Flag DPS-Meter user in the game

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> Article 5 -1 c -

>

> Personal data shall be:

> c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

>

> Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

>

 

How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

[lokh.2695]

Not reading the hundreds of posts before this, sry m8s...

 

If ANet had a DPS meter of their own in game, they would have more control over it and could give more control over it, and by extension the data, to the players. But since everyone and their grandma is using a 3rd Party program now, ANet has no incentive to invest ressources in coding an in-game DPS meter.

 

Same reasoning goes for the build templates: Why should ANet make them happen in-game when most of the ppl who thought it was missing have settled for 3rd party programs at this point anyway?

 

I don't use any 3rd party programs like template changers, tactical overlays or dps meters because I want ANet to implement this tech in their game on their own.

[Turin.6921]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > Article 5 -1 c -

> >

> > Personal data shall be:

> > c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

> >

> > Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

> >

>

> How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

> I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

 

You can. You can parse the PC processes client-side while the game is running meaning that the info is never sent anywhere and the monitoring program only sends a simple Y/N toggle on the specific cheater application. Whether you run the cheater application besides when playing GW2 is not relevant to Anet's business. That is how most online games do it.

[Menzo.2185]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> I hate my DPS being measured by others as much as reviving DPS-fixated people. I would like to exclude them from joining my parties as I like to stay away from their parties.

> With the hacker-ban wave ANet has shown that it can easily recognize such users of third-party software.

>

> I propose that DPS-Meter user are flagged as such easy visible in game, and that LFG-tool allows you to set a flag that keeps such people out from joining your party.

>

> Mainly I want a flag like on the google glasses: This person is recording my behavior and violating my privacy.

>

> Edit: Result of discussion:

>

> ANet should make an option in the setting that everyone can switch at any time:

> * transmit combat data to me as currently (in 2 min) and flag me (now)

> * transmit only anonymyzed combat data to me (as to enemies in WvW) and do not flag me. (default)

>

> This looks like a quite perfect solution for that situation.

> * Everyone that want to measure only it's own DPS can do so unmarked.

> * There is no process monitor running anywhere.

> * You even have the possibility to see other peoples DPS, but to do so you have to flag yourself.

 

I love to know where I am in my rotation. Please FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ARCDPS meter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nia.4725]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > Article 5 -1 c -

> > >

> > > Personal data shall be:

> > > c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

> > >

> > > Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

> > >

> >

> > How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

> > I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

>

> You can. You can parse the PC processes client-side while the game is running meaning that the info is never sent anywhere and the monitoring program only sends a simple Y/N toggle on the specific cheater application. Whether you run the cheater application besides when playing GW2 is not relevant to Anet's business. That is how most online games do it.

 

In fact some reddit users found how anet managed the banware. Firstly one user thought the "spyware" sent a list of all programs, but another user found some code that apparently did some filtering.

 

_Thanks for doing the heavy lifting in the Reverse Engineering, I gave it a look and my findings are almost like yours. I do however have a function that I think is only adding the blacklisted MD5s and not just sending all home. Here is my RE results (so far): https://hardingonline.se/gw2_spyware/_

 

The general post:

The comment about the filter:

dxgz47x/

[Turin.6921]

> @"nia.4725" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > Article 5 -1 c -

> > > >

> > > > Personal data shall be:

> > > > c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

> > > >

> > > > Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

> > > >

> > >

> > > How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

> > > I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

> >

> > You can. You can parse the PC processes client-side while the game is running meaning that the info is never sent anywhere and the monitoring program only sends a simple Y/N toggle on the specific cheater application. Whether you run the cheater application besides when playing GW2 is not relevant to Anet's business. That is how most online games do it.

>

> In fact some reddit users found how anet managed the banware. Firstly one user thought the "spyware" sent a list of all programs, but another user found some code that apparently did some filtering.

>

> _Thanks for doing the heavy lifting in the Reverse Engineering, I gave it a look and my findings are almost like yours. I do however have a function that I think is only adding the blacklisted MD5s and not just sending all home. Here is my RE results (so far): https://hardingonline.se/gw2_spyware/_

>

> The general post:

> The comment about the filter:

dxgz47x/

 

Yeah i saw that. It a bit inconclusive but looks that it at least did some client-side filtering. The only actual issue the monitoring program had was the bad encryption. Companies are also obliged to keep the data safe when stored and transfered. And that was lacking since the ppl that did the reverse engineering managed to decrypt them relatively easily.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"nia.4725" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > Article 5 -1 c -

> > > >

> > > > Personal data shall be:

> > > > c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

> > > >

> > > > Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

> > > >

> > >

> > > How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

> > > I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

> >

> > You can. You can parse the PC processes client-side while the game is running meaning that the info is never sent anywhere and the monitoring program only sends a simple Y/N toggle on the specific cheater application. Whether you run the cheater application besides when playing GW2 is not relevant to Anet's business. That is how most online games do it.

>

> In fact some reddit users found how anet managed the banware. Firstly one user thought the "spyware" sent a list of all programs, but another user found some code that apparently did some filtering.

>

> _Thanks for doing the heavy lifting in the Reverse Engineering, I gave it a look and my findings are almost like yours. I do however have a function that I think is only adding the blacklisted MD5s and not just sending all home. Here is my RE results (so far): https://hardingonline.se/gw2_spyware/_

>

> The general post:

> The comment about the filter:

dxgz47x/

 

So did they spy ore not better make it Clear

So people can move on

[Turin.6921]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > > Article 5 -1 c -

> > > > >

> > > > > Personal data shall be:

> > > > > c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

> > > > >

> > > > > Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

> > > > I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

> > >

> > > You can. You can parse the PC processes client-side while the game is running meaning that the info is never sent anywhere and the monitoring program only sends a simple Y/N toggle on the specific cheater application. Whether you run the cheater application besides when playing GW2 is not relevant to Anet's business. That is how most online games do it.

> >

> > In fact some reddit users found how anet managed the banware. Firstly one user thought the "spyware" sent a list of all programs, but another user found some code that apparently did some filtering.

> >

> > _Thanks for doing the heavy lifting in the Reverse Engineering, I gave it a look and my findings are almost like yours. I do however have a function that I think is only adding the blacklisted MD5s and not just sending all home. Here is my RE results (so far): https://hardingonline.se/gw2_spyware/_

> >

> > The general post:

> > The comment about the filter:

dxgz47x/

>

> So did they spy ore not better make it Clear

> So people can move on

 

All these programs are spyware. Just sometimes and if the data collected are minimal and reasonable they are not illegal and can be justified.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> All these programs are spywere. Just sometimes and if the data collected are minimal and reasonable they are not illegal and can be justified.

 

You heard it here first folks. The windows API is spyware!

 

I can't even .... some people will grasp for at any straws they can.

They scanned filtered and matched processes, a simple yes/no was returned and if it was yes the applicable programs hash was as well then you were banned. There's nothing in a hash that's personal identifying data so no yet again nothing violated the GDPR.

 

So can we stop with this nonsense ?

[Turin.6921]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > All these programs are spywere. Just sometimes and if the data collected are minimal and reasonable they are not illegal and can be justified.

>

> You heard it here first folks. The windows API is spyware!

>

> I can't even .... some people will grasp for at any straws they can.

> They scanned filtered and matched processes, a simple yes/no was returned and if it was yes the applicable programs hash was as well then you were banned. There's nothing in a hash that's personal identifying data so no yet again nothing violated the GDPR.

>

> So can we stop with this nonsense ?

 

A program and the API that the said program might employ are not the same things. And i am not sure why you are triggered by the word spyware. Not all spyware are illegal or privacy violating.

Do you have Anet stock or sth? Cause your obsession to defend the company on things none is actually accusing them of is weird.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > All these programs are spywere. Just sometimes and if the data collected are minimal and reasonable they are not illegal and can be justified.

> >

> > You heard it here first folks. The windows API is spyware!

> >

> > I can't even .... some people will grasp for at any straws they can.

> > They scanned filtered and matched processes, a simple yes/no was returned and if it was yes the applicable programs hash was as well then you were banned. There's nothing in a hash that's personal identifying data so no yet again nothing violated the GDPR.

> >

> > So can we stop with this nonsense ?

>

> A program and the API that the said program might employ are not the same things. And i am not sure why you are triggered by the word spyware. Not all spyware are illegal or privacy violating.

> Do you have Anet stock or sth? Cause your obsession to defend the company on things none is actually accusing them of is weird.

 

Spyware as the term is used is always associated with malicious intent. It means that someone unlawfully accessed some they had no reason to normally have. In this case you all were informed this could happen this means it's no longer spyware but it's data tracking.

 

Why this matters is because you all keep trying to discredit the company and their methods without actually understanding what's going on and it's quite infuriating to see under-informed users trying to state they know and understand when they are in fact doing the exact opposite. Instead all you're doing is misusing terms to create panic akin to crying wolf or pulling fire alarms in an office building for no reason.

 

Also, no i don't have stock in the company.

[Turin.6921]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> Why this matters is because you all keep trying to discredit the company and their methods without actually understanding what's going on and it's quite infuriating to see under-informed users trying to state they know and understand when they are in fact doing the exact opposite. Instead all you're doing is misusing terms to create panic akin to crying wolf or pulling fire alarms in an office building for no reason.

 

I am sorry mate. None is trying to discredit anyone, no accusation have been made towards what Anet did (except the fact that the need to improve their encryption) or cause any fear. Your frustration is self-inflicted and you are imagining things that were never said.

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > Why this matters is because you all keep trying to discredit the company and their methods without actually understanding what's going on and it's quite infuriating to see under-informed users trying to state they know and understand when they are in fact doing the exact opposite. Instead all you're doing is misusing terms to create panic akin to crying wolf or pulling fire alarms in an office building for no reason.

>

> I am sorry mate. None is trying to discredit anyone, no accusation have been made towards what Anet did (except the fact that the need to improve their encryption) or cause any fear. Your frustration is self-inflicted and you are imagining things that were never said.

>

 

Really now ?

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> All these programs are spyware.

Not trying to undermine the integrity of the company by intentionally using loaded language and misconstruing the actions now are you ?

That's not the only time you've called their actions spyware in this thread alone. It's not spyware


 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > All these programs are spywere. Just sometimes and if the data collected are minimal and reasonable they are not illegal and can be justified.

>

> You heard it here first folks. The windows API is spyware!

>

> I can't even .... some people will grasp for at any straws they can.

> They scanned filtered and matched processes, a simple yes/no was returned and if it was yes the applicable programs hash was as well then you were banned. There's nothing in a hash that's personal identifying data so no yet again nothing violated the GDPR.

>

> So can we stop with this nonsense ?

 

Reality dont matter its how ppl feel wich does

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> A simple tool that's either causing exclusion of other players (in a social game as some of you like to put it), and/or toxic behavior will inevitably cause the tool to be unsupported and thus banned.

 

ANet knows that the "simple tool" is not _causing_ either exclusion or "toxicity." Players who exclude or are rude are behaving exactly as they would with or without the tool. Players who feel hard done by see that meter data is being cited as the excuse for the exclusion. Thus, they blame the tool for the behavior instead of the player actually performing the action.

 

For ANet to prevent exclusion behavior in random groups, they would have to be very draconian in how random grouping works. To prevent exclusion, there would have to be consequences for kicking that players would want to avoid. These consequences would have to affect anyone who kicks, not just people who kick for performance. Imagine kicking someone for being rude and then finding you cannot group for 24 hours, or something similar.

 

ANet already has a feature to discourage rudeness and hard feelings over words exchanged in chat. The report function can lead to consequences for the rude player after the fact. ANet could also do what they did to deal with the Queensdale Champ Train rudeness and other farms. They removed the reasons for players to play that content.

 

Some people seem to think that the solution to exclusion and rudeness is simple. It isn't. If it was, ANet would have dealt with it by now.

 

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> I wonder why you do not like the flag. It can be seen as a kind of title: I am always optimizing myself and my surroundings!

> I should help you to fill the party with the right people.

>

> I also helps all others to stay away from performance pressure they don't like.

>

> Why this opposition against this helpful separation of two groups of people that do not fit together?

>

> Is it really that it is your main interest to spy and judge secretly?

 

People tend to take the easy route to what they want. This should resonate with you, because the easy route for you is what your suggestion is about.

 

+ Before meters, the easy route was to use KP, LI, titles, AP, profession, and other means to select for compatible group members.

+ With meter and no flag, the easy route is to accept anyone who is not running something which is undesirable and which is immediately obvious.

+ With a flag, the easy route will be to select based on the presence or absence of the flag. No meter flag? Goodbye.

 

Maybe the reason people are against your flag is that it would be easier for them to _not exclude_ people who don't meter but whose performance is adequate, whereas dropping anyone not flagged would mean longer group formation times. It may be a happy accident that the "meter but no flag" iteration is also more beneficial to more players who don't meter.

 

Or, perhaps the principle behind the opposition to your idea is, "The greatest good for the greatest number." rather than, "I want to spy on others."

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > The tool is not being used on you.

>

> It was used 8 days ago to discuss the spike damage of necros in the WvW-Squad (fortunately I was rev but it was the worst thing I heard so far in 5 years WvW) in Teamspeak by the Commy and his guild mates.

>

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > It dont take any data from you but that your client already sent to server

>

> That’s what I want to change.

 

So you agree that it was not used on you (or any given individual) then.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > Article 5 -1 c -

> > >

> > > Personal data shall be:

> > > c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

> > >

> > > Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

> > >

> >

> > How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

> > I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

>

> You can. You can parse the PC processes client-side while the game is running meaning that the info is never sent anywhere and the monitoring program only sends a simple Y/N toggle on the specific cheater application. Whether you run the cheater application besides when playing GW2 is not relevant to Anet's business. That is how most online games do it.

Yes, indeed you can do it that way. This has however a significant downside. You either can check only for specific cheat programs you already know of (which is what Anet did in this case), but then you will always miss people using custom programs (or less popular ones you forgot about), or you run a heuristic scanner, which would probably be a massive resource hog (if it existed, as far as i know no AV program checks for game cheats, and scanning engines made for this simply don't exist yet).

 

 

[Turin.6921]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > Article 5 -1 c -

> > > >

> > > > Personal data shall be:

> > > > c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

> > > >

> > > > Anet knowing if i use one of the cheater programs and string it is absolutely fine. Knowing all my processes i run on my PC storing that information on the server violates the data minimization principle.

> > > >

> > >

> > > How can they know if you use a cheater program without knowing all the processes that run on your PC? Also, how would they check them if they don't send them to the server? They can't exactly join your computer and do the reading there. I assume once the process was done they deleted that data and no longer have it stored anywhere.

> > > I can see why storing them after they served their purpose could be problematic, but it would also be highly inefficient use of space if they keep the data stored.

> >

> > You can. You can parse the PC processes client-side while the game is running meaning that the info is never sent anywhere and the monitoring program only sends a simple Y/N toggle on the specific cheater application. Whether you run the cheater application besides when playing GW2 is not relevant to Anet's business. That is how most online games do it.

> Yes, indeed you can do it that way. This has however a significant downside. You either can check only for specific cheat programs you already know of (which is what Anet did in this case), but then you will always miss people using custom programs (or less popular ones you forgot about), or you run a heuristic scanner, which would probably be a massive resource hog (if it existed, as far as i know no AV program checks for game cheats, and scanning engines made for this simply don't exist yet).

>

>

 

Probably True. But in the end of the day most cheaters will get caught as most will be using the more popular applications. I do not think it would worth the effort, local machine resources or any privacy implications (by collecting more data) to catch 100% of everyone using cheat programs. I think the way they did it caught enough ppl to keep the game in balance and keep the sense of fairness reasonably intact. Its probably a lost cause tp try and do more than that.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Exatherion.3075" said:

> As Commander I often see how people are trying to use that feature, without thinking about what the numbers actually mean. I personally tell my squads not to use that feature(I play daily at least 3 hours as Commander).

>

> Those numbers have no connection to the reality. When i played Anarchy-Online; you could measure all kind of things with the Damage Dumper. But we knew that DPS wasn't everything. I've a lot people doing things that support the squad, just like sending invites to people in the Open-World etc.

>

> It feels like you're supposed to play your character with high dps. I personally don't support that kind of behaviour where people discard half the game in favor of some more dps. I agree that there are things like raids where it makes sense. But I think that a DPS tool shouldn't be used to force ones own opinion how the game should be played on others. I talked often with less experienced players about that issue. They feel like it's a kinda forced on them. I personally had since release a heal/toughness armor on my Guardian. I survived everything, could rezz and so on. When i started playing raids with a guild years I experienced the same - I couldn't play the way I felt best anymore. PoF with the Firebrand changed that - I could heal, dps and even protect others and buff them. That made the gameplay feel great again. Same goes for the Holosmith - a very balanced combination.

>

> When the game was released we had a very friendly and helpfull community. Nowadays as the game developed rezzing doesn't get you any participation in events - therefore you're sanctioned for not doing damage to the NPCs. I want everyone in my squad to rezz and to be helpfull. DPS isn't everything. Since PoF there's much more DPS in my groups. DPS is in contrast to post HoT no issue anymore. The problem is, that some classes have no real support. Some Professions cannot support the group as well as others. I love the Firebrand, he does everything you MMO-Manifesto promised. He broke the "Holy-Trinity" and is my favorite. Firebrand is perfect for a Commander.

>

> I think that the topic is a bigger issue than the whole DPS-Meter thing. If I heal I get no loot, if I rezz I get no loot, if I do dps I get everything even though I might die - but who cares if it dies/finishes I still get loot. Those little things shape people behaviour. That's what I personally tell myself everytime from the perspective as developer.

 

Fun Fact Arc takes in every bit of Combat data from the encounter, from who heals, Rezzes, Boon Output etc. it’s more than a DPS meter it is a Combat meter and it tells so much relevant information.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > > > > All of the above would have been avoided if dps meter, no matter 3rd party or built in, was opt-in.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is opt-in. You don't want your dps checked? You don't join the party.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A 3rd party toy from a person unrelated to Anet, not being a part of User Agreement and for whom and which Anet takes no responsibility for, should never be a gate for in-game content I paid for. Combat data is visible and public, okay, but ArcDPS is not part of the game and opt-in option for this tool should be required by default, not the other way around.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You did not pay to be in someone else's party.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is completely opt in. You have to choose to put yourself in a situation where a dps meter can read your dps.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is not, because dps meter is not part of the game and me playing content I paid for doesn't mean I by default agree for people to use this tool on me.

> > > >

> > > > The tool is not being used on you.

> > > >

> > > > You didnt pay to be part of someone else's group.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I see you are confused about my position on this. I don't want myself a free pass into groups. I want clear communication and reasonable, fair rules that respect all the customers. DPS meter in current form and implementation are not parts of the game and there is no reason to automatically assume anyone is using them. I want Anet to require an opt-in function from DPS meter dev. This way groups will need to communicate - share your dps meter values if you want to play with us. BGDM worked like this. There is nothing people like you are losing if this happens because you are still allowed to segregate people however you want. The only difference would be the requirement of actual communication instead of empty assumptions. Current dps meter policy is easy to manage and cheap for anet because they removed any responsibility from themselves while creating a problem for the community. I want them to take minimal responsibility in form of policing the opt-in requirement for 3rd party dps meter.

> >

> > Seems like an exercise in futility though. Why make it more complicated to achieve basically the same result? Players are already segregated, so this only affects a handful of people who are oversensitive and/or try to play in groups they don't really belong.

>

> It would encourage proper and clear communication in groups instead of empty assumptions and bullying that's happening now. All that is required from Anet is to demand this from ArcDPS dev to apply opt in function for Arc. It's 3rd party dev so its irrelevant for them how he's going to accomplish it for as long as his tool is compliant with rules.

>

> Simple thing to change policy that would make community healthier at the end.

 

You opt in whenever you consent to join a party fun fact Dps Meters are completely opt in, and they don’t even have to be opt in since Combat Data is public group data

[CedarDog.9723]

Hmmm, instead of trying to impose EU regulations/law/whatever is happening on all regions including those outside of the EU...the OP should ask ANet to do the following:

 

1) Ban use of DPS meters on ANet EU clients.

2) Institute region flagging via IP geomaps.

3) Lock anyone with an IP located anywhere in the EU to the EU servers.

4) Remove anyone with an EU flag from NA servers.

5) Create forums for the various geographical regions.

6) Make the EU forums not display account names.

7) Lock forums access by region.

8) Remove anyone from the NA forums who has the EU region flag.

9) Ban and delete accounts of anyone found trying to circumvent the region lock.

 

"Privacy" is preserved.

[Kas.3509]

I don't really get it. I mean... why would you want to hide your dps?

It sounds like you want to troll or you are a bad player on purpose and you are angry other players have a way of seeing this.

Why would you want to hide if youre helping the team?

 

If the team is succeeding no on normal person is going to kick you even if your dps is low.

If the team is failing and your dps is low, normal and nice people will try to help you to get better, eventually ask you to leave because they're in hurry and give you some advices. You should want advice how to be more useful to the team right? Everyone in the team should try to be the best they can to help others.

If they are kicking you for being bad without a word you wouldn't want to be friends with people like that anyway so there's no loss.

 

Sadly there is no real way to change all of that besides asking peeple to not use meters when you create a party and hoping they'll listen. If some rude people don't liste you can't really do something about it, just like irl. If something is not a crime and you don't like it, you still can't stop people from doing that.

No one looks at dps meters outside of raids anyway.

And honestly most commanders will take people with less dps, but people who fail less, help to ressurect others and are open to suggestions over people with best dps.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Kas.3509" said:

> I don't really get it. I mean... why would you want to hide your dps?

> It sounds like you want to troll or you are a bad player on purpose and you are angry other players have a way of seeing this.

> Why would you want to hide if youre helping the team?

 

I'll explain it simply: just because *I* don't have a problem with my DPS doesn't mean *other* people won't have a problem with my DPS. Though I have been kicked for having "low DPS" before, I've never been kicked for failing before.

 

There's two ideologies of play at war here. The hardcore aside that sees spots on their team as debt to be paid. They see their peak performance as something they are owed, their time is portioned and valued, the digital gold as worthwhile. Anything less than perfection is stealing their time, so it is a crime that must be punished. Because, after all, games are serious business.

 

The casual side sees cooperation and play as charity. The value is in playing the game itself, and not in earning gold or beating things as fast as possible. Hell, some of them don't even care about winning. Reciprocity in personal enjoyment is key for them, so they've decided not to sweat the small stuff or even bother with meta. After all, you don't need to be anywhere near the meta to beat content, so why stress out over it?

 

These two types of players are in a perpetual cultural war in this game. The casuals are fine with anything, but the hardcore are only fine with other hardcores. Because of this, the hardcore are constantly trying to exclude, insult, and demonize casuals, often using rhetoric that only makes sense from the hardcore perspective. One of the tools they do this with... is the DPS meter. Without it, the casual can avoid those "15k AP no necro" teams, and then they only have to be good enough. But with meters, the casual is under regular assault from seemingly random players for not doing _well enough,_ and there is no warning for where these players will be.

[Voltekka.2375]

And here we go, folks! The topic HAD to end up mentioning the... "Spyware"! What a time to be alive

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Kas.3509" said:

> > I don't really get it. I mean... why would you want to hide your dps?

> > It sounds like you want to troll or you are a bad player on purpose and you are angry other players have a way of seeing this.

> > Why would you want to hide if youre helping the team?

>

> I'll explain it simply: just because *I* don't have a problem with my DPS doesn't mean *other* people won't have a problem with my DPS. Though I have been kicked for having "low DPS" before, I've never been kicked for failing before.

>

> There's two ideologies of play at war here. The hardcore aside that sees spots on their team as debt to be paid. They see their peak performance as something they are owed, their time is portioned and valued, the digital gold as worthwhile. Anything less than perfection is stealing their time, so it is a crime that must be punished. Because, after all, games are serious business.

>

> The casual side sees cooperation and play as charity. The value is in playing the game itself, and not in earning gold or beating things as fast as possible. Hell, some of them don't even care about winning. Reciprocity in personal enjoyment is key for them, so they've decided not to sweat the small stuff or even bother with meta. After all, you don't need to be anywhere near the meta to beat content, so why stress out over it?

>

> These two types of players are in a perpetual cultural war in this game. The casuals are fine with anything, but the hardcore are only fine with other hardcores. Because of this, the hardcore are constantly trying to exclude, insult, and demonize casuals, often using rhetoric that only makes sense from the hardcore perspective. One of the tools they do this with... is the DPS meter. Without it, the casual can avoid those "15k AP no necro" teams, and then they only have to be good enough. But with meters, the casual is under regular assault from seemingly random players for not doing _well enough,_ and there is no warning for where these players will be.

 

Well, this is both new and exciting as well as completely unbiased. Thank you!

 

The casuals are not "fine with anything". Just look at this thread and others like it. Toxicity is quite clearly a two-way street, with both sides believing they're in the right. Meanwhile, solo players like myself who don't have any issues with groups, yet use DPS meters get to have all sorts of stupid assumptions made about them in thread after thread by rabid casuals who think that because some hardcores are jerks it justifies doing the same to anyone who uses a DPS meter.

 

Yeah, thanks but no, thanks! I'll keep my DPS meter and you can just deal with the fact that some people are jerks and move on already.