Idea: Marionette fractal

[Skill.3260]

IDEA:

A boss fractal that divide players into their own arena. Each arena would have an enemy as well as a Power Regulator, covered by a force field.

https://i.imgur.com/RqPzGvx.png

 

Mechanic:

Players would have to solo the enemy in their arena in order to access the Power Regulator.

The power regulators would need to be overcharged in some way, which would break the chains of Marionette.

After overcharging the regulators a fifth time, all chains would been broken and fractal ends.

 

Reward-Idea:

Fragments for the lockboxes that are in Scarlet's Secret Lair.

[TexZero.7910]

As much as i want a marionette fractal i doubt they will go the route of forcing solo play in group content.

[Skill.3260]

What if the party would be teleported to another platform after clearing each one?.. And one power regulator being for each chain?

[npmis.7860]

A group of unknown adventures found a secret hideout of scarlet. After overcoming several traps and security systems they discover the prototype of the Marionette and fight it. They manage to destroy the prototype, but are forced to retreat by Scarlets poison gas and attacks from Scarlets security system. It ends after reaching the emergency extraction rift at a cliff porting everyone into the reward room, which is a small skybox seen in Shattered Observatorium.

CM: Scarlet actively uses her security system to kill the intruders whenever possible.

This would make it possible to include some mechanics of the Marionette without forcing solo-play into group content.

[Sublimatio.6981]

i like soloing so i very much like the idea, but you would need a system that makes you join other players as soon as you're finished with your platform

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

No this is a great idea. It also encourages the idea of playing builds that aren't the usual raid subgroup builds that rely on some druid to heal bot them. This is the kind of content we need more of.

 

Upon that, the marionette was just awesome and I'd like to be able to replay that content in a difficult manner. I'd like to see a challenging CM come with this.

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> No this is a great idea. It also encourages the idea of playing builds that aren't the usual raid subgroup builds that rely on some druid to heal bot them.

i don't know if you realize but you don't need healbots in fractals, since there isn't any ticking unavoidable damage. you can dodge everything yourself and use your own healing skill. the only reason why people are playing healing druids is because they are lazy and generally bad and in need of carry.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

You're absolutely right. You don't need heal bots in fractals. In fact, I have a thread going with 8.5k views discussing that very same idea. But 90% of these new school fractal raid meta kids really are so bad that if they don't have a heal druid, they're dead constantly.

 

My statement that you quoted, was simply to point out that content such as the marionette would make players HAVE TO lean away from the heal druid rather than leaning on it.

 

[Linken.6345]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> You're absolutely right. You don't need heal bots in fractals. In fact, I have a thread going with 8.5k views discussing that very same idea. But 90% of these new school fractal raid meta kids really are so bad that if they don't have a heal druid, they're dead constantly.

>

> My statement that you quoted, was simply to point out that content such as the marionette would make players HAVE TO lean away from the heal druid rather than leaning on it.

>

Not really since its a fractal you can go 5 heal druid and still do all the solo platforms

 

[Aenesthesia.1697]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> No this is a great idea. It also encourages the idea of playing builds that aren't the usual raid subgroup builds that rely on some druid to heal bot them. This is the kind of content we need more of.

>

> Upon that, the marionette was just awesome and I'd like to be able to replay that content in a difficult manner. I'd like to see a challenging CM come with this.

 

yes, once we have forced people to gear their healbot, let's make it obsolete so they can chew on their recently acquired equipment (in my case, i haven't even finished equipping him)

[CptAurellian.9537]

Ladies, could you maybe stop dragging these discussions into ridiculous territory as soon as healers/druids are mentioned? There's more than black and white and it's becoming annoying when you do that in what feels like every single thread.

 

As far as the original topic is concerned, personally I'm not a fan of a marionette fractal, since I passionately hate(d) Unliving Story S1, but it would probably be interesting for those who either liked or simply never experienced it. If it's ever introduced, I'm definitely on the side of those who have already stated that forcing solo in group content is a bad idea. Let the group move as one and introduce some changes compared to the original encounter, since doing the same thing five times isn't fun.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> You're absolutely right. You don't need heal bots in fractals. In fact, I have a thread going with 8.5k views discussing that very same idea. But 90% of these new school fractal raid meta kids really are so bad that if they don't have a heal druid, they're dead constantly.

 

You somehow realized that most of the players you are discussing with in your thread are veterans, do you? And it turned out that many of them have finished more fractals than you have, right?

**Those are not pro healer, they are pro meta** and if the healer would disappear from the meta nobody in this thread would even mention it or complain about the lack of a healing source. That's what was going on in the thread. Don't mix things up to your special favour. ^^

 

And druid is mainly not played because of the healing but because of spirit buffs, constant 25 stacks might and the healing.

It's correct that in T4 are a lot of "not so good" players but even the best run meta due to a reason. And since it's also easier for pugs to take a healer with them there is no reasonable motive to not take one if you make things harder - or let's say more skillful - without it. And we are speaking of a daily farm routine since years (T4s - not CMs) not a new challenging invention where it matters.

 

On topic:

Since it's five women/men content I'm against solo platforms because it negotiates the aspect of the team spirit. I would rather have 5 different encounters for the group but then it's not very different from Nightmare or Shattered Observatory that are only boss fractals and only differ in the theme and boss mechanics. 5 different puzzles are also not my thing. Have a look at Thaumanova a very boring fractal in my opinion

[Grogba.6204]

Why not the Aquatic/Underground approach? You fight through a lane and the boss fight consists of three out of the five platforms, randomized each time you visit the fractal with some drama/reason inbetween.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > You're absolutely right. You don't need heal bots in fractals. In fact, I have a thread going with 8.5k views discussing that very same idea. But 90% of these new school fractal raid meta kids really are so bad that if they don't have a heal druid, they're dead constantly.

>

> You somehow realized that most of the players you are discussing with in your thread are veterans, do you? And it turned out that many of them have finished more fractals than you have, right?

> **Those are not pro healer, they are pro meta** and if the healer would disappear from the meta nobody in this thread would even mention it or complain about the lack of a healing source. That's what was going on in the thread. Don't mix things up to your special favour. ^^

>

> And druid is mainly not played because of the healing but because of spirit buffs, constant 25 stacks might and the healing.

> It's correct that in T4 are a lot of "not so good" players but even the best run meta due to a reason. And since it's also easier for pugs to take a healer with them there is no reasonable motive to not take one if you make things harder - or let's say more skillful - without it. And we are speaking of a daily farm routine since years (T4s - not CMs) not a new challenging invention where it matters.

>

> On topic:

> Since it's five women/men content I'm against solo platforms because it negotiates the aspect of the team spirit. I would rather have 5 different encounters for the group but then it's not very different from Nightmare or Shattered Observatory that are only boss fractals and only differ in the theme and boss mechanics. 5 different puzzles are also not my thing. Have a look at Thaumanova a very boring fractal in my opinion

 

1. I didn't mention anything about veterans or the skill level of anyone in the 2 posts that I left in this thread.

2. I have over 25,000 APs, legendary fractal wings, infinite omni mist potion, fractal savant title and have completed nearly a dozen full ascended setups from running fractals alone. Needless to say, if there were players who have ran fractals more than I have, It would probably encompass less than 5% of active fractal players who have ever existed at all. Thanks for the assumption though.

3. Bro, all I said was that content steering people away from druid heal leaning, would be cool. Not sure where the fuel for your druid support rant is coming from. I main druid in all game modes, so calm down.

4. Five people separating to different platforms to engage different styled bosses is still a team effort, in the same way that Auric Basin N,S,E,W separation is still a team effort on the part of everyone participating. What it sounds like you're trying to say is that: "You don't want situations where your raid meta character is separated from all the other raid metas that he requires around him to do his job". Learn to play something different man. So many threads about "wanting more class diversity" and "more game modes in general" or "more different types of content". Then there pops up a truly valid reason to implement this kind of stuff and then people start posting how they want things to remain the same and never change.

 

I don't know man. I like it when they add new types of interesting content that requires me to use different types of builds to complete the content. Feels good to have reason to play the full parameters of a classes capabilities rather than the same 1 spec all the time.

[Skill.3260]

Not that I have anything against @Trevor Boyer.6524, but you didn't have to point out how much AP you had when all fractal achievements only give around 400-500AP. Next thing.. try and stay on topic and do remember that this is a discussion, there are people that will agree and disagree with your ideas.

 

Questions to help you stay on topic..

Would you want to have Marionette as a fractal?.. Why? Why not?

Would you want it to be done in a group or solo?.. Maybe a bit of both?

Should this have a CM?.. What could that CM be?

(Feel free to write down more questions to help people stay on topic as we continue this discussion)

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> **Those are not pro healer, they are pro meta**

> And druid is mainly not played because of the healing but because of spirit buffs, constant 25 stacks might and the healing.

 

But healing druid is not meta. Power druid is. You get strength duration from fractal potion and strength runes, also Spellbreaker can take PS and help stack might with the tethered thingy (i dont know the trait name) which allows druid to take scholar runes. Also I don't play these classes so i don't know exactly when you would need strength runes and when you can take scholar, but im sure power druid mains would tell you. Also they still do some healing except it's just the right amount and not the overkill you're used to get.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

 

> 1. I didn't mention anything about veterans or the skill level of anyone in the 2 posts that I left in this thread.

 

> But 90% of these new school fractal raid meta kids

You mentioned these and they are an absolute minority, ingame and in your thread:

 

> 2. I have over 25,000 APs, legendary fractal wings, infinite omni mist potion, fractal savant title and have completed nearly a dozen full ascended setups from running fractals alone. Needless to say, if there were players who have ran fractals more than I have, It would probably encompass less than 5% of active fractal players who have ever existed at all. Thanks for the assumption though.

 

Doesn't matter at all. I think you're relatively new to the dungeon forum section. There are only a few new or inexperienced players around. The overall majority in this forum section are hardcore veterans. Most of them on the top of the player pyramid. You have a wrong picture of yourself within the fractal community. 25k AP means nothing because it's just grinding APs, almost all of them (24,5k) outside of fractals as Skill already wrote in his post, a lot of players have the legendary fractal backpack. Furthermore infinite omni mist potion is a standard thing in T4 nowadays. Fractal Savant only the entry step, I see Prodigies, Champions regularly and also a God appears from time to time. I mean, I had a break of around 6 months and 2 others of a shorter period and I am far ahead of you in terms of that.

 

> 3. Bro, all I said was that content steering people away from druid heal leaning, would be cool. Not sure where the fuel for your druid support rant is coming from. I main druid in all game modes, so calm down.

 

Where's my rant. I was just correcting your false allegations.

 

> 4. Five people separating to different platforms to engage different styled bosses is still a team effort, in the same way that Auric Basin N,S,E,W separation is still a team effort on the part of everyone participating. What it sounds like you're trying to say is that: "You don't want situations where your raid meta character is separated from all the other raid metas that he requires around him to do his job". **Learn to play something different man.** So many threads about "wanting more class diversity" and "more game modes in general" or "more different types of content". Then there pops up a truly valid reason to implement this kind of stuff and then people start posting how they want things to remain the same and never change.

 

You are the one who is ranting and attacking me. I don't need to "learn to play something different man". I already soloed and duoed enough fractal encounters in this game and I do so if I'm in the mood but don't want to be forced to or rely on others so heavily when it comes to a situation where the group needs to succeed but can't because 1 player isn't able to get a solo boss down. No matter what build/gear/mastery he is using.

You are the one who is advocating "PHIW". A boss like described above will result in more "elitism" because people expect you to be successful in the first try.

Just as food for thought: You remember Arah P4, Ghasem, High Priest of Grenth? This boss is a cheap model of the above mentioned marionette scenario and it worked very horribly for most of the (inexperienced players) - even with explanations!

 

> I don't know man. I like it when they add new types of interesting content that requires me to use different types of builds to complete the content. Feels good to have reason to play the full parameters of a classes capabilities rather than the same 1 spec all the time.

 

Interesting content is interesting but it also needs to be realistic. That's all I'm saying.

 

> @"Sublimatio.6981" said:

 

> But healing druid is not meta. Power druid is. You get strength duration from fractal potion and strength runes, also Spellbreaker can take PS and help stack might with the tethered thingy (i dont know the trait name) which allows druid to take scholar runes. Also I don't play these classes so i don't know exactly when you would need strength runes and when you can take scholar, but im sure power druid mains would tell you. Also they still do some healing except it's just the right amount and not the overkill you're used to get.

 

Yeah, for speed runs and maybe fully organized groups. Since we are talking about pugs and the path of the least resistance it's the more defensive version. I know you think you are carrying a "lazy player", namely the healing druid, through your pug runs, that's why you're biased. But the usual group doesn't care at all as long as the druid provides everything they want because they won't phase (CM) bosses so much faster with the power variant. I see it every day when the breakbar is gone and the burst is enough to phase the encounter. There is no need to take a power druid because the dps output already is insane.

The argument "He has to be power otherwise I carry him" is absurd here. And since we're on it, you can always write it in your own lfg but I met you in enough groups now knowing you really don't care at all. ;)

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Skill.3260" said:

> Not that I have anything against @Trevor Boyer.6524, but you didn't have to point out how much AP you had when all fractal achievements only give around 400-500AP. Next thing.. try and stay on topic and do remember that this is a discussion, there are people that will agree and disagree with your ideas.

>

> Questions to help you stay on topic..

> Would you want to have Marionette as a fractal?.. Why? Why not?

> Would you want it to be done in a group or solo?.. Maybe a bit of both?

> Should this have a CM?.. What could that CM be?

> (Feel free to write down more questions to help people stay on topic as we continue this discussion)

 

@"Skill.3260" Already did, read up.

 

@"Vinceman.4572" Hey Vince, "1+1=2" Now let's argue about it.

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

 

> Yeah, for speed runs and maybe fully organized groups. Since we are talking about pugs and the path of the least resistance it's the more defensive version.

We are talking about power druid being meta. Running healing druid a thousand times still won't make it meta. Meta is not decided by what most pugs run everyday. Running healing druid is a suboptimal, safe option. I hope you can see the distinction.

 

PS. It's not that I don't care, I get constantly triggered by the leeching staff autoattackers, I just learned to not flame and 4man the fractal in silence and be done with it for the daily rewards. I come here and on reddit to ~~express my negative feelings. ~~ be toxic.

Btw. I've had pugs who run meta builds (not necessarily comps since I'm necro) and there was no issue with healing and everything died faster than usual. It's really not that difficult.

[zealex.9410]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> As much as i want a marionette fractal i doubt they will go the route of forcing solo play in group content.

 

Yet its something the game could massively benefit from. If not for normal this is a perfect mechanic for a cm.

[zealex.9410]

Id rather have the actual marionette to fight and the split mechanic being one of the fight mechanics. The way i envision this is like the marionettes gets pulled up while drones rush to her to heal her like the opposite with souls on deimos. At that time 3 jump pads apear which 3 playes can take (1 each) and are launched into upper smaller arenas which have a vet mod and a panel. The idea is u defeat the vet u pick up an item that he drops and with it u interuct with the panel bringing down the chain. Bringing down all 3 chains makes the marionetter fall giving u a small dps window.

 

This wouldnt be the only mechanic of the fight and it could also have a time counter in the cm making it a group wipe if ppl fail to kill theirs.

 

There will also be launchpads on the arenas apearing after u kill ur vet and interact with the panel.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Sublimatio.6981" said:

> We are talking about power druid being meta. Running healing druid a thousand times still won't make it meta. Meta is not decided by what most pugs run everyday. Running healing druid is a suboptimal, safe option. I hope you can see the distinction.

>

> PS. It's not that I don't care, I get constantly triggered by the leeching staff autoattackers, I just learned to not flame and 4man the fractal in silence and be done with it for the daily rewards. I come here and on reddit to ~~express my negative feelings. ~~ be toxic.

> Btw. I've had pugs who run meta builds (not necessarily comps since I'm necro) and there was no issue with healing and everything died faster than usual. It's really not that difficult.

 

Pug-Meta is a meta as well. We don't talk about the "most efficient tactics available" for the best of the playerbase because only a few are able to succeed reliably with a power druid. For pugs, the healing druid is the gold standard and their meta way. I agree staff camping druids are the worst but I don't meet those in my daily CM + T4 runs. A lot of them know about weapon swapping, pet management, blasting fire fields and know about the dangerous situations when healing is needed.

If you really want to complain include the dozens of ministrel chronos that are present and easily detectable for everyone at Siax during split (without DPS meter) or the non-might-stacking warriors or weavers, holos and dhs with average or bad rotations. Fact is, and I disagree with you here, the damage of a druid is so insignificant and not worth to be mentioned as an important variable in all the fights.

[Blaeys.3102]

The marionette would be much better as a world event or bounty style encounter. The enjoyable part of that fight came from seeing the open world community come together to tackle the challenge.

 

Still, its been a really long time. I doubt they plan to every revisit it, sadly.

 

Now a Scarlett's Airship fight (the one against the giant hologram) is something I would like to see as a new fractal. It was a shame that fight only existed for a short time.

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Pug-Meta is a meta as well. We don't talk about the "most efficient tactics available" for the best of the playerbase because only a few are able to succeed reliably with a power druid. For pugs, the healing druid is the gold standard and their meta way. I agree staff camping druids are the worst but I don't meet those in my daily CM + T4 runs. A lot of them know about weapon swapping, pet management, blasting fire fields and know about the dangerous situations when healing is needed.

> If you really want to complain include the dozens of ministrel chronos that are present and easily detectable for everyone at Siax during split (without DPS meter) or the non-might-stacking warriors or weavers, holos and dhs with average or bad rotations. Fact is, and I disagree with you here, the damage of a druid is so insignificant and not worth to be mentioned as an important variable in all the fights.

 

META = Most Effective At

Fractal Meta Builds = Most effective builds in fractals.

So yes, meta literally means "most efficient tactics available".

There is no "pug-meta", only "popular choice". During dungeon times stacking hammer guardians wasn't called meta and it was overdone in fractals because of the similar carry of a healing druid.

 

Btw minstrel culprits and underperformers should be equally called out, not just druids. And no, druid damage is not insignificant. If chrono, druid and warrior tryhard collectively it's between around a third to a half of team dps.

[Durzlla.6295]

Personally I think it’d be cool if it worked liked the actual marionette fight did, with the exception of instead of having the lanes you had everyone in the arena surviving the marionette, while one person (who runs through a portal or something) deals with the little mini boss on the platform. Maybe even have a section where you defend the portal from a wave of minions or something.