I love Caithe so much?

[tanglebuddy.5917]

I just wanted to say that I really love and appreciate her character. I think she's the best-written character in-game, even though I didn't like how she was handled in Heart of Thorns. I think she's complex and interesting and has a lot of depth. If there would be more characters like her, I'd be so down for it. I am really excited for when she comes back!

 

There was always an air of mystery around her. Whenever I play through the story, I always enjoy the parts with her in it. Her dialogue and the decisions she made kept things really interesting for me. She's warm and caring for others and then she catches herself and shuts herself off, she keeps herself hidden from the eyes of the world. She does what needs to be done with little hesitation. She makes mistakes. All this time she's been carrying the weight of such a huge burden. With all the stuff that's been going on, she still tried to round up Destiny's Edge, she still helped the commander, and she still just carries on with her life. I think she's flawed, and strong, and wonderful. I like the contradictions in her character.

 

I'm always disappointed when people default to just calling her mean or emotionless. She's the character I enjoy the most in-game.

 

 

[Klipso.8653]

Pretty much all of the destiny edge characters (except rytlock) were incredibly dull and uninteresting.

 

Plant lady was boring and became unlikable in season 2.

 

The Norn only served a single plotline from HoT so the other norn could become unlikable as well.

 

The frog-rat was obnoxious, and thankfully been missing in action since HoT.

 

Logan was ok I guess? But he wasn't interesting either.

[Bunny Is Cthulhu.7931]

It's awesome to see another Caithe fan :D I'm glad you like her

[Ardid.7203]

Caithe is a great character, super complex and interesting because it is full of contradictions and flaws. She is not my favorite at all, but I recognize this is NOT because the character itself, but because the overzealous love some of her fans shows to her, making them unable to see any of her moral problems.

Her dialogues are a bit dry, and the reactions of our Commander to her are in the super bad side of the quality writing (The commander is much more strict and untrusting with Canach, even when Canach crimes are far lesser than Caithe's ones). Aside from that, I think she is one of the best developed personalities on the game.

[ugrakarma.9416]

I would not say the best written, but the most mechanically implemented, after all she has 2 whole chapters in an LS2 dedicated to her memories.

 

[Fenella.2634]

I don't really care much about most of DE, but I don't mind them either. Except for Caithe. With all the background knowledge she had for about 20 years - just why did she not give the slightest of warnings to the pact? How could she let all her DE friends and who knows how many pact soldiers just fly off to the jungle like that? Did she expect Trahearne to casually meet with Faolain or something?

And somehow this is never being brought up by any of the characters. Maybe the Caithe fans here could explain what was going on there? I really find that unforgivable as is.

 

I appreciate her being a somewhat complex character, which unfortunately is pretty rare in Tyria, but I certainly like Braham and Trahearne more than her. :D

[Ardid.7203]

> @"Fenella.2634" said:

> I don't really care much about most of DE, but I don't mind them either. Except for Caithe. With all the background knowledge she had for about 20 years - just why did she not give the slightest of warnings to the pact? How could she let all her DE friends and who knows how many pact soldiers just fly off to the jungle like that? Did she expect Trahearne to casually meet with Faolain or something?

> And somehow this is never being brought up by any of the characters. Maybe the Caithe fans here could explain what was going on there? I really find that unforgivable as is.

>

> I appreciate her being a somewhat complex character, which unfortunately is pretty rare in Tyria, but I certainly like Braham and Trahearne more than her. :D

 

I have taken part in many arguments about Caithe's responsibilities. Most hardcore fans just dismiss any bad action or harmful inaction because she was afraid, confused, in love, etc. Their arguments usually don't add up at all, but you cant really change their minds.

 

AND the commander illogical response gives them some reason: If the major representative of the victims of Caithe's actions is capable of dismissing all her previous wrongdoing and future potential risk, and without more ado, simply trust her with the most valuable asset in all Tyria...

 

I like Caithe antiheroic ambiguity, but the way the rest of the cast answer to her actions is just terrible writing.

[Fenella.2634]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> I have taken part in many arguments about Caithe's responsibilities. Most hardcore fans just dismiss any bad action or harmful inaction because she was afraid, confused, in love, etc. Their arguments usually don't add up at all, but you cant really change their minds.

Oh, I don't want to change anyone's mind. If people like her and forgive her, that's fine by me. I just want to understand what was going on in her head. For most things that happened up to HoT I kind of get it.

But not warning the Pact at all is different. She had had the important bits of info for so many years. She certainly was no longer "confused" here or whatever. So her staying safe, watching everyone she "cared" so much about fly off and never considering even giving hints is just not okay. For me, that'd be the one thing I'd really blame her for. Fortunately for her, the Commander apparently does not.

[PanBelacqua.9058]

Caithe didn't warn the Pact, because of her experiences with Faolain. She was, originally, 1/12th of her entire race, and this secret not only separated her from her girlfriend, but forced her to kill her sister. As Wynne said, "If word got out, the world would see us as monsters."

 

I don't think Caithe fully grasped just how easily Mordremoth would take over the Pact sylvari, and even if she had, we get another potential out via Out of the Shadows: "It was all grey." Mordremoth was affecting Caithe's mind, and influencing her decision-making by this point. She could have spent 20 years holding onto this secret, knowing that Mordremoth wouldn't awaken for decades. She learned that sylvari were the minions of Mordremoth in 1304AE. Kralkatorrik awoke in 1320AE, so Mordremoth _should_ have awoken in 1370AE. I'm guessing that Caithe was hoping she and the other sylvari could prove themselves against the Elder Dragons, thereby making other races trust them more, before revealing their origins, and looking for countermeasures. As it was, Scarlet roused Mordremoth in 1326AE (44 years early), and it started affecting their minds. Caithe snagged Aurene shortly after this, indicating she was likely already being affected.

 

So basically...she made a mistake, but not really a damning one. She wanted to solidify the sylvari's interspecies relations, before revealing their origins, or else they would be wiped out before getting a chance to settle in the world.

[tanglebuddy.5917]

> @"PanBelacqua.9058" said:

> Caithe didn't warn the Pact, because of her experiences with Faolain. She was, originally, 1/12th of her entire race, and this secret not only separated her from her girlfriend, but forced her to kill her sister. As Wynne said, "If word got out, the world would see us as monsters."

>

> I don't think Caithe fully grasped just how easily Mordremoth would take over the Pact sylvari, and even if she had, we get another potential out via Out of the Shadows: "It was all grey." Mordremoth was affecting Caithe's mind, and influencing her decision-making by this point. She could have spent 20 years holding onto this secret, knowing that Mordremoth wouldn't awaken for decades. She learned that sylvari were the minions of Mordremoth in 1304AE. Kralkatorrik awoke in 1320AE, so Mordremoth _should_ have awoken in 1370AE. I'm guessing that Caithe was hoping she and the other sylvari could prove themselves against the Elder Dragons, thereby making other races trust them more, before revealing their origins, and looking for countermeasures. As it was, Scarlet roused Mordremoth in 1326AE (44 years early), and it started affecting their minds. Caithe snagged Aurene shortly after this, indicating she was likely already being affected.

>

> So basically...she made a mistake, but not really a damning one. She wanted to solidify the sylvari's interspecies relations, before revealing their origins, or else they would be wiped out before getting a chance to settle in the world.

 

I like this comment, thank you PanBelacqua :D

 

As far as we know (or as far as I know, at least) All of the other dragon minions have been mindless minions, without a will of their own. Sylvari are the first to ever stray from that? AFAIK, they're the only dragon minion who were able to be like "nah" when it came to the will of the dragon they're supposed to serve. There's no point of reference for Caithe, there hadn't been anything like them before. All she knew was, they were dragon minions, and if the world found out, they would be wiped out, as PanBelacqua said. It's not something she could just tell anyone about. Should that crucial information fall in the wrong hands, it'll be Real Bad, the death of sylvari.

 

I feel like, at that point, there -are- choices for her, but they're not... viable? Who could she tell? Who could she trust? What would come out of telling anyone? There were sylvari who could resist the call of the dragon. How could she have known that there would be more who would fall to it? That it would be that strong? It's easy for other people to say that she should've done something else, seeing as -we- know how things turned out.

[PanBelacqua.9058]

Exactly! The only other dragon minions with free will were Glint and Vlast. Aurene hadn't been born yet, and Kuunavang's nature is uncertain (...and no Tyrian has heard from her in over a century). Caithe was in uncharted territory, and tried to do what was right for her fledgeling species.

[Rognik.2579]

> @"tanglebuddy.5917" said:

> As far as we know (or as far as I know, at least) All of the other dragon minions have been mindless minions, without a will of their own. Sylvari are the first to ever stray from that? AFAIK, they're the only dragon minion who were able to be like "nah" when it came to the will of the dragon they're supposed to serve. There's no point of reference for Caithe, there hadn't been anything like them before. All she knew was, they were dragon minions, and if the world found out, they would be wiped out, as PanBelacqua said. It's not something she could just tell anyone about. Should that crucial information fall in the wrong hands, it'll be Real Bad, the death of sylvari.

 

Well, just want to point out that the sylvari are a big exception as far as dragon minions go. We have no idea what exactly happened that got them to be free of Mordremoth's influence, but dragon influence seems to be permanent and near-irreversible. Also, there was far more than just Wynne's secret and her murder that broke up Caithe and Faolain, especially as we see Faolain making various plans that Caithe doesn't agree with.

[norbes.3620]

> @"tanglebuddy.5917" said:

> > @"PanBelacqua.9058" said:

> > Caithe didn't warn the Pact, because of her experiences with Faolain. She was, originally, 1/12th of her entire race, and this secret not only separated her from her girlfriend, but forced her to kill her sister. As Wynne said, "If word got out, the world would see us as monsters."

> >

> > I don't think Caithe fully grasped just how easily Mordremoth would take over the Pact sylvari, and even if she had, we get another potential out via Out of the Shadows: "It was all grey." Mordremoth was affecting Caithe's mind, and influencing her decision-making by this point. She could have spent 20 years holding onto this secret, knowing that Mordremoth wouldn't awaken for decades. She learned that sylvari were the minions of Mordremoth in 1304AE. Kralkatorrik awoke in 1320AE, so Mordremoth _should_ have awoken in 1370AE. I'm guessing that Caithe was hoping she and the other sylvari could prove themselves against the Elder Dragons, thereby making other races trust them more, before revealing their origins, and looking for countermeasures. As it was, Scarlet roused Mordremoth in 1326AE (44 years early), and it started affecting their minds. Caithe snagged Aurene shortly after this, indicating she was likely already being affected.

> >

> > So basically...she made a mistake, but not really a damning one. She wanted to solidify the sylvari's interspecies relations, before revealing their origins, or else they would be wiped out before getting a chance to settle in the world.

>

> I like this comment, thank you PanBelacqua :D

>

> As far as we know (or as far as I know, at least) All of the other dragon minions have been mindless minions, without a will of their own. Sylvari are the first to ever stray from that? AFAIK, they're the only dragon minion who were able to be like "nah" when it came to the will of the dragon they're supposed to serve. There's no point of reference for Caithe, there hadn't been anything like them before. All she knew was, they were dragon minions, and if the world found out, they would be wiped out, as PanBelacqua said. It's not something she could just tell anyone about. Should that crucial information fall in the wrong hands, it'll be Real Bad, the death of sylvari.

>

> I feel like, at that point, there -are- choices for her, but they're not... viable? Who could she tell? Who could she trust? What would come out of telling anyone? There were sylvari who could resist the call of the dragon. How could she have known that there would be more who would fall to it? That it would be that strong? It's easy for other people to say that she should've done something else, seeing as -we- know how things turned out.

 

this gets Confirmed during some Events in Verdant Brink. PC are supposed to stop the other Pact troops to KILL every Sylvari on sight!

And dont Forget what Kind of impact revealing the real source of the sylvari could have made regarding WHO the leader of the pact was. up to that Moment sylvari where EVERYWERE in every Organisation with multiracial members were sylvari in leading positions. Ofcourse thats a good start for mordemoth. but even if u put that aside

if the pact would have been informed short time bevor the Invasion of maguma it would have caused disbelieve and distrust not only towards trahearne but also every leading sylvari in the original orders from wich the pact was formed. Chaos would not be avoidable and the pact could have disbanded causing the orders to shut emselfs off each other again to start test on sylvari or purify their order from them(kill sylvari on sight)

with that in mind the attack against mordremoth would definetly not have been started.

propably there would still be People who are loyal towards trahearne and who would still want to continue the assault. butmost of them would be sylvari.

 

 

here an imaginery Situation:

 

there were no Major fights inside the pact but those who distrust the pact cuz ist lead by a sylvari are gone home. and now the pact started the big Invasion of the jungle wich we have seen in that nice cutscene

from my ingame experience i got the impression that the Majority of sylvari answered the call. but im still just grasping some random numbers

 

lets say 80% answered the call that leaves 20% of the sylvari fighting alongside the already weakened pact troops.

even without being in such a weakened spot the pact had Trouble Holding their ground and moving Forward.

so we can guess that it could have ended in an almost instant defeat

 

so if someone Imagines a Scenario of an disbanding pact in the process of thought if or if not she should tell someone and if she wants to tell someone who should she tell without making her whole race a target for everyone. it would not surprise me to stay silent

and u should not Forget that member of a race(or Nation from RL PoV, or even a Company if u prefere the Business side) tend to act in what they think is best for their Race and not for the whole world.

 

People may be concerned for the global effects but still want to achieve the best outcome possible for their own faction

 

from what i know None of the other member of destinys edge is responsible for this Kind of burden or to make a choice even comparable to that.

 

watching the selfish pouting behavior of some other character from DE or DW dont help me like them even if they had some personal tragedys.

[Ardid.7203]

The choice was tough, no doubt. But lets never forget her final decision was wrong... She should have warned the other Sylvari. She should have revealed the secret to their allies. That would have saved many lives and make things way easier for everyone, even with the Sylvari under probably unfair surveillance.

Having your heart "in the good place" don't exempt you from doing wrong.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> The choice was tough, no doubt. But lets never forget her final decision was wrong... She should have warned the other Sylvari. She should have revealed the secret to their allies. That would have saved many lives and make things way easier for everyone, even with the Sylvari under probably unfair surveillance.

> Having your heart "in the good place" don't exempt you from doing wrong.

 

That depends. Even knowing that the sylvari were originally meant to be Mordremoth's minions, she did _not_ know that the dragon had a back door into their heads, and so she couldn't have warned the Pact of what would happen when the fleet launched. It's entirely up in the air whether the Pact would've taken precautions regarding their sylvari members, especially considering that their leader was himself sylvari.

 

(I will note that, given the conversations we had with the Pale Tree regarding Scarlet and the fact that she also knew about their origins with Mordremoth, she likely _could_ have anticipated the risk and warned the Pact. Unlike Caithe, she had all the cards, but she also didn't share them when she had the chance. If there's blame to be laid for the decision, the bulk of it falls on her; Caithe's decision, by comparison, was both less damaging and following the example her mother set.)

[Ardid.7203]

I concur: the Pale Tree made a huge mistake too.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @"Ardid.7203" said:

> > The choice was tough, no doubt. But lets never forget her final decision was wrong... She should have warned the other Sylvari. She should have revealed the secret to their allies. That would have saved many lives and make things way easier for everyone, even with the Sylvari under probably unfair surveillance.

> > Having your heart "in the good place" don't exempt you from doing wrong.

>

> That depends. Even knowing that the sylvari were originally meant to be Mordremoth's minions, she did _not_ know that the dragon had a back door into their heads, and so she couldn't have warned the Pact of what would happen when the fleet launched. It's entirely up in the air whether the Pact would've taken precautions regarding their sylvari members, especially considering that their leader was himself sylvari.

>

> (I will note that, given the conversations we had with the Pale Tree regarding Scarlet and the fact that she also knew about their origins with Mordremoth, she likely _could_ have anticipated the risk and warned the Pact. Unlike Caithe, she had all the cards, but she also didn't share them when she had the chance. If there's blame to be laid for the decision, the bulk of it falls on her; Caithe's decision, by comparison, was both less damaging and following the example her mother set.)

 

Well mind you, Mordremoth did damaged the Pale Tree with the Shadow of the Dragon during the Summit. It’s entirely possible that she meant to provide this information until she was interrupted and injured.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > > @"Ardid.7203" said:

> > > The choice was tough, no doubt. But lets never forget her final decision was wrong... She should have warned the other Sylvari. She should have revealed the secret to their allies. That would have saved many lives and make things way easier for everyone, even with the Sylvari under probably unfair surveillance.

> > > Having your heart "in the good place" don't exempt you from doing wrong.

> >

> > That depends. Even knowing that the sylvari were originally meant to be Mordremoth's minions, she did _not_ know that the dragon had a back door into their heads, and so she couldn't have warned the Pact of what would happen when the fleet launched. It's entirely up in the air whether the Pact would've taken precautions regarding their sylvari members, especially considering that their leader was himself sylvari.

> >

> > (I will note that, given the conversations we had with the Pale Tree regarding Scarlet and the fact that she also knew about their origins with Mordremoth, she likely _could_ have anticipated the risk and warned the Pact. Unlike Caithe, she had all the cards, but she also didn't share them when she had the chance. If there's blame to be laid for the decision, the bulk of it falls on her; Caithe's decision, by comparison, was both less damaging and following the example her mother set.)

>

> Well mind you, Mordremoth did damaged the Pale Tree with the Shadow of the Dragon during the Summit. It’s entirely possible that she meant to provide this information until she was interrupted and injured.

 

That is a mitigating factor, but it's what I meant when I said 'when she had a chance'. Knowing that Mordremoth was within striking distance, and possessing knowledge that should've made it obvious that she would be a prime target, she would've been capable of knowing that this is the kind of thing that she should've told the Commander _when she'd already cleared the room to speak with us in private anyway_, not something to hold out for the most dramatically appropriate moment. Whether she meant to tell us at a later point or not is moot- either way, she was irresponsible with the information when she possessed the knowledge that should have made the responsible choice clear, and when making the responsible choice would've saved many, many lives, including among her own children. There's room for debate about whether she should have told anyone at all, but none about whether she should've told us sooner. If there is culpability to be assigned here, she is at fault.

[worlds biggest losers.4230]

I'm ambivalent about Caithe, I think? While I agree with you that she isn't shallow of a character; in fact a pretty well thought-out one- It's not a character I would be close friends with. I thought it was only natural the commander should be suspicious of a Sylvari stealing something that Mordremoth wants very badly and running deep into Mordremoth's territory with it trying not to be seen. I warmed up to her a little bit after Canach told me that he wouldn't personally be able to judge Caithe for mistakes she made while feeling Mordremoth's call. Can't believe it was Canach that made me start to empathize with her when Caithe tells you as much herself, but there you go- sometimes it helps to have a neutral party that you aren't mad at weigh in. The call must have been very confusing and I appreciate everything she tried to do for Destiny's Edge. Caithe's okay. I can work with Caithe.

Have to agree with Aaron about the Pale Tree.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I kinda started to dislike Caithe from season 2 onwards.

 

I'm a bit biased against Sylvari though, they have the worst lore IMO and I hate all their NPC voice lines. Canach is the only likeable Sylvari to me.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Fenella.2634" said:

> I don't really care much about most of DE, but I don't mind them either. Except for Caithe. With all the background knowledge she had for about 20 years - just why did she not give the slightest of warnings to the pact? How could she let all her DE friends and who knows how many pact soldiers just fly off to the jungle like that? Did she expect Trahearne to casually meet with Faolain or something?

> And somehow this is never being brought up by any of the characters. Maybe the Caithe fans here could explain what was going on there? I really find that unforgivable as is.

>

> I appreciate her being a somewhat complex character, which unfortunately is pretty rare in Tyria, but I certainly like Braham and Trahearne more than her. :D

 

I'm fairly neutral about Caithe, but I see Caithe's actions as a result of three things.

 

Firstly, she spent about 20 years at this point (the vast majority of her life) not trusting anyone, and acting before thinking. In Edge of Destiny, Caithe runs off ahead without telling Logan/Rytlock (and later Destiny's Edge) what she's planning, and while it usually works out, it doesn't always. Logan (iirc) even addresses this in the final episode of Season 2 while we're tracking Caithe down, treating her taking the egg and running off as "not that unusual" for her behavior. This behavior likely stems from how the first person she trusted, Faolain, turned evil, while the first race the sylvari met, asura, treated them poorly. All the while, Caithe and Faolain were exploring the world, meaning she likely kept to herself during her early years with only Faolain to talk to. And after Faolain fell to Nightmare five or so years after the Firstborns' awakening, Caithe was alone until 1319 AE (since the S2 flashbacks happened months/year after the Secondborn began to awaken in 1304, that would indicate ~14 years of solitude; followed by 4 more after DE broke up in with Snaff and Glint's death).

 

Secondly, by all indication, she was being influenced by Mordremoth during the course of Season 2. Mordremoth's first works were very subtle, and done in such a way so as to convince the sylvari that the thoughts he implants were their own, or their Wyld Hunt. This is why she felt such a drive to take the egg and leave the group. And chances are, these would be influencing her thoughts about whether or not she should reveal the sylvari origin.

 

Thirdly, and imo most importantly, she no doubt questioned how people would react. Most sylvari have been pondering for their race's purpose. I wouldn't doubt the thought crossed her mind that "if sylvari learn they stem from the minions of an Elder Dragon, many would willingly go to serve it whether it's the right thing to do or not". On top of that, non-sylvari would undoubtably be prejudiced against sylvari once finding out their origins (and they indeed were), especially among the Pact who had many soldiers consisting of those who had suffered losses at the hands of Elder Dragons and their minions even before joining the Pact. And the worries presented by this point would no doubt be heightened by the second point.

 

So I'd say it'd be a combination of "has troubles trusting others", "worried what the outcome would be", and "subtly influenced by Mordremoth to do things benefiting him".

 

Ultimately whether or not Caithe should have told others is one of those "questions without a right answer", just like Logan going to rescue Jennah from the branded at the end of Edge of Destiny. Do or do not, there would be negative consequences either way. There's certainly blame to be placed on her, but not all of it.

 

Similarly, I really felt that the main characters' reactions to Caithe in HoT were unfoundedly harsh. Braham's hostility to her made sense (and so would any from the rest of DE, had they shown any views on the matter and not be mute background pieces), but from all Rytlock and the Commander knew from past experiences, she acted just as she always had, so their hostility (especially for sylvari PCs) felt too harsh and unfounded.

[Elva.6372]

> @"PanBelacqua.9058" said:

> She was, originally, 1/12th of her entire race, and this secret not only separated her from her girlfriend, but forced her to kill her sister. As Wynne said, "If word got out, the world would see us as monsters."

 

And was thusly proven to be a monster by her murderous participation in all the events that resulted in the circumstance of Wynne's death. Caithe wasn't "forced" to do anything, she was weak in the worst way possible and it got people killed, not just Wynne but all those kind centaurs in their village.

 

It's like the asking for leniency to the killer who just murdered his parents by claiming he's an orphan!

 

Yes, have pity on Caithe, she's had all the other Sylvari to choose from and she settled on the most psychopathic one who dropped glaring hints of her malevolent soul left and right.

 

Caithe could easily have been one of my favorites but that was harshly tempered by her contemptible behavior in Living World Season 2 - especially in regards to Wynne and the peaceful centaurs. This didn't make her character more interesting to me, it made her character less believable and far more deplorable.

 

If Sylvari are the moral equivalent of babes in the woods, perhaps they shouldn't be armed with deadly weapons and just stick to the boughs of the Pale Tree.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Elva.6372" said:

> Yes, have pity on Caithe, she's had all the other Sylvari to choose from and she settled on the most psychopathic one who dropped glaring hints of her malevolent soul left and right.

 

Faolain wasn't always psychopathic though. She actually started a good person. It was during the two's travels across Tyria that the changes happened, as apparently they first encountered the Nightmare (the first of their kind to; and iirc, did so at Orr). Both of them did. But while Caithe resisted, Faolain didn't, and Caithe didn't realize that Faolain hadn't until that point with Wynne.

 

And to be honest, the worst Faolain showed until killing the centaurs was a bit of racism (which was, in all honesty, very well deserved given that the first interactions between sylvari and other races resulted in the torture and death, intentional and not, of dozens of sylvari) and a tendency to obsess over what's caught her interest at the moment.

 

What Season 2 showed was the point where Faolain went from "harsh tempered but not evil" to "full out evil"; it was Cadeyrn's preaching (alluded to in that first instance) that was the final tipping point (preaching that stemmed from Caithe's own ignorant comment to him that "you're either Firstborn or you're not" to the Pale Tree). And it was at that very same point, where Faolain went from crude and harsh to evil, that Caithe realized Faolain had been morally declining and had crossed the line.

 

Season 2 doesn't really show it well, that Faolain was a better person before that point of the flashback. But it gets mentioned a few times with Caithe in the sylvari PS, Edge of Destiny novel, and TA story.

[Arden.7480]

Caithe is Deep Sea Dragon's child.

[Ardid.7203]

> @"Elva.6372" said:

> > @"PanBelacqua.9058" said:

> > She was, originally, 1/12th of her entire race, and this secret not only separated her from her girlfriend, but forced her to kill her sister. As Wynne said, "If word got out, the world would see us as monsters."

>

> And was thusly proven to be a monster by her murderous participation in all the events that resulted in the circumstance of Wynne's death. Caithe wasn't "forced" to do anything, she was weak in the worst way possible and it got people killed, not just Wynne but all those kind centaurs in their village.

>

> It's like the asking for leniency to the killer who just murdered his parents by claiming he's an orphan!

>

> Yes, have pity on Caithe, she's had all the other Sylvari to choose from and she settled on the most psychopathic one who dropped glaring hints of her malevolent soul left and right.

>

> Caithe could easily have been one of my favorites but that was harshly tempered by her contemptible behavior in Living World Season 2 - especially in regards to Wynne and the peaceful centaurs. This didn't make her character more interesting to me, it made her character less believable and far more deplorable.

>

> If Sylvari are the moral equivalent of babes in the woods, perhaps they shouldn't be armed with deadly weapons and just stick to the boughs of the Pale Tree.

 

Although I concurr on your feelings about Caithe "morality", I DO think this made her a better character. Would she had been any less weak, she woould probably end up being another typical hero without any interesting background. I would always insist: Caithe is a great character, with an abismal writing in the area of consequences.

Personally, I would have the commander to pity her and emotionally support her in the first place, but only to put her under care and surveillance immediately after.

 

"Caithe, I understand you are suffering, and I love you, but you are a danger for everyone, and you need help." Then we can have a Caithe that need heavy support to fight the crushing guilt of someone that is "good" but has done too much "bad", and can later develop into a truly redeemed hero, or into a rich, multilayered and deeply emotional nemesis.

 

What we had instead was like "I'm SO MAD at you. But, ok, watch the ultimate world saving baby for me, I don't mind."