WvW Change Requests

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Neural.1824" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

>

> > Explain **why** the Gift of Battle change was so important that it should be handled **differently than all of their other previous announcements of upcoming changes**.

>

> That's easy. People who weren't (through fault of their own or not) informed would have liked to have cashed out their badges by buying several GoB's before the NPC was removed.

>

>

 

That didn't address my question. See the part I just bolded. There are people treating this change as somehow different from other changes and that it should have been handled differently.

 

> @"Shostie.6435" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > So you’re saying most people read the patch notes and/or other media in relation to GW2? If “unwilling” and “ignore” are not options then...

>

> No, I'm saying the opposite of that. Most players don't read patch notes or any other media related to GW2.

>

> Your use of "unwilling" and "ignore" is bizarre. For all of the media in existence that you have not consumed, would you characterize yourself as being "unwilling" to consume it? Would you say that you are "ignoring" it? I wouldn't.

 

Yes, there are a ton of media but the ones I'm referring to are very narrow. These forums and reddit are where people tend to get their information and it was discussed there.

 

> > But was this something worth doing for Anet beyond their announcement of it and the coverage that it received? As someone else stated, when has Anet given notifications of upcoming changes through the in-game mail?

>

> Another appeal to tradition. If something has not been done in the past, does that mean it cannot or should not be done in the future?

>

> You should be asking questions like: What is the marginal cost of composing and sending an in-game email to all players? What percentage of the player base was negatively impacted by the change? And to what extent were they negatively impacted? Those are valid questions. Appeals to tradition are pointless, unless you're a politician.

 

No. Don't dodge the question. Why was this change any different from other changes Anet has made? Hiding behind a logical fallacy isn't going to help you here.

 

 

 

> @"Shostie.6435" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Shostie.6435" said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > And yet you assingning an opinion to someone else is ok?

> > >

> > > I'm not sure what you mean by "okay". I asked why you were being hostile. I didn't say being hostile was wrong. People sometimes have very good reasons for being hostile.

> > >

> > > > I simply noted that two months notice is long enough. Other major changes that, arguably, impacted people more were not even noted and certainly appeared to not be considered.

> > >

> > > Both of these arguments are very weak.

> > >

> > > Duration is irrelevant. The problem was ArenaNet got the message out to only a small portion of the player base. If a player never gets the message, it doesn't matter if ArenaNet gives 1 week notice or 1 year notice. The result is the same, a lack of action due to a lack of information.

> > >

> > > The fact that ArenaNet has made other significant changes with inadequate notice is a terrible argument for justifying the inadequate notice on this change. If you see someone complaining about how a pothole damaged their car, do you argue against repairing the pothole because a different pothole damaged your car in the past? Should ArenaNet never improve its communication because you feel you were cheated by ArenaNet in the past?

> > >

> > > > You noted people could have been informed via an in game mail message.

> > > >

> > > > How many updates that have been put out, has Anet pre-informed the playerbase of upcoming changes with an in-game mail?

> > > >

> > > > I know of none, but I could be mistaken.

> > > >

> > > > It is not a feasible option.

> > >

> > > ArenaNet hasn't been using in-game mail to inform players about "upcoming" changes, but they have used in-game mail to inform players about changes when they go live (the wallet being one example off the top of my head). The fact that ArenaNet hasn't used in-game mail to inform players about "upcoming" changes to things like currencies is a really weak argument against it. Your argument is just an appeal to tradition.

> > >

> > > I can't imagine a system where sending in-game mail about major changes that have gone live is feasible, but sending in-game mail about major changes that will go live soon is not feasible. Could you describe such a system?

> >

> > Explain **why** the Gift of Battle change was so important that it should be handled differently than all of their other previous announcements of upcoming changes.

>

> First of all, I don't know that the Gift of Battle change was unique. The reason ArenaNet should have handled this differently than most (not all) changes is because the change resulted in a massive devaluation of a currency (Badges of Honor). If you don't read news or notes about a balance patch, for example, you don't really lose anything. You get the changes when the patch goes live just like all other players regardless of whether or not you read the patch notes. Changes that devalue a currency are absolutely different in this respect. If you don't get the information, you lose out. In other words, information about currency devaluations are time-sensitive and have far more economic value than most other information ArenaNet publishes.

>

> If there have been other massive currency devaluations in the past that I'm unaware of, I would make the same argument. ArenaNet should have put forth more effort to inform the player base. And when there is inevitably another currency devaluations in the future, I believe ArenaNet should put forth more effort to inform the player base.

 

Economic value? They had very little as they couldn't be converted to gold at a rate that matters. Massive devaluations? No, not really. HoT added a lot more uses for that currency such as the ability to buy food and utility buffs. I want to say that the ability to buy discounted cultural armor came with HoT but I have a feeling it was added later. They're also needed for guild upgrades as well the legendary backpack. So they still have a ton of value except for those who only cared about legendary weapons.

[Granicus.2406]

I agree with the OP 1000 % here. I've played GW/GW2 since 2005. I get that some people like WvW & PvP, and good for them. I never have (and never will). Tried WvW a few times and found it unsatisfying. I should not be *forced* to play WvW just to get Legendary weapons. IMO, the process went from bad to worse. But then I've also believed from the beginning that ANet should have made two different games and kept PvE separate.

 

As paying customers, stop trying to force us to play aspects of the game we do not like. And I have observed some of the referenced abuse over the years. Not sure how things are now there, but ANet shouldnt subject their customers to this. Some could say "then dont go for a Legendary if you dont like it" but again, the precedent was set, the process changed (for the worse IMO), and people who do not like one aspect of the game should not be forced to play others. Have separate processes for each area, and restrict the weapon use in those areas, if necessary..

[artemis.6781]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Has it actually hindered **anyone** from getting their legendary?

>

> No really, I am curious if anyone spent like 1500 gold, got to the WvW stage and saw that they had to play WvW for like... a couple of days... and that's when they just said *"kitten it aint doing this kitten I am throwing away my precursor this isnt worth it I'm not making this legendary anymore"* and just gave up on it.

>

> *Anyone care to step forward?*

 

LMAO and that's exactly what I did! I threw my 2 precursors on the market. I was working on my second Masters when the change appearantly was made. So yeah, I decided asended is the way to go. After all, the skins from the gem store are much more appealing and swapping stats is no big deal in the forge.

[Solaris.2489]

Or just make Gift of Battle of tradeable. As a main wvwler I would sell em for like 10-15g on tp. Obviously the reason they made it like this is to force people to try wvw, but even now its not a big deal. Get all the reward track boosts and then just flip flags/camps or run with a zerg, do the wvw dailies for potions and try to keep participation at +160-195.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Solaris.2489" said:

> Or just make Gift of Battle of tradeable. As a main wvwler I would sell em for like 10-15g on tp. Obviously the reason they made it like this is to force people to try wvw, but even now its not a big deal. Get all the reward track boosts and then just flip flags/camps or run with a zerg, do the wvw dailies for potions and try to keep participation at +160-195.

 

Yup...4 hours is what mine took the last time i did it, still four hours i could have spent doing stuff i want to do. Hell, let me trade GoE im gonna have a bunch of them that i will literally never need.

[azizul.8469]

i have 2 Gift of Battle sitting in my bank that i got from doing dailies alone. You can easily get 1 in one day focus play. Current implementation is fine.

[preacher.9370]

As a PvE scrub, i'd like to throw my two cents in on this. Up until recently, the only thing I ever entered WvW for was to knock out a GoB reward track. A while back, looking at locked skins in the wardrobe, I saw the medium Triumphant Hero shoulders, glove and boots (before there was a way to get them), I knocked out that reward track 3 times, got the exotics unlocked, and waited. And waited... then those were added to the game finally, decided it was more work then I wanted to put in. Well, finally a couple months back, I finally put forth the effort and got those three ascended triumphant hero armors. Fast forward: for the first time since its implementation, I have maxed out my skirmish tickets for the week, missing only the ascended triumphant legs (just need tickets), have two GoB in my bank, and working on another. I even am kicking around the idea of going all the way and making the set legendary. Would rather just have the sublime chest pieces, but my rank is a long ways off from that :(

 

Anyways, guess i'm saying, try to put some serious effort into it, you may find you end up liking it. Other then GoB I stayed away from it to now considering making a legendary armor set from there. I used to just follow the zerg (well, still do for the most part), but I've joined a WvW guild now, contemplating changing from damage to healer to be more useful (I can only play ranger/soulbeast decently, have tried others but I don't last as long on them).

 

Some where along the way, I changed from having a GoB be my hold up on legendaries because i dreaded having to get one to honestly putting effort into the game mode.

[Klypto.1703]

If they made it any easier to get they would just stick a box of them in lions arch and you would pick them up out of the box.

[artemis.6781]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Solaris.2489" said:

> > Or just make Gift of Battle of tradeable. As a main wvwler I would sell em for like 10-15g on tp. Obviously the reason they made it like this is to force people to try wvw, but even now its not a big deal. Get all the reward track boosts and then just flip flags/camps or run with a zerg, do the wvw dailies for potions and try to keep participation at +160-195.

>

> Yup...4 hours is what mine took the last time i did it, still four hours i could have spent doing stuff i want to do. Hell, let me trade GoE im gonna have a bunch of them that i will literally never need.

 

I'd love to trade my GoE for GoB. I personally find map exploration fun and relaxing. I loathe any type of PvP.

[meowtier.1364]

> @"Granicus.2406" said:

> I agree with the OP 1000 % here. I've played GW/GW2 since 2005. I get that some people like WvW & PvP, and good for them. I never have (and never will). Tried WvW a few times and found it unsatisfying. I should not be *forced* to play WvW just to get Legendary weapons. IMO, the process went from bad to worse. But then I've also believed from the beginning that ANet should have made two different games and kept PvE separate.

>

> As paying customers, stop trying to force us to play aspects of the game we do not like. And I have observed some of the referenced abuse over the years. Not sure how things are now there, but ANet shouldnt subject their customers to this. Some could say "then dont go for a Legendary if you dont like it" but again, the precedent was set, the process changed (for the worse IMO), and people who do not like one aspect of the game should not be forced to play others. Have separate processes for each area, and restrict the weapon use in those areas, if necessary..

 

Just because you paid money for the game doesn't mean you shouldn't have to do things to get something just because you don't like it. I'm not really a fan of PvE anymore but I'm forced to do it if I want to have access to a lot of stuff in the game other than just legendaries. Part of playing a game is doing what is required in the game. It's just something you have to deal with.

Besides, PvE has just as much "abuse" as WvW.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Shostie.6435" said:

 

> Duration is irrelevant. The problem was ArenaNet got the message out to only a small portion of the player base. If a player never gets the message, it doesn't matter if ArenaNet gives 1 week notice or 1 year notice. The result is the same, a lack of action due to a lack of information.

 

 

The information was sent out to every player. Some choose to not partake of the information provided.

[STIHL.2489]

If you can get a GoB purely by PvE means already.. I stand by original idea regarding reward tracks.

 

Let people play what they like.. the world won't end.

[dolcolax.1268]

> @"Granicus.2406" said:

> I agree with the OP 1000 % here. I've played GW/GW2 since 2005. I get that some people like WvW & PvP, and good for them. I never have (and never will). Tried WvW a few times and found it unsatisfying. I should not be *forced* to play WvW just to get Legendary weapons. IMO, the process went from bad to worse. But then I've also believed from the beginning that ANet should have made two different games and kept PvE separate.

>

> As paying customers, stop trying to force us to play aspects of the game we do not like. And I have observed some of the referenced abuse over the years. Not sure how things are now there, but ANet shouldnt subject their customers to this. Some could say "then dont go for a Legendary if you dont like it" but again, the precedent was set, the process changed (for the worse IMO), and people who do not like one aspect of the game should not be forced to play others. Have separate processes for each area, and restrict the weapon use in those areas, if necessary..

 

actually wvw players are paying customers too.

probably milked players from transfers and because back then we have to use our personal hard earned gold to upgrade objectives, and back then there were no reward tracks and one probably lost money just by playing wvw, maybe just maybe some people converted gems to gold. still nowadays, wvw players HAVE to step out of their PREFERRED game mode to get gold, skins, ascended stuff to max their build. i actually dont see any wvwer make any threads about this as often as pvers complain about gob.

 

like i said before, tomorrow is the start of the wvw event, wherein you can get as much as 100% bonus to reward track(if my math is correct)

 

event bonus 25%

laurel booster 50%

birthday booster 10%

guild wvw reward track booster 10%

wvw reward track enrichment 5%

plus you get reward track potions from pip rewards. also with these many boosters active you can wvw ranks pretty easily.

 

event 100%

laurel 50%

bday 100%(or was it 50%)

 

[Israel.7056]

I agree that GoB should be removed from WvW. I absolutely hate PvErs who come into WvW just to try to farm a reward track and they hate having to do it. No one wins.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> I agree that GoB should be removed from WvW. I absolutely hate PvErs who come into WvW just to try to farm a reward track and they hate having to do it. No one wins.

 

Not removed.. I think Reward Tracks for all content need to be put in, so that players can do what they enjoy at a pace that is good for them, and still make progress towards any goal.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > @"Palador.2170" said:

> > Also, as someone that HATES WvW and can't seem to make decent progress on the GoB for the Bolt I'm trying to create... I reluctantly say that the reward track is the right way to go... the FIRST TIME. If someone clears the whole track and still doesn't enjoy WvW, then having a different way to get the second+ GoBs might not be a bad idea.

>

> Probably the most salient point. If the goal is to get players to *try* WvW, the design is sound. If by the end of the first GoB track, a player isn't invested, *then WvW has failed that player and the player is not going to be interested.*

> I am one such player. Tried it. Hated it. Too much walking, not enough point-gains or rewards, and certainly not enough to be dealing with mobs of cheap-build enemy players and commanders puttering around or deliberately porting everywhere just to be a nuisance. Nothing but zerg or covert cheating as "strategy". Criticisms are many, benefits are few, so why not allow those who finish a track to buy or exchange for GoB?

>

>

 

Ok. I tried map exploration and hated it too, can I has a different way of doing world completion?

[LetoII.3782]

Really, Anet needs to offer all the legendaries as selectable options with game purchase.

I'd really rather not have to play the game, I just want shinies. I bought the game, just give me all the achievements because effort is hard..

[XenesisII.1540]

Gais what's going on in here? I thought we got past this already?

 

Also if you don't want to do the reward track, if you only want to buy the gift with wvw currency you don't even earn in wvw, you might as well just ask them to take this part out wvw altogether and stop asking for workarounds.

 

I guess it's perfectly ok to spend 48hrs to earn the gift of exploration, but 6-8 hours of mostly afking to earn a reward track is too much to ask.

 

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

Gift of Exploration has another problem. you need a new character to do it. GoB is repeatable.

but its boring to be AFK in WvW and doesnt help at all.

[Optimator.3589]

Gift of Maguuma Mastery or Gift of Desert Mastery is FAR more painful than anything else in legendary crafting. We have to play your game mode for god knows how many hours to grind these things out for 2nd gen leggies, or we have to do 17 million hearts for a GIft of Exploration....yeah, no sympathy. You PvEers can play our game mode for like 5 hours, get your Gift of Battle, and be on your way.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> The Gift of Battle is honestly the easiest part of legendary weapons. For most of the time there's hardly anything going on for the home maps that you can run around maintaining T6 participation with absolutely zero pvp for hours. You can even just use a build designed around running away and only killing npcs too, especially given most roamers have friends so you wouldn't really want to 1v1 anyone as it quickly becomes a 1v3+.

>

> While yes, people do rage, trash talk, etc, it is mostly done on one of the maps which you do not have to be on for the reward track or even pips. When you understand how the WvW reward system works you can actually be mostly afk for a few hours and get your Gift of Battle with no effort at all.

>

> These issues are also not because WvW "isn't" guild focused, these are all simply the nature of open world pvp content, and being in a guild when it's guild focused doesn't solve the problem while creating problems for those not in a guild or want to be involved in a large group. As well as the fact that guild mates are not synonymous with being friends.

>

> I'm not even really a WvWer, I mostly prefer PvE and S-PvP.

 

Ofc if you are going to afk after getting t6, do so in a different map like OS or DBL (where there are typically fewer players) :p

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> Ok. I tried map exploration and hated it too, can I has a different way of doing world completion?

 

See, y'think that's cute and sarcastic, but my unsarcastic answer has always been "YES!"

And it's not like you can't buy waypoints and hero challenges already.

 

But I will always, always advocate a Gift exchange as a way to trade off Gifts of Battle or Exploration.

It could be a vendor that swaps x=4 Battle for 1 Exploration.

Or just make Gifts tradeable. The PvP tokens that contribute to Glory and the *other WvW tokens (why are we doing this twice, ANet?)* are also purchaseable from the trading post.

I say let players do what they like more (at least in the domains of PvE v PvP v WvW) and stop trying to drag players who *don't want to be there* into players *who don't want unmotivated allies*.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

I knew one of these threads will pop up soon.

I suggested adding some fractal stuff to WvW track and people were like nah.

Well now you asking for GoB.....nah, i really hope Anet doesn't listen to you.

Its fine as is.

If you don't want to go with a tag on mao then its not very hard to stay in your 1/3 and run a dolyak from a tower to keep and get a) Work towards an Achievement b) earn points towards your GoB reward track.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > Ok. I tried map exploration and hated it too, can I has a different way of doing world completion?

>

> See, y'think that's cute and sarcastic, but my unsarcastic answer has always been "YES!"

> And it's not like you can't buy waypoints and hero challenges already.

>

> But I will always, always advocate a Gift exchange as a way to trade off Gifts of Battle or Exploration.

> It could be a vendor that swaps x=4 Battle for 1 Exploration.

> Or just make Gifts tradeable. The PvP tokens that contribute to Glory and the *other WvW tokens (why are we doing this twice, ANet?)* are also purchaseable from the trading post.

> I say let players do what they like more (at least in the domains of PvE v PvP v WvW) and stop trying to drag players who *don't want to be there* into players *who don't want unmotivated allies*.

 

Ahhh.. But an unmotivated player that wanders out of spawn becomes a nice bag. Oh. It also adds 10 minutes to my participation timer as well.

 

It's a legendary weapon. Get the gifts to get the shiny.

 

Problem solved!

 

Or... run silverwastes For days and buy one. Need that gen two? Ahh. Oh well.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> I knew one of these threads will pop up soon.

> I suggested adding some fractal stuff to WvW track and people were like nah.

> Well now you asking for GoB.....nah, i really hope Anet doesn't listen to you.

> Its fine as is.

> If you don't want to go with a tag on mao then its not very hard to stay in your 1/3 and run a dolyak from a tower to keep and get a) Work towards an Achievement b) earn points towards your GoB reward track.

 

I will back this up as I remember seeing a lot of PvE'ers against adding fractal stuff as well as others. I personally think it should stay the way it is. WvW'ers need to do PvE for big things they want, its only fair for PvE'ers to to do WvW to get big things they want. Its only fair. If they change it so there is a fractal track or a raid track then im down for ways to get GoB in PvE.