Swap Ele and Mesmer health pool

[Sunshine.5014]

Mesmer now has 11k base health.

Ele now has 15k base health.

[Sigmoid.7082]

I have yet to see a non-biased use of the poll function on this forum..

[EpicTurtle.8571]

And that's fair simply because one elite spec is currently overtuned? What if we had reduced Tempests or Druids base health to 5k because at one time they were unkillable nightmares?

[Allarius.5670]

This would be a poor solution to any problem and would not address any issues at their source.

[Hoodie.1045]

If ArenaNet isn't going to nerf the amount of utility the mesmer has, then I see no reason why they can't swap the health pool. Having evades, stealth, blocking, teleportation and overall better sustain than the elementalist on top of having a higher health pool is just ridiculous.

[DiogoSilva.7089]

> @"Allarius.5670" said:

> This would be a poor solution to any problem and would not address any issues at their source.

 

To be honest, this solution has been proposed by the community a few years ago, because mesmers had plenty of self-defensive skills while elementalists's ones were too stat-reliant. I find it interesting how it came back again, under a different context.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Allarius.5670" said:

> This would be a poor solution to any problem and would not address any issues at their source.

 

Yes it would.

 

Mesmers would have to take vitality amulets to make up for their plethora of active defenses.

 

Eles would finally be able to use amulets asides from marauders or menders.

 

This is a good change imo.

[Sunshine.5014]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Allarius.5670" said:

> > This would be a poor solution to any problem and would not address any issues at their source.

>

> Yes it would.

>

> Mesmers would have to take vitality amulets to make up for their plethora of active defenses.

>

> Eles would finally be able to use amulets asides from marauders or menders.

>

> This is a good change imo.

 

Exactly. This change means Mesmer now has some trade off when they go full Zerk. Before this change, they can go full Zerk and still has similar health pool as a Celestial bunker Ele, despite having way too many more active defense/blocks/evades/teleports.

 

Make them have trade off when they go full Zerk!

[Razor.6392]

I proposed this not long ago while sustaining my points better, it was still deemed as trash by the balance experts in these boards so good luck OP.

 

One obvious side effect for the mesmer side the is pve part and core mesmer, so it's not as easy as just a swap and forget. Realistically, it's never gonna happen.

 

It will forever remain a laughable matter how a class with so much mobility, blinds, stealth and now evades up the ass can have 15k base health, while ele who can only survive through healing power gets 11k.

[musu.9205]

sure why now , then we can finally have reason to give mes top dps in pve . and in pvp ele will still be bad . i support this stupid idea coz it will fix nothing but benefit my pve mesmer .

[musu.9205]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> If ArenaNet isn't going to nerf the amount of utility the mesmer has, then I see no reason why they can't swap the health pool. Having evades, stealth, blocking, teleportation and overall better sustain than the elementalist on top of having a higher health pool is just ridiculous.

 

i dont think you know what utility and sustain meann if you are talking about pvp .

mirage literally have one utility : portal , and one of worst heal skill , no passive heal or protection (unless you count that 1.5s protection )

 

[musu.9205]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> I proposed this not long ago while sustaining my points better, it was still deemed as trash by the balance experts in these boards so good luck OP.

>

> One obvious side effect for the mesmer side the is pve part and core mesmer, so it's not as easy as just a swap and forget. Realistically, it's never gonna happen.

>

> It will forever remain a laughable matter how a class with so much mobility, blinds, stealth and now evades up the kitten can have 15k base health, while ele who can only survive through healing power gets 11k.

 

you meant holosmith ?

[phs.6089]

Why stop there swap Warrior and Guardian as well plox

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > If ArenaNet isn't going to nerf the amount of utility the mesmer has, then I see no reason why they can't swap the health pool. Having evades, stealth, blocking, teleportation and overall better sustain than the elementalist on top of having a higher health pool is just ridiculous.

>

> i dont think you know what utility and sustain meann if you are talking about pvp .

> mirage literally have one utility : portal , and one of worst heal skill , no passive heal or protection (unless you count that 1.5s protection )

>

 

Do elementalists have teleportation that allies can use to traverse the maps? No.

 

Do they have clones/phantasms that they can reliably use to help them out in fights? No.

 

Block skills which can be used again if an enemy hits you while blocking? No.

 

Strong bursts from stealth? No and no.

 

Bottom line is, whether you consider that as utility or not, it doesn't change the fact that mesmers have a lot of things they can use during combat. They excel in pretty much any situation and they have no problems fighting all of the other professions.

[RUNICBLACK.7630]

Oh my God that would be so funny for an April Fool's day joke swap a few things for the day, particularly the Warrior's health pool for the Guardian's even if it was only for the day I'd have to go to the hospital I'd been laughing so hard at everybody freaking out.

 

Of course it wouldn't and shouldn't happen but it would be funny

[Sunshine.5014]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > I proposed this not long ago while sustaining my points better, it was still deemed as trash by the balance experts in these boards so good luck OP.

> >

> > One obvious side effect for the mesmer side the is pve part and core mesmer, so it's not as easy as just a swap and forget. Realistically, it's never gonna happen.

> >

> > It will forever remain a laughable matter how a class with so much mobility, blinds, stealth and now evades up the kitten can have 15k base health, while ele who can only survive through healing power gets 11k.

>

> you meant holosmith ?

 

> @"phs.6089" said:

> Why stop there swap Warrior and Guardian as well plox

 

Why should Guardian receive a HP buff?

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > If ArenaNet isn't going to nerf the amount of utility the mesmer has, then I see no reason why they can't swap the health pool. Having evades, stealth, blocking, teleportation and overall better sustain than the elementalist on top of having a higher health pool is just ridiculous.

>

> i dont think you know what utility and sustain meann if you are talking about pvp .

> mirage literally have one utility : portal , and one of worst heal skill , no passive heal or protection (unless you count that 1.5s protection )

>

 

There's a reason some mirage builds use Renewing Oasis & Mirage Mantle. It's exactly because you get high regen & protection uptime while you're spamming your evades. You don't even lose that much damage by giving up Riddle of Sand, and it's basically personal preference on whether you like Desert Distortion or Mirage Mantle.

 

and one of worst heal skill? it's literally as strong in terms of heal as ranger's Troll Unguent, and while ranger's just drop some cc field, yours give you a literal free dodge (that also synergizes with the above 2 traits btw) on top of more potential dodges with vigor. You sound like someone that either doesn't play mirage or some delusional mirage main that actually think mirages are bad when in reality it's just because you don't know how to play your spec.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I would go for it, tentatively; but only as a test. At face value, it doesn't solve the problem,

 

Shaving their HP makes their glass play more fragile, and would encourage them to spec tankier, but the main issue we have right now is not glass memsers but condi mirages that can snap out of stun at will.

 

You'd just force more people into the cheese. I'd rather see more glass shatter mesmers, so as I always say, priority should be balancing from the top before we reach into the innards of the core class.

 

Also, Weaver elementalists are already pseudobunkers. I'm not sure exacerbating that would be a step in the right direction.

[Math.5123]

> @"Sunshine.5014" said:

> > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > I proposed this not long ago while sustaining my points better, it was still deemed as trash by the balance experts in these boards so good luck OP.

> > >

> > > One obvious side effect for the mesmer side the is pve part and core mesmer, so it's not as easy as just a swap and forget. Realistically, it's never gonna happen.

> > >

> > > It will forever remain a laughable matter how a class with so much mobility, blinds, stealth and now evades up the kitten can have 15k base health, while ele who can only survive through healing power gets 11k.

> >

> > you meant holosmith ?

>

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > Why stop there swap Warrior and Guardian as well plox

>

> Why should Guardian receive a HP buff?

 

Because we deserve it.

 

On a more serious note though, core guardian could use a hp increase. They were designed way back when with blocks and protection in order to sustain. So many skills nowadays is unblockable and or rips boons. Making us forced into Valkyrie + radiance in order to survive and do damage.

 

I'd love to play a Marauder, or even zerk medi guard.

Maybe even a viper burn DH. The 11k base pool won't ever allow that however.

[DeceiverX.8361]

There's no option for "No, this doesn't actually fix anything."

 

The problem is that mirage is just thief++ in that it has asinine amounts of hit negation and spammable damage/mobility. Core mesmer is fine.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> Why stop there swap Warrior and Guardian as well plox

 

or rotate it: give rev the warrior hp, warrior the guard hp and guard the rev hp.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

Things this will not fix:

* Elusive Mind

* Blinding Dissipation & Ineptitude Combination

* Synergy between Sigils of Energy and Runes of the Adventurer

[musu.9205]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > If ArenaNet isn't going to nerf the amount of utility the mesmer has, then I see no reason why they can't swap the health pool. Having evades, stealth, blocking, teleportation and overall better sustain than the elementalist on top of having a higher health pool is just ridiculous.

> >

> > i dont think you know what utility and sustain meann if you are talking about pvp .

> > mirage literally have one utility : portal , and one of worst heal skill , no passive heal or protection (unless you count that 1.5s protection )

> >

>

> Do elementalists have teleportation that allies can use to traverse the maps? No.

>

> Do they have clones/phantasms that they can reliably use to help them out in fights? No.

>

> Block skills which can be used again if an enemy hits you while blocking? No.

>

> Strong bursts from stealth? No and no.

>

> Bottom line is, whether you consider that as utility or not, it doesn't change the fact that mesmers have a lot of things they can use during combat. They excel in pretty much any situation and they have no problems fighting all of the other professions.

 

> Do they have clones/phantasms that they can reliably use to help them out in fights? No.

clone and phantasms are literally mesmer class mechanic , you are like saying : do mesmers have shade that help them aoe down people. also don't put reliable and phantasms into same sentence . AI in this game are so bad .

 

still i asked the question : where is the utility and sustain on mirage you guys talked about ? and why asking that , because anet clearly give classes with high sustain low hp if you failed to notice the pattern . thief has low hp but that's due to stealth and their burst nature and no , mesmer doesn't have any where close to thief stealth uptime or burst . if you think otherwise , please list the traits ,skills and build .

if you meant defensive tools and burst, sure .

portal for utility with 90s cd ok . how much good portal play you have seen in past 2 years ?

tempest still offer ton of utility , it's not meta because FB is insanely broken . not because tempest has little utility .

sword waver has much much better sustain than mirage ,it does do decent level of damage too but its damage is far less reliable . and sword weaver has high evade uptime too if you didn't know . the problem is holo or war are better than sword weaver for its role .

 

fresh air takes ton of skill to play in today's meta ,but it has very unhealthy design .but hey it does have stronger burst than most power mesmer builds from range .

 

block on mirage ? unless you can take both mirage and chrono traitline its not happening .

this is why this forum is so beyond biased .

 

mirage needs to be nerfed , but can we try to target the real problem like EM or sword ambush instead of those pointless threads .

the actual bottom line is , mirage doesn't have everything , certainly not the double block against dumb players. So targeting the problem is important here . anet certainly shouldn't balance around your idea of " a lot of thing they can do " .

imagine patch note :

anet : we feel mesmer has a lot of things they can do like dressing up or type "mirage can block forever", so we randomly nerf things that sound uncool .

we also add many things for ele so they can do a lot of things now like making choice between op healing bot or op pve dps or play card : swap https://52f4e29a8321344e30ae-0f55c9129972ac85d6b1f4e703468e6b.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/products/pictures/1061660.jpg

[Refia Montes.3205]

people are forgetting that the best healers from both expansions are the ones with the lowest healthpool and bunker weaver is still a thing.

[Kovu.7560]

Sure, I'm sure unkillable elementalists would be less annoying than unkillable mesmers.

At least the former has to dedicate stats to being unkillable.

 

~ Kovu

 

edit- I like how both poll options are taking a shot at the Mesmer.