[WvW] Will the last tempest/core Ele plz turn out the light?

[supreme.3602]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Dahir.4158" said:

> > Jsi.6180: "In wvw most of your dmg is coming from fire ball and duel skills."

> >

> > Funniest thing I've read in this thread. Lava Font and Meteor Shower are the main damage dealers.

>

> They are your big numbers to make you feel good. Your mind dmg is the dmg you can do most of the time this is why your going to see scorge in "real" wvw fights (not mindless blob fights) do most of the dmg. This is fire ball most of the time. Lava font is to small to land its full effect most of the time and MS fall rate is to slow to land its big dps just burst dmg.

>

> If you wanted to down ppl or burst your better off sniping with scpter if you want to do dps your better off with a staff spaming fire ball.

>

> This is why tempest was used for a time over core ele not because of it being the new thing but because its overloades did real consist dmg vs a group namely air overloade something that happen on back then 1/4 sec hit rate and on a 360 size aoe.

>

> Right now ele is all flash no real substrates. You feel good seeing big numbers but they are worthless and its the scorge that doing most of the work for dps.

 

I don't think you are placing Lava Font or MS at the right time then, because for me, Lava Font (with Persisting Flames) deals so much damage and lasts for a long time when enemies are nicely stacked and not in random places. What are real wvw fights btw?

[Jski.6180]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Dahir.4158" said:

> > > Jsi.6180: "In wvw most of your dmg is coming from fire ball and duel skills."

> > >

> > > Funniest thing I've read in this thread. Lava Font and Meteor Shower are the main damage dealers.

> >

> > They are your big numbers to make you feel good. Your mind dmg is the dmg you can do most of the time this is why your going to see scorge in "real" wvw fights (not mindless blob fights) do most of the dmg. This is fire ball most of the time. Lava font is to small to land its full effect most of the time and MS fall rate is to slow to land its big dps just burst dmg.

> >

> > If you wanted to down ppl or burst your better off sniping with scpter if you want to do dps your better off with a staff spaming fire ball.

> >

> > This is why tempest was used for a time over core ele not because of it being the new thing but because its overloades did real consist dmg vs a group namely air overloade something that happen on back then 1/4 sec hit rate and on a 360 size aoe.

> >

> > Right now ele is all flash no real substrates. You feel good seeing big numbers but they are worthless and its the scorge that doing most of the work for dps.

>

> Most HoT specs are now no longer played I can think of 2 maybe even 3 that are still used (Chrono and Herald) Everything else is either useless or PoF specs this is due to all PoF specs being completely Overpowered (Firebrand,Scourge,Spellbreaker and you could add Weaver into it due to MS aswell) Tempest was not used for it's damage in WvW, It was used for it's sustained frontline healing abilities, having access to Stuns, Water Fields, Condi removal, Auras, and various boons, for this you would be running full Minstrel's.

 

Tempest dose not have most of that its all coming from the core class at best tempest just has shout support and some burst heals and what small support fields are still. Tempest has no enate clears tempest only has a few heal effects and tempest only has a few boons from its overloades that will hit other ppl. I do not get why tempest shouts give 2 stack of might and weakness and that all you can traite for them its kind of sad. Tempest is not viable for support any more its a good bursier but its not really a support class.

[TheQuickFox.3826]


And again. Players getting kicked from group for running an "illegal class" based only on the icon of their profession/elite spec alone. Officers don't even take the effort to evaluate your participation, just an instant kick from an "open" tag.

 

WTB scourge/firebrand icon disguise for my tempest.

[steki.1478]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> 

> And again. Players getting kicked from group for running an "illegal class" based only on the icon of their profession/elite spec alone. Officers don't even take the effort to evaluate your participation, just an instant kick from an "open" tag.

>

> WTB scourge/firebrand icon disguise for my tempest.

 

Just play staff weaver.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > 

> > And again. Players getting kicked from group for running an "illegal class" based only on the icon of their profession/elite spec alone. Officers don't even take the effort to evaluate your participation, just an instant kick from an "open" tag.

> >

> > WTB scourge/firebrand icon disguise for my tempest.

>

> Just play staff weaver.

 

Weaver is too complicated to play for me. I like playing a more straightforward Elementalist build, which I can only find in core or tempest.

[steki.1478]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > > 

> > > And again. Players getting kicked from group for running an "illegal class" based only on the icon of their profession/elite spec alone. Officers don't even take the effort to evaluate your participation, just an instant kick from an "open" tag.

> > >

> > > WTB scourge/firebrand icon disguise for my tempest.

> >

> > Just play staff weaver.

>

> Weaver is too complicated to play for me. I like playing a more straightforward Elementalist build, which I can only find in core or tempest.

 

Then use core with staff, it's as effective as weaver. It just has less damage potential, but can offer more utility with some heals and cleanses from water and arcane specs.

 

 

Tempest is seriously a useless spec if you're not playing it as full healer, which you dont seem to be doing anyways so it is a waste of squad slot.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > > > 

> > > > And again. Players getting kicked from group for running an "illegal class" based only on the icon of their profession/elite spec alone. Officers don't even take the effort to evaluate your participation, just an instant kick from an "open" tag.

> > > >

> > > > WTB scourge/firebrand icon disguise for my tempest.

> > >

> > > Just play staff weaver.

> >

> > Weaver is too complicated to play for me. I like playing a more straightforward Elementalist build, which I can only find in core or tempest.

>

> Then use core with staff, it's as effective as weaver. It just has less damage potential, but can offer more utility with some heals and cleanses from water and arcane specs.

>

>

> Tempest is seriously a useless spec if you're not playing it as full healer, which you dont seem to be doing anyways so it is a waste of squad slot.

 

They also kick the core Ellies out of the group. Regardless of the build/weapon. We just seem to have a bad name as well as a few other professions/specs.

[steki.1478]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > > > > 

> > > > > And again. Players getting kicked from group for running an "illegal class" based only on the icon of their profession/elite spec alone. Officers don't even take the effort to evaluate your participation, just an instant kick from an "open" tag.

> > > > >

> > > > > WTB scourge/firebrand icon disguise for my tempest.

> > > >

> > > > Just play staff weaver.

> > >

> > > Weaver is too complicated to play for me. I like playing a more straightforward Elementalist build, which I can only find in core or tempest.

> >

> > Then use core with staff, it's as effective as weaver. It just has less damage potential, but can offer more utility with some heals and cleanses from water and arcane specs.

> >

> >

> > Tempest is seriously a useless spec if you're not playing it as full healer, which you dont seem to be doing anyways so it is a waste of squad slot.

>

> They also kick the core Ellies out of the group. Regardless of the build/weapon. We just seem to have a bad name as well as a few other professions/specs.

 

For a good reason though. There's just (far) better picks for organized squads and some people will always want whats best. Kicking core ele though doesnt seem right since it can still do everything that weaver does.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

In WvW the meta is Firebrand/Spellbreaker/Scourge/Chronomancer/Herald/Weaver... Any other class or spec is useless or doesn't bring anything new or decent to the group

[Jski.6180]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> In WvW the meta is Firebrand/Spellbreaker/Scourge/Chronomancer/Herald/Weaver... Any other class or spec is useless or doesn't bring anything new or decent to the group

 

Weaver is not at the same level of "meta" as the other classes you named its a sub meta class due to only have power dmg with out any real condi tide to it. Tempest is even lower on the chain as well as core ele. Some one needs to come up with an rank chart.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > In WvW the meta is Firebrand/Spellbreaker/Scourge/Chronomancer/Herald/Weaver... Any other class or spec is useless or doesn't bring anything new or decent to the group

>

> Weaver is not at the same level of "meta" as the other classes you named its a sub meta class due to only have power dmg with out any real condi tide to it. Tempest is even lower on the chain as well as core ele. Some one needs to come up with an rank chart.

 

No Literally every comp is stacked with Weavers lol helped due to the scourge nerf, now they can't just spam their shades all over the plave, so long as you position yourself you are good to go

[steki.1478]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > In WvW the meta is Firebrand/Spellbreaker/Scourge/Chronomancer/Herald/Weaver... Any other class or spec is useless or doesn't bring anything new or decent to the group

>

> Weaver is not at the same level of "meta" as the other classes you named its a sub meta class due to only have power dmg with out any real condi tide to it. Tempest is even lower on the chain as well as core ele. Some one needs to come up with an rank chart.

 

You dont need condi if it's provided by necros and if you can kill enemies with 7k+ crits on meteors while they are cleansing.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > In WvW the meta is Firebrand/Spellbreaker/Scourge/Chronomancer/Herald/Weaver... Any other class or spec is useless or doesn't bring anything new or decent to the group

> >

> > Weaver is not at the same level of "meta" as the other classes you named its a sub meta class due to only have power dmg with out any real condi tide to it. Tempest is even lower on the chain as well as core ele. Some one needs to come up with an rank chart.

>

> No Literally every comp is stacked with Weavers lol helped due to the scourge nerf, now they can't just spam their shades all over the plave, so long as you position yourself you are good to go

 

Its realty not scourge are able to do enofe power dmg on there own as they are still a base class necro the shade are only a pure power creep for scoruges.

[supreme.3602]

Blobs need the weavers for big meteor/lava font damage and scourges for shade/wells pressure.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"steki.1478" said:

 

> Vabbi is currently the server with strongest fighting capabilities

 

they are? so they lost against Elona on purpose? Or where they just scared to go to T1 to meet Gankdara and WSR/GH?

 

That said, not too long ago, in our nice 50men squad, there were no enough FB for everyone and all the eles (tempest, weaver, core) got grouped into one subsquad.

 

So one of us switched over to heal tempest.

 

And it was better than any fb support I ever had. Lets face it, most FB just cling to the com's behind, even if they are supposed to support a range subsquad. But the tempest, he stayed with us.

 

Give me that guy every day.

 

I also remember shortly before PoF dropped, when I was on a tanky auramancer built and just rushed through a whole Vabbi blob. Good times...

 

[steki.1478]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

>

> > Vabbi is currently the server with strongest fighting capabilities

>

> they are? so they lost against Elona on purpose? Or where they just scared to go to T1 to meet Gankdara and WSR/GH?

>

> That said, not too long ago, in our nice 50men squad, there were no enough FB for everyone and all the eles (tempest, weaver, core) got grouped into one subsquad.

>

> So one of us switched over to heal tempest.

>

> And it was better than any fb support I ever had. Lets face it, most FB just cling to the com's behind, even if they are supposed to support a range subsquad. But the tempest, he stayed with us.

>

> Give me that guy every day.

>

> I also remember shortly before PoF dropped, when I was on a tanky auramancer built and just rushed through a whole Vabbi blob. Good times...

>

 

Not everyone is trying to be a t1 hero. T1 provides no fights anyways, people bunker up in t3 objectives and fire ACs all day. Not particularly fun if you're not into ppt, which Vabbi isnt.

 

Tempest in general offers stronger heals and is pretty braindead so you cant mess up. FB offers a lot more buffs which are more useful, but as long as that fb has some brains to cast skills that aren't just tagging enemies with staff/F1. Player skill has nothing to do with class being good or not. You cant compare good tempest with bad firebrands.

 

Generally, backline doesnt need FB specifically, they just need someone to keep their HP up so they dont die from retal or random spikes. Any healer is capable of doing that, but tempest has biggest radius on heals so it's quite easier than on other classes.

[intox.6347]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> They also kick the core Ellies out of the group. Regardless of the build/weapon. We just seem to have a bad name as well as a few other professions/specs.

Dunno why you want to be in squad if your build is not for group, no support based, no dps based....

And thats commander thinking.... if you dont provide aoe dps or support.... you can run alone.... like thieves, rangers...

Squad is mostly about firebrands giving boons to right ppl, heals to right ppl, why he would put boons and heals on backline hybrid core ele with semi pve build ?

 

Same with ranger.... once ranger appear.... you know its pew pew LB .... most of them are really bad... just skillspam till target dead...

 

This builds are good till squad is full ... then you dont need to blob fight bring 6 rangers 4 thieves 2 scepter core eles... enemy will decimate you.

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

so what you are saying is: you let them get their keeps to t3 and instead of pulling them out, you just ran around, complained that nobody wants to fight and did nothing?

 

Yeah, sounds like Vabbi :P

[Lady Sapphirah.6234]

I play staff tempest backline in wvw and actually I suk lol

I dont care what people think or say lol. Nobody ever says anything bad about ele to me.... nvr been kicked from a squad or told to piss off or anything. Maybe after this?? lol

I hate the word meta, sick of it meta meta... haha

I have fun trying to annoy enemy zergs, make it a challenge to myself to try and hassle them and not get killed.... sneak around behind them, use cc's... annoy them defending keeps etc etc... all fun :)

Have been really enjoying running around by myself lately.. following tags sometimes :) If Im invited to a squad thats cool, if not... dont really care... whatever.

 

Guys... if u wanna play ele play ele, have fun.

 

ELES.... UNITE AND REVOLT!!

 

And before someone says I should care and be in squad and run meta... I can, I have, I know how, I do when I choose to... and ppl should be able to choose not to if thats what they want.

[Retow.8475]

WvW Tempest support here o/

I find the most fun in small scale fights/roaming with friends. Dagger+Warhorn/Focus offers a large amount of utility and healing.

However, when running in zergs I switch to staff healing, or off the class entirely in favour of Firebrand support.

I love Tempest support more than any other build in this game (condition Mirage is a close second).

However I have grown to understand the reality of WvW, in large scale and well organized fights Tempest support provides a fraction of what Druid or Firebrand offer.

The healing difference is noticeable, but more so is the lack of boons (especially stability and cleanses).

Another large gap I have noticed is the utility of other supports vs Tempest. The projectile hate, buffing, and healing of other classes is for the most part local and/or ground target based. Auras are limited by proximity and number of allies. I find this to be Tempest's biggest drawback and appeal.

It allows for the unique stacking of effects on a few allies (fury/healing/regen/reflect) based on how you tune your build.

However it leaves them far less desirable in large fights where area control and mass buffing dominates the scene.

(You also must sacrifice either a lot of healing or protection application to gain fury/might stacks. No reliable stability also hurts)

 

Tempest shines brightly as a roaming support, a favourite playstyle of mine. The spec is far from dead, but I would say it is not optimal for all situations. No elite class should be! Going back to an old statement along the lines of "elite specs are alternatives, not upgrades". Reaper is not an ideal support, Weaver is not an ideal bunker.

Just my little opinion after ~2 years of support play.

[steki.1478]

> @"Retow.8475" said:

> WvW Tempest support here o/

> I find the most fun in small scale fights/roaming with friends. Dagger+Warhorn/Focus offers a large amount of utility and healing.

> However, when running in zergs I switch to staff healing, or off the class entirely in favour of Firebrand support.

> I love Tempest support more than any other build in this game (condition Mirage is a close second).

> However I have grown to understand the reality of WvW, in large scale and well organized fights Tempest support provides a fraction of what Druid or Firebrand offer.

> The healing difference is noticeable, but more so is the lack of boons (especially stability and cleanses).

> Another large gap I have noticed is the utility of other supports vs Tempest. The projectile hate, buffing, and healing of other classes is for the most part local and/or ground target based. Auras are limited by proximity and number of allies. I find this to be Tempest's biggest drawback and appeal.

> It allows for the unique stacking of effects on a few allies (fury/healing/regen/reflect) based on how you tune your build.

> However it leaves them far less desirable in large fights where area control and mass buffing dominates the scene.

> (You also must sacrifice either a lot of healing or protection application to gain fury/might stacks. No reliable stability also hurts)

>

> Tempest shines brightly as a roaming support, a favourite playstyle of mine. The spec is far from dead, but I would say it is not optimal for all situations. No elite class should be! Going back to an old statement along the lines of "elite specs are alternatives, not upgrades". Reaper is not an ideal support, Weaver is not an ideal bunker.

> Just my little opinion after ~2 years of support play.

 

Before people get a wrong idea, druid is actually a lot worse than tempest in large scale. Too low radius/range on heals, limited cleanses, no pulsing boons, CA reliant which charges slowly. I agree on everything else though.

[Retow.8475]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Retow.8475" said:

> > WvW Tempest support here o/

> > I find the most fun in small scale fights/roaming with friends. Dagger+Warhorn/Focus offers a large amount of utility and healing.

> > However, when running in zergs I switch to staff healing, or off the class entirely in favour of Firebrand support.

> > I love Tempest support more than any other build in this game (condition Mirage is a close second).

> > However I have grown to understand the reality of WvW, in large scale and well organized fights Tempest support provides a fraction of what Druid or Firebrand offer.

> > The healing difference is noticeable, but more so is the lack of boons (especially stability and cleanses).

> > Another large gap I have noticed is the utility of other supports vs Tempest. The projectile hate, buffing, and healing of other classes is for the most part local and/or ground target based. Auras are limited by proximity and number of allies. I find this to be Tempest's biggest drawback and appeal.

> > It allows for the unique stacking of effects on a few allies (fury/healing/regen/reflect) based on how you tune your build.

> > However it leaves them far less desirable in large fights where area control and mass buffing dominates the scene.

> > (You also must sacrifice either a lot of healing or protection application to gain fury/might stacks. No reliable stability also hurts)

> >

> > Tempest shines brightly as a roaming support, a favourite playstyle of mine. The spec is far from dead, but I would say it is not optimal for all situations. No elite class should be! Going back to an old statement along the lines of "elite specs are alternatives, not upgrades". Reaper is not an ideal support, Weaver is not an ideal bunker.

> > Just my little opinion after ~2 years of support play.

>

> Before people get a wrong idea, druid is actually a lot worse than tempest in large scale. Too low radius/range on heals, limited cleanses, no pulsing boons, CA reliant which charges slowly. I agree on everything else though.

 

Really? Were the nerfs that bad? I've noticed far less Druids in the last few months (still more than Tempests) but didn't thin they were in such a sorry state :anguished:

I thought the healing/projectile hate/spirit boons were more desirable. My mistake! I have one, but played it maybe once or twice at release.

[steki.1478]

> @"Retow.8475" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Retow.8475" said:

> > > WvW Tempest support here o/

> > > I find the most fun in small scale fights/roaming with friends. Dagger+Warhorn/Focus offers a large amount of utility and healing.

> > > However, when running in zergs I switch to staff healing, or off the class entirely in favour of Firebrand support.

> > > I love Tempest support more than any other build in this game (condition Mirage is a close second).

> > > However I have grown to understand the reality of WvW, in large scale and well organized fights Tempest support provides a fraction of what Druid or Firebrand offer.

> > > The healing difference is noticeable, but more so is the lack of boons (especially stability and cleanses).

> > > Another large gap I have noticed is the utility of other supports vs Tempest. The projectile hate, buffing, and healing of other classes is for the most part local and/or ground target based. Auras are limited by proximity and number of allies. I find this to be Tempest's biggest drawback and appeal.

> > > It allows for the unique stacking of effects on a few allies (fury/healing/regen/reflect) based on how you tune your build.

> > > However it leaves them far less desirable in large fights where area control and mass buffing dominates the scene.

> > > (You also must sacrifice either a lot of healing or protection application to gain fury/might stacks. No reliable stability also hurts)

> > >

> > > Tempest shines brightly as a roaming support, a favourite playstyle of mine. The spec is far from dead, but I would say it is not optimal for all situations. No elite class should be! Going back to an old statement along the lines of "elite specs are alternatives, not upgrades". Reaper is not an ideal support, Weaver is not an ideal bunker.

> > > Just my little opinion after ~2 years of support play.

> >

> > Before people get a wrong idea, druid is actually a lot worse than tempest in large scale. Too low radius/range on heals, limited cleanses, no pulsing boons, CA reliant which charges slowly. I agree on everything else though.

>

> Really? Were the nerfs that bad? I've noticed far less Druids in the last few months (still more than Tempests) but didn't thin they were in such a sorry state :anguished:

> I thought the healing/projectile hate/spirit boons were more desirable. My mistake! I have one, but played it maybe once or twice at release.

 

They were always kinda bad, especially after PoF because of their long duration warhorn boons which get corrupted instantly and no good uptime from other sources. Other problems existed since start, they were just more obvious when firebrand appeared.

[Garfried.7295]

I'm one of those what you call "build nazı's" on Vabbi. No matter how well you think your build is thought out, in reality it is very bad. There are many veteran players on Vabbi that are able to understand figthing meta and understand the difference between a build that feels useful and a build that is useful. Currently the large scale fighting meta builds are very well discussed and defined.

Part of the reason why vabbi is strong in open field fights is because many of our players accept this and try to contribute to the best of their ability by playing the meta builds and making sure the squad composition is well-balanced in this regard. As such, most Vabbi commanders consider people that insist on playing off-meta builds as toxic influences that don't want to contribute to the fighting ability of the zerg or the community. As a result they don't accept them in their squads. If you really want to play your build instead of contribute to the best of your ability, you are free to do so outside of it.

[Fizzee.1762]

Don't worry fox, relinks tomorrow and hopefully you get paired with a server who better suits your abilities/attitude.

Keep your fingers crossed for Piken eh?

 

Yes Weaver is hard to play well, however we have plenty enough GOOD weavers that we don't need more, and we certainly don't need tempest with bad builds and core eles who put out mediocre damage vs our weavers.

 

If we link with you again, I'd suggest you either transfer or play something else for a few months, as we are not going to suddenly be all "COME ONE COME ALL" as that is completely against what vabbi is built upon, ie. people actually putting in the effort to play decent builds well!

 

And for what it's worth, I've seen your character name on arcdps, you were getting out-performed by minstrel firebrands... and they offer more in terms of boons and healing too.