Can we have something done with shield gens already?

[Djamonja.6453]

All those shield gens at the back can be disabled from behind with the bubbles up -- you just make sure you don't throw the disabler through the bubble, but make sure the shield gens are in the ground targeted disable-circle.

[atheria.2837]

> @"Samug.6512" said:

> https://ibb.co/gUqG0J

> I know there's very little visible in the Screenshot, but under this bubble there is:

> 7 rams

> 2 golems

> 70 enemy players

> 4 shield gens.

> It's impossible to defend - ACs don't work because of shield generators. Rams, golems and shield generator are covered by the bubble all the time, so it's close to impossible to disable anything.

> Can we get shield generator minimum range extended please?

 

No, it's not impossible, I've taken them down many times like that.

 

Yes, it take coordination but it isn't impossible.

 

100 against 100 is fair.

 

25 against 70 isn't in most cases because it takes numbers to take down those gennies and the rest of the siege bombarding your own troops.

 

I get what you are saying, but it's a balance problem, not a siege problem.

[Substance E.4852]

Shield gens were just another example of poor game design meant to give underdogs a leg up but only ends up giving the superior force even more power.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"atheria.2837" said:

> > @"Samug.6512" said:

> > https://ibb.co/gUqG0J

> > I know there's very little visible in the Screenshot, but under this bubble there is:

> > 7 rams

> > 2 golems

> > 70 enemy players

> > 4 shield gens.

> > It's impossible to defend - ACs don't work because of shield generators. Rams, golems and shield generator are covered by the bubble all the time, so it's close to impossible to disable anything.

> > Can we get shield generator minimum range extended please?

>

> No, it's not impossible, I've taken them down many times like that.

>

> Yes, it take coordination but it isn't impossible.

>

> 100 against 100 is fair.

>

> 25 against 70 isn't in most cases because it takes numbers to take down those gennies and the rest of the siege bombarding your own troops.

>

> I get what you are saying, but it's a balance problem, not a siege problem.

 

No no.

 

People say that 5 can stop 25. So, 25 sure can stop up to 125.

[reddie.5861]

> @"Limodriver.4106" said:

> see the problem is here ppl just want to nerf everything like the no downstate is too hard we want more easy mode wvw, serious if u really want to take out those shield generator u can just go do suicide mission and kill them urself.

 

hmmm? shield gens havent been ingame for years..

he doesnt wanna nerf them hes just pointing out if placed correctly they can shield them self and entire blob which i find bullshit also.

yes i hate deffensive siege, but when ur out numbered and know straight up fight ur gonna lose u cant hammer them with some AC's? and put cata/treb behind the door to push em off rams/destroy em.

 

your saying moment u know its pointless to go out to fight u should just port off and let them take it.

 

 

personally im not a guy who deffends shit or give a rats ass about upgrading.

but if ur goal is to deffend stuff and upgrade crap and let say 50 people come to your structure and u have 30 random people around you but no tag u can deffend it if u build few AC's and start picking on em. So yes in this case shield gen is retarded OP not giving you chance to do anything if u cant win the fight without sieges.

[Arioch.6507]

Misleading title, was expecting to chime in on the pro's of adding dye channels to shield gens.

[hunkamania.7561]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > Without shield gens it would be hard to take anything these days.

> > >

> > > Is it? 3 rams or catas burn through structures pretty faster.

> >

> > Disables, AC's and fortified gates and walls say otherwise.

>

> Ac's? lol, what game do you play. Before an ac has got only a fifth of a ram or catas health they are inside at the next gate. With shield gens they wont even touch the rams or catas. If you even survive the onslaught the blob can do to any person on a AC unless it's placed real high, this is not the case at all keeps or towers :/

> Disables are fine, indeed. They do not always work though.

 

3 to 4 ac's will shrek people on rams. Very hard to survive. If there is a blob and the defenders are heavily outnumbered that's a population balance issue. Defenders have the advantage and this thread they're asking for even more of an advantage which is laughable. Shield gens have to be rotated perfectly and can be disabled or hit so there is counterplay. Don't see an issue here.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"aspirine.6852" said:

> They should only be available inside structures.

 

THey shoould increase the limit radios to avoid the proxy clustering...

And if damage/offensive siege is deployed and used near each other they should damage each other, like cluster rams, cluster proxy catapults, and all those similar situations.

[Substance E.4852]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > They should only be available inside structures.

>

> THey shoould increase the limit radios to avoid the proxy clustering...

> And if damage/offensive siege is deployed and used near each other they should damage each other, like cluster rams, cluster proxy catapults, and all those similar situations.

 

While a good idea in theory, you're basically asking for friendly fire on siege.

 

It was bad enough when you had people spamming balistas on gates to get people to waste siege.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > They should only be available inside structures.

> >

> > THey shoould increase the limit radios to avoid the proxy clustering...

> > And if damage/offensive siege is deployed and used near each other they should damage each other, like cluster rams, cluster proxy catapults, and all those similar situations.

>

> While a good idea in theory, you're basically asking for friendly fire on siege.

>

> It was bad enough when you had people spamming balistas on gates to get people to waste siege.

 

Yeah that m8 be true, but then make it that proxy catas take their own aoe damage if built to close only rather than all siege have this property and Anet could create a restriction area for drop siege on top of siege, probably 320-360 radios could work, cause atm we have ac's or catas piled in onther siege :\...

[reddie.5861]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > Without shield gens it would be hard to take anything these days.

> > > >

> > > > Is it? 3 rams or catas burn through structures pretty faster.

> > >

> > > Disables, AC's and fortified gates and walls say otherwise.

> >

> > Ac's? lol, what game do you play. Before an ac has got only a fifth of a ram or catas health they are inside at the next gate. With shield gens they wont even touch the rams or catas. If you even survive the onslaught the blob can do to any person on a AC unless it's placed real high, this is not the case at all keeps or towers :/

> > Disables are fine, indeed. They do not always work though.

>

> 3 to 4 ac's will shrek people on rams. Very hard to survive. If there is a blob and the defenders are heavily outnumbered that's a population balance issue. Defenders have the advantage and this thread they're asking for even more of an advantage which is laughable. Shield gens have to be rotated perfectly and can be disabled or hit so there is counterplay. Don't see an issue here.

 

deffenders have advantage? is NA different then europe? deffenders cant do anything vs a blob get near the wall and ur dead or pulled off and ur still dead. u cant actually deffend anything properly in gw2 if u cant win a straight up fight.

[hunkamania.7561]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > > Without shield gens it would be hard to take anything these days.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is it? 3 rams or catas burn through structures pretty faster.

> > > >

> > > > Disables, AC's and fortified gates and walls say otherwise.

> > >

> > > Ac's? lol, what game do you play. Before an ac has got only a fifth of a ram or catas health they are inside at the next gate. With shield gens they wont even touch the rams or catas. If you even survive the onslaught the blob can do to any person on a AC unless it's placed real high, this is not the case at all keeps or towers :/

> > > Disables are fine, indeed. They do not always work though.

> >

> > 3 to 4 ac's will shrek people on rams. Very hard to survive. If there is a blob and the defenders are heavily outnumbered that's a population balance issue. Defenders have the advantage and this thread they're asking for even more of an advantage which is laughable. Shield gens have to be rotated perfectly and can be disabled or hit so there is counterplay. Don't see an issue here.

>

> deffenders have advantage? is NA different then europe? deffenders cant do anything vs a blob get near the wall and ur dead or pulled off and ur still dead. u cant actually deffend anything properly in gw2 if u cant win a straight up fight.

 

They have a blob and you have what? Are you outnumbered? Do you expect to defend 5 vs 80? It's not realistic at all and that's a population balance issue if anything cause when the numbers are even you can't even get in the keep m8. If you don't think defenders have the advantage in this game i'm not sure what to say.

[SweetPotato.7456]

All these people never defended on a lowly populated server before, thats why all talk like its an easy thing., you all sweep thru objectives with your 50 men zerg. try to defend when the situation is reverse see how you like it.

 

[DeWolfe.2174]

If they reached inner without an equal response in numbers from your side, then you're meant to lose the structure. Though I noticed an issue in some of the suggestions. Where people are suggesting Profession specific skills like stealth are required to defend. Maybe every structure should have a cloaking field generator similar to SMC's Cloaking waters? To prevent Zerg spamming like in SMC, it could have a limit number of charges on a refresh with a vertical charge level bar on the device. Just tossing at a random number say 10 charges per minute? I only say this because scouting and defending really shouldn't be profession specific. It's hard enough to get people to want to do it.

[Trajan.4953]

First hit on the far side of the shield gen for splash damage.

 

Second, who the hell cares any more?

 

[aspirine.5839]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > > > Without shield gens it would be hard to take anything these days.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is it? 3 rams or catas burn through structures pretty faster.

> > > > >

> > > > > Disables, AC's and fortified gates and walls say otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > Ac's? lol, what game do you play. Before an ac has got only a fifth of a ram or catas health they are inside at the next gate. With shield gens they wont even touch the rams or catas. If you even survive the onslaught the blob can do to any person on a AC unless it's placed real high, this is not the case at all keeps or towers :/

> > > > Disables are fine, indeed. They do not always work though.

> > >

> > > 3 to 4 ac's will shrek people on rams. Very hard to survive. If there is a blob and the defenders are heavily outnumbered that's a population balance issue. Defenders have the advantage and this thread they're asking for even more of an advantage which is laughable. Shield gens have to be rotated perfectly and can be disabled or hit so there is counterplay. Don't see an issue here.

> >

> > deffenders have advantage? is NA different then europe? deffenders cant do anything vs a blob get near the wall and ur dead or pulled off and ur still dead. u cant actually deffend anything properly in gw2 if u cant win a straight up fight.

>

> They have a blob and you have what? Are you outnumbered? Do you expect to defend 5 vs 80? It's not realistic at all and that's a population balance issue if anything cause when the numbers are even you can't even get in the keep m8. If you don't think defenders have the advantage in this game i'm not sure what to say.

 

Makes me wonder what advantages do defenders have in your eyes? And 5 vs 80 is not very realistic. Usually it's 5 or so against 25+ in some cases during reset night even less. It is not that you want to win against those numbers, that would be stupid. But not being able to do anything at all is just as stupid imo.

[X T D.6458]

> @"Samug.6512" said:

> https://ibb.co/gUqG0J

> I know there's very little visible in the Screenshot, but under this bubble there is:

> 7 rams

> 2 golems

> 70 enemy players

> 4 shield gens.

> It's impossible to defend - ACs don't work because of shield generators. Rams, golems and shield generator are covered by the bubble all the time, so it's close to impossible to disable anything.

> Can we get shield generator minimum range extended please?

 

What siege cap?

/sarcasm

[Israel.7056]

At that point you might actually have to fight them. If you can't win the fight you lose the objective. This is as it should be imo.

[Threather.9354]

I think shield gens are okay, they are just little too easy to setup correctly..

 

if you have 4 shield gens, you would have perma bubble even if 2 of them get disabled if you spread them a bit.

**I think shield gen bubble duration should be reduced by 33%** so you would need 3 shield gens to keep bubble up 24/7 instead of 2.

 

**However defending with them would still be little unbalanced so they should also reduce the radius by 15%** (0.85*0.85=0.7225, meaning 27.75% area reduction) so they cant cover the whole wall with shield gens.

 

Reason I think shield gens are fine is because at this state of game, **it would be stupid for 3 smart people to be able to stop 80 smart attackers from taking a tower at this state of the game**. You already have tactics, reduced siege cost, claim buff, free/faster upgrading etc to defend. You really dont need to be able to defend against full blob if you have barely anyone on.

 

Even with shield gens in the game, you can just slow down enemy blob with a 5 man group with smart supply traps, disablers, Knockbacks on rams, inuvlns, sabotage depots etc, you can slow down blob for a few hours on your map which would be enough to upgrade your eb map. You might still lose the skirmish and everything upgraded but at least enemy would hate being so slow at capping things *while you should be having fun.*

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

How many people did you have defending?

 

Defenders should have an advantage, 100%. And I think something needs to be done about the walls being a death trap, in a defending situation the wall should be the high ground, because it is, it should not be an almost instant death trap.

 

With that said however, shield gens are not the issue, and can be countered. But that doesn't mean a smaller force in a structure should ALWAYS be able to defend against a larger, well organized team. Assuming Alpha golems and basic shield gens, that's over 700 supply on one gate, with people in coms, and rotating bubbles etc etc. With that much invested and tactics, they deserve a chance. And even still, a small organized team can counter them. One or two people disable the shield gens, only the one gen the furthest out is casting over the others, all the other bubbles are not covering them, wait for that one bubble to pop and toss a disable, shields are down, now someone inside on a door treb can wipe out those rams.

 

However from the looks of it, there was probably no siege, and very few random defenders. Sorry, but those few are going to (and honestly should) lose if no one else is willing to defend. Sucks losing a T3, big time if you just spent hours getting it there....But that is part of the game.

[hunkamania.7561]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > > > > Without shield gens it would be hard to take anything these days.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is it? 3 rams or catas burn through structures pretty faster.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Disables, AC's and fortified gates and walls say otherwise.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ac's? lol, what game do you play. Before an ac has got only a fifth of a ram or catas health they are inside at the next gate. With shield gens they wont even touch the rams or catas. If you even survive the onslaught the blob can do to any person on a AC unless it's placed real high, this is not the case at all keeps or towers :/

> > > > > Disables are fine, indeed. They do not always work though.

> > > >

> > > > 3 to 4 ac's will shrek people on rams. Very hard to survive. If there is a blob and the defenders are heavily outnumbered that's a population balance issue. Defenders have the advantage and this thread they're asking for even more of an advantage which is laughable. Shield gens have to be rotated perfectly and can be disabled or hit so there is counterplay. Don't see an issue here.

> > >

> > > deffenders have advantage? is NA different then europe? deffenders cant do anything vs a blob get near the wall and ur dead or pulled off and ur still dead. u cant actually deffend anything properly in gw2 if u cant win a straight up fight.

> >

> > They have a blob and you have what? Are you outnumbered? Do you expect to defend 5 vs 80? It's not realistic at all and that's a population balance issue if anything cause when the numbers are even you can't even get in the keep m8. If you don't think defenders have the advantage in this game i'm not sure what to say.

>

> Makes me wonder what advantages do defenders have in your eyes? And 5 vs 80 is not very realistic. Usually it's 5 or so against 25+ in some cases during reset night even less. It is not that you want to win against those numbers, that would be stupid. But not being able to do anything at all is just as stupid imo.

 

Well you did say blob. 5 v 25 and that 25 is a zerg it still should be capped by the 25 but if those guys mash 1 on their ac's enough they easily stop the attack. Takes little skill to defend with your ac's. Now if the defenders are hitting amazing treb shots i can live with that because that takes skill. pressing 1 on AC's with 5 dudes and you'll melt any attacker without shield gens. AC's are mindless and OP. If they change AC's where you need some skill to use them maybe then we can talk about getting rid of shield gens. If numbers are always an issue then it has nothing to do with defending and that's strictly POPULATION. We all know even numbers defenders have the advantage and it's not even close.

[aspirine.5839]

5 man on AC's, really? I have never ever seen 5 ac's being placed good enough that attackers cannot hit them, or even so they have to leave the tower or keep. Perhaps they play a lot different on your servers but I have never seen that. Even with 2 superior ac's it is insanely hard to even down a single foe, or damage the siege.

So instead of AC, how should defenders like defend their object?

[Blocki.4931]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> 5 man on AC's, really? I have never ever seen 5 ac's being placed good enough that attackers cannot hit them, or even so they have to leave the tower or keep. Perhaps they play a lot different on your servers but I have never seen that. Even with 2 superior ac's it is insanely hard to even down a single foe, or damage the siege.

> So instead of AC, how should defenders like defend their object?

 

Uhhh

 

You what?

 

3 ACs up at all times is pretty standard whenever I play lol

 

And those are DEFINITELY enough to seriously damage the Rams/Catas and/or people manning them. They're going to need a couple of good healers to do something against that, Ironhide buff alone won't save them. ACs are still going to hit for like 4k per use so around 10 seconds of using the 1 skill should get most people to below 50% HP. + definitely deter other people from running there and building another siege or whatever. It adds up.

 

And that is where defenders get the advantage. If they have already placed siege it gives them the best aoe tools in the game. There is counterplay in getting hit by spells on top of the wall, but in general it's a huge advantage simply because it's tons of free damage on up to 50 targets, which yes, can pretty much translated into higher player numbers.

[aspirine.5839]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > 5 man on AC's, really? I have never ever seen 5 ac's being placed good enough that attackers cannot hit them, or even so they have to leave the tower or keep. Perhaps they play a lot different on your servers but I have never seen that. Even with 2 superior ac's it is insanely hard to even down a single foe, or damage the siege.

> > So instead of AC, how should defenders like defend their object?

>

> Uhhh

>

> You what?

>

> 3 ACs up at all times is pretty standard whenever I play lol

>

> And those are DEFINITELY enough to seriously damage the Rams/Catas and/or people manning them. They're going to need a couple of good healers to do something against that, Ironhide buff alone won't save them. ACs are still going to hit for like 4k per use so around 10 seconds of using the 1 skill should get most people to below 50% HP. + definitely deter other people from running there and building another siege or whatever. It adds up.

>

> And that is where defenders get the advantage. If they have already placed siege it gives them the best aoe tools in the game. There is counterplay in getting hit by spells on top of the wall, but in general it's a huge advantage simply because it's tons of free damage on up to 50 targets, which yes, can pretty much translated into higher player numbers.

 

You play on the same server as I do, well you are linked but doesnt matter. And I never ever see those kind of ac's. Not even in your precious Fire keep :)

Sure there are 5 at the top level we have even more in Hills, but can they all hit the attackers? Only 1, perhaps 2 can hit them.

And to be honest I left out the desert BL's because besides your guild nobody even likes that map :P

 

Let's take the real Bay for example, favorite attackers spot is the wall closest to the hills so they can use the same catas for inner, how many AC's can hit them you think? Take a guess. :)

[Blocki.4931]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > > 5 man on AC's, really? I have never ever seen 5 ac's being placed good enough that attackers cannot hit them, or even so they have to leave the tower or keep. Perhaps they play a lot different on your servers but I have never seen that. Even with 2 superior ac's it is insanely hard to even down a single foe, or damage the siege.

> > > So instead of AC, how should defenders like defend their object?

> >

> > Uhhh

> >

> > You what?

> >

> > 3 ACs up at all times is pretty standard whenever I play lol

> >

> > And those are DEFINITELY enough to seriously damage the Rams/Catas and/or people manning them. They're going to need a couple of good healers to do something against that, Ironhide buff alone won't save them. ACs are still going to hit for like 4k per use so around 10 seconds of using the 1 skill should get most people to below 50% HP. + definitely deter other people from running there and building another siege or whatever. It adds up.

> >

> > And that is where defenders get the advantage. If they have already placed siege it gives them the best aoe tools in the game. There is counterplay in getting hit by spells on top of the wall, but in general it's a huge advantage simply because it's tons of free damage on up to 50 targets, which yes, can pretty much translated into higher player numbers.

>

> You play on the same server as I do, well you are linked but doesnt matter. And I never ever see those kind of ac's. Not even in your precious Fire keep :)

> Sure there are 5 at the top level we have even more in Hills, but can they all hit the attackers? Only 1, perhaps 2 can hit them.

> And to be honest I left out the desert BL's because besides your guild nobody even likes that map :P

>

> Let's take the real Bay for example, favorite attackers spot is the wall closest to the hills so they can use the same catas for inner, how many AC's can hit them you think? Take a guess. :)

 

Alright, you got me there. I really didn't think about Bay and Hills. Only time I ever see more than one AC there at all is at the North gate on top of the plateau, because the tiny walls really suck.

 

Fire keep south usually has 2 or even 3 ACs higher up where that NPC mob stands around, North has them on top at the back of the gate ususally. We do tend to use more than 2 though and usually that's enough to get them to leave.

 

Air keep has places like that too. Northwest on the small cliff, north inner at the cliff.. it all has higher elevation and is a bit harder to hit up there. One of the reasons I prefer the desert map. An actual height axis in gameplay.