Can we nerf Hero Challenges in Heart of Thorns already?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"bobsort.4097" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > > There are enough soloable HP’s in HoT to max all skill lines.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I’m not sure what legendary weapons have to do with hero challenges.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just off the top of my head, map completion? For those legendaries?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @"bladezero.9470" said:

> > > > > > > > Nobody cares that you tried to make interesting and challenging content. The jungle was a failure. Just nerf it already.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Either that or give us better pathways to finish legendaries.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The easiest way would be to just get tokens from WvW. Or wait for a train.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In order to do those legendaries, you have to do other group content. I don’t see the point in singling out the HP’s because you need them for map completion towards legendaries when you have to do other group content anyway for them.

> > > > >

> > > > > But you still need them :p and this fella isn't wrong though.

> > > > > **Map completion should never be tied behind a meta**, for solo or time restrained players

> > > >

> > > > Why not?

> > >

> > > Why yes?

> >

> > There's nothing to suggest that it should be one way or the other. However, Anet designed it to specifically be this way.

>

> It should go without saying that it is generally incumbent upon the party pressing for change to establish why the requested change is necessary/desirable. We know the motive: Convenience. But why is it necessary? There is no universal truth of game design that states that personal progression (map completion, in this case) must always be a 100% solo affair.

>

> The issue I have with the proposal is that it would kill one of my favorite activities for the sake of convenience. There are other possible solutions that could give both sides what they want, however. PoF did it by implementing the bounty system (great for people like me who like to solo champs and lead open world squads!) and making the HP challenges veteran only. However, PoF maps don't really have the big map-wide events like HoT does. That conflict would need to be addressed in some way.

>

 

Aren't whales usually solo players? Also, citation needed.

[Galaa.8475]

ditto on the nerfing stuff. im a solo player and no i don't have to "faceroll" it but would like to solo it. or make the hero points scale to the group size. with all of the negative feedback you guys have received about HOT maps. just do something positive in that area. no, i dont need to hear "ive soloed everything in hot on a level one toon bullcrap" either.

[Healix.5819]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> There is no universal truth of game design that states that personal progression (map completion, in this case) must always be a 100% solo affair.

 

Devs can of course do whatever they want to appeal to whichever audience they're shooting for, but personal progression is generally solo content because most people play solo. Requiring group content is however not a problem, but only if a solo player can show up and complete it whenever they want to. If they can't, they only risk losing players, which is why most MMOs tend to make the leveling/story experience jokingly easy solo content so everyone can complete it, whereas group content can be balanced for a group of average players. As for map completion specifically however, there's really no point to it, though GW2 did train people to do it in place of questing. The only problem is that by locking some of it behind group content, they're discouraging all of it. A lot of people tend to focus on 1 character however, so they're more likely to do it once to experience it, but they'll definitely skip it on alts.

 

A problem GW2 has is the fact that maps only fit around 80-100 players, no matter their size, and the megaservers don't actually prioritize filling them, so it can be half that. It would be much better off if zerg content was split from the normal maps and put in their own specific areas. This way, everyone is there to participate, and likewise, you don't have a zerg of AFKers wasting space in the normal maps. Ideally, the open world should scale for 1+, otherwise it's only guaranteed to eventually fail from the majority perspective. Group content on the other hand should be something you can easily queue in to on your own time, which is where the introduction of LFD/LFR in other MMOs saw a huge boost in participation. Imagine for example if you could simply queue up for any world boss at any time, and it were treated like an activity with automated teams and clear goals.

[Cerioth.7062]

> @"Galaa.8475" said:

> ditto on the nerfing stuff. im a solo player and no i don't have to "faceroll" it but would like to solo it. or make the hero points scale to the group size. with all of the negative feedback you guys have received about HOT maps. just do something positive in that area. no, i dont need to hear "ive soloed everything in hot on a level one toon bullcrap" either.

 

Its not bullcrap though.

 

Check out some informative videos on youtube

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIL74CRV-UE

 

 

et cetera.

[Rikis.3984]

> @"bladezero.9470" said:

> I need Gift of Maguuma Mastery

>

> and I play pretty exclusively PvP

>

> I'd just like to finish this garbage while I queue.

 

I'd love to get my legendaries without having to touch sPvP or WvW too, alas, we ask for too much.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Well, i gad to do wvw for my legendary which I didnt want to do but i googled and did it instead of complaining. If you dont want to do it dont hunt legendary.

 

Also you guys have to understand that each player enjoy diferent thing and each has diferent skull/dedication. If for you something is hard, for other it might be ok and for another easy.

 

This is also problem with raids, fractals. Some players want something to be easier. But if anet makes it easier it will be too easy for players that already played it to enjoy - they leave the game. But when top players leave second become the best and someone is below them -> nerf content -> they leave.

After a while the game is dead because everything can be destroyed while sleeping.

 

Some parts of game are dedicated for some type of players. If you want legendary either try to improve or give up. Some players just want same rewards as players that tryhard for no effort

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > There is no universal truth of game design that states that personal progression (map completion, in this case) must always be a 100% solo affair.

>

> Devs can of course do whatever they want to appeal to whichever audience they're shooting for, but personal progression is generally solo content because most people play solo. Requiring group content is however not a problem, but only if a solo player can show up and complete it whenever they want to. If they can't, they only risk losing players, which is why most MMOs tend to make the leveling/story experience jokingly easy solo content so everyone can complete it, whereas group content can be balanced for a group of average players. As for map completion specifically however, there's really no point to it, though GW2 did train people to do it in place of questing. The only problem is that by locking some of it behind group content, they're discouraging all of it. A lot of people tend to focus on 1 character however, so they're more likely to do it once to experience it, but they'll definitely skip it on alts.

>

> A problem GW2 has is the fact that maps only fit around 80-100 players, no matter their size, and the megaservers don't actually prioritize filling them, so it can be half that. It would be much better off if zerg content was split from the normal maps and put in their own specific areas. This way, everyone is there to participate, and likewise, you don't have a zerg of AFKers wasting space in the normal maps. Ideally, the open world should scale for 1+, otherwise it's only guaranteed to eventually fail from the majority perspective. Group content on the other hand should be something you can easily queue in to on your own time, which is where the introduction of LFD/LFR in other MMOs saw a huge boost in participation. Imagine for example if you could simply queue up for any world boss at any time, and it were treated like an activity with automated teams and clear goals.

 

You're exaggerating the issue. DS is the only map where the entire thing is focused on large scale group play. Everything else with the exception of the big boss events is solo/small group play with hardly any content locked behind events of any kind.

 

Why must players be able to show up whenever they want? Is it not enough to have set timers so you know when you need to be there?

 

The map instance issue isn't an issue. Just use LFG. You want to be able to simply log in to a map whenever you want and play the way you want. I get that. Initially, I had the same complaint. However, once you familiarize yourself with the event timers and understand why you see those low population map instances at certain times, you can easily use LFG to get where you want to be. Players who understand this have no trouble completing meta events in HoT. I know because I routinely hop around doing HoT metas. I like the way they're on set timers so I can, for instance, hit up the TD meta and then hop right over just as the AB meta is starting. It's convenient and rewarding and there are always maps participating as long as you use LFG and show up at the right time.

 

If you're doing these things and still have an issue, I'd say the real issue is that you just don't like HoT and want to spend as little time there as possible. If that's the case, then I disagree even more strongly that we need to change anything. The fact is that unless we make it like the core game, players who strongly prefer that type of content will never enjoy HoT. That's a 100% dealbreaker for players like myself, so I say keep it as is!

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Galaa.8475" said:

> ditto on the nerfing stuff. im a solo player and no i don't have to "faceroll" it but would like to solo it. or make the hero points scale to the group size. with all of the negative feedback you guys have received about HOT maps. just do something positive in that area. no, i dont need to hear "ive soloed everything in hot on a level one toon bullcrap" either.

 

I think you do need to hear it, because you aren't the only type of player playing this game. Yeah, plenty of people dislike HoT. But plenty of people love it, too. The evidence is right in front of you: Despite numerous predictions to the contrary, HoT is thriving.

 

You want to solo HoT HP challenges? Great! Practice up! That's how I do it. If I can't complete the challenge solo, no big deal. There's always help to be found if I need it and I can come back to test my skills later if I want to. If we make it so easy that we can just afk through the challenge, then I can't do any of that. Not that I necessarily need to derive this sort of challenge from HPs, but simply removing the challenge is not acceptable to me. Champions on demand are a great feature for players who want to practice upping their game in solo play!

[kharmin.7683]

Nerf HoT, then OP gets his/her legendary and never sets foot in HoT again. Seems rather selfish to me?

[SunTzu.4513]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but why not scale all HP up so they can only done by small scale groups of three people or more?

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @"bladezero.9470" said:

> Nobody cares that you tried to make interesting and challenging content. The jungle was a failure. Just nerf it already.

 

I have no problem with the HoT hero challenges. My only issues related to HoT HPs is that the AB meta related events start right after the looting is done. They need a hour inserted in there for HP trains and map exploring. DS needs to be open to new arrivals after it's meta is done so people can get HPs. The last time I checked it blocked players from entering a finished map. VB is fine as is. TD is just a crazy map to do anything on.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Tekoneiric.6817" said:

> > @"bladezero.9470" said:

> > Nobody cares that you tried to make interesting and challenging content. The jungle was a failure. Just nerf it already.

>

> I have no problem with the HoT hero challenges. My only issues related to HoT HPs is that the AB meta related events start right after the looting is done. They need a hour inserted in there for HP trains and map exploring. DS needs to be open to new arrivals after it's meta is done so people can get HPs. The last time I checked it blocked players from entering a finished map. VB is fine as is. TD is just a crazy map to do anything on.

 

Meta events outside of Octovine don’t contribute to anything. We don’t need an hour of dead time to be inserted in there just for HP trains.

 

There’s a specific reason why DS is locked after the meta completes. It’s not going to go away.

 

TD events can be completed very quickly leaving plenty of time for the HP trains. That said, the meta events before Gerent don’t really contribute anything so getting them all done isn’t that important.

[Palador.2170]

It occurs to me that in a lot of cases, we could have it both ways.

 

For a lot of these HP challenges, you have to activate the fight. You click on the item, and the boss appears. What if it checked to see if you've done that one before or not, and responded accordingly. If you've not done it, you get a weaker fight. If you have done it, you get the stronger version.

 

This would still leave a few problem spots, but be a huge step forward for those that want to just get in there and get the HPs done without taking away the stronger fights that some people enjoy.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Palador.2170" said:

> It occurs to me that in a lot of cases, we could have it both ways.

>

> For a lot of these HP challenges, you have to activate the fight. You click on the item, and the boss appears. What if it checked to see if you've done that one before or not, and responded accordingly. If you've not done it, you get a weaker fight. If you have done it, you get the stronger version.

>

> This would still leave a few problem spots, but be a huge step forward for those that want to just get in there and get the HPs done without taking away the stronger fights that some people enjoy.

 

One major issue would be that someone could just spawn weaker versions for others.

 

There are more than enough soloable HoT HP’s to max out the elite specs. When it comes to map completion for legendaries, you’re going to have to group up with others anyway for the other parts. Alternatively, players can go the PoF route for that expansion’s version of the gift.

[Palador.2170]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

>

> One major issue would be that someone could just spawn weaker versions for others.

>

> There are more than enough soloable HoT HP’s to max out the elite specs. When it comes to map completion for legendaries, you’re going to have to group up with others anyway for the other parts. Alternatively, players can go the PoF route for that expansion’s version of the gift.

 

I guess I forgot to mention, the only reward for the weaker fight is the HPs. So, no point in spawning a weaker one to fight if you've already done it. Normal rewards come from the normal version of the fight.

 

And I'm really not thinking about just HoT here. I'm thinking that if they put in the two difficulty system, it could be used in new areas as they're added. HoT would just be a chance to get it up and working before using it in a new expansion.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Alternatively, players can go the PoF route for that expansion’s version of the gift.

For some, but not all legendaries.

There are at least 4 (Astralaria, HOPE, Nevermore, Chuka and Champawat) - possibly 5 (Eureka doesn't seem to have gotten the PoF recepie on the wiki) that **need** HoT map completion.

[bobsort.4097]

> @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> > @"Galaa.8475" said:

> > ditto on the nerfing stuff. im a solo player and no i don't have to "faceroll" it but would like to solo it. or make the hero points scale to the group size. with all of the negative feedback you guys have received about HOT maps. just do something positive in that area. no, i dont need to hear "ive soloed everything in hot on a level one toon bullcrap" either.

>

> Its not bullcrap though.

>

> Check out some informative videos on youtube

>

>

>

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIL74CRV-UE

>

>

>

> et cetera.

 

if somone comes here once in while and leave a message, means he tried, failed and waited and it didn't happen. most players rather play the game than coming to forum and leaving comments, they only come to forum to seek help. if someone's play style is different from "you" (not only Cerioth.7062) you can't ask them to play like "you" or follow your rules, he has a suggestion and you have a suggestion. "you" are not employee of anet, and you are not dictating what they do, and so as them. if you don't like their idea doesn't mean they are not allowed to talk.

 

I want the same thing as OP, and I have my own reasons. I don't like raid so instead I play map complete and I enjoy it. if 4 of them are gated in DS and I can't reach them because of so many reasons for weeks, don't make me enjoy the game. For just doing Pile of "kitten" in VB I'm not gonna sit there for hours AFK until I get lucky and a group form up for HP and do it with them, I rather go other places and do other stuff on my limited play time.

 

If you only have one toon or don't have map complete in any of your toons or only have it on one toon, this doesn't concern you. come back when you are interested in doing those HPs on all 9 classes of all races. if you can solo stuff, good for you, I can't. Yes, I have seen these videos. but one thing is he didn't do is solo in 9 classes in exotic gear and specially on 500MS latency (PING) when before you can even move second crazy hit already landed on you. Not every player is sitting next door to anet servers. I remember US ping increased from 5ms to 15ms and everyone going crazy about it like it is end of world. We in SEA area are lucky if we get 400MS ping.

 

Also not every player is playing same class. If you can solo champs on your necro, good for you. I have 15 toons and 6 map complete. did most of HoT map complete with groups. and others are waiting for those gated HPs or an HP train.

 

I suggest all the guys to do a proper research, there are so many reasons players want to be able to solo the HPs. Map complete , legendary, elite skills and daily rewards are just few of them.

 

Also having them done in WvW only works if your server is not the one with smallest pie


 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

Okay, but you aren't seriously suggesting that the game be designed around players who live on the other side of the world yet play on North American servers. And, as we've established, downgrading these challenges to veterans isn't free from consequences.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"bladezero.9470" said:

> I need Gift of Maguuma Mastery

>

> and I play pretty exclusively PvP

>

> I'd just like to finish this garbage while I queue.

 

Wait a minute ... so you hardly do PVE ... so you want Anet to nerf content you hardly play so you have an easy go of getting something?

 

I like that. Anet ... please nerf PVP at the same time so I can get my titles and PVP stuffz, just cause I can't be bothered to compete against real players to get it. Thanks for the idea man.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Alternatively, players can go the PoF route for that expansion’s version of the gift.

> For some, but not all legendaries.

> There are at least 4 (Astralaria, HOPE, Nevermore, Chuka and Champawat) - possibly 5 (Eureka doesn't seem to have gotten the PoF recepie on the wiki) that **need** HoT map completion.

 

And if you had quoted my entire post then you would have seen where I addressed this. In order to do the collections for those first several legendaries, you have to do group events which you cannot possibly solo. If you have to group up to do those then grouping up to do HP’s isn’t any different.