Black Lion Chest Keys - article

[cesmode.4257]

https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/is-it-time-to-say-goodbye-to-black-lion-chests-lootboxes-1000012793

 

Fairly decent read. And this is nothing new to anyone.

 

If they cut out the rare materials (you can get them just from playing the game, very easily), the revive orbs, repairs, teleports, etc...cut out all the useless stuff that takes up so much bank space, and give us skins, mount skins, etc...yah maybe Id buy some keys. Until then, I think its a colossal waste of time and money and only adds to the inventory and item management problem GW2 has. Also, consider all of the legal hoopla surrounding RNG, lootboxes, and gambling in video games these days. Might be a good idea to revisit these chests.

 

With all of this said, maybe Arenanet has made some changes in recent years to the chests because they seem more meaningful now than when the game launched. But we still have a ways to go before I spend gems on keys.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Dante.1763]

I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

What you deem useless/junk, others find desirable. I like the BL Chests; I've acquired many a treasure from them.

Of course, YMMV.

[Ashen.2907]

I dont like the idea of gambling for a chance at an item I want....but, no pay to win, keys can be bought with in game currency, keys can be earned in game, etc. I dont think they are a problem.

[Linken.6345]

They arent dirt cheap anymore as said in the article, they have a reduced chance to drop and people burned through the 2c-7s supply and they are now up over that.

[Danikat.8537]

I don't like Black Lion Chests and I will never buy keys. When I make a purchase I want to know _exactly_ what I'm buying, not that I have a chance at getting the thing I want but may have to pay £1 or £10 or £50 before I actually get it, or may never get it at all.

 

However I don't mind the chests being in the game, if everything in them can be obtained another way, whether that's buying it directly from Anet or from a player (who may have gotten it from a chest). Of course that's not currently the case, each version of the chest contains a few items which are account bound and not available anywhere else.

 

But...I've given up arguing against it. I tried for over 5 years, almost every time one of those items was brought into the game (in Black Lion Chests and elsewhere) and the message I got from other players was that as long as it's 'just' a cosmetic the only players who care are those who want that skin or mini or whatever and they'll be shouted down by those who don't want it, on the basis that you don't need it so it doesn't matter how it's obtained. I'd argue that if a reward system is only acceptable to you because you don't want the reward and therefore don't need to deal with it then that doesn't mean it's actually a good system, just that it's not your problem right now. But apparently that's how it goes - if an especially popular item is exclusive to Black Lion Chests then more people might complain, but only about that one item, once it moves onto something else the exact same system is apparently ok again. I just couldn't deal with having the exact same arguments each and every time, I was tired of it (literally, it made me feel tired just thinking about going through it again) so I gave up.

 

Besides, with Anet almost nothing is actually exclusive. Most items are made available again sooner or later. So what I do now is wait until the items I want have been gone for a year, then ask for them to return via another method. That seems to work better. Not that they come back whenever I ask, sometimes it takes years (the Wintersday Mystic Box minis took about 4-5 years to be available again), but it seems to happen eventually and I'm willing to be patient.

 

So yeah. I don't like Black Lion Chests and I will never buy keys unless they make it possible to choose the items you want (which they will never do). But I can live with them being in the game because I can avoid ever using them.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Historically chests have been less than a silver, often only a few copper. In Dec 2017 they had increased to between 1 - 2 silver on the trading post. Today they are between 7 -8 silver and supply is dropping. The changes to price and supply has happened recently with the upgrades to the chests so obviously people have increased buying them.

 

[black Lion Chests: toggle both Full History and All to see since launch](https://www.gw2tp.com/item/20316-black-lion-chest?full=1)

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> Historically chests have been less than a silver, often only a few copper. In Dec 2017 they had increased to between 1 - 2 silver on the trading post. Today they are between 7 -8 silver and supply is dropping. The changes to price and supply has happened recently with the upgrades to the chests so obviously people have increased buying them.

>

> [black Lion Chests: toggle both Full History and All to see since launch](https://www.gw2tp.com/item/20316-black-lion-chest?full=1)

 

Supply has dropped, but if you switch on demand it's been almost unchanged since April 2014. If more people were buying them I'd expect demand to increase at a similar rate to the drop in supply. Unless what we're seeing is more people selling chests instantly instead of listing them for sale at a higher price.

[Mea.5491]

I only bought one 25 Key bundle once when I really wanted the Wild Magic Backpack and I got it. I got several rare stuff thanks to my weekly Key run and free Keys from map completion. So I don't mind chests (much better than lootboxes in some other MMOs) but I still prefer buying items directly from the Gem Store.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > Historically chests have been less than a silver, often only a few copper. In Dec 2017 they had increased to between 1 - 2 silver on the trading post. Today they are between 7 -8 silver and supply is dropping. The changes to price and supply has happened recently with the upgrades to the chests so obviously people have increased buying them.

> >

> > [black Lion Chests: toggle both Full History and All to see since launch](https://www.gw2tp.com/item/20316-black-lion-chest?full=1)

>

> Supply has dropped, but if you switch on demand it's been almost unchanged since April 2014. If more people were buying them I'd expect demand to increase at a similar rate to the drop in supply. Unless what we're seeing is more people selling chests instantly instead of listing them for sale at a higher price.

 

How do you switch on demand to show historical demand? All I see is current demand.

[cesmode.4257]

I think a lot of you missed my point and jumped to conclusions.

 

The acquisition of the chests is not in question. Its what is required to open them and the reward for it. As it stands, you need to spend real $$, roll the dice (aha which is gambling) and hope you get something worth while. Sure, its an assumption, but people that have been playing for years might want something other than Large Fangs or Gossamer silk or something.

 

Just suggesting tweaks to the contents, the article says to remove the chests entirely.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

BL Chests are the lotto tickets of Tyria. Everything in them has _eventually_ become available through other means. They appeal to people who like the moment of anticipation right before they see what's actually inside. They are designed to drop mostly junk, with the occasional 'gem'. They wouldn't be interesting if they only had stuff that could be obtained easily from other sources at will.

 

Like @"Danikat.8537", I've never spent RL money nor gold on them _for myself_, but I like them as gifts for others. And I like that I can get them in-game (albeit with difficulty). Thus, I also get to roll for luck... just not as many times as those willing to pay.

 

I think the game is more fun and more interesting if there are a few items that are hard-to-obtain and only available via specific sources. Some will be inaccessible to me (e.g. SAB infusions) and some will be inaccessible to others. As ANet keeps introducing more items, I'm okay with that.

[Dante.1763]

> @"cesmode.4257" said:

> I think a lot of you missed my point and jumped to conclusions.

>

> The acquisition of the chests is not in question. Its what is required to open them and the reward for it. As it stands, you need to spend real $$, roll the dice (aha which is gambling) and hope you get something worth while. Sure, its an assumption, but people that have been playing for years might want something other than Large Fangs or Gossamer silk or something.

>

> Just suggesting tweaks to the contents, the article says to remove the chests entirely.

 

The only thing thats even remotely gambling about it is that you dont know what you are gonna get, because you /are/ guaranteed something, might not be what you wanted but you get *SOMETHING* everytime.

 

Unlike REAL LIFE gambling, in which, you can actually and often do *LOSE* money, get nothing, or worse.

[jediwolf.8724]

I don't buy keys anymore. It has been years since I did.

I do weekly key runs and map completion to get them. Keys should drop in game more often.

When I get 10 to 20 and there is something in the chests I would really like, I use them.

NEVER get the item I really want. I am not including permanent hair style kits etc. I know I will never get anything that good.

I get lots of special dye packs. Open them and get ones worth a few copper that I already have. RNG on top of RNG I am sick of it.

 

[Linken.6345]

> @"cesmode.4257" said:

> I think a lot of you missed my point and jumped to conclusions.

>

> The acquisition of the chests is not in question. Its what is required to open them and the reward for it. As it stands, you need to spend real $$, roll the dice (aha which is gambling) and hope you get something worth while. Sure, its an assumption, but people that have been playing for years might want something other than Large Fangs or Gossamer silk or something.

>

> Just suggesting tweaks to the contents, the article says to remove the chests entirely.'

You can get more then 1 key each week by doing story missions, there are even 1-2 on specific heart of thorns missions aswell that the guy skip since it probabely take to much time.

 

As said in this thread

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/42561/my-2-key-run-route-level-1-40-with-tomes

by

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> Each week i do a lvl 80 farm for 4-5 keys. It takes me around 1h 40min. So you do all the story up till the Battle of Claw Island (i think thats how its called, when dragon atacks) alongside Ls season 2 ep 6 and quick bloodstone fen exploration.

>

> Race/Class: Human warrior, full ascended berserker.

> Story: Commoner-Parents

> Lvl 10: Orphanage

> Lvl 20: Ambush

> lvl 30: Priory-Whispers-Whispers-Vigil

> lvl 40: Defend the camp

> lvl 50: Skritt, Find missing skritt

>

> This keyfarm also brings quite alot of overall gold and material value, so its quite worth it.

> Note: Only do this if you have alot of spare tomes of knowledge. Also, if you have the Airship pass and griffon, you can skip soo much of the map for fast travel, its great. Might make a video at some point of my full run.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Like Danikat, I prefer to know what I'm buying when spending gems (or money).

 

Like Illconceived was Na, I see that opening a BLC is best if the buyer/opener _likes_ the thrill that come with anticipation.

 

Regardless of my views, I don't see any laws meant to inhibit in-game gambling impacting ANet's ability to continue selling BL Keys. Even if such laws are passed, all ANet would have to do is minor modifications to what's in the chests so that any item can be obtained with enough Statuettes. At that point, there is no gambling except to possibly get the item sooner.

[Lelouch Lamperouge.3716]

I never understood the concept of people complaining about loot boxes. Much like booster packs for trading card games. Sure you might not get what you want, but you are rewarded with something and that is what differentiates loot boxes from gambling.

[Tasida.4085]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they removed all the dyes.........many of us who have been around since beta/launch have collected many if not all the colors and it's a waste of keys for us. ANDDDDDDDDD hair style kits........i really don't need 50 kits LOL. I still buy keys when they are on sale in bulk and farm weekly for them, letting them collect for those rare good items that sometimes end up in blc's. But seriously, ENOUGH with dyes and hair plz. OR bring in an npc we can trade em off with ;).

[Brother.1504]

The last few months have been the best implementation of the black lion chests imo. They drop the cost of rotating black lion weapon collections. New rare items and mounts. And still the chance at the super rare contracts. Even the vendor tokens and guaranteed unlocks are pretty fun. The black lion chests are moving in the right direction to encourage my purchase of keys.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

The black lion statuettes make up for a lot of frustration with unwanted drops. As someone who farms hard for keys (and occasionally buys them) it is aggravating when you get unexciting rewards from a key you had to complete 5 maps before getting, but the guaranteed statuettes do add up. The RNG is pretty good to me sometimes (got the Wild Magic glider, and after tons of keys, finally the shrine jackal) but the statuettes are reliable and let you choose a reward.

 

Both my statuettes and keys are being hoarded now in eager anticipation of the next chest drop/statuette store change.

 

> @"Tasida.4085" said:

> It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they removed all the dyes.........many of us who have been around since beta/launch have collected many if not all the colors and it's a waste of keys for us. ANDDDDDDDDD hair style kits........i really don't need 50 kits LOL. I still buy keys when they are on sale in bulk and farm weekly for them, letting them collect for those rare good items that sometimes end up in blc's. But seriously, ENOUGH with dyes and hair plz. OR bring in an npc we can trade em off with ;).

 

Those hair kits do add up, don't they? :D Dyes, though--when I was newer and didn't have many yet, it was exciting. Now that I have bought everything from the TP except for about half the exclusives, it's nearly always a disappointment. Does Anet really make much selling dye packs in the gem store? (The ones I bought were my biggest regret purchase ever.) IMO, Anet ought to make the dye kits ONLY originate from the chests, but they should also be able to be bought and sold on the TP.

[Tasida.4085]

> @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> The black lion statuettes make up for a lot of frustration with unwanted drops. As someone who farms hard for keys (and occasionally buys them) it is aggravating when you get unexciting rewards from a key you had to complete 5 maps before getting, but the guaranteed statuettes do add up. The RNG is pretty good to me sometimes (got the Wild Magic glider, and after tons of keys, finally the shrine jackal) but the statuettes are reliable and let you choose a reward.

>

> Both my statuettes and keys are being hoarded now in eager anticipation of the next chest drop/statuette store change.

>

> > @"Tasida.4085" said:

> > It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they removed all the dyes.........many of us who have been around since beta/launch have collected many if not all the colors and it's a waste of keys for us. ANDDDDDDDDD hair style kits........i really don't need 50 kits LOL. I still buy keys when they are on sale in bulk and farm weekly for them, letting them collect for those rare good items that sometimes end up in blc's. But seriously, ENOUGH with dyes and hair plz. OR bring in an npc we can trade em off with ;).

>

> Those hair kits do add up, don't they? :D Dyes, though--when I was newer and didn't have many yet, it was exciting. Now that I have bought everything from the TP except for about half the exclusives, it's nearly always a disappointment. Does Anet really make much selling dye packs in the gem store? (The ones I bought were my biggest regret purchase ever.) IMO, Anet ought to make the dye kits ONLY originate from the chests, but they should also be able to be bought and sold on the TP.

 

I agree about the statues so why not let us trade useless dye n hair styles for statues? Sounds like a perfect plan.

[Blocki.4931]

I always enjoy buying 10 stacks of chests at 5 silver and selling them next time they update their contents. Price jumps to 15 silver regularly. Good times

[Glider.5792]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> I always enjoy buying 10 stacks of chests at 5 silver and selling them next time they update their contents. Price jumps to 15 silver regularly. Good times

 

Sharing this kind of stuff will make more people do the same thing (if its true), and due to that less overall profit, if any. On that note, thanks for info, gonna check it out ;)

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> I..like the chests..and they arent gambling. You /always/ get something, might not be what you wanted, but its always something. I buy keys once or twice month when i buy gems. The materials they give you are a nice little boost too.

 

It is gambling. The "you always get sth" argument is a hole in law that allows gaming companies to avoid gambling regulations. It applies to all games, not just GW2.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"cesmode.4257" said:

> > I think a lot of you missed my point and jumped to conclusions.

> >

> > The acquisition of the chests is not in question. Its what is required to open them and the reward for it. As it stands, you need to spend real $$, roll the dice (aha which is gambling) and hope you get something worth while. Sure, its an assumption, but people that have been playing for years might want something other than Large Fangs or Gossamer silk or something.

> >

> > Just suggesting tweaks to the contents, the article says to remove the chests entirely.

>

> The only thing thats even remotely gambling about it is that you dont know what you are gonna get, because you /are/ guaranteed something, might not be what you wanted but you get *SOMETHING* everytime.

>

> Unlike REAL LIFE gambling, in which, you can actually and often do *LOSE* money, get nothing, or worse.

 

Don't forget we don't even know chances of dropping certain items. Citizens of western, free world. Meanwhile players from communist China know this, because law made Anet reveal chance %.