Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Remember when Thief was on top in the pvp meta, and mesmers whined that, because it was the king of mobility, it should do lower damage because mobility on top of having absurd damage was too much?

 

Ha, haha. Nostalgia.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> Remember when Thief was on top in the pvp meta, and mesmers whined that, because it was the king of mobility, it should do lower damage because mobility on top of having absurd damage was too much?

>

> Ha, haha. Nostalgia.

 

I remember the complaints more that thief hard counter, and still does to an extent, power Mesmer to the point that running Mesmer was actually detrimental to the team unless you were Misha, Supcutie, or Helseth.

[DaShi.1368]

I recently played against one of the top mesmers, supposedly, on my sb and won nearly every point. And did win every match. I'm not a top player. I don't even play enough ranked to place and if I did I still wouldn't make it on the leaderboard.

 

However, I will say a few things about the fights. Hitting the mesmer isn't a problem. I was able to land most of my hits. People who think they have too many blocks/evades are just spamming skills and getting angry that it isn't working. Hitting the mesmer enough before it kills you is the actual problem. As an sb, I had enough defense to survive the bursts and apply enough pressure until he was either downed or ran away. But I don't think other classes would have as decent a chance. And with a lot of the sb nerfs coming, I doubt I could do as well against such a mesmer again.

 

I definitely agree that power mesmers are op right now (but not to current sb), and wouldn't mind seeing further tweaks to their damage output. sb is in the same position, high damage, high defense and getting a lot of nerfs for it.

[Dawdler.8521]

That's absurd?

 

We met a 100% boon duration minstrel chrono in WvW the other day. 3v1. For 8 minutes. Then we gave up trying to kill him. I was on my mirage that can kill a zerker in < 5 seconds.

 

*That* is absurd. sPvP doesnt even have extreme builds, lol.

 

 

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > clone, phantasms, or illusions it's all the same visual cluster kitten that annoys me, might do different things but the fact that they spawn the same way and appear the same doesn't really change the fact it's bad especially if your "clearing" them off and they just repop again.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ones purple and the other is modeled after the user.... how is that appearing the same? One does damage the other... well the other is just there.

> > > > > The only thing that’s changed is phantasms don’t count towards the illusion limit(they need their own 3 phantasm limit). Visual clutter is an entirely different issue as ALL classes need the special effects toned down.

> > > > >

> > > > > I imagine you’ve had issues with determining clone/phantasm/player for a while yes?

> > > >

> > > > no..... i played mesmer upon the first 2 years of guildwars and play them now every so often however i like my engi more. My one and only issue is their clone spam visual during a group fight, especially if theirs 2 mesmers in the same team it becomes a major visual kitten up period. IF they didn't have clones stacking up to more then 3 then that wont be an issue however when you got JUST one mesmer with 6 illusions or whatever you want to call it becomes an issue. I had my fair of fun fights in plat 2/3 last few seasons however after that mesmer change noting "fun" was brought to the table while fighting them, like i mention before i'll rather have confusion mesmer be the cancer then this new style of spam mesmer that has made the class stupidly easier to play which has a lot of the mesmer main just being down right nearly unstoppable in 1vs1 when stealing a node.

> > > >

> > > > anyway my point is this.... IF this class is going to be a lot easier to play with then theirs no reason why it needs the amount of durability it has or it can be the other way around.... with the amount of suitability it has it shouldn't deal so much damage at all with either condi or power. I'm Also not even pointing out the fact that MOST top tier teams AT the moment RUN 2 mesmer for the abuse of potential it has which is a completely different topic for later.

> > >

> > > If you’ve played the class for two years then using the right term shouldn’t be hard. No one spamming clones.

> > >

> > > Next the issue isn’t Mesmer dealing damage. Phantasms just recently underwent a major overhaul, only one maybe two people on this forum are saying they’re fine. Everyone else, mesmers included, agree that certain phantasms need a reduction in damage, that certain skills need nerfed. Implementing a 3 clone/3 phantasm limit reduces visual clutter and solves a lot of the current issue with the boon spam build. However, rather than coming up viable ideas everyone just wants Mesmer to receive the Smiters Boon treatment simply because they don’t like the class.

> > >

> > > If you want to have a discussion on what would be healthy nerfs I’m agreeable to doing so, however, very few people want that. They want their class to be OP and nothing else.

> >

> > I could careless how op or weak the class gets the only issue i want fix is the cluster kitten visual that disguise me during a major battle at node, other then that it doesn't matter especially if the nerfs coming on Tuesday isn't going to fix anything for the class and we'll MOST likely not see anything happen till the middle of season 11. If you play a mele class that needs to be up close for combat you'll understand the frustration that a lot of us with this entire thing, as for those who want the class completely nerf is a bit silly however they do need a few tweaks with weather it's the phantasm or the trait-lines either 1 needs a small tweak down to get things lined up well. However with the nerfs they listed and shown us it's already an obv sign that mesmer are going to stay TOP tier with possibly no other class being it's equal in what it can do.

> >

> > Like i stated in my original post the visual is what kitten this game-mode up in a lot of ways, and the fact it gets abused when 2-3 people play the same class just for the LoL to make things toxic/stupid.

> >

> >

>

> Then what you need to be advocating for is Anet to finally implement a class stacking protocol so no class has more than one per team. That solves a lot of issues but will come with longer queue times.

 

trust me buddy i been trying and they won't ever do it.

[Daishi.6027]

So much L2P. A good smart Thief is just as unkillable has access to the same defenses listed save for decent reflect. Not everything you mentioned is used by all builds to great effect (disenchanter builds typically doesn’t take stealth for example)

 

Roll some condi bomb.

Roll some Druid bunk.

Roll some AoE.

Then learn to doge shatters.

 

It’s not hard, vs plat 2+ mes mains I stalemate with eles, win without effort on rangers (takes a while sometimes if not condi), have decent win rates with war/engie vs them, and that’s all before rolling something that pressures their lack of cleanse.

 

Yes it’s hard to fight phant spam with a guard for example, but even then you can win with a combination of kiting and using walls which I can port through.

 

It’s getting nerfed sufficiently next patch, and possibly more than you already know.

The numbers look light but it clearly shows your ignorance of the class if you believe it means nothing. Remember when they nerfed condi and everyone was like “they didn’t change it enough, will still be broken!”? Then remember how now very few cry about scourge, and we have significantly less condi builds?

Lol it’s just like that.

[Highlie.7641]

Lol, the lenght's some people go through to keep there carry me spec.

 

same defense's as a thief... why don't you put 1/2 second of thought into that statement...

 

[Shao.7236]

I think the worst would be that the distortions have visually no tell when they actually fully end, you can calculate if you know the duration, but by design they should not be a fading effect, they should just go away as soon as the mesmer is possible to hit again, that would already help the spam of it.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> I think the worst would be that the distortions have visually no tell when they actually fully end, you can calculate if you know the duration, but by design they should not be a fading effect, they should just go away as soon as the mesmer is possible to hit again, that would already help the spam of it.

 

Huh?

There’s a visual buff on the bar.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > I think the worst would be that the distortions have visually no tell when they actually fully end, you can calculate if you know the duration, but by design they should not be a fading effect, they should just go away as soon as the mesmer is possible to hit again, that would already help the spam of it.

>

> Huh?

> There’s a visual buff on the bar.

 

For something that happens so often and doesn't last, we can all agree that it's kind of stupid to break line of sight with a profession that can potential destroy you in no time just to check the buffs, not only that they can also attack while evading as well, if what you mean is the F key distortion, that's not the one. I'm talking about the evade stun break.

[DaShi.1368]

True, thieves have more.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"skeletonman.5348" said:

> try to catch a decent mesmer on a map like kyhlo

>

> jaunt up the windmill, port to the over side off the map, blink back to the mill, sword ambush here sword ambush there jaunt here again jaunt there and the portal will be ready again soon.

>

> top of that **invuln, blocks,** reflects, **daze and blind for days, stealth**

 

My bad guys, I guess thief doesn't have easy access to blind, dazes, and stealth. Can't block at all, and Evade's aren't for the most part similar function to invulns.

Also my bad, they don't have z axis ports, or able to engage and disengage at the drop of a hat with or without shadow returns.

 

Boy wouldn't it be weird if thief got as many, if not more access to evades or stealth depending on on weapon sets? Might also be an oddity to have flat endurance regeneration, surely they have to rely on vigor too. Good thing 4 ini to evade isn't pretty spammable and or anything.

 

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> Lol, the lenght's some people go through to keep there carry me spec.

>

> same defense's as a thief... why don't you put 1/2 second of thought into that statement...

>

 

Sorry, I'll think about it more nextime.

 

I'm lying guys sorry, Mirage/Chrono has much much more evades than only: 2 normal baseline, BF, Distortion.... Mirror on heal and vigor on shatters if mirage (cuz no one seriously uses Desert Distortion).

Oh and random aegis blocks if running chaos or staff, at which point odds are you aren't getting dueling's vigor.

[Toron.4856]

The big difference to thieves is that mesmers have a higher hp pool, invuln, cannot be effected by CC due to EM and oh well... mesmers can create phantasms and clones LOL

[DaShi.1368]

I'd rather fight mesmers than thieves any day.

[Abelisk.4527]

Mirage is more broken than Daredevil, it's just that Mirage is harder to play for most of the community. The overwhelming function skills and when to use ambushes etc stumps most players.

[Lordrosicky.5813]

I dont know why mesmer's defend their class so much. You dont need to bother. Anet will never nerf you so it doesnt matter.

 

Mesmer is completely broke. TBH so is scourge. And thief is pretty broken imo. IMO those 3 classes need large nerfs. Scourge should only be nerfed on the scourge skills/traits though. And thief is getting nerfed a nice amount in the patch. So that leaves mesmer which needs across the board nerfs

[ZeteCommander.4937]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> >

> > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

>

> Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

 

lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

[Odik.4587]

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > >

> > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> >

> > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

>

> lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

 

Its meta complaint about memser with all trait lines +2 elites. Are you new to forum ? ;)

I personally find its funny ,so many holosmith making all this nerf threads

[ZeteCommander.4937]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > > >

> > > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> > >

> > > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

> >

> > lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

>

> Its meta complaint about memser with all trait lines +2 elites. Are you new to forum ? ;)

> I personally find its funny ,so many holosmith making all this nerf threads

 

I'm not familiar with the meta here.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > >

> > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> >

> > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

>

> lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

 

Greater than holosmith-level damage: Most phantasms

Thief engage/disengage/ganking: Blink, Jaunts, Mirage Thrusts, Portal

Warrior tankiness: Permanent protection + paladins amulet, very good condi clear, etc. etc. etc. etc.

[Crab Fear.1624]

 

How I feel and play as a mesmer

[ZeteCommander.4937]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > > >

> > > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> > >

> > > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

> >

> > lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

>

> Greater than holosmith-level damage: Most phantasms

> Thief engage/disengage/ganking: Blink, Jaunts, Mirage Thrusts

> Warrior tankiness: Permanent protection + paladins amulet, very good condi clear, etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

what phantasms could make damage like holo 123545 ,please concrete explanation

 

mes :Blink have 30s cd，Jaunts only 450 rang ,Mirage Thrusts 600 rang ,Compare with thieves，'Infiltrator's Strike' 0cd 900 rang ('Infiltrator's Return' 1200rang) 'Shadow Shot' 0cd 900rang ' Infiltrator's Arrow' 0cd 900rang ,Steal 1200 rang（The maximum use of two times），limitless acceleration......(more is not to say)

The above description mes engage/disengage/ganking than Thief?

 

everyone can equipment paladins amulet so everyone have warrior tankiness（mes unable to provide permanent protection）？no choice of inspiration is only a little clear, warrior has a lot of resistance even not SB

 

 

[ZeteCommander.4937]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > > >

> > > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> > >

> > > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

> >

> > lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

>

> Greater than holosmith-level damage: Most phantasms

> Thief engage/disengage/ganking: Blink, Jaunts, Mirage Thrusts

> Warrior tankiness: Permanent protection + paladins amulet, very good condi clear, etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

what phantasms could make damage like holo 123545 ,please concrete explanation.

'Holo Leap' 1.8*power 2s cd ,'Corona Burst' 1.2*power 6s cd ',Photon Blitz' 5.12*power 10s cd

 

mes :Blink have 30s cd，Jaunts only 450 rang ,Mirage Thrusts 600 rang ,Compare with thieves，'Infiltrator's Strike' 0cd 900 rang ('Infiltrator's Return' 1200rang) 'Shadow Shot' 0cd 900rang ' Infiltrator's Arrow' 0cd 900rang ,Steal 1200 rang（The maximum use of two times），limitless acceleration......(more is not to say)

The above description mes engage/disengage/ganking than Thief?

 

everyone can equipment paladins amulet so everyone have warrior tankiness？no choice of inspiration is only a little clear, warrior has a lot of resistance even not SB

 

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > > >

> > > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> > >

> > > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

> >

> > lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

>

> Greater than holosmith-level damage: Most phantasms

> Thief engage/disengage/ganking: Blink, Jaunts, Mirage Thrusts, Portal

> Warrior tankiness: Permanent protection + paladins amulet, very good condi clear, etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

I wonder if u stop pop out out of nowhere.

'Some' phantasms with some conditions met up (Yes , must be nerfed damage,like 999 ppl agree) but outside that its holo level damage?:D

Very good condi clear? on current mirage or chrono spamming phantasms? ON mirage alone its not.

Thief is better at everything you mention except portal.

Warrior tankiness?Noone use palading amulet on EU . They arent posses of warrior HP pool/heavy armor.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > > > >

> > > > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> > > >

> > > > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

> > >

> > > lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

> >

> > Greater than holosmith-level damage: Most phantasms

> > Thief engage/disengage/ganking: Blink, Jaunts, Mirage Thrusts

> > Warrior tankiness: Permanent protection + paladins amulet, very good condi clear, etc. etc. etc. etc.

>

> what phantasms could make damage like holo 123545 ,please concrete explanation

 

[11k Disenchanter](https://imgur.com/a/8PhBv)

[11k Defender](https://imgur.com/a/7zCSp)

 

>

> mes :Blink have 30s cd，Jaunts only 450 rang ,Mirage Thrusts 600 rang ,Compare with thieves，'Infiltrator's Strike' 0cd 900 rang ('Infiltrator's Return' 1200rang) 'Shadow Shot' 0cd 900rang ' Infiltrator's Arrow' 0cd 900rang ,Steal 1200 rang（The maximum use of two times），limitless acceleration......(more is not to say)

> The above description mes engage/disengage/ganking than Thief?

 

lol?

 

Meta Mesmer:

- Blink is on a shorter cooldown than Shadowstep and travels 1200 range.

- You can Jaunt 3 times in a row and travel 1350 range.

- You can Mirage Thrust like 9x in a row if you really wanted to and travel 5400 range.

- Portal has a range of 5000.

 

Total w/o Portal = 7550 range

Total w/ Portal = 12950 range

 

Meta Thief:

- Shadowstep 1200 range.

- Infiltrator's Arrow 3 times in a row to travel 2700 range.

 

Total without target = 3900 range

- Steal 1200 range.

- Infiltrator's Strike 900 range.

 

Total = 6000 range

 

>

> everyone can equipment paladins amulet so everyone have warrior tankiness（mes unable to provide permanent protection）？no choice of inspiration is only a little clear, warrior has a lot of resistance even not SB

>

>

 

Yes, mesmer can get permanent protection lol...

 

Both dodges and jaunts clear condis btw. You don't even need inspiration.