Question to the devs: Do you think this is fun?

[SmoothHussler.6387]

http://oi68.tinypic.com/35hpk5c.jpg

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Since you gave no context it’s hard to evaluate. Was that one person that did that or did you YOLO into a zerg in WvW and got roflstomped. .

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> Since you gave no context it’s hard to evaluate. Was that one person that did that or did you YOLO into a zerg in WvW and got roflstomped. .

 

He's talking about a Condi Mirage from the damage log. Just an educated guess.

[Hoodie.1045]

Condition players are never fun to fight against, especially if your profession lacks condition removal. Oh sure ArenaNet, remove Magi amulet to nerf support professions like the Druid, but you won't remove Rabid Amulet or any other condition damage amulet?

[Linken.6345]

but a theif backstabing for 10k+ is all fine and dandy.

[Zephire.8049]

So.... context?

 

Because 7838 damage over 3 seconds is not much unless you run 'zerker stats, are a glass cannon, and don't run a cleanse in PvP/WvW. Just by going by that screen, it looks like one person tagged you with some condis 3+ seconds earlier and nothing else happened, which is pretty dang tame considering what all is out there.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> Condition players are never fun to fight against, especially if your profession lacks condition removal. Oh sure ArenaNet, remove Magi amulet to nerf support professions like the Druid, but you won't remove Rabid Amulet or any other condition damage amulet?

 

No one runs Rabid Amulet anyway.

 

It's far more unhealthy to have combat that stalls out endlessly than to have combat with explosive lethality. Which druid could do 1v2 against any combination of classes.

[aspirine.6852]

Well for the next fight bring some condi removal? And to make sure just bring a lot of it.

[FyzE.3472]

I run a one-shot build and got one-shotted! Please nerf the other guy, this is not fun!

[SmoothHussler.6387]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > Since you gave no context it’s hard to evaluate. Was that one person that did that or did you YOLO into a zerg in WvW and got roflstomped. .

>

> He's talking about a Condi Mirage from the damage log. Just an educated guess.

 

Yes its a condi mirage, but the same question can be raised for condi in general and that's actually what I was intending.

 

Conditions are completely out of control and have been for years. AOE spammable, passive-ambient condition application with no tells and way outstripping anti-condi measures like cleanse and resistance.

 

Anet just doesn't seem to get that conditions are supposed to be ancillary damage. Tanky condi specs are just the absolute worst. I can't emphasize how un-fun it is to play against.

 

[SmoothHussler.6387]

> @"FyzE.3472" said:

> I run a one-shot build and got one-shotted! Please nerf the other guy, this is not fun!

 

I don't mind a high-risk high-reward build. Tanky condi with runes and sigils that are wayyyy above what power builds get, and the general way conditions are applied is not "one shotted" kind of complaints. I don't complain about someone who's glass and can kill or die in 1 shot. I am bothered by tanky condi builds which reward but with come with little risk or counter-play.

 

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"SmoothHussler.6387" said:

> Conditions are completely out of control and have been for years.

No, they're not. Most professions don't even _have_ viable condition builds any more. You're just getting mad at necromancers or mesmers and lashing out at conditions in general. I don't know why people do this, when they think a power build is overpowered they attack _that build_, they don't lash out at power damage in general.

 

It's almost like people get offended when killed by conditions, it's so bizarre.

[STIHL.2489]

There is really a problem with conditions in this game truth be told.

 

It has to do with the fact that Power Based Damage requires 3 Stats to Optimize, while Condition Damage only Requires 1, with with Expertise being somewhat possibly usable stat in PvE, but PvP the fights will very seldom if ever last long enough for condition duration to become a factor.

 

Equally so.. there is a defensive stat that targets Power, Toughness, not to mention a slew of abilities, like Aegis, Protection, that block physical attacks outright, with totally negate the damage.

 

Unlike Resistance, which does not remove the Condition or Stop the condition or the damage from the condition, it just delays effect for a short moment, they condition will remain.

 

Vitality is not a counter to Condition, it is just a pool of HP that can be applied to any situation, a catch all, anything from falling to getting hit.. so that is not a counter to conditions at all.

 

TLDR:

Power Requires 3 Stats to do Optimal Damage, and has 1 defensive Stat, and at least 2 Abilities that can totally negate their damage.

 

Condition: Requires 1 stats to Optimal Damage, has 0 Defensive Stats against it, and only 1 ability that can negate it.

 

The fact that Anet has been constantly ramping up the damage that Conditions do over time has totally imbalanced them in the game.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Since they tweaked the ramp up time, vitality IS a counter to condition damage. Especially with cleanse.

 

Is it as good as toughness vs power? Not quite.

 

Bring healing power and vitality. Toughness is overrated. Especially as a warrior.

[Dante.1763]

The only thing i see wrong with condition damage is the lack of cleanses, and the ones that do exist dont cleanse enough. I love condition builds, i run them, but nobody ever bitches when i kill them with a damn power build in 2-3 hits, faster than i do with my condition builds.

[Henry.5713]

Pretty sure your enemy had a lot of fun there.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Taking damage is not fun. But part of the game. And the numbers I see there are far from extreme.

 

Do I think it is fun to run through half a WvW borderland map with my Elementalist to get to our commander, just to be backstabbed and killed by some stealthed enemy? I think no. But I guess the thief(?) is very much enjoying him/herself.

[BadSanta.6527]

Condition is somewhat ok but Condi mirage is not

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Zephire.8049" said:

> So.... context?

>

> Because 7838 damage over 3 seconds is not much unless you run 'zerker stats, are a glass cannon, and don't run a cleanse in PvP/WvW. Just by going by that screen, it looks like one person tagged you with some condis 3+ seconds earlier and nothing else happened, which is pretty dang tame considering what all is out there.

 

And even is you are running a glass cannon Ele its only slightly above half your health.. ( well maybe closer to 2/3) but it is far from fatal.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> There is really a problem with conditions in this game truth be told.

>

> It has to do with the fact that Power Based Damage requires 3 Stats to Optimize, while Condition Damage only Requires 1, with with Expertise being somewhat possibly usable stat in PvE, but PvP the fights will very seldom if ever last long enough for condition duration to become a factor.

>

> Equally so.. there is a defensive stat that targets Power, Toughness, not to mention a slew of abilities, like Aegis, Protection, that block physical attacks outright, with totally negate the damage.

>

> Unlike Resistance, which does not remove the Condition or Stop the condition or the damage from the condition, it just delays effect for a short moment, they condition will remain.

>

> Vitality is not a counter to Condition, it is just a pool of HP that can be applied to any situation, a catch all, anything from falling to getting hit.. so that is not a counter to conditions at all.

>

> TLDR:

> Power Requires 3 Stats to do Optimal Damage, and has 1 defensive Stat, and at least 2 Abilities that can totally negate their damage.

>

> Condition: Requires 1 stats to Optimal Damage, has 0 Defensive Stats against it, and only 1 ability that can negate it.

>

> The fact that Anet has been constantly ramping up the damage that Conditions do over time has totally imbalanced them in the game.

 

You're talking like we don't all know how this works. Resistance doesn't remove the condition. It just makes you invuln...which actual invuln does not. Fair, wouldn't you say? But if you do want to remove the condition, we have cleanses for that as well.

 

You don't need to be misleading to make your case. Or,if you do, perhaps your argument isn't very good?

[ProtoGunner.4953]

> @"SmoothHussler.6387" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > Since you gave no context it’s hard to evaluate. Was that one person that did that or did you YOLO into a zerg in WvW and got roflstomped. .

> >

> > He's talking about a Condi Mirage from the damage log. Just an educated guess.

>

> Yes its a condi mirage, but the same question can be raised for condi in general and that's actually what I was intending.

>

> Conditions are completely out of control and have been for years. AOE spammable, passive-ambient condition application with no tells and way outstripping anti-condi measures like cleanse and resistance.

>

> Anet just doesn't seem to get that conditions are supposed to be ancillary damage. Tanky condi specs are just the absolute worst. I can't emphasize how un-fun it is to play against.

>

 

Yeah, just play a condi yourself and get along with it for the time being.

[intox.6347]

So what exactly is problem with condi ? coz if count mirage ... its problem itself... doesnt matter if condi or power variant.

Im roaming a lot, and for me is bigger problem power mes than condi mes (doesnt matter variant of spec)

 

So if i put mesmer out.... what other classes in condi variant makes you problems in duel ?

All other are power .... except scourge .. which is really bad 1v1.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > There is really a problem with conditions in this game truth be told.

> >

> > It has to do with the fact that Power Based Damage requires 3 Stats to Optimize, while Condition Damage only Requires 1, with with Expertise being somewhat possibly usable stat in PvE, but PvP the fights will very seldom if ever last long enough for condition duration to become a factor.

> >

> > Equally so.. there is a defensive stat that targets Power, Toughness, not to mention a slew of abilities, like Aegis, Protection, that block physical attacks outright, with totally negate the damage.

> >

> > Unlike Resistance, which does not remove the Condition or Stop the condition or the damage from the condition, it just delays effect for a short moment, they condition will remain.

> >

> > Vitality is not a counter to Condition, it is just a pool of HP that can be applied to any situation, a catch all, anything from falling to getting hit.. so that is not a counter to conditions at all.

> >

> > TLDR:

> > Power Requires 3 Stats to do Optimal Damage, and has 1 defensive Stat, and at least 2 Abilities that can totally negate their damage.

> >

> > Condition: Requires 1 stats to Optimal Damage, has 0 Defensive Stats against it, and only 1 ability that can negate it.

> >

> > The fact that Anet has been constantly ramping up the damage that Conditions do over time has totally imbalanced them in the game.

>

> You're talking like we don't all know how this works. Resistance doesn't remove the condition. It just makes you invuln...which actual invuln does not. Fair, wouldn't you say? But if you do want to remove the condition, we have cleanses for that as well.

>

> You don't need to be misleading to make your case. Or,if you do, perhaps your argument isn't very good?

 

There is nothing misleading in my post, it is 100% accurate, if there is confusion, it is on the users end.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"intox.6347" said:

> So what exactly is problem with condi ? coz if count mirage ... its problem itself... doesnt matter if condi or power variant.

> Im roaming a lot, and for me is bigger problem power mes than condi mes (doesnt matter variant of spec)

>

> So if i put mesmer out.... what other classes in condi variant makes you problems in duel ?

> All other are power .... except scourge .. which is really bad 1v1.

 

The Main problem with Condi at this point, is that Anet ramped up the damage it can do in short bursts of time, without putting in enough effective counters to it, making it harder to counter and far more powerful then Power Based Build.

 

The fact that Condi only requires 1 stat to Maximize it's damage output, allows a player to go full condi and still maximize their survival stats (Vitality+ Added Stat), where a Power based build need to chose between survival stats or damage output.

 

This was not as big a problem till Anet started to really increase the burst damage that conditions can do.

[Sigmoid.7082]

It always amazes me that when it comes to this discussion conditions are somehow immune to being blocked, blinded, invulned , evade and these somehow only apply to power damage.