Please Finish Super Adventure Box

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > > > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

> > > >

> > > > Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

> > >

> > > Those chairs were there since launch, they just updated their functionality.

> >

> > many of them were placed manually specificaly for the update, it's in their communications, models are old, it doesn't change the fact they needed to record and code new animations, code sitting into the game and prepare collection for it

> >

> > if they have time to waste on this, they can do other things that are actually crucial for gameplay experience or content itself

>

> One man's waste of time is another man's long requested feature.

>

> I'm also not sure how many things that are crucial for gameplay experience or content can be provided by the animators who did the bulk of the work here.

>

> I also can't see where in the notes they said they placed any chairs manually. Can you provide a link please?

 

Coders and UI designers were involved aswell. Chairs are useless for gameplay, objectively. Meanwhile build templates would be much more appreciated. It's annoying when they make fluffy updates that require lots of work while important stuff is being ignored.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > > > > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

> > > >

> > > > Those chairs were there since launch, they just updated their functionality.

> > >

> > > many of them were placed manually specificaly for the update, it's in their communications, models are old, it doesn't change the fact they needed to record and code new animations, code sitting into the game and prepare collection for it

> > >

> > > if they have time to waste on this, they can do other things that are actually crucial for gameplay experience or content itself

> >

> > One man's waste of time is another man's long requested feature.

> >

> > I'm also not sure how many things that are crucial for gameplay experience or content can be provided by the animators who did the bulk of the work here.

> >

> > I also can't see where in the notes they said they placed any chairs manually. Can you provide a link please?

>

> Coders and UI designers were involved aswell. Chairs are useless for gameplay, objectively. Meanwhile build templates would be much more appreciated. It's annoying when they make fluffy updates that require lots of work while important stuff is being ignored.

 

Well, I like this feature, it's a really nice touch and something I felt was oddly missing.

 

That said, while we don't know the exact workload that this feature required as opposed to any other but all things being equal, yeah, I'd much rather they had added build templates. Or legendary weapon sigil swapping.

 

The fact that they didn't add build templates instead makes me think that these two features aren't close in complexity or effort. Or maybe they're coming down the line.

 

I do feel that somethings changed since the new director took over, maybe they appreciate that giving _some_ time to these kind of features is important. I'd personally much rather that every release was released a week later if it meant that we finally started to get these QoL features that people have been asking for for years.

[Ashen.2907]

I am honestly curious:

 

How much dev time would the chair update take?

Could an entire SAB world have been completed, start to finish, with the same resources?

 

If a sab world could not have been completed in the same time, then would not having those resources allocated to sab rather than the chair update have resulted in nothing being added to the game?

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> I am honestly curious:

>

> How much dev time would the chair update take?

> Could an entire SAB world have been completed, start to finish, with the same resources?

>

> If a sab world could not have been completed in the same time, then would not having those resources allocated to sab rather than the chair update have resulted in nothing being added to the game?

>

 

Let's assume chair update took less effort than new world in SAB. But it's still time and resources. If we take all the scraps of time and effort from multiple "fluffy" additions, we get enough to create new SAB world. Or build templates.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > I am honestly curious:

> >

> > How much dev time would the chair update take?

> > Could an entire SAB world have been completed, start to finish, with the same resources?

> >

> > If a sab world could not have been completed in the same time, then would not having those resources allocated to sab rather than the chair update have resulted in nothing being added to the game?

> >

>

> Let's assume chair update took less effort than new world in SAB. But it's still time and resources. If we take all the scraps of time and effort from multiple "fluffy" additions, we get enough to create new SAB world. Or build templates.

 

Maybe.

 

I also am curious as to whether the people who do level design and the like are the same ones who code chairs.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > I am honestly curious:

> > >

> > > How much dev time would the chair update take?

> > > Could an entire SAB world have been completed, start to finish, with the same resources?

> > >

> > > If a sab world could not have been completed in the same time, then would not having those resources allocated to sab rather than the chair update have resulted in nothing being added to the game?

> > >

> >

> > Let's assume chair update took less effort than new world in SAB. But it's still time and resources. If we take all the scraps of time and effort from multiple "fluffy" additions, we get enough to create new SAB world. Or build templates.

>

> Maybe.

>

> I also am curious as to whether the people who do level design and the like are the same ones who code chairs.

 

Those who made chairs could make new assets for W3 for example.

[Crise.9401]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > I am honestly curious:

> > >

> > > How much dev time would the chair update take?

> > > Could an entire SAB world have been completed, start to finish, with the same resources?

> > >

> > > If a sab world could not have been completed in the same time, then would not having those resources allocated to sab rather than the chair update have resulted in nothing being added to the game?

> > >

> >

> > Let's assume chair update took less effort than new world in SAB. But it's still time and resources. If we take all the scraps of time and effort from multiple "fluffy" additions, we get enough to create new SAB world. Or build templates.

>

> Maybe.

>

> I also am curious as to whether the people who do level design and the like are the same ones who code chairs.

 

There is no 1:1 overlap obviously, but this kind of what if debate is largely pointless anyhow. Considering chairs apparently required motion capture and game designers (or someone familiar enough with content production tools to hook up the behaviors to the models and set up collection/achievements, some dialogue for the rulers, and localization). I'd say outside of the fact that SAB needs a map artist and unique art it is probably largely people with similar skillsets.

 

The entire second world for SAB was created without any programming support, ie. no engine programmers, so yes SAB can be maintained by game designers and whatever is arenanet's choice of a title for people who crank out basic content using their in-house productivity tools without touching the engine itself. The biggest time and resource sink for SAB obviously is map artist and art asssets in general (since they are not and never will be reusable outside of SAB, and they can't use art from other areas of the game to fill the gaps and pad out environments).

 

The biggest challenge as far as SAB and new content is concerned is probably that the people who created it, assuming they all still work at ANet, are by now senior staff at the company. I know for a fact that Josh at least is a fantastic map artist... the maps he has been involved in, SAB or not, are amazing. So people like that are valuable in and of themselves.

 

Long story short, it is not a game of numbers... the first release of SAB was primarily created by handful of people yes (around 4 if memory serves), one of those people was an engine programmer, the second world had more resources, but no engine programmer or engine level changes. Hence why you can't really make comparisons between different types of content, or even the same type of content as the bit about the difference between 1st and 2nd SAB releases shows.

[Karmapolice.4193]

There's a whole bunch of unfinished plot lines from the main story since the start of the game. I'd love to see them finish SAB but I have zero confidence that it will ever be done.

[Cyrin.1035]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Would be really nice to if you made SAB available all year long and finished the last remaining 2 worlds and the final boss fight.

 

I love SAB and would also like it year-round. Or at least longer than 20 or so days. If it had its own consistent development team that would be amazing :)

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

>

> Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

>

> Sorry but this argument of "lack of resources" is now dead. If Anet has time to waste on chairs, they have time to finish SAB. Or create other important things like build templates. The way I must consider their approach to SAB from now on is not a case of resources, but lack of will to finish this content.

>

 

A direct quote from the chair patch notes: "In that distant past, the technology wasn't ready for our vision—when GW2 released, the land of Tyria had chairs, and it had sitting, but players were unable to gracefully combine the two. **Over time**, stopgaps were implemented, like sitting as a chair and riding mounts (referred to in the engine code as "nonstationary chairs"), but the dream of a complete chair experience remained in the realm of speculative science fiction."

 

This highly suggests that sitting in chairs is not something they've been working on the past few months, and also not something that required them to take developers away from their regular teams to work on this, thereby diminishing new regular content. Since the launch of the game, little updates have been implemented that brought sitting in chairs closer, and that moment is now here. Little updates that were implemented because of other new things that they implemented throughout the years.

 

Also, considering many people have asked for the ability to sit in chairs over the years, it is not a waste of time. That is actually an arrogant argument, because you do not decide what is a waste of time for the devs to be working on. You might not agree with what they spend their time on, but that's something else entirely. It takes a lot more than you imagine to finish a new SAB world, as Josh has explained back in 2016 when they brought it back. But I've noticed that people on the forum are all highly versed in the details of game development, because of all the arguments of how "easy" or "difficult" it is to add something. Everyone seems to know how much time ANet spends on things, how many developers are working on what, etc. In their enthusiasm they frequently shift developers around to other teams, where they things the devs would be more valuable and efficient. ANet even elaborated on some of those discussions about devtime and resources, explaining what it takes to develop certain things, and it always entails a lot more than what people imagine.

 

Then again, this was around the time that ANet started their current release schedule of once per 2 to 3 months. That was much more important back then, considering the negative feedback about content droughts (which was valid feedback). Now that they've eased into that release schedule and it's working as intended, who knows how the situation has changed/might change? For all we know freeing devtime for a new SAB world is more feasible now, and maybe it's not. But I'd rather have SAB as it is now return once a year, than not have it at all.

 

As a sidenote, I completely agree when it comes to build templates. They are long overdue. It would be nice to hear something from ANet about this, if they even have this on their agenda and plan on implementing it in the near future.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Sitting or SAB? Which requires more resources and how much is too much? None of us could possibly know that and it's pointless to speculate in an attempt to justify what is ultimately nothing more than your opinion.

 

I love SAB. I would like to see it further developed. I neither know nor care about the technical hurdles and I trust ANet to handle that. My decision to trust them and the subsequent decision to continue playing and purchasing gems and expansions hinges upon many factors. I would place SAB development in the category of things I would definitely pay cash for, either as DLC or simply as a gem purchase in appreciation of ANet bringing more of something I truly love about GW2 and have hoped to see for a long time now.

[Mewcifer.5198]

Sitting vs SAB is kind of a bad way to argue for more SAB.

 

Many people wanted to be able to sit on chairs. Many people complained regularly and/or mocked their inability to sit in chairs. It was something people were asking for. It is not as is the devs did it without having been asked. Just because it is not necessarily something you wanted doesn't make it unwanted.

 

Imagine if/when SAB gets a new world and a bunch of people who dislike SAB complain and say that it was wasted developer time to do. And how they think the devs should have done x-thing instead.

 

We are talking a minor festival update vs what many see as a QoL update. While I enjoy festivals, and I know many else do as well, they are not major parts of the game. I fully support adding more to the festivals, but I don't agree with putting down something the devs worked hard on and were very excited about in order to say "well why not *this thing* that *I* wanted"

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

>

> Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

>

> Sorry but this argument of "lack of resources" is now dead. If Anet has time to waste on chairs, they have time to finish SAB. Or create other important things like build templates. The way I must consider their approach to SAB from now on is not a case of resources, but lack of will to finish this content.

>

 

Sitting, while arbitrary, is part of the main game experience, SAB is not

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

> >

> > Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

> >

> > Sorry but this argument of "lack of resources" is now dead. If Anet has time to waste on chairs, they have time to finish SAB. Or create other important things like build templates. The way I must consider their approach to SAB from now on is not a case of resources, but lack of will to finish this content.

> >

>

> Sitting, while arbitrary, is part of the main game experience, SAB is not

 

It is absolutely not. It is fluff "content" available in cities only, very limited and with no gameplay consequences (or value - to me). SAB is an annual festival, providing player retention and additional revenue through gem store sales.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> Sitting, while arbitrary, is part of the main game experience, SAB is not

 

lol

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

> > >

> > > Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

> > >

> > > Sorry but this argument of "lack of resources" is now dead. If Anet has time to waste on chairs, they have time to finish SAB. Or create other important things like build templates. The way I must consider their approach to SAB from now on is not a case of resources, but lack of will to finish this content.

> > >

> >

> > Sitting, while arbitrary, is part of the main game experience, SAB is not

>

> It is absolutely not. It is fluff "content" available in cities only, very limited and with no gameplay consequences (or value - to me). SAB is an annual festival, providing player retention and additional revenue through gem store sales.

 

SAB is not a festival and you know.

Its a poor April first joke that was dragged out too far because of a small group who kept demanding its return

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > > > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

> > > >

> > > > Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

> > > >

> > > > Sorry but this argument of "lack of resources" is now dead. If Anet has time to waste on chairs, they have time to finish SAB. Or create other important things like build templates. The way I must consider their approach to SAB from now on is not a case of resources, but lack of will to finish this content.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Sitting, while arbitrary, is part of the main game experience, SAB is not

> >

> > It is absolutely not. It is fluff "content" available in cities only, very limited and with no gameplay consequences (or value - to me). SAB is an annual festival, providing player retention and additional revenue through gem store sales.

>

> SAB is not a festival and you know.

> Its a poor April first joke that was dragged out too far because of a small group who kept demanding its return

 

It started as AF joke, it's now a festival. You can even see it in your achievement panel right now :)

[pelle ossa.9705]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > > > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

> > > >

> > > > Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

> > > >

> > > > Sorry but this argument of "lack of resources" is now dead. If Anet has time to waste on chairs, they have time to finish SAB. Or create other important things like build templates. The way I must consider their approach to SAB from now on is not a case of resources, but lack of will to finish this content.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Sitting, while arbitrary, is part of the main game experience, SAB is not

> >

> > It is absolutely not. It is fluff "content" available in cities only, very limited and with no gameplay consequences (or value - to me). SAB is an annual festival, providing player retention and additional revenue through gem store sales.

>

> SAB is not a festival and you know.

> Its a poor April first joke that was dragged out too far because of a small group who kept demanding its return

 

a small group really? REALLY? oh well sit fanboy are the worst....

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I'm of the opposite opinion. I don't want Anet to waste another second of developer time on SAB related work. Cants awaits!

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"pelle ossa.9705" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > > > > They actually can't afford the devtime needed to create Worlds 3 and 4, as they would be taking away people from teams working on the regular game content.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like manually placing hundreds of sittable furniture for this week update?

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry but this argument of "lack of resources" is now dead. If Anet has time to waste on chairs, they have time to finish SAB. Or create other important things like build templates. The way I must consider their approach to SAB from now on is not a case of resources, but lack of will to finish this content.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sitting, while arbitrary, is part of the main game experience, SAB is not

> > >

> > > It is absolutely not. It is fluff "content" available in cities only, very limited and with no gameplay consequences (or value - to me). SAB is an annual festival, providing player retention and additional revenue through gem store sales.

> >

> > SAB is not a festival and you know.

> > Its a poor April first joke that was dragged out too far because of a small group who kept demanding its return

>

> a small group really? REALLY? oh well sit fanboy are the worst....

 

I think the 'sitting' was also a waste of time, considering there were other more pressing issues.

So don't put me with them 'fanboys'.

but at least sitting is something permanent and 'real world' wereas SAB was a temporary niche content from the start.

[zealex.9410]

The obviously had the devs to push functional chairs out so i dont see why finishing sab is unrealistic. with out any new content theres no point to it and no, new rewards dont count as new content.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> The obviously had the devs to push functional chairs out so i dont see why finishing sab is unrealistic. with out any new content theres no point to it and no, new rewards dont count as new content.

 

How is that obvious? Explain it to me. Because I read the patch notes regarding the chairs and to me it read clearly as something that they have been taking little steps towards over years of time, since the launch of the game. This isn't something they decided a month ago and had to "push" devs to implement this feature. The only thing that is obvious to me is that you've interpreted the patch notes differently, assuming you've read them in the first place.