If MMR were accurate

[Vicariuz.1605]

Would that mean at 8pm I play like a plat 1 / gold 3 player, but at 10pm I play plat 3? Then again at 8 AM im back down to a plat 1 playing level?

 

It is every season, a roller coaster of plat3/legend to plat 1 and back up and down, ENOUGH with putting golds and silvers on my fucking team.

 

 

You need to address the serious issues you've created with your game @every single Anet dev that has ever had anything to do with pvp.

[BMW.2951]

Sadly ANET does not have control of the population man.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

[Kako.1930]

Lol, the tiers don't mean anything. I'm currently at plat 1 on my scrapper, but I've been all over the place between as low as gold 1 and as high as plat 3. Which makes it seem kind of silly to rage about getting a gold player on your team when you want all platinums because there's a good chance that gold player is just bouncing back from a losing streak or something. It's really more based on where you are at any point in your win/loss streak.

[Vicariuz.1605]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

 

absolutely. WITHOUT QUESTION.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > @"BMW.2951" said:

> > Sadly ANET does not have control of the population man.

>

> This is one of the most ignorant posts of this forum. That's impressive.

>

> The DEVELOPERS of the game don't have control over their content? wowee. No wonder this game mode is in the state that it is.

 

?

 

Players aren't content.

I'm all for giving you longer queue times though.

[MikeL.8260]

I honestly have no idea where all those accusations of wrong matching MMRs is coming from, I play 2 or 3 ranked matches everyday sometimes more and so far this Season I only remember one match that felt unbalanced (excluding promos, those are different) in terms of skill.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> Would that mean at 8pm I play like a plat 1 / gold 3 player, but at 10pm I play plat 3? Then again at 8 AM im back down to a plat 1 playing level?

>

> It is every season, a roller coaster of plat3/legend to plat 1 and back up and down, ENOUGH with putting golds and silvers on my kitten team.

>

>

> You need to address the serious issues you've created with your game @every single Anet dev that has ever had anything to do with pvp.

 

PvP is the most player driven mode in this game. How difficult or easy a match turns out to be is dependent on a huge amount of factors. For example some days or the week I am able to play 2 hours, some days I don't have time to spend in game; which days you ask? It's random. Multiply that out to fit the entire population and you have a multitude of variables.

Here are some examples:

- time of day - is the pool of players available for PvP large or is it off-peak and there are few people to match up? is the system forced to put players of different tiers together to prevent huge

- time of season - is it early or late in the season? is the majority of the population still in placement or are they rushing to finish reward tracks before season closes?

- your team mates - are they skilled at combat? are they good at team fights or 1v1s or both? are they using a main or trying out an alt for the 1st time? are they putting in enough effort? are they on a winning streak or perhaps haven't got the touch today? are they correctly rated(rated too high or too low?) do they know their role and are they playing it?

- you - are you playing to the best of your ability? are you playing a class which you're proficient with or not? are you using an optimal build?

- the opposition - are they more skilled overall? do they have a composition which counters yours or does yours counter theirs? are they over/under rated? are they putting in max effort? can you figure out what they are weak at and exploit it before they do the same to you?

- in general - are you, your team or the opposition watching the map? is there good rotation? if you're struggling to fight directly, can you out-rotate? what kind of map is it? does it favour ranged or mele? do you and your team know the map well, including shortcuts and port spots? what are the secondary objectives on the map? do you/your team know when to take them and when to leave them alone?

 

There are so many other factors involved, like individual skill, builds and their counters and I've probably missed some important ones out.

Yes, of course there are other aspects, like match fixing/wintrading, afking, use of cheats but we're not going into that.

Unlike some others I don't believe in "rigged matchmaking", and I think the system works fairly well given the resources available - i.e. the playerbase. There is a compromise made so that waiting times are reasonable which sometimes match players worse than other times but you need to understand that some players cannot wait 30-50 mins for "the perfect match-up". Of course the system _could_ be better - but it's also not easy given that you cannot rely the playerbase consistent every day, every hour etc.

[Vicariuz.1605]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > Would that mean at 8pm I play like a plat 1 / gold 3 player, but at 10pm I play plat 3? Then again at 8 AM im back down to a plat 1 playing level?

> >

> > It is every season, a roller coaster of plat3/legend to plat 1 and back up and down, ENOUGH with putting golds and silvers on my kitten team.

> >

> >

> > You need to address the serious issues you've created with your game @every single Anet dev that has ever had anything to do with pvp.

>

> PvP is the most player driven mode in this game. How difficult or easy a match turns out to be is dependent on a huge amount of factors. For example some days or the week I am able to play 2 hours, some days I don't have time to spend in game; which days you ask? It's random. Multiply that out to fit the entire population and you have a multitude of variables.

> Here are some examples:

> - time of day - is the pool of players available for PvP large or is it off-peak and there are few people to match up? is the system forced to put players of different tiers together to prevent huge

> - time of season - is it early or late in the season? is the majority of the population still in placement or are they rushing to finish reward tracks before season closes?

> - your team mates - are they skilled at combat? are they good at team fights or 1v1s or both? are they using a main or trying out an alt for the 1st time? are they putting in enough effort? are they on a winning streak or perhaps haven't got the touch today? are they correctly rated(rated too high or too low?) do they know their role and are they playing it?

> - you - are you playing to the best of your ability? are you playing a class which you're proficient with or not? are you using an optimal build?

> - the opposition - are they more skilled overall? do they have a composition which counters yours or does yours counter theirs? are they over/under rated? are they putting in max effort? can you figure out what they are weak at and exploit it before they do the same to you?

> - in general - are you, your team or the opposition watching the map? is there good rotation? if you're struggling to fight directly, can you out-rotate? what kind of map is it? does it favour ranged or mele? do you and your team know the map well, including shortcuts and port spots? what are the secondary objectives on the map? do you/your team know when to take them and when to leave them alone?

>

> There are so many other factors involved, like individual skill, builds and their counters and I've probably missed some important ones out.

> Yes, of course there are other aspects, like match fixing/wintrading, afking, use of cheats but we're not going into that.

> Unlike some others I don't believe in "rigged matchmaking", and I think the system works fairly well given the resources available - i.e. the playerbase. There is a compromise made so that waiting times are reasonable which sometimes match players worse than other times but you need to understand that some players cannot wait 30-50 mins for "the perfect match-up". Of course the system _could_ be better - but it's also not easy given that you cannot rely the playerbase consistent every day, every hour etc.

 

Yeah tell me more dude, ive only been legend/plat3 every season on multiple accounts lmfao, clearly never played before nor do I know how conquest or the population works................................

 

These forums, and especially the forum mods are a grotesque joke. Remove more posts mods, anything that you dont agree with, infract and ban. ESPECIALLY if its true. lmfao.

 

If this game were as great as these "people" like to pretend it is, there would be a population and a competitive scene sorry to inform.

 

Spaghetti coding a mm to try to create "even" matches with spreads of up to and over 300 rating (entire divisions) but it's fine right? THAT'S balance.

 

Get a grip.

[Chum Chum.7234]

It is funny. I'm G3/P1 at 7am EST, but win 90% of my matches from 6-8 pm EST. In order to finish the season in Plat, I simply stop playing in the morning.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

>

> absolutely. WITHOUT QUESTION.

 

I don’t think you appreciate how long these queues would be, we would be talking maybe an hour or longer.

[Vicariuz.1605]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

> >

> > absolutely. WITHOUT QUESTION.

>

> I don’t think you appreciate how long these queues would be, we would be talking maybe an hour or longer.

 

Better than completely arbitrary matches. I already delt with upwards of 20+ min queues before in this game and would be more than willing to do so again for even a semblance of an actual match.

 

I am sick and tired of farming the noobs on the enemy team while the 1-2 (if that) good player(s) on enemy team does the same to mine. It's boring af. What's NOT boring however is right after an AT when games are comprised of 3-4 good players per team, which lasts all of maybe 2 rounds on NA.

 

It does NOT feel good to beat higher ranked players than me because I farmed their scrubs "better" than they did mine, that limits player's class and build choice and straight up pushes people away from the game.

 

Instead of bandaiding the MM, solve the population problem. Example being WC3, getting tons of new viewership, tournaments, updates including balance for a 15 year old RTS that was for all intents and purposes completely dead. Huge influx of new players because of it. Imagine that, when a game is properly supported people want to play it.

[Levijeh.1467]

I think you'll still get disappointed if your waited for 20+ minutes queues willing to get an 'actual' match. Not only the population is the lowest of all seasons, but the lack of players around your skill level is as well. Playing on weekends works best for me, matches are a bit more balanced, however not that much because of the first two reasons.

 

Just look back at Season 5, at the end of season the last spot in top 250 was 1780'ish, there was more than 40 players in legendary division in NA and even more in EU if I'm not mistaken and the numbers were very tight. Now compare those numbers to last season and this one, it's sad but that explains the quality of matches we have now.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

>

> absolutely. WITHOUT QUESTION.

 

That's a little self serving. You do realize that as you get higher in tier, your wait times increase significantly and the variation in players you see decreases? There is a BIG price to consistency and you might not realize this but if you had more consistency, you might not even reach the tiers that reflect your skill. You don't really know what you are asking for here.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

> > >

> > > absolutely. WITHOUT QUESTION.

> >

> > I don’t think you appreciate how long these queues would be, we would be talking maybe an hour or longer.

>

> Better than completely arbitrary matches. I already delt with upwards of 20+ min queues before in this game and would be more than willing to do so again for even a semblance of an actual match.

>

> I am sick and tired of farming the noobs on the enemy team while the 1-2 (if that) good player(s) on enemy team does the same to mine. It's boring af. What's NOT boring however is right after an AT when games are comprised of 3-4 good players per team, which lasts all of maybe 2 rounds on NA.

>

> It does NOT feel good to beat higher ranked players than me because I farmed their scrubs "better" than they did mine, that limits player's class and build choice and straight up pushes people away from the game.

>

> Instead of bandaiding the MM, solve the population problem. Example being WC3, getting tons of new viewership, tournaments, updates including balance for a 15 year old RTS that was for all intents and purposes completely dead. Huge influx of new players because of it. Imagine that, when a game is properly supported people want to play it.

 

You would literally be waiting for an **hour or more** to play with 75% of the people in the last game. You would be back here complaining at long queue times for stale matches with the same people over and over again.

 

Yes the population is the issue, while ANet shoulder some of the burden of blame (snails pace balancing, creating unfun metas, classes having next to no role diversity) people like you likewise need to own up to how you are causing a population drop too, that’s in reference to the following:

 

> @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> Yeah tell me more dude, ive only been legend/plat3 every season on multiple accounts lmfao, clearly never played before nor do I know how conquest or the population works................................

 

> These forums, and especially the forum mods are a grotesque joke. Remove more posts mods, anything that you dont agree with, infract and ban. ESPECIALLY if its true. lmfao.

 

> If this game were as great as these "people" like to pretend it is, there would be a population and a competitive scene sorry to inform.

 

> Spaghetti coding a mm to try to create "even" matches with spreads of up to and over 300 rating (entire divisions) but it's fine right? THAT'S balance.

 

> Get a grip.

 

If you have been banned, modded and had your posts removed it’s usually because you were being rude, I won’t deny there is some sweeping under the rug of some issues however on the whole the people that get modded are rude and childish. Then we have in game behaviour by many players in PvP is generally hostile, you see it with streamers too where if someone plays badly (because they’re 200 rating below everyone else/not as experienced) they get whispers, constant raging in team chat sometimes map chat and then what do they do? Block the people preventing any form of teamwork in the future just based on their performance. Great community of adults we have here.

 

You yourself are laying a person for what? Explaining in a post factors affecting rating difference and matchmaking?

 

Note: I am not saying you rage at and block people or behave in a rude way in game, just using your snarky post as context for pointing out other factors outside of ANets control which certainly affects player population

[Skittledness.5106]

The problem is low population and skill desparity between higher tiers and lowers.

I suggest upper tiers receive more gold per win/game played.

 

Also add build templates already

[Vicariuz.1605]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

> > > >

> > > > absolutely. WITHOUT QUESTION.

> > >

> > > I don’t think you appreciate how long these queues would be, we would be talking maybe an hour or longer.

> >

> > Better than completely arbitrary matches. I already delt with upwards of 20+ min queues before in this game and would be more than willing to do so again for even a semblance of an actual match.

> >

> > I am sick and tired of farming the noobs on the enemy team while the 1-2 (if that) good player(s) on enemy team does the same to mine. It's boring af. What's NOT boring however is right after an AT when games are comprised of 3-4 good players per team, which lasts all of maybe 2 rounds on NA.

> >

> > It does NOT feel good to beat higher ranked players than me because I farmed their scrubs "better" than they did mine, that limits player's class and build choice and straight up pushes people away from the game.

> >

> > Instead of bandaiding the MM, solve the population problem. Example being WC3, getting tons of new viewership, tournaments, updates including balance for a 15 year old RTS that was for all intents and purposes completely dead. Huge influx of new players because of it. Imagine that, when a game is properly supported people want to play it.

>

> You would literally be waiting for an **hour or more** to play with 75% of the people in the last game. You would be back here complaining at long queue times for stale matches with the same people over and over again.

>

> Yes the population is the issue, while ANet shoulder some of the burden of blame (snails pace balancing, creating unfun metas, classes having next to no role diversity) people like you likewise need to own up to how you are causing a population drop too, that’s in reference to the following:

>

> > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > Yeah tell me more dude, ive only been legend/plat3 every season on multiple accounts lmfao, clearly never played before nor do I know how conquest or the population works................................

>

> > These forums, and especially the forum mods are a grotesque joke. Remove more posts mods, anything that you dont agree with, infract and ban. ESPECIALLY if its true. lmfao.

>

> > If this game were as great as these "people" like to pretend it is, there would be a population and a competitive scene sorry to inform.

>

> > Spaghetti coding a mm to try to create "even" matches with spreads of up to and over 300 rating (entire divisions) but it's fine right? THAT'S balance.

>

> > Get a grip.

>

> If you have been banned, modded and had your posts removed it’s usually because you were being rude, I won’t deny there is some sweeping under the rug of some issues however on the whole the people that get modded are rude and childish. Then we have in game behaviour by many players in PvP is generally hostile, you see it with streamers too where if someone plays badly (because they’re 200 rating below everyone else/not as experienced) they get whispers, constant raging in team chat sometimes map chat and then what do they do? Block the people preventing any form of teamwork in the future just based on their performance. Great community of adults we have here.

>

> You yourself are laying a person for what? Explaining in a post factors affecting rating difference and matchmaking?

>

> Note: I am not saying you rage at and block people or behave in a rude way in game, just using your snarky post as context for pointing out other factors outside of ANets control which certainly affects player population

 

I have never once, nor will I ever complain about queue times. Yeah dude I'm totally aggro all the time no matter what and mods are saints. Please don't call me snarky or I'll report your post for breaking the forum rules <------ LITERALLY 90% of the people that use these forums.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > Would you prefer a longer queue for yourself during off hours?

> > > > >

> > > > > absolutely. WITHOUT QUESTION.

> > > >

> > > > I don’t think you appreciate how long these queues would be, we would be talking maybe an hour or longer.

> > >

> > > Better than completely arbitrary matches. I already delt with upwards of 20+ min queues before in this game and would be more than willing to do so again for even a semblance of an actual match.

> > >

> > > I am sick and tired of farming the noobs on the enemy team while the 1-2 (if that) good player(s) on enemy team does the same to mine. It's boring af. What's NOT boring however is right after an AT when games are comprised of 3-4 good players per team, which lasts all of maybe 2 rounds on NA.

> > >

> > > It does NOT feel good to beat higher ranked players than me because I farmed their scrubs "better" than they did mine, that limits player's class and build choice and straight up pushes people away from the game.

> > >

> > > Instead of bandaiding the MM, solve the population problem. Example being WC3, getting tons of new viewership, tournaments, updates including balance for a 15 year old RTS that was for all intents and purposes completely dead. Huge influx of new players because of it. Imagine that, when a game is properly supported people want to play it.

> >

> > You would literally be waiting for an **hour or more** to play with 75% of the people in the last game. You would be back here complaining at long queue times for stale matches with the same people over and over again.

> >

> > Yes the population is the issue, while ANet shoulder some of the burden of blame (snails pace balancing, creating unfun metas, classes having next to no role diversity) people like you likewise need to own up to how you are causing a population drop too, that’s in reference to the following:

> >

> > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said:

> > > Yeah tell me more dude, ive only been legend/plat3 every season on multiple accounts lmfao, clearly never played before nor do I know how conquest or the population works................................

> >

> > > These forums, and especially the forum mods are a grotesque joke. Remove more posts mods, anything that you dont agree with, infract and ban. ESPECIALLY if its true. lmfao.

> >

> > > If this game were as great as these "people" like to pretend it is, there would be a population and a competitive scene sorry to inform.

> >

> > > Spaghetti coding a mm to try to create "even" matches with spreads of up to and over 300 rating (entire divisions) but it's fine right? THAT'S balance.

> >

> > > Get a grip.

> >

> > If you have been banned, modded and had your posts removed it’s usually because you were being rude, I won’t deny there is some sweeping under the rug of some issues however on the whole the people that get modded are rude and childish. Then we have in game behaviour by many players in PvP is generally hostile, you see it with streamers too where if someone plays badly (because they’re 200 rating below everyone else/not as experienced) they get whispers, constant raging in team chat sometimes map chat and then what do they do? Block the people preventing any form of teamwork in the future just based on their performance. Great community of adults we have here.

> >

> > You yourself are laying a person for what? Explaining in a post factors affecting rating difference and matchmaking?

> >

> > Note: I am not saying you rage at and block people or behave in a rude way in game, just using your snarky post as context for pointing out other factors outside of ANets control which certainly affects player population

>

> I have never once, nor will I ever complain about queue times. Yeah dude I'm totally aggro all the time no matter what and mods are saints. Please don't call me snarky or I'll report your post for breaking the forum rules <------ LITERALLY 90% of the people that use these forums.

 

I know, I’ve seen that too where someone is overly sensitive and goes on a crusade to report as much as they can, however most of the time if you get moderated it is your own fault. Just as we need to accept that many people are very toxic and not helpful to fostering a PvP scene in the type of game GW2 is, family friendly, casual fun that you play on your time. Just watch any of the GW2 streams and their fan art.

[Bast.7253]

It would be nice to lose a match and not have the same people in the next 5 matches until mmr has decided your losing streak is over.

[Chum Chum.7234]

The poor match quality is bad enough, but the MMR loss mechanics make it so much worse. When matches are even with an equal number of plat players on each side and equal number of gold/silver filler. The plat players on the losing side lose MMR as if they lost to the gold/silver players rather than the plat players on the other side. That is what causes the +5 wins and -25 losses nonsense. No one should lose MMR while contributing over 25% of the teams statistical performance.

[voltaicbore.8012]

> @"Chum Chum.7234" said:

> That is what causes the +5 wins and -25 losses nonsense. No one should lose MMR while contributing over 25% of the teams statistical performance.

 

I've been an advocate of this for a long time. When you're sweeping top stats by a sizable margin it would alleviate the pain a little to lose less mmr for not being able to carry any harder.

 

 

[saerni.2584]

Too easy for some to manipulate.

 

But it does hurt when you lose with 60%+ of your team’s offensive score.

[Chum Chum.7234]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> Too easy for some to manipulate.

>

> But it does hurt when you lose with 60%+ of your team’s offensive score.

 

That is my main complaint. The highest rated player in the match can contribute the most to the match and subsequently lose the most MMR after a loss. The performance means nothing and the system consistently moves higher rated players towards the rating of the players in the queue at the time.

 

The 'if you're better than you'll win more matches' argument is invalid as there is usually a superstar on the other team as well trying to carry their poor performers. The only way to win consistenly is to duo queue with the other superstar until your ratings are too high to duo queue anymore...or the other way which shall not be named

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Chum Chum.7234" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > Too easy for some to manipulate.

> >

> > But it does hurt when you lose with 60%+ of your team’s offensive score.

>

> That is my main complaint. The highest rated player in the match can contribute the most to the match and subsequently lose the most MMR after a loss. The performance means nothing and the system consistently moves higher rated players towards the rating of the players in the queue at the time.

>

> The 'if you're better than you'll win more matches' argument is invalid as there is usually a superstar on the other team as well trying to carry their poor performers. The only way to win consistenly is to duo queue with the other superstar until your ratings are too high to duo queue anymore...or the other way which shall not be named

 

Well, if everyone on your team was good, you wouldn't have 60% of the stats would you? And if people were taking more of the stats the chances are pretty good they know how to do something useful in the game and contribute to a victory, thus if you don't own all the stats the odds are pretty good you'd win?

 

I don't see anything there that should be surprising to anyone, but if you're basically saying "It sucks I lost when I did all this stuff" well yeah it does but that's life, sometimes you do everything right and things still don't work out in your favor.

[Chum Chum.7234]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Chum Chum.7234" said:

> > > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > > Too easy for some to manipulate.

> > >

> > > But it does hurt when you lose with 60%+ of your team’s offensive score.

> >

> > That is my main complaint. The highest rated player in the match can contribute the most to the match and subsequently lose the most MMR after a loss. The performance means nothing and the system consistently moves higher rated players towards the rating of the players in the queue at the time.

> >

> > The 'if you're better than you'll win more matches' argument is invalid as there is usually a superstar on the other team as well trying to carry their poor performers. The only way to win consistenly is to duo queue with the other superstar until your ratings are too high to duo queue anymore...or the other way which shall not be named

>

> Well, if everyone on your team was good, you wouldn't have 60% of the stats would you? And if people were taking more of the stats the chances are pretty good they know how to do something useful in the game and contribute to a victory, thus if you don't own all the stats the odds are pretty good you'd win?

>

> I don't see anything there that should be surprising to anyone, but if you're basically saying "It sucks I lost when I did all this stuff" well yeah it does but that's life, sometimes you do everything right and things still don't work out in your favor.

 

Sure, that's life.

 

Let's use some logic to determine if MMR is an accurate measure of skill and i dividual performance though. Please let me know if any of my step or assumptuons about the system are wrong, as I don't know everything about the ANET system.

 

1- Observation- When trying to carry a bad team, you'll end up with more than average stats (greater than 20% of team contribution)

2- Logic - Based on logic step 1, we can assume better players tend to generate more stats.

3- Assumption - The system doesn't evaluate stats.

4- Observation - The system takes more MMR from the highest rated player on the losing side and gives more MMR to the lowest rated player on the winning side.

5- Logic - Observation 4 acts to move the highest rated players MMR closer to the bad players that they carried or failed to carry.

6- Logic - If you played a couple dozen games with the same bad team, logic step 5 dicates your MMR would move towards the other players and eventually you all would end up with the same or similar MMR

7- Logic - The outcome of logic step 6 happens despite the fact that you are by far the best player as known based on logic step 1 and 2.

8- Logic - Because logic step 7 is true despite actual skill and individual performance, MMR does not accurate represent individual skill or performance.