Dungeon rewards: raise possible?

[Ashantara.8731]

I understand that rewards for dungeons were initially decreased so that people would hop over to fractals instead (which had undergone massive changes at the same time that dungeons were abandoned by the devs and nerfed to give much less rewards).

 

But years have passed and fractal have a huge player base (as intended by the devs). So is there a chance we will ever see dungeons being rewarded properly again (if only in gold) for those who truly enjoy playing them?

[Linken.6345]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> I understand that rewards for dungeons were initially decreased so that people would hop over to fractals instead (which had undergone massive changes at the same time that dungeons were abandoned by the devs and nerfed to give much less rewards).

>

> But years have passed and fractal have a huge player base (as intended by the devs). So is there a chance we will ever see dungeons being rewarded properly again (if only in gold) for those who truly enjoy playing them?

 

They already did raise em back up with the extra tokens (once a day) and repeatable 8 dif dungeon paths you can do endlessly each day

[Malediktus.9250]

I think the current rewards are generous for their difficulty

[Battledoll.1803]

I think the rewards of doing dungeon is pretty good already: You get loots, half gold, EXP, and tokens per path. Completing 8 paths gives 5 gold and additional token of choice.

 

[Ojimaru.8970]

As mentioned above, the direct gold rewards for time spent in (many) Explorable Dungeon paths are already very good. Some Dungeon Tokens can also be monetized by salvaging the dungeon-specific equipment for their inscriptions and insignias.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> I understand that rewards for dungeons were initially decreased so that people would hop over to fractals instead (which had undergone massive changes at the same time that dungeons were abandoned by the devs and nerfed to give much less rewards).

>

> But years have passed and fractal have a huge player base (as intended by the devs). So is there a chance we will ever see dungeons being rewarded properly again (if only in gold) for those who truly enjoy playing them?

 

Dungeons already are "properly" rewarded. In fact, they offer more in net rewards than they did in the months and months before the nerf.

 

> [Khar the Charr's Dungeon Profits](https://redd.it/6y27f6)

> tl;dr version

>> * The most important part of dungeon profitability is: token rewards

>> * The most valuable way to turn tokens into gold is via trinket recipes (that will eventually drop for those who farm enough)

>> * Including tokens, dungeons are better than they used to be

 

> [Fractal Rares' Dungeon Profits](https://redd.it/6xxbt7)

> tl;dr version

>> * The average player (8 paths/day) lost around a measly 1g in liquid rewards, but gained twice as many tokens. (at LEAST 470)

>> * The experienced player (16 paths/day) lost anywhere from 2-7g in liquid rewards, but gained at least 790 tokens.

>> * The extreme minority of full clear runners (20 paths/day) lost 8g, and gained at least 1420 tokens

 

Besides that, ANet has no interest in making dungeons _more_ attractive. They want to keep them in maintenance mode. Higher rewards would drive more traffic, with more people expecting ANet to put _some_ attention into traditional dungeons. ANet isn't going to do that because the costs of that work far outweigh the benefits. More importantly, they can devote less effort to other game modes and get more out of it for more players.

 

In other words:

Dungeon rewards are already good; it's a myth that they are less than they were pre-HoT. They don't need to be improved for those playing them now

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Dungeons already are "properly" rewarded. In fact, they offer more in net rewards than they did in the months and months before the nerf.

 

I was told from people who used to run dungeons frequently pre-HoT that you used to get much more gold. However, I just looked it up and apparently they raised the dungeon currency reward?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Dungeons already are "properly" rewarded. In fact, they offer more in net rewards than they did in the months and months before the nerf.

>

> I was told from people who used to run dungeons frequently pre-HoT that you used to get much more gold. However, I just looked it up and apparently they raised the dungeon currency reward?

 

They raised the dungeon currency reward **and** the gold reward from the nerfed values, assuming you do 8 distinct paths.

 

As you well know, people sometimes say things based on personal experience and it turns out that (a) we're not all that good at remembering and (b) even when we are, we sometimes forget the context. Dungeon rewards have been changed several times in the game's history, including buffs & nerfs. The "encourage people to move to fractals" nerf took place around HoT's launch and, when the rest of HoT was rebalanced, ANet also re-buffed dungeons.

 

As the posts I linked above indicate, the total value of running 8 dungeon paths today is _higher_ than it was pre-nerf, taking into account the value of tokens (and even the decreased value of ecto). Given the fact that dungeons haven't become any harder as our builds become more powerful, I think it's fair to say that dungeons are "properly" rewarded.

 

There are many reasons that some people still think dungeon rewards are still anemic, including: we don't notice the tokens because they are mostly deposited directly to inventory (out of sight, out of mind), they aren't liquid gold, and the nerf got a lot of attention, while the buff was one of many less noticeable changes that took place at the same time.

 

 

 

[Talindra.4958]

I think dungeon reward reduced not just due to anet want ppl to move to fractal. I think it's bcos with the current specialization, dungeon runs become too easy. They said that there arent anymore update to dungeon so they can focus on other more important new contents deliveries. Without update to dungeon.. if reward is good, ppl will just farm it daily without need of new spec or build. Also it will be too easy for ppl that run current meta too which makes dungeon run a bit meaningless. In fractal, ppl run meta or new spec mostly..ppl still use vanilla prof in fractal but def not many in T4. And fractal is being updated from time to time.

 

If we want to encourage ppl to play more dungeon, I believe they really need to update it first then increase rewards.. new dungeon in new maps tie in with LS will be nice

[thrag.9740]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Dungeons already are "properly" rewarded. In fact, they offer more in net rewards than they did in the months and months before the nerf.

>

> I was told from people who used to run dungeons frequently pre-HoT that you used to get much more gold. However, I just looked it up and apparently they raised the dungeon currency reward?

 

That's correct, it is also true that you get less actual gold reward than you use to. Something like 1/2 to 1/3 I believe (don't quote me on that).

 

However, the real difference in rewards is that you use to be able to pug a competent group regularly and easily. You could post LFGs like, 'exp p123, need 1 thief, 1 ps', and you would actually get a warrior that could stack might, and a thief that could lay down smoke fields. Now you would get a condi dd that doesn't know how to do stealth, and a burnzerker or some other raid build that is terrible at dungeons. As a result, clearing dungeons is much slower, forming groups is much slower, and groups disband after 1 single path rather than a multi dungeon tour.

 

 

People complained about 'elitists' in dungeons for years, now they got their wish, they are all gone, and as a result dungeons are dead for casual players. If you have 4 friends who want to regularly clear with you and actually know what they are doing, dungeons are not so bad. But for casual pugging, they are completely decimated.

[Talindra.4958]

Yeah I kind of heard that the dungeon reward is better ... I hv never done the maths for it.. before I remember we can just run few diff dungeons or full clear for certain one and get pretty good gold.. now we need to complete the track or something? I just stop playing much dungeon these days since the changed the reward. Occasionally I will go back to do few with friends

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Dungeons are too easy and offer too much at this level of difficulty already.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Dungeons are too easy and offer too much at this level of difficulty already.

 

This. 5 lvl 80 players in zerk gear even without proper rotation can kill dungeon bosses before they have Time to use their mechanics

[Tyson.5160]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Dungeons are too easy and offer too much at this level of difficulty already.

>

> This. 5 lvl 80 players in zerk gear even without proper rotation can kill dungeon bosses before they have Time to use their mechanics

 

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Dungeons are too easy and offer too much at this level of difficulty already.

>

> This. 5 lvl 80 players in zerk gear even without proper rotation can kill dungeon bosses before they have Time to use their mechanics

 

Probably why people want the dungeons to get some love.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Dungeons are too easy and offer too much at this level of difficulty already.

> >

> > This. 5 lvl 80 players in zerk gear even without proper rotation can kill dungeon bosses before they have Time to use their mechanics

>

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Dungeons are too easy and offer too much at this level of difficulty already.

> >

> > This. 5 lvl 80 players in zerk gear even without proper rotation can kill dungeon bosses before they have Time to use their mechanics

>

> Probably why people want the dungeons to get some love.

 

Its a double edged sword. Many paths are meant for low lvl players. But they cant kill boss fast enough and mechanics will wipe them ^^ only way to make good, rewarding and harder dungeons is making them for lvl 80.

 

 

[Tyson.5160]

With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

 

New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

 

They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

>

> New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

>

> They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

 

Depends on what the carrot is.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

>

> New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

>

> They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

 

Except they _have_ been making level 80 dungeons all time time; we simply call them by another name: Fractals of the Mists.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

> >

> > New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

> >

> > They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

>

> Except they _have_ been making level 80 dungeons all time time; we simply call them by another name: Fractals of the Mists.

 

Fractals yes. But they arent dungeons^^

Fractals have different tiers, agony, no exotic armors with tokens, no story mode or paths.. do i need to continue?

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

> >

> > New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

> >

> > They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

>

> Except they _have_ been making level 80 dungeons all time time; we simply call them by another name: Fractals of the Mists.

 

Gotta remember that fractals used to be played in groups of 3 before you got to pick them. They are fast instances.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

> > >

> > > New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

> > >

> > > They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

> >

> > Except they _have_ been making level 80 dungeons all time time; we simply call them by another name: Fractals of the Mists.

>

> Fractals yes. But they arent dungeons^^

> Fractals have different tiers, agony, no exotic armors with tokens, no story mode or paths.. do i need to continue?

 

Do people even do the story or pay attention to the dialogue when doing dungeons though? It’s not like Anet couldn’t add **skippable** dialogue in future fractals to give a story element to them.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

> > > >

> > > > New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

> > > >

> > > > They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

> > >

> > > Except they _have_ been making level 80 dungeons all time time; we simply call them by another name: Fractals of the Mists.

> >

> > Fractals yes. But they arent dungeons^^

> > Fractals have different tiers, agony, no exotic armors with tokens, no story mode or paths.. do i need to continue?

>

> Do people even do the story or pay attention to the dialogue when doing dungeons though? It’s not like Anet couldn’t add **skippable** dialogue in future fractals to give a story element to them.

 

I meant story and expl mode. Fractals dont have that.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > > With how fast they you can level and all the instant boosts that might be an option.

> > > > >

> > > > > New lvl80 dungeons would be good add to this game. Old dungeons should remain there as they are, Even though they are too hard for lvl rec(like AC p1, 5 lvl35 guys just dont have needed dps for Burrows).

> > > > >

> > > > > They could lower The rewards and difficult from low lvl Dungeons so lowbies could actually play them and add more lvl80 dungeons. This on the other hand can Be just a waste of dev time.

> > > >

> > > > Except they _have_ been making level 80 dungeons all time time; we simply call them by another name: Fractals of the Mists.

> > >

> > > Fractals yes. But they arent dungeons^^

> > > Fractals have different tiers, agony, no exotic armors with tokens, no story mode or paths.. do i need to continue?

> >

> > Do people even do the story or pay attention to the dialogue when doing dungeons though? It’s not like Anet couldn’t add **skippable** dialogue in future fractals to give a story element to them.

>

> I meant story and expl mode. Fractals dont have that.

 

Story mode and explorable mode really are not any different from each other except for rewards.

[Tyson.5160]

Story is much easier.