.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Garfried.7295" said:

(...)

> To me, the most important thing is that in the end, people want something to fight for. With a more balanced matchmaking, maybe we can see some of that competitiveness that was in this gamemode return.

>

>

Some want a more balanced matchmaking, ALOTjust want to ktrain, reason when some server manage to get populatio th eother server instead of fight bail out or try to farm some empty BL.

 

Current maps will be a issue... to many structures.

 

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Molesworth.1684" said:

> I have a bad feeling about this. It seems to follow Anet's recent trend of discriminating against the casual player, as raids do in pve. I am a keen and frequent wvw player but I don't belong to a wvw guild, and no longer want to. Many wvw guilds quite justifiably have a requirement to raid on certain days and at certain times, which I don't want to be tied to. As a pug, I can log in when I want and either roam or zerg as I choose. I don't want to endure training days and be criticised for my build. It's a game, not the army. I have a feeling this will result in my being thrown in the 'odds and ends bin' with all the rest of those without guilds, while the elite players group together on certain 'worlds'. Also, the loss of servers with longstanding identities makes the new system sound like a glorified EOTM. After 5 years of enjoying GW2, I fear this might finally make me quit. I would definitely prefer to carry on with the current system, imperfect tho it is.

 

The great thing about the guild system is that you can create any sort of guild and populate it with like-minded players. There is no requirement to join another's guild with restrictions you don't like.

[Dayra.7405]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > @"BlazeQ.1095" said:

> > So the NA servers have very few guild that run in certain time zones. For example the "OCX" time zones. What is there to prevent the OCX guilds from creating an alliance that puts the majority of them on a single server eliminating any chance of coverage balance?

>

> Good point, reposted for awareness.

 

Every time zone is only a small portion of a day, so they dominate this timezone and loose all others? In the end this looks like a bad deal to me: No opponents to fight, and no coverage to win.

[Threather.9354]

This is pretty cool change. Looking forward to it.

 

People qqing about maxing their guilds/having to join a guild:

- Guilds are pretty cool, barely any guilds have any rules now. You can just gather 20 roamers and never talk to each other (actually lot of talk in guilds go through whispers).

- Merging guilds is a possibility while staying in old one. You just get invited to one as extra member and you mute the chat in chat or something. If you have 5 terrible small guilds with no space still, well just leave one. Emotional attachment to ingame random 5th most important guild for you shouldn't really hurt that much. Even if it is fully upgraded, you can just join another guild for transfer while your reliable friend takes care of your ex guild and then promotes you to leader again. (Its hard to believe you would be leader in 5 guilds that are fully upgraded with no reliable friends/officers)

 

Overall alliances seem pretty okay. Little worried about what kind of security is there against the alliance leader doing something like setting it as "spanish eu server" 30 min before it gets locked and joins another alliance.

 

Anyways, new communities are cool and forcing people to form guilds might actually provide the change we need.

 

**Guild wars 2** where guilds create alliance and battle against other alliances, strongest shall prevail

**Guild wars 2** the paradise where your friends shall stay together against the tides of time

**Guild wars 2** where Devs shall make the changes that make the dreams come true

[Ney Matogrosso.5736]

This is a great change, but a body block system should be something amazing, this change more the WvW than anything else (but I really don't know how difficult is to do this). Other think WvW must change is the rewards, the battles has not impact in the World, it must change in some way like Factions from GW1 did or the Node Wars from BDO. Anyway it is good news...

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > @"BlazeQ.1095" said:

> > > So the NA servers have very few guild that run in certain time zones. For example the "OCX" time zones. What is there to prevent the OCX guilds from creating an alliance that puts the majority of them on a single server eliminating any chance of coverage balance?

> >

> > Good point, reposted for awareness.

>

> Every time zone is only a small portion of a day, so they dominate this timezone and loose all others? In the end this looks like a bad deal to me: No opponents to fight, and no coverage to win.

 

just to add 'world creation: at the start of every season our new World Restructuring system will use recent statistics, based on similar predicted participation, skill, and coverage, to create worlds filled with alliances, guilds, and unaffiliated players.' This would suggest that if a alliance of OCX guilds was to be made, then the system would not put many players that play OCX times on the same world.. thats what i think it would do, same goes with NA and the others.

[Grim West.3194]

> @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

> > @"Phlogistn.7893" said:

> > It also raises the issue of: does total guild member count towards how much "space" a guild takes up in an Alliance? What if a guild is 100+ people but has an active wvw of 25? Are they counted as 100? Will they have to kick friends/retires/folks on break just to meet the threshold to join their alliance? If only the active folks count, what stops BG or any other server from having people go "dead" for a while before relink, stack an alliance, then exceed the limit?

>

> Only people who mark the guild as their wvw guild will count. Guilds that specialize can still band together in an alliance if they so choose. We started this dialogue early so we could hear feedback and work to improve the design where possible.

 

Minor detail but please create a column in the guild panel that indicates who has declared for WvW.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > @"BlazeQ.1095" said:

> > > > So the NA servers have very few guild that run in certain time zones. For example the "OCX" time zones. What is there to prevent the OCX guilds from creating an alliance that puts the majority of them on a single server eliminating any chance of coverage balance?

> > >

> > > Good point, reposted for awareness.

> >

> > Every time zone is only a small portion of a day, so they dominate this timezone and loose all others? In the end this looks like a bad deal to me: No opponents to fight, and no coverage to win.

>

> just to add 'world creation: at the start of every season our new World Restructuring system will use recent statistics, based on similar predicted participation, skill, and coverage, to create worlds filled with alliances, guilds, and unaffiliated players.' This would suggest that if a alliance of OCX guilds was to be made, then the system would not put many players that play OCX times on the same world.. thats what i think it would do, same goes with NA and the others.

If it's one alliance of OCX guilds it's gonna be on the same world. That's sort of the point. Pugs aint gonna weigh up for guilds. The only way to balance it is obviously going to be 2 or more such alliances so they can be put in conflict. Or speculate that 1 alliance = X amount of pugs. Gonna be some pretty hard math.

 

[Rampage.7145]

> @"Grim West.3194" said:

> As long as they keep alliances from being too large this could work.

>

> Otherwise, large alliances will just become the new BG.

 

As you can see on the graph many many people will be part of a WvW server multiple alliances, guilds with no alliances and regular non guilded players, so no matter how strong your alliance is it can always be countered by dumbing down the rest of the people that will be playing along side with them during the "matchup". so no alliance should be big enough to steamroll everybody since alliance =/= servers; alliances are part of a server multiple alliances even. This system prevents stacking from happening unless somehow arenanet is stupid enough to put all the strongest WvW alliances on the same server.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > > @"BlazeQ.1095" said:

> > > > > So the NA servers have very few guild that run in certain time zones. For example the "OCX" time zones. What is there to prevent the OCX guilds from creating an alliance that puts the majority of them on a single server eliminating any chance of coverage balance?

> > > >

> > > > Good point, reposted for awareness.

> > >

> > > Every time zone is only a small portion of a day, so they dominate this timezone and loose all others? In the end this looks like a bad deal to me: No opponents to fight, and no coverage to win.

> >

> > just to add 'world creation: at the start of every season our new World Restructuring system will use recent statistics, based on similar predicted participation, skill, and coverage, to create worlds filled with alliances, guilds, and unaffiliated players.' This would suggest that if a alliance of OCX guilds was to be made, then the system would not put many players that play OCX times on the same world.. thats what i think it would do, same goes with NA and the others.

> If it's one alliance of OCX guilds it's gonna be on the same world. That's sort of the point. Pugs aint gonna weigh up for guilds. The only way to balance it is obviously going to be 2 or more such alliances so they can be put in conflict. Or speculate that 1 alliance = X amount of pugs. Gonna be some pretty hard math.

>

> And even if people think it's a "bad deal", other people have been doing this for 5 years, lol.

 

Yes, what im trying to say is that the OCX alliance would be put on a world, then it would make another world with other OCX guilds for them to fight.. Idk its way too early to know for sure, but it's a step in the right direction :)

[FireFix.2649]

It is finally happening! I am so exited. I believe that this will be awesome!!!

[Phil.7369]

Beatiful change, good job.

But you should consider a few things, like popular worlds and dead worlds. Otherwise the same issues will arise again.

 

So, what happens for example if Blackgate remains Blackgate-S1 = top server due to its fame and then Blackgate-S2 is then again the top and most populated server, obviously thanks to it's renown. You are basically, again, creating a loop where the experienced and knowledgable players pick out their favorite servers after the 8 weeks period and again create power and population differences. It is guaranteed to happen, the same servers after each 8-week reset, again and again being the top and the typical dead/empty servers where some unfortunate new WVW players happen to land on.

 

Have you considered how to counter this? Perhaps by renaming the servers after each reset? In that case no one can possibly know which server is now the old Blackgate or the old Fort Aspenwood and hence no cherry-picking servers or no alliance-dominated servers, where you can't possibly join in, unless you are part of the alliance. Yes, what you thought that wouldn't happen?

Always plan ahead.

 

Second possible solution, remove a number of servers from the game and "squeeze" the Contintent's populations in a specified number of servers. Obviously account for new players by leaving room in the existing servers.

Basically, instead of having say 10 servers:

3 with 90% capacity

2 with 80% capacity

3 with 50% capacity

2 with 15% capacity

 

and suffering from unbalance, power issues and dead servers... you could instead leave 6 servers with a population percentage of say 80%+ in each server. Obviously the 6 servers in this example will never achieve perfectly similar populations, with the majority spiking towards the top 2 or 3, but it will serve as a better solution to servers who have absolutely no hope of ever facing a superior (in terms of rankings) server.

You have seen what happened throughout all these years Anet. It's always been Blackgate, Blackgate, Blackgate. It hasn't changed and if you don't adapt there will then be a new "hot" server who will dominate again and again after every single 2-month reset.

 

I hope this helps, keep making this the best MMO in existence thanks!

[fehyra.2764]

I don't know if it was posted, but could implementation of voice chat (with channels say, map, team, squad, guild and party) _in game_ solve discord and teamspeak issues? It would even incentivise more grouping and more people actually being on group's voice channel.

[Swamurabi.7890]

> @"MaLeVoLenT.8129" said:

> > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > @"Drinks.2361" said:

> > > > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > > > @"Drinks.2361" said:

> > > > > So there is a pile of people in this thread worrying about "top tier alliances", why do you even think there will be anything like tiers? We'll just get a matchup & that's it, there will be no relationship between the different matchups & the sides will be shuffled before the next match starts.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So many people that have left for other games are excited for this, there are piles of games out there that have slightly different versions of open world PvE & raids but WvW really sets this game apart. Hopefully we'll see enough support to make a real competitive scene out of it.

> > > >

> > > > You will see 4 timezone alliances compete for the top tier with 3 timezone alliances being in the next tier on down to one timezone alliances in the bottom tier.

> > > >

> > > > The good thing is that unlike servers being locked, alliances will have the opportunity to recruit to fill their coverage gaps.

> > > > The other good thing is that the players that do return won't overstack an already overstacked side.

> > > >

> > > > The bad is that the alliance might have to kick some guilds out to make room for the new recruits to fill coverage gaps.

> > > > The other bad is that there will probably still be matches, particularly in lower tiers, where alliances have little or no coverage and can't get players to fill the gaps.

> > >

> > > I think you're greatly overestimating the size of each alliance relative to the overall 8 week world. There is no reason for Anet to allow Alliances to be so large that they can manipulate the matchups

> >

> > I'm sure Mal is already hard at work creating a 4 timezone 500 player guild.

>

> Even if I were, It wouldn't be nearly as effective as some are making this out to be. Which is the point behind introducing a system of this nature. It prevents the super stacking of any world. Now you can super stack an alliance sure. But that alliance only would equate for a very small portion of the server even if the alliance size were to be 1k. That 1k sized *stacked* alliance wouldn't be able to decide what other players and or alliances it gets paired with. defeating the purpose of even attempting to have full 24/7 time zone coverage within an alliance.

>

> Instead what *Mal* is thinking is having an healthy alliance environment that doesnt necessarily focus on having all 4 timezones. But instead one that allows for my friends and player base to have activity when they specifically play. You see with alliances, someone like me doesn't have to worry about making an entire server healthy anymore because the system will make worlds every 8 weeks for me.

 

3rd person reference. You really need to get some help.