Bast.7253 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > As to your first point, I think you missed mine. In other maps in areas that aren't intended to see, they're almost as polished as the content you are meant to see. The level of how unfinished this particular part is of this map leads me to my assumption. But if you haven't personally broken out of the map like that as frequently you probably wouldn't understand why I'm reaching that conclusion. I think others have made a good point about the 3 cannons, three bridges, and 3 different allies that could have meant that it was originally meant to be a 3 lane meta. Or at least 2. I think there's a bit of a disconnect in that we have the corsaairs whose only job is to fire supplies into a cannon? We have the Heket who we intentionally coerce into joining us with the fight, but did they actually join us after that? I don't recall seeing them do anything or even participate in any of the other events on the map? Then we have the army we brought into the map through the rift. If you look at it completely neutrally, then you start to see aspects of it that make it feel as though it was meant to be more grand. Along with the comments from the devs about the Golem originally being its own boss on Bokoss Island before it was moved to be the final boss of the meta. It's possible that the Golem boss on Bokoss Island was meant to be just the first starter boss of one of the multiple lanes. This is all assumption, but it's a little bit of observation. "Design Adjustment: A lot of what we were doing was to change how we were developing content and when we were syncing with the teams at large. The stories that we are telling are complicated enough that when you span across multiple teams that are all in flight at the same time in different parts of the production process, it meant that sometimes things were getting missed, or we had to course correct on things fairly late in development and it was painful for teams to adjust. This episode specifically lost time due to these types of corrections that forced us to look at the scope of the episode. When teams review their content with leads and directors has also changed to allow the team better visibility in to how their work is progressing and how their content lines up with the teams before and after them." This was taken from the ama summary on reddit and is why I've made the conclusions I have. It's not the quote about it not being something they felt comfortable releasing, because the ama summary thread has a separate one from Mike addressing the technical side of things and not the one that I'm referring to. As far as the same team and two teams bit, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. There are still 3 teams as far as I know, but I believe the team that is doing the next episode is the one that did Daybreak which is why I'm particularly excited for it. Despite what people have said, though it didn't have a great meta and parts of the map are a bit stale, I spent quite a bit of time in Bitterfrost. But that may be solely due to how much I loved the geyser and forest area. (Bitterfrost as far as I know is the same team that did this episode. And Siren's landing again didn't have a whole lot going on in terms of events, but was a pretty exciting and cohesive map.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. Well, I think that's part of the reason people are scrutinizing this episode so much in particular. It's the third team and the one that has presumably had the longest period of time, along with an extra month from the delay. 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zealex.9410 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. No hes saying the next ep n4 is being developed by team 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. > > Well, I think that's part of the reason people are scrutinizing this episode so much in particular. It's the third team and the one that has presumably had the longest period of time, along with an extra month from the delay. Practically they had the same as the rest if we assume they are the ones who made ep6 of se3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > > > > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. > > > > Well, I think that's part of the reason people are scrutinizing this episode so much in particular. It's the third team and the one that has presumably had the longest period of time, along with an extra month from the delay. > > Practically they had the same as the rest if we assume they are the ones who made ep6 of se3. But if we're assuming they are solely dedicated to THEIR episodes, that would mean they had One Path Ends, then nothing till this episode, which includes the 6 months of Episode 1 and 2, plus the time before the expansion hit and the time while the expansion was live before Episode 1. Way longer. Not even entirely sure how long ago that was. lol But I doubt they have the episodes planned out THAT far in advance to the point that they can start working on it that soon. And by the sounds of the way things had been made previously, they sort of work on episodes but then have to sometimes redo things to fit whatever direction they need to because of sudden changes of the other teams. Edit* I think I sort of understand what you're saying now though. Because each team would have had that extra time added on with the expansion launch before episode 1, which actually hit fairly quick into the expansion. So basically just the extra month then. Really just sounds like it boiled down to bugs and design 180's halfway through. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. I’ve actually spent more time with this episode than with previous ones including most of LS3. There are some telltale signs that are pretty hard to explain away and people have been pointing them out in thread after thread since this mess released. I don't think we need a signed confession from ANet to draw the conclusion that this was a rush job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > > > > > > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. > > > > > > Well, I think that's part of the reason people are scrutinizing this episode so much in particular. It's the third team and the one that has presumably had the longest period of time, along with an extra month from the delay. > > > > Practically they had the same as the rest if we assume they are the ones who made ep6 of se3. > > But if we're assuming they are solely dedicated to THEIR episodes, that would mean they had One Path Ends, then nothing till this episode, which includes the 6 months of Episode 1 and 2, plus the time before the expansion hit and the time while the expansion was live before Episode 1. Way longer. Not even entirely sure how long ago that was. lol > > But I doubt they have the episodes planned out THAT far in advance to the point that they can start working on it that soon. And by the sounds of the way things had been made previously, they sort of work on episodes but then have to sometimes redo things to fit whatever direction they need to because of sudden changes of the other teams. > > Edit* I think I sort of understand what you're saying now though. Because each team would have had that extra time added on with the expansion launch before episode 1, which actually hit fairly quick into the expansion. So basically just the extra month then. Really just sounds like it boiled down to bugs and design 180's halfway through. lol And team 1 had time to work at ep 1 of se4 since lake doric basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drecien.4508 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 But counting the dev teams didn't they switch sirens landing and draconis mons at the last minute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. > > This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. > > HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. I mean if we go by that idea then every expansions will be succesful to some. There were ppl complaining days after pof that theres no incentive to do content that this expansions doesnt feel like 1 suited for an mmo. Pof at least had lw start fast right after the expansion launch. If Hot had the same treatment it would still be the superior expansion. If we go by numbers of ppl complaining it looks to me that the same amount of ppl are mad now that were mad back then, diff is hot is still being played while pof is basically abandoned. Aditionally the legendaries were a huge part of the complains back then, they were the flagship of the selling points and not having them on release sparked alot of complains. Even without all of them i can look back at hot and say i had more stuff to work towards. Leaving content to the side pof for me failed because it took what hot nailed and threw it out of the window. Namely the sense of an actually mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > > > > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > > > > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > > > > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. > > > > This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. > > > > HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. > > I mean if we go by that idea then every expansions will be succesful to some. There were ppl complaining days after pof that theres no incentive to do content that this expansions doesnt feel like 1 suited for an mmo. > > Pof at least had lw start fast right after the expansion launch. If Hot had the same treatment it would still be the superior expansion. > > If we go by numbers of ppl complaining it looks to me that the same amount of ppl are mad now that were mad back then, diff is hot is still being played while pof is basically abandoned. > > > Aditionally the legendaries were a huge part of the complains back then, they were the flagship of the selling points and not having them on release sparked alot of complains. Even without all of them i can look back at hot and say i had more stuff to work towards. > > Leaving content to the side pof for me failed because it took what hot nailed and threw it out of the window. Namely the sense of an actually mmo. HOT had far more complaints than POF. Far more. NO comparison. Not even close. PoF was developed as a specific response to the complaints about HoT. That much is obvious. Lots of people who left the game over HoT returned when POF launched. It's arguably the more successful expansion of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > > > > > > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > > > > > > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > > > > > > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. > > > > > > This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. > > > > > > HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. > > > > I mean if we go by that idea then every expansions will be succesful to some. There were ppl complaining days after pof that theres no incentive to do content that this expansions doesnt feel like 1 suited for an mmo. > > > > Pof at least had lw start fast right after the expansion launch. If Hot had the same treatment it would still be the superior expansion. > > > > If we go by numbers of ppl complaining it looks to me that the same amount of ppl are mad now that were mad back then, diff is hot is still being played while pof is basically abandoned. > > > > > > Aditionally the legendaries were a huge part of the complains back then, they were the flagship of the selling points and not having them on release sparked alot of complains. Even without all of them i can look back at hot and say i had more stuff to work towards. > > > > Leaving content to the side pof for me failed because it took what hot nailed and threw it out of the window. Namely the sense of an actually mmo. > > HOT had far more complaints than POF. Far more. NO comparison. Not even close. PoF was developed as a specific response to the complaints about HoT. That much is obvious. Lots of people who left the game over HoT returned when POF launched. It's arguably the more successful expansion of the two. And as much if not more left the game since pof. As you said tho hot had more reasons for ppl to complain, basically a 9 month drought and not all the selling points being there. You would get the same ppl saying [this hot meta] is not done, or this [incert content here] is imposibly and the first responce would prove them wrong. If someone complains about replayability in the pof maps prob nobody will argue with that. But they dont because they either left the game, went back to hot, or left and just come back every lw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > > > > > > > > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > > > > > > > > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. > > > > > > > > This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. > > > > > > > > HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. > > > > > > I mean if we go by that idea then every expansions will be succesful to some. There were ppl complaining days after pof that theres no incentive to do content that this expansions doesnt feel like 1 suited for an mmo. > > > > > > Pof at least had lw start fast right after the expansion launch. If Hot had the same treatment it would still be the superior expansion. > > > > > > If we go by numbers of ppl complaining it looks to me that the same amount of ppl are mad now that were mad back then, diff is hot is still being played while pof is basically abandoned. > > > > > > > > > Aditionally the legendaries were a huge part of the complains back then, they were the flagship of the selling points and not having them on release sparked alot of complains. Even without all of them i can look back at hot and say i had more stuff to work towards. > > > > > > Leaving content to the side pof for me failed because it took what hot nailed and threw it out of the window. Namely the sense of an actually mmo. > > > > HOT had far more complaints than POF. Far more. NO comparison. Not even close. PoF was developed as a specific response to the complaints about HoT. That much is obvious. Lots of people who left the game over HoT returned when POF launched. It's arguably the more successful expansion of the two. > > And as much if not more left the game since pof. As you said tho hot had more reasons for ppl to complain, basically a 9 month drought and not all the selling points being there. > > You would get the same ppl saying [this hot meta] is not done, or this [incert content here] is imposibly and the first responce would prove them wrong. > > If someone complains about replayability in the pof maps prob nobody will argue with that. But they dont because they either left the game, went back to hot, or left and just come back every lw. I seriously doubt you could back up your comment about more people left over PoF than HOT, considering less people complained. It makes no sense. Hard core players may have left. They still represent a minority of the playerbase...in my opinion anyway. More on topic, I don't believe this chapter was unfinished. I think it was meant to be casual. Same has PoF. People can't seem to tell the difference between content aimed at other audiences, and an unfinished product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 29.3k ap. And so much content to catch up on. The latest patch launched buggy but MMOs are sometimes like that. I’m happy with the ls4 zones and metas. For the most part I think anet is doing a good job with content cadence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > > > > > > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > > > > > > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > > > > > > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. > > > > > > This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. > > > > > > HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. > > > > I mean if we go by that idea then every expansions will be succesful to some. There were ppl complaining days after pof that theres no incentive to do content that this expansions doesnt feel like 1 suited for an mmo. > > > > Pof at least had lw start fast right after the expansion launch. If Hot had the same treatment it would still be the superior expansion. > > > > If we go by numbers of ppl complaining it looks to me that the same amount of ppl are mad now that were mad back then, diff is hot is still being played while pof is basically abandoned. > > > > > > Aditionally the legendaries were a huge part of the complains back then, they were the flagship of the selling points and not having them on release sparked alot of complains. Even without all of them i can look back at hot and say i had more stuff to work towards. > > > > Leaving content to the side pof for me failed because it took what hot nailed and threw it out of the window. Namely the sense of an actually mmo. > > HOT had far more complaints than POF. Far more. NO comparison. Not even close. PoF was developed as a specific response to the complaints about HoT. That much is obvious. Lots of people who left the game over HoT returned when POF launched. It's arguably the more successful expansion of the two. Yeah, they came back for PoF...and are now enjoying HoT because there are reasons to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. Probably because not everyone shares the same opinion on what constitutes fun. I, personally, dislike HoT. The maps, the metas, theme, NPCs, story, and so on. About the only thing about HoT that is not off-putting for me is the difficulty level of the mobs. Those feel about right (or could be a touch tougher). Overall I would consider HoT to not only be an inferior product, but actually bad. At least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > > > > > > > > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > > > > > > > > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. > > > > > > > > This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. > > > > > > > > HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. > > > > > > I mean if we go by that idea then every expansions will be succesful to some. There were ppl complaining days after pof that theres no incentive to do content that this expansions doesnt feel like 1 suited for an mmo. > > > > > > Pof at least had lw start fast right after the expansion launch. If Hot had the same treatment it would still be the superior expansion. > > > > > > If we go by numbers of ppl complaining it looks to me that the same amount of ppl are mad now that were mad back then, diff is hot is still being played while pof is basically abandoned. > > > > > > > > > Aditionally the legendaries were a huge part of the complains back then, they were the flagship of the selling points and not having them on release sparked alot of complains. Even without all of them i can look back at hot and say i had more stuff to work towards. > > > > > > Leaving content to the side pof for me failed because it took what hot nailed and threw it out of the window. Namely the sense of an actually mmo. > > > > HOT had far more complaints than POF. Far more. NO comparison. Not even close. PoF was developed as a specific response to the complaints about HoT. That much is obvious. Lots of people who left the game over HoT returned when POF launched. It's arguably the more successful expansion of the two. > > Yeah, they came back for PoF...and are now enjoying HoT because there are reasons to be there. That's not what I'm seeing in my guild. I see people all over the place. A lot of them in core Tyria even. Some people doing Fractals. Some people doing HOT. Some people doing PoF. It's not as cut and dried as you think. The bottom line is PoF was an intentional design decision, it wasn't shipped unfinished. HoT was shipped unfinished though. I've seen little evidence that the new episode was shipped unfinished. I simply see an episode that appeals to neither hard core players nor farmers, two of the most vocal segments of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Brother.1504" said: > 29.3k ap. And so much content to catch up on. The latest patch launched buggy but MMOs are sometimes like that. I’m happy with the ls4 zones and metas. For the most part I think anet is doing a good job with content cadence. How do you have content to catch up on at 29.3k ap? Like what kind of content, exactly? I play this game like non-stop when I'm off work and still only have like 17k ap if that. lol I need to borrow some of that so I can finish my Hellfire set. Just mail it to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 A lot of work went into that stealth section and the tiered turrets collection, only to never use them ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I'm fine with them taking their time with the episodes if that means there's more time to develop and perfect the expansion. Though there needs to be emphasis on replayability, but NEVER the kind that requires you thousands and thousands of a thing to complete. Stupid swim speed infusions. Its like the developer who thought of how to implement it thinks people only play one character and didn't consider the literal decades it would take to make one max level infusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlinvf.1358 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"miraude.2107" said: > > Istan, Sandswept Isles and Kourna are just fillers. A repeat of the maps of Bloodstone Fen, Bitterfrost Frontier, Lake Doric, Draconic Mons and Siren's Landing. > > > > Seeing as how we don't even know who the new baddie is yet for the expansion, there's probably going to be another map on the way. They are learning from Dry Top and Silverwastes which is nice. Nothing like failing Silverwastes meta over and over again simply because there isn't enough people to garner interest in it and low rewards. I'd prefer a short meta I can still complete further down the line than a meta that's abandoned because of length, not enough people or other issues. > > Silverwastes provided replayability for years even when hot was out. I wanna draw attention to this statement, because it exemplifies a problem with how people have been this one word with a very wildly wide range of nebulous arguments. To use it as a singular term to encapsulate a myriad of concepts.... I ask you, what exactly makes Silverwaste "replayable" compared to the multitude of other maps which share many of its specific elements in different mixtures? From what I've seen there are 3 or 4 reasons..... and technically all 3 of these could arguably be the same thing. Especially with the way players are acting on the map vs how its designed to be played. Oh.... and a 5th reason that can be tied directly to Istan's Meta. 1. The meta progresses almost passively at this point. Because no one is doing achievements, theres no incentive to properly level up the Outposts. This enables people to do other things, and simply make a push for vinewrath once the meta is 75% ready. 2. Its still a commonly hosted event, due to a quirk in group reward scaling. RIBA came about because events are the only way to generate shovels, and shovel total reward output scales with the size of the group (one shovel unlocks a chest for the whole group). This made this event a regular routine for many players. 3. And now we get into the real meat of its popularity...... SW chests have a high reward to effort ratio, where the effort scales downward with group size. Its gold per hour potential is only beat by Padawan and Fractals; but fractals requires an upfront investment, at least some build competence, and the main rewards are time gated- high payout, just low frequency. Istan is mostly just a DPS fight, and the event has a high tolerance for downs. 4. Because of the above 3, this map is also highly practiced by its regulars. Its only chance of fail is in the off hours where not enough people are playing. Like Teq on reset and Octovine thorough half the day, peak hours is guaranteed to succeed, and its success yields a large amount of rewards for the amount of time/effort invested. So why not make that parting of a farming route, or a weekly routine? 5. And here something that wasn't intended, but its impact is far reaching..... Istan generates a LOT of guaranteed rares, and a lot of Unidentified Gear. At this point I'm convinced this is common knowledge: Due to how the Magic find bonus of Perseverance on Silverwaste chests work, it massively increases the player's MF value (+150%) in the moment the chest is opened, and that magic find can be applied to Unidentified Gear (which is affected by MF) if you open them in that 1 second window. This further increases the odds for Rare or exotic drops from it, and is one of the reasons Elonan Rares and Ecto prices have dropped the way they have. With Elonan rares now giving less ectos, they've become somewhat more popular for Mystic Toilet gambling, and as usual Sword, Greatsword, and Staff managed to retain most of their TP value this way. A similar thing happened with Rare bandit weapons, where Swd/GS/Staff were regularly consumed for MF rolls, while the others were priced to reflect their value against Ectos they salvage into. My big issue with people using "replayability" to describe various parts of the game, is that what most of them really mean is "easily farmable"- yet refuse to use that term, despite its accuracy. You'd be hard pressed to prove me wrong on this. The vast majority of the game is very "replayable", they just aren't "infinitely rewarding" for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithis.3564 Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 They did confirm that there was cut content. The Asura and Golem we fight was suppose to spawn at Bokoss Prison. Not to mention that You have a known landmark like Gandara taking huge chunk of the map and we are able to enter only a small fraction of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambros Augustus.6594 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I coulda waited for a double ep in September. The story mechanics in gandara fortress were absolutely terrible. So many fire floors, lasers and me with no mouse atm as I am away, led to too many deaths for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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