JayAction.9056 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > Can we stop using "it has an obvious tell" as an argument???? > > > > > > > > > > > > Every skill in this game has an "obvious tell" if you know what to look for. > > > > > > > > > > > > Full counter is ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.0 damage coefficient on a skill that is: > > > > > > -Aoe Daze > > > > > > -Aoe moveable block > > > > > > -Self Stability > > > > > > -Evade > > > > > > -100% Damage reduction > > > > > > > > > > > > Has ability to also: > > > > > > **-Transfer 5 conditions to target and grant resistance with a damage boost** > > > > > > > > > > > > It's basically a 1.5 second invuln every 12 seconds (used to be 8). > > > > > > > > > > > > The handful of good warriors in this game are immortal in everything except a 1v3 because you can avoid near all damage cycling this crap with GS #3, Shield Block, Double Endure Pain, **Dodge Key**( bold because everybody forgets this exists), & balanced stance. Then they don't even have down time to cast a heal skill (heal signet lmfao) and it's just stupid. > > > > > > > > > > > > **Pro Tip: Scream full counter out loud every time you press it for maximum effectiveness.** > > > > > > > > > > ...So you just went into PvE and copied the skill I see.. > > > > > > > > > > Cause most of what you listed is the PvE version. > > > > > > > > > > Also, doesn't Dragon Hunter also have Unblockable CC's? > > > > > > > > No all of that is available in the PvP version... except maybe the damage coefficient... > > > > > > > > Everything else still stands 100% > > > > > > . . . . > > > No, you are in fact wrong. Mainly on the condi part and damage coefficient. > > > You also left out quite a bit, and lumped things in without really knowing how it works. > > > For example- Do you know when and why there is evasion on this skill? > > > > Straw man argument dude. > > > > Everything I said is true. ok 3 condis instead of 5. > > > > It still basically a 1.5 second invuln on 12 second CD, and if you know how to count and press you keys effectively you can go ludicrous amounts of time not taking any damage chaining this skill with others. And before you ask me why have I not done this myself, I have... > > > > Hear my advice for you; just scream full counter out loud when you press it and maybe you will top 10. That's your problem. > > It's not really straw man if you present a skill incorrectly and use that MISINFORMATION as justification for your argument. > You presented misinformation, I called you on it. > That simple. > This skill copies 3 condies- has a 1.5 damage coefficient ( and only buffed higher through trait investment..like almost every other class does for skills they want to deal damage) > and gives you evade frames at the end for .5 seconds while your character throws its arms around screaming on of the horribly cringe worthy catchphrases. > > Also- I find it really hard to believe you did anything with a warrior, if I am having to correct you on common knowledge about the skill and it's interactions (namely the significant nerfs that toned it down substantially),especially when some of these skill nerfs have been in game since November . . . . > > At least you got the rest right? " I find it really hard to believe you did anything with a warrior, if I am having to correct you on common knowledge about the skill and it's interactions (namely the significant nerfs that toned it down substantially),especially when some of these skill nerfs have been in game since November . . . ." I main Rev now. I mained warr pre HOT and 1v2 people on it until it was stupid weak in season 1. My bad, I don't constantly remember all the **_minor _**nerfs that happened to the skill Without playing warr in 2 years, I pick it up and immediately perform just as good as I do Rev (much harder to do anything with). Listen just take my advice bro; **just scream full counter out loud when you press it and maybe you will top 10. That's your problem.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > > > > Can we stop using "it has an obvious tell" as an argument???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every skill in this game has an "obvious tell" if you know what to look for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Full counter is ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.0 damage coefficient on a skill that is: > > > > > > > -Aoe Daze > > > > > > > -Aoe moveable block > > > > > > > -Self Stability > > > > > > > -Evade > > > > > > > -100% Damage reduction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has ability to also: > > > > > > > **-Transfer 5 conditions to target and grant resistance with a damage boost** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's basically a 1.5 second invuln every 12 seconds (used to be 8). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The handful of good warriors in this game are immortal in everything except a 1v3 because you can avoid near all damage cycling this crap with GS #3, Shield Block, Double Endure Pain, **Dodge Key**( bold because everybody forgets this exists), & balanced stance. Then they don't even have down time to cast a heal skill (heal signet lmfao) and it's just stupid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Pro Tip: Scream full counter out loud every time you press it for maximum effectiveness.** > > > > > > > > > > > > ...So you just went into PvE and copied the skill I see.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cause most of what you listed is the PvE version. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, doesn't Dragon Hunter also have Unblockable CC's? > > > > > > > > > > No all of that is available in the PvP version... except maybe the damage coefficient... > > > > > > > > > > Everything else still stands 100% > > > > > > > > . . . . > > > > No, you are in fact wrong. Mainly on the condi part and damage coefficient. > > > > You also left out quite a bit, and lumped things in without really knowing how it works. > > > > For example- Do you know when and why there is evasion on this skill? > > > > > > Straw man argument dude. > > > > > > Everything I said is true. ok 3 condis instead of 5. > > > > > > It still basically a 1.5 second invuln on 12 second CD, and if you know how to count and press you keys effectively you can go ludicrous amounts of time not taking any damage chaining this skill with others. And before you ask me why have I not done this myself, I have... > > > > > > Hear my advice for you; just scream full counter out loud when you press it and maybe you will top 10. That's your problem. > > > > It's not really straw man if you present a skill incorrectly and use that MISINFORMATION as justification for your argument. > > You presented misinformation, I called you on it. > > That simple. > > This skill copies 3 condies- has a 1.5 damage coefficient ( and only buffed higher through trait investment..like almost every other class does for skills they want to deal damage) > > and gives you evade frames at the end for .5 seconds while your character throws its arms around screaming on of the horribly cringe worthy catchphrases. > > > > Also- I find it really hard to believe you did anything with a warrior, if I am having to correct you on common knowledge about the skill and it's interactions (namely the significant nerfs that toned it down substantially),especially when some of these skill nerfs have been in game since November . . . . > > > > At least you got the rest right? > > " I find it really hard to believe you did anything with a warrior, if I am having to correct you on common knowledge about the skill and it's interactions (namely the significant nerfs that toned it down substantially),especially when some of these skill nerfs have been in game since November . . . ." > > I main Rev now. I mained warr pre HOT and 1v2 people on it until it was stupid weak in season 1. My bad, I don't constantly remember all the **_minor _**nerfs that happened to the skill > That's fair- but you should do research on the skill next time first.. > > Listen just take my advice bro; > **_just scream full counter out loud when you press it and maybe you will top 10. That's your problem._** No I refuse! Mesmer main for life > _ < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtoPScrub.5476 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Full counter isn't the problem - rousing resilience is. Fighting a warrior on a power spec without being able to use CC allows him to train the shit out of you and you're simply not going to win that facetank matchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kageseigi.2150 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > And no skill should be a block, a daze, copy 3 condis, has a 300 aoe, deal damage and be on a kitten 12 sec CD. Hmm, can Basilisk Venom get a 12 second CD or any of the above? It is an elite utility, after all. I'd be happy to get rid of the venom share... especially since the stun doesn't stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlie.7641 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 > @"Kageseigi.2150" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > And no skill should be a block, a daze, copy 3 condis, has a 300 aoe, deal damage and be on a kitten 12 sec CD. > > Hmm, can Basilisk Venom get a 12 second CD or any of the above? It is an elite utility, after all. I'd be happy to get rid of the venom share... especially since the stun doesn't stack. i would settle for the stability / reflect on dagger storm to be instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 > @"ButterPeanut.9746" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"ButterPeanut.9746" said: > > > One other piece that others haven't mentioned is that FC really only hits hard if: > > > 1. It crits > > > 2. You have high stacks of Attacker's Insight. > > > > > > So even if you do end up procing full counter, its damage can be minimized by avoiding other key warrior attacks, such as the GS F1 for fury and the dagger F1/#3/#4 for boon rip (which gives attacker's insight). > > > > > > Easier said than done in team fights, but the in a smaller fight scenario you can still outplay the warrior by avoiding certain abilities other than FC (if you struggle to bait out FC) > > > > The unblockable daze, which has heavy synergy with the rest of the spellbreaker line, is the issue, not the damage. Its a fundamentally broken design that up to 5 people can get hit with an unblockable daze because any of the following reasons: > > > > * Another player messed up and hit FC > > * There was an pulsing AoE on the ground (literally nothing we can do to stop the SB from just walking into it) > > * There was any AI class in the fight (1/3 of all classes mind you) > > > > The daze should only affect the person that procs FC > > > > @"Odik.4587" A defender can be summoned 6 times back to back currently, its not exactly comparable to FC. > > Agreed there are other parts of FC that make it strong...but the post was about the damage itself, so that is what I commented on. That's fair. Too often though in discussions about FC I see warrior mains get hung up on the damage aspect and insist that the skill is fine as it is, so I always like to point out that the damage is definitely not the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Full counter is perfectly fine. If any one aspect of Spellbreaker needs to be looked at its their ability to endlessly stall out a fight all game long like we saw in the mist champions tounament. Spellbreakers should be sustaining for a while but a Spellbreaker vs spellbreaker should eventually have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutaatti.2789 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 > @"Conscript.3657" said: > > @"Arkantos.7460" said: > > and if your not attacking war, he simply heal itself ... gg reward for mindless gameplay > > Yes he will heal for a total of around 600 health during that time. I'm sure 1 auto attack from you after Full Counter wears off will fix that How about we make a little tweak: it doesnt give you stability and heal, if it hits only illusions or pets? So you only have to dodge FC and you're off the hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Full Counter is supposed to be punishing. It’s not called “Bouncy Puppies Give Some Luvs.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 > @"Brother.1504" said: > Full Counter is supposed to be punishing. It’s not called “Bouncy Puppies Give Some Luvs.” On that note can we please nerf ranger's Bouncy Puppies Give Some Luvs skill? It hits way to hard on druid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vova.2640 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Vova.2640" said: > > I couple nights ago in wvw, I used a meteor shower into an enemy zerg and got hit for 11k with full counter. > > Fun stuff. > > Let it be forever enshrined in this thread that a staff elementalist casted a three second attack into a zerg in wvw, close enough to himself that he could be crit by a warrior using full counter. > > You were already dead my guy. Warrior or not. > ??? It was basically a max range meteor shower on top of an enemy zerg to pressure downs. I don't even know where the warrior was all I know is I got insta-down, looked into my combat log and I see an 11k full counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLind.6278 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Even if the skill did 3k dmg max on crits people would still complain about it because they're too stupid to either a) not attack into it or b) not dodge after they trigger it. If your teammates are triggering FC in a teamfight, no excuse, a warrior can't reliably outsustain burst damage in a teamfight, only only has EP to prevent being destroyed. If a warrior is turning the tide of a teamfight, he's likely better than you, regardless of whether FC hits or not. Virtually all of a warrior's strengths revolve around dueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"ButterPeanut.9746" said: > > One other piece that others haven't mentioned is that FC really only hits hard if: > > 1. It crits > > 2. You have high stacks of Attacker's Insight. > > > > So even if you do end up procing full counter, its damage can be minimized by avoiding other key warrior attacks, such as the GS F1 for fury and the dagger F1/#3/#4 for boon rip (which gives attacker's insight). > > > > Easier said than done in team fights, but the in a smaller fight scenario you can still outplay the warrior by avoiding certain abilities other than FC (if you struggle to bait out FC) > > The unblockable daze, which has heavy synergy with the rest of the spellbreaker line, is the issue, not the damage. Its a fundamentally broken design that up to 5 people can get hit with an unblockable daze because any of the following reasons: > > * Another player messed up and hit FC > * There was an pulsing AoE on the ground (literally nothing we can do to stop the SB from just walking into it) > * There was any AI class in the fight (1/3 of all classes mind you) > > The daze should only affect the person that procs FC > > @"Odik.4587" A defender can be summoned 6 times back to back currently, its not exactly comparable to FC. 100% agreed. The damage isn't actually all that bad in perspective, it's everything else that FC does that's problematic. An unblockable AoE daze and condi transfer? For every other class, that's usually an elite skill (Basilisk Venom, Prime Light Beam, etc). Only exception would be DH longbow 3 when traited, which I'm also not a fan of. But DH longbow has much lower damage potential than a warrior in melee range too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holodoc.5748 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 > @"Conscript.3657" said: > > @"BeepBoopBap.2840" said: > > > @"Conscript.3657" said: > > > Full Counter is the consequence for mindlessly spamming skills. > > > > GG what every pro warrior says. > > > > But am I supposed to get punished for someone else hitting Full Counter? > > This is a team game, so yes. A team game where ranked mode is designed for ten randomly picked players to fight each other. Yeah, logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Full Counter is fine. If you hit it, you can dodge it, so you have two chances to avoid it (1. don't hit into it! If you or your teammate did, then 2. dodge it). The telegraph is fair. Spellbreaker is fine in PvP. It's not fine in WvW due to overpowered Endure/Defy Pain. I play Reaper, which relies heavily on an 8 (!) second lasting AOE (Nightfall). This is an invitation to a Full Counter. And I am still saying Full COunter is not the problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virelion.4128 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Problem with warrior is not only full counter but fact that they can go almost full zerker with ability to still be extremally tanky. Also full counter can be triggered by everything in this game. Despite having very good animation in terma of visibility this animation is getting bugged a lot which makes warrior visible as infinite full counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 The only issue I still have with it if the animation being stuck for entire games which makes it nigh impossible to spot it, aside from looking at the buff bar. But you don't want your eyes glued to someone's buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obindo.6802 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 It's ridiculous that people try and defend full counter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 FC is annoying as hell ONLY because of friendly procing the damn skill. sometimes it can not be hel like the warrior running into necro aor or mesmer clones, but a lot of the time its people tunnel visioned into spamming skills then sulk when they get a 6k+ FC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbp.1693 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 FC should only hit people that actually hit the warr, and in case no one activated it, it should go in a 20 sec cool down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalal.6783 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Wanted to delete comment. Didn't know how so this is the next best thing i could think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiritodatrth.1548 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 FC is fine... Better than that, FC is the best ability developed in GW2, whoever developed it deserves a reward... It mimics the real fight... As an ex competitor in Martial arts that's the closest we get from a real eviroment... Same can be said from the block on GS ranger or block on sword OH Mesmer... You really have to think and not spam all the numbers... Try to spam technics in a jiu jitsu fight and see where it ends... I agree that the FC being applied to War is the right way to go... I would just love to see similar abilities for other classes like necro, thief, Eles... Maybe not as powerful as war (cause it's a specialization burst) but something that makes ppl think before press all their buttons... Ppl just complain cause they are not used to it... We need more of FC like skills not less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 > @"Obindo.6802" said: > It's ridiculous that people try and defend full counter I resemble that remark!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 > @"Kiritodatrth.1548" said: > FC is fine... Better than that, FC is the best ability developed in GW2, whoever developed it deserves a reward... It mimics the real fight... As an ex competitor in Martial arts that's the closest we get from a real eviroment... Same can be said from the block on GS ranger or block on sword OH Mesmer... You really have to think and not spam all the numbers... Try to spam technics in a jiu jitsu fight and see where it ends... > I agree that the FC being applied to War is the right way to go... I would just love to see similar abilities for other classes like necro, thief, Eles... Maybe not as powerful as war (cause it's a specialization burst) but something that makes ppl think before press all their buttons... Ppl just complain cause they are not used to it... We need more of FC like skills not less Sure. I main guardian, I want my FC. on trigger it does a 300 aoe: aegis to 5 allies, removes 2 condi, similar damage and 3 stacks of burning. On 12 sec CD of course and unblockable of course. It is broken, so instead of fixing it let’s break it all the way. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xca.9721 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 You guys realize that full counter only deals additional damage, transfers conditions and gives resistance by using the major grandmaster trait? And it has to be procced of course. Besides Spellbreaker hits like a wet noodle, the rampage skills have an obvious tell and can be easily avoided. Btw I dont play spellbreaker myself anymore cause its fucking boring. Warrior in general is fucking boring since they removed berserker from spvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now