Raids and fractal cms as paid dlc.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > While I usually support similar ideas, I have to disagree this would work on a MMO.

> >

> Eso ties its raids and dungeons from what ik to paid dlc.

>

 

Yes and ESO also has gear progression essentially forcing people to buy said content IF they want to remain up to date on their equipment. Not really applicable to GW2 is it?

 

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Work and design schedules and priorities aren't simply reassigned weekly or monthly. Mid to long term organization is required to implement good content.

> >

> > Now if people were to argue if there should be a move to say a subscription, that I could understand or argue for or against (not saying I'd support or oppose this, simply that it would make more sense from a business perspective). That would be a change which allows for reallocation of assets and developers away from current monetization and towards more game assets and content.

> >

> > Having irregular or unstable spike revenue won't have that positive kind of effect. What about if people are unsatisfied with the content or the rewards? Suddenly revenue drops and what, you lay off the teams you just hired? It doesn't work.

>

> Having no revenue from said content tho isnt any better seeing their content delivery. Further more the whole game rn works on an irregular or unstable revenue model, if theres a gemstore update ppl dont like or against of what do they do they lay off teams?

 

No, they add more items which will generate revenue. Say like extra bank tabs, oh look what got added just now.

[yann.1946]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > A single fractal or even a raid wing, is no where near enough content to qualify for a paid DLC.

> > And then there's the Pay to Win rethoric, and overall image of the game. People were already throwing "P2W" around, when speaking about Elite specializations and the power creep associated to them in PvP and WvW. Basically saying that Elite Specs were pay to win.

> > Now imagine that knowing that Raids often have exclusive Legendaries (currently a ring). Add to that that people already feel pretty excluded and gated out of Raids as it is, compound that with having to pay for the feature.

> >

> And hows a ring that doesnt make you stronger p2w?

>

> > Also, lets flip that argument around. I personally feel that PvP and WvW in their current iterations are dead weight and a waste of dev time, doing more to harm the game than good. And that's actually my honest opinion. Balance attempts for PvP (structured or WvW) often bleed into PvE negatively, negatively impacting what is arguably the last healthy portion of the game.

> > So seeing as i feel that it's a waste of resources, i too think that sPvP and/or WvW should be a paid feature. At least then they can pay for themselves, instead of mooching off the money for PvE. Now that doesn't sound like a good idea either, does it? And yet the argument is basically the same.

>

> No its not because raids and fractals dont mix with the other modes at all. A better arguement would be to pay for better balance overall and since that would actually be game wide it wouldnt work. On the other hand raids and fractal cms are only a part of the pve side of the game and them being paid or not wont affect anyone else.

>

> Aditionally making pvp/wvw balance paid wont change the fact that theres delevoper resources and content being used for pvp content. And having pvp balanced locked wont stop ppl from playing pvp, it will end up with ppl with pve balance playing with ppl with better pvp balance which actually is by definition paying to win.

 

I don't know why you are arguing a strawmen. He gave as comparison having to pay for pvp maps for example.

 

To be honest the quality won't suddenly rise if they let them be paid.

[Westenev.5289]

I have enough trouble as it is convincing friends or guildmates to play Raids or Fractals. I don't need this difficulty compounded by a paywall that can potentially prevent me from playing with said friends and guildmates - especially if I happen to like a particular fractal or raid that others might find unpopular.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"aceofbass.2163" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > A single fractal or even a raid wing, is no where near enough content to qualify for a paid DLC.

> > And then there's the Pay to Win rethoric, and overall image of the game. People were already throwing "P2W" around, when speaking about Elite specializations and the power creep associated to them in PvP and WvW. Basically saying that Elite Specs were pay to win.

> > Now imagine that knowing that Raids often have exclusive Legendaries (currently a ring). Add to that that people already feel pretty excluded and gated out of Raids as it is, compound that with having to pay for the feature.

>

> You know when I read your comments I agree with you especially on this one.

>

> > Also, lets flip that argument around. I personally feel that PvP and WvW in their current iterations are dead weight and a waste of dev time, doing more to harm the game than good. And that's actually my honest opinion. Balance attempts for PvP (structured or WvW) often bleed into PvE negatively, negatively impacting what is arguably the last healthy portion of the game.

> > So seeing as i feel that it's a waste of resources, i too think that sPvP and/or WvW should be a paid feature. At least then they can pay for themselves, instead of mooching off the money for PvE. Now that doesn't sound like a good idea either, does it? And yet the argument is basically the same.

>

> Now this is where you went overboard. If anything, wvw retains more ppl because of the competitive nature and unpredictability unlike a theme park pve where the content is limited and once you have used that up, people gets bored and leave. Hence:

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > Sure why not, better than waiting

>

> The issue is wvw gets the least attention by devs that's why it's so stale right now.

>

1) It gets the least attention of the devs, **and** the players. I don't have strict numbers, of course, but from anecdotal experience, and a quick glance at GW2Efficiency. I can find a easy source of comparisson. The levels. It's arguably an unfair comparison, because Fractal levels aren't earned automatically, and players that don't go past Tier1 are forever lvl 25, while you just need to run around playing PvE in a borderland for WXP. And yet, the 50 percentile of WXP levels is 38/10000, and Fractals is 37/100. That alone should be sufficient to prove to you.

 

2) The devs aren't that innept man, if WvW was the major engine of the game, if most people were playing GW2 for the WvW, you can bet they'd have 1 living world team and 2 WvW teams, but they don't, because it's fringe content. Which is why it's even more logical to put a pay wall behind it. If people are actively and directly paying for that content, then they can have more people behind it. PvE content on the other hand, is arguably the engine behind the game's economy.

 

Anyway, my "suggestion" was obviously only there as a counter-point to show how ridiculous the OP idea is. So discussing it's merits is moot.

 

 

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Stupid idea imho.

> With the current LS some friends of mine had their "coming back for 2 weeks" once again and they still refuse to play instanced content like fracs and raids - completely. We have to accept it: The majority of players isn't even interested in playing fracs or raids. It's highly debatable that a lot of the rest would pay for certain DLCs so it can be enough to support the employment of enough developers (we know that 4-5 wouldn't suffice).

> Anet isn't even able to ship out proper LS maps anymore. The current release is a poor stereotype of older stuff, the story is a little bit amusing but like always a "one-timer". For me, the new map is a disaster and a lot of the achievement again boring stuff + they make it worse to add a heavy grindy turret game achievement which looks like they were running out of ideas and enthusiasm.

 

I have to agree with this. ANet isn't even able to release quality open-world-content anymore. Why should they focus on content which is intentionally niche due to overall catastrophic game design? The truth won't be popular in this forum, but raids and fractals simply don't matter all that much. It's very clear that this game has some fundamental flaws that ANet should fix first, especially if they want to make fractals and raids more popular (instead of keeping them niche due to how this game is designed). Some fundamental flaws are:

 

* This is easily the MMORPG with the worst class balance I've ever played. It's also the MMORPG with the strictest trinity I've ever played. Looking at WvW, PvP and instanced PvE-content, this game is - if at all - only balanced for open-world-activities. To make other content more popular and thus justify preferential treatment for said content, this game needs an overall class-overhaul in a way that doesn't make already far too overpowered classes even more overpowered (*cough* Mesmer... *cough*), but brings them overall more in tune with other classes. That's not only limited to dps-classes, but first and foremost to the atrocious game-design of GW2s so-called "support-trinity". Stacking several crucial roles on one class alone is just stupid game-design. Chrono is the most atrocious offender here (the designated tank shouldn't also be one of the crucial support-classes), but at least they're trying to bring druid more in line, I guess? Concerning dps-classes, they really need to improve balance and that just doesn't mean numbers, it also means gameplay. The difference in dps-potentials is already ridiculous and the "flavor of the encounter" game design makes it even worse. No class should be king of the hill at one encounter and pure trash at another. There's also the problem of some really whacky game design concerning pdps and cdps.

 

* This is also the most unsociable - if not anti-social - MMORPG I've ever played. People simply aren't encouraged to team up making finding people for instanced content harder than it should be in a MMORPG. There is no world-chat (which would be a catastrophe anyway due to the megaserver-architecture), there are no real social hubs, there is no guild-browser. Why is there still no guild-browser in 2018? Add to that the rather unfortunate daily/weekly-system the game offers. Why should friends, who like to do raids, raid with me, when they already have a static and won't profit doing raids with me that way? The reward-structures really aren't that great. While I can agree that it's reasonable that LI are a weekly thing, I don't get why the rest of the loot should be weekly-locked. There is absolutely no incentive to do raids more than once per week and the faction, who's doing raids mostly for fun, is rather small. I mean, the "worst case" would be that people grind stuff like Escort and/or Cairn for hours/days to buy ghostly infusions; they still would have to search for an opener for that stuff due to the checkpoint-system in raids. Again, even in this regard, GW2 is only balanced for open-world-content.

 

* Another fundamental problem is the skill-indicator-system GW2 uses. The LI/KP-system is just stupid. The main-storyline should set a skill-level-minimum which is sufficient for instanced PvE-content. Although it at least feels like they're improving here, most story-encounters are rather annoying than difficult (that stupid Joko-fight in E3 was really fun as melee...). Due to the increase of possible LI/KP per week and the lack of a gear-treadmill, raid-content also doesn't really get more accessible due to getting older. Sure, there's stuff like power-creep due to new specializations and rather questionable design-decisions like that yellow eyesore, but that's not helping as much as a gear-treadmill in more traditional MMORPGs. A good example would be Dhuum. As a rather new player to raids, it's mostly impossible do get access to Dhuum (even other encounters in w5 aren't that accessible, even though there is your occasional philanthropic free-river-group). It will certainly be the same with new encounters in the upcoming raid-wing.

 

Considering these arguments: Why should ANet focus on more fractals and raids - especially CMs? Fractals and raids are already niche. CMs are a really nichy niche inside that niche. In that regard, we should be content, that we at least get new "normal" raids and fractals and hope, that they at least deliver quality open-world-content again and improve the overall gaming-experience GW2 offers. Especially in that regard - the overall gaming-experience - GW2 wastes a lot of potential.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Keep in mind that in LS4 we'll get 3 Raid Wings while LS3 had only 1 Raid Wing. I don't think there is a problem with Raid Wing releases, if anything they are giving us more, not less.

 

Best to wait and see if they can deliver on this, I suppose. Though considering they are talking about 3 raid wings, are we getting more wings to underworld three raid wings attached to each other or 3 single raid wings.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > Oh, i'd love that. It would kill any chance of major future raid and fractal cm development, and would necessitate moving some rewards from behind the paid block towards more core content.

> >

> > Although i'm not sure if that would be what you wanted.

> >

> > Honestly, i doubt there's enough people that want that type of content badly enough to be willing to pay for it to make that mode sustainable in this model. As it is now, it's mostly funded by people that do _not_ play it (And are ofteh excluded from it for one reason or another).

>

> Same for WvW and PvP. So just remove everything other than open world? Or is it again your hate against PvE content you don't like?

Seriously, i'm not the one advocating turning raids into pay dlc. I was merely pointing out that doing that would almost certainly kill that content, which is unlikely to be OPs intention. Yes, the same would be true for WvW and SPvP, but then i don't hear anyone from that mode having such suicidal ideas.

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Oh, i'd love that. It would kill any chance of major future raid and fractal cm development, and would necessitate moving some rewards from behind the paid block towards more core content.

>

> Although i'm not sure if that would be what you wanted.

>

> Honestly, i doubt there's enough people that want that type of content badly enough to be willing to pay for it to make that mode sustainable in this model. As it is now, it's mostly funded by people that do _not_ play it (And are ofteh excluded from it for one reason or another).

 

is almost funded by fashions wars casuals.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> Fact is 300 days for two raid bosses is kitten ridiculous. Compare this to the competition, they release one full raid every 3-5 months with like 6-10 bosses.

 

What competition? You mean Wow, Ff14? Those games had raids as end game from the start. Gw2 was never in the same boat.

[Aktium.9506]

im so deflated by the current laughable release schedule

 

id pay money if it meant at least bi-monthly raid releases

 

the current pace for actual content is worse than chinese f2p throwaway mmos used for money laundering

[aceofbass.2163]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

>The levels. It's arguably an unfair comparison, because Fractal levels aren't earned automatically, and players that don't go past Tier1 are forever lvl 25, while you just need to run around playing PvE in a borderland for WXP.

 

That my friend, is the most casual play in wvw I have heard. If someone is doing this he has obviously no intent of even trying out wvw and would quit day 1 from boredom.

 

>And yet, the 50 percentile of WXP levels is 38/10000, and Fractals is 37/100. That alone should be sufficient to prove to you.

 

Uhm....what? You lost me there lol

 

> Anyway, my "suggestion" was obviously only there as a counter-point to show how ridiculous the OP idea is. So discussing it's merits is moot.

 

Geezas this idea is just atrocious. Splitting the playerbase and all. Go play EA games OP if you want DLCs galore.

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> 1) It gets the least attention of the devs, **and** the players. I don't have strict numbers, of course, but from anecdotal experience, and a quick glance at GW2Efficiency. I can find a easy source of comparisson. The levels. It's arguably an unfair comparison, because Fractal levels aren't earned automatically, and players that don't go past Tier1 are forever lvl 25, while you just need to run around playing PvE in a borderland for WXP. And yet, the 50 percentile of WXP levels is 38/10000, and Fractals is 37/100. That alone should be sufficient to prove to you.

The 50th percentile for both LI and magnetites is **0**, you know.

 

Using this statistics raids would be more niche than WvW. Let that sink in for you.

(no, i don't actually say you should use them or that they are reliable, but it was you that brought gw2eff into this discussion)

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"aceofbass.2163" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> >The levels. It's arguably an unfair comparison, because Fractal levels aren't earned automatically, and players that don't go past Tier1 are forever lvl 25, while you just need to run around playing PvE in a borderland for WXP.

>

> That my friend, is the most casual play in wvw I have heard. If someone is doing this he has obviously no intent of even trying out wvw and would quit day 1 from boredom.

>

> >And yet, the 50 percentile of WXP levels is 38/10000, and Fractals is 37/100. That alone should be sufficient to prove to you.

>

> Uhm....what? You lost me there lol

>

> > Anyway, my "suggestion" was obviously only there as a counter-point to show how ridiculous the OP idea is. So discussing it's merits is moot.

>

> Geezas this idea is just atrocious. Splitting the playerbase and all. Go play EA games OP if you want DLCs galore.

>

>

 

I suggest you read what i wrote again. Seriously. And if after you read it again you still think your reply makes sense, well, repeat until it doesn't.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > 1) It gets the least attention of the devs, **and** the players. I don't have strict numbers, of course, but from anecdotal experience, and a quick glance at GW2Efficiency. I can find a easy source of comparisson. The levels. It's arguably an unfair comparison, because Fractal levels aren't earned automatically, and players that don't go past Tier1 are forever lvl 25, while you just need to run around playing PvE in a borderland for WXP. And yet, the 50 percentile of WXP levels is 38/10000, and Fractals is 37/100. That alone should be sufficient to prove to you.

> The 50th percentile for both LI and magnetites is **0**, you know.

>

> Using this statistics raids would be more niche than WvW. Let that sink in for you.

> (no, i don't actually say you should use them or that they are reliable, but it was you that brought gw2eff into this discussion)

>

 

Not contesting that, because Raids **are** more Niche. I don't doubt the representativity of that statistic, not only because it's harder to obtain Li and magnetite, but because people get scared off the content. Also it's much simpler to join WvW and play it for a few minutes. Heck even just for a quick daily capturing a camp or a monument, than it is to join a raid and finish an encounter.

 

Also, unlike fractal levels and WvW ranks, Li and Magnetite are a consumable, so it's quite risky to use those alone to compare populations, you can't say for certain that 50% have 0, but you can say that at least 20% played Raids.

 

And again, why are we discussing this, i just used WvW as a counter-point to how ridiculous the original point is... Get over it! It's not meant to be a real suggestion! And it's quite plain in that post!

 

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> First of all does this mean that a raid that is practically done will release with the new lw update? Because that depressing. Secondly if its so hard for anet to make raids and cms with a faster pace i would honestly suggest making fractal cms and raids paid dlc. I dont expect anet to rival wow, ff14 and eso in terms of new content as the companies behind those games ask you for money (dlc or flat out sub fees).

 

Many people buy the expansions as their "pass" to raids/fractals. They don't care about the story or open world maps, they buy the expansion knowing that is what gives them access to the content they want.

Do you really expect these players to happily get double dipped?

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Also, unlike fractal levels and WvW ranks, Li and Magnetite are a consumable, so it's quite risky to use those alone to compare populations, you can't say for certain that 50% have 0, but you can say that at least 20% played Raids.

I don't know about magnetites, but at least as far as LIs go, the site does seem to count those that i have spent too. Most probably by tracking what you can buy with those (which isn't that hard, since there are no consumables/one use objects there).

 

>

> And again, why are we discussing this, i just used WvW as a counter-point to how ridiculous the original point is... Get over it! It's not meant to be a real suggestion! And it's quite plain in that post!

In this, then, at least we do agree.

Although it seems you've completely misread Op's intention and the reasons behind it. I'm pretty sure Op thinks raids are so popular they can easily get away with additional funding in the way of DLCs. Thus, your "counterargument" completely misses its mark.

 

[thrag.9740]

I personally would not mind paying more for raids and fractals as dlc (against as OP said, with the assurance of more content).

 

BUT, that would be a complete 180 on the pay structure Anet has promoted since per-release. I believe making raids or fractal cms into seperate dlc would have terrible back lash, and hurt Anet's reputation. That is why I am voting, 'No'.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

>

Raids and Fractals are the same team working on two different products. Our cadence is currently integrated with Living World episode releases. You'll see the next raid before the next fractal, as that is how we have staggered development.

>

> First of all does this mean that a raid that is practically done will release with the new lw update?

 

Not necessarily: being integrated with the release schedule could mean that they deliberately release raid and fractal content *between* LS episodes, so that they (a) avoid more bugs at one time, and (b) don't have players torn between new raid/fractal and new story.

 

At least, as a developer, that is how I would read that statement. It is ... your reading isn't wrong, but usually programmers would choose a different term to express "these must happen at the same time", in my experience. So, I suspect -- but obviously can't prove -- that it doesn't mean simultaneous releases.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> At least, as a developer, that is how I would read that statement. It is ... your reading isn't wrong, but usually programmers would choose a different term to express "these must happen at the same time", in my experience. So, I suspect -- but obviously can't prove -- that it doesn't mean simultaneous releases.

 

I read it as "Raids and Fractals will be released with Living World Episodes" but maybe you are right. Personally I think both Fractals and Raids have no reason to be released together with an Episode, in fact it's counter productive. Fortunately Deepstone was an easy fractal, but if it was a much harder one, with CMs and challenging bosses then releasing together with an episode is a bad idea. We'll see what that phrase means when the next Raid wing is released.

[zealex.9410]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > Keep in mind that in LS4 we'll get 3 Raid Wings while LS3 had only 1 Raid Wing. I don't think there is a problem with Raid Wing releases, if anything they are giving us more, not less.

> >

> > We got 4 Wings during the HoT content cycle. So far we got 1 during the PoF cycle. I dont think we are getting more.

> > Since February 8th, 2017 we got 1 Wing with 2 Bosses and 2 Events. Thats 510 Days. Hall of Chains was released 217 days ago. As far as instanced content goes we got 1 Fractal without a CM in the meantime.

> >

> > There is a big problem with instanced content releases in general. Not just Raids.

>

> We got 1 Wing in LS3, the first 3 Wings were developed together with the expansion, they obviously had way more time to create those 3 and they were mostly done by the time Heart of Thorns was out. They had 10 months (depending on when the Raid team was formed) to make those 3 Wings. It's more appropriate to compare what we got afterward, unless we want another 10 month content drought somewhere so they make 3 full Raid Wings in that time.

>

> W3 -> W4: Bastion was released 239 days after W3, and 4 episodes later

> W4 -> W5: Hall of Chains was released 293 days after W4, and 3 episodes later

> Since W5: we are at 2 episodes (including Long Live the Lich) or 217 days since W4

> It's still early for a Raid Wing release.

>

> As for Fractals:

> Out of the Shadows: July 26, 2016

> Nightmare: November 21, 2016 (118 days) CM

> Shattered Observatory: July 25 2017 (246 days) CM

>

> Twilight Oasis: November 28, 2017 (126 days)

> Deepstone: June 26, 2018 (210 days)

>

> The Fractal release schedule does look similar if you compare LS3 with LS4.

>

> > I dont think we are getting more.

> The recent developer AMA says otherwise:

> > Next raid is essentially done, and only waiting for late-stage development assets, like VO for example

> and

> > I wish I could give you numbers on cadence, but I will say that the third raid wing for this season is already in early production.

>

 

Its not compairable. SE3 started the second half of hot while se4 started in the first half. if we compaired it based on time we w8ed 9 or so months for w4 10 or so for w5 and it seems like we are gonna be w8ing 9 or 10 again for w6.

[zealex.9410]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > First of all does this mean that a raid that is practically done will release with the new lw update? Because that depressing. Secondly if its so hard for anet to make raids and cms with a faster pace i would honestly suggest making fractal cms and raids paid dlc. I dont expect anet to rival wow, ff14 and eso in terms of new content as the companies behind those games ask you for money (dlc or flat out sub fees).

>

> Many people buy the expansions as their "pass" to raids/fractals. They don't care about the story or open world maps, they buy the expansion knowing that is what gives them access to the content they want.

> Do you really expect these players to happily get double dipped?

>

>

 

Regardless what they like or not the product they buy is the stuff that come with the box, if they choose to disregard the content that was provided with the expansion and say they didnt get anything for their money is not anet's concern.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > While I usually support similar ideas, I have to disagree this would work on a MMO.

> > >

> > Eso ties its raids and dungeons from what ik to paid dlc.

> >

>

> Yes and ESO also has gear progression essentially forcing people to buy said content IF they want to remain up to date on their equipment. Not really applicable to GW2 is it?

>

Ppl stay and play the content regardless of the gear progressions its existance or not doesnt matter in terms of selling a product.

 

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > Work and design schedules and priorities aren't simply reassigned weekly or monthly. Mid to long term organization is required to implement good content.

> > >

> > > Now if people were to argue if there should be a move to say a subscription, that I could understand or argue for or against (not saying I'd support or oppose this, simply that it would make more sense from a business perspective). That would be a change which allows for reallocation of assets and developers away from current monetization and towards more game assets and content.

> > >

> > > Having irregular or unstable spike revenue won't have that positive kind of effect. What about if people are unsatisfied with the content or the rewards? Suddenly revenue drops and what, you lay off the teams you just hired? It doesn't work.

> >

> > Having no revenue from said content tho isnt any better seeing their content delivery. Further more the whole game rn works on an irregular or unstable revenue model, if theres a gemstore update ppl dont like or against of what do they do they lay off teams?

>

> No, they add more items which will generate revenue. Say like extra bank tabs, oh look what got added just now.

 

If someone does want to buy these things because there are ppl that dont want said thing in the cash shop then what does anet do?

[zealex.9410]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> >

Raids and Fractals are the same team working on two different products. Our cadence is currently integrated with Living World episode releases. You'll see the next raid before the next fractal, as that is how we have staggered development.

> >

> > First of all does this mean that a raid that is practically done will release with the new lw update?

>

> Not necessarily: being integrated with the release schedule could mean that they deliberately release raid and fractal content *between* LS episodes, so that they (a) avoid more bugs at one time, and (b) don't have players torn between new raid/fractal and new story.

>

 

Thats exactly what they do. If you want reference you have all the double and triple releases to look at, we never got a standalone raid and fractal release.

 

> At least, as a developer, that is how I would read that statement. It is ... your reading isn't wrong, but usually programmers would choose a different term to express "these must happen at the same time", in my experience. So, I suspect -- but obviously can't prove -- that it doesn't mean simultaneous releases.

 

If they decide against the norm and release the raid standalone then i wouldnt be surprised. A look under that statement's comments will show u how against that practice are ppl.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Stupid idea imho.

> With the current LS some friends of mine had their "coming back for 2 weeks" once again and they still refuse to play instanced content like fracs and raids - completely. We have to accept it: The majority of players isn't even interested in playing fracs or raids. It's highly debatable that a lot of the rest would pay for certain DLCs so it can be enough to support the employment of enough developers (we know that 4-5 wouldn't suffice).

> Anet isn't even able to ship out proper LS maps anymore. The current release is a poor stereotype of older stuff, the story is a little bit amusing but like always a "one-timer". For me, the new map is a disaster and a lot of the achievement again boring stuff + they make it worse to add a heavy grindy turret game achievement which looks like they were running out of ideas and enthusiasm.

 

Arena net has to spread the income from the gemstore across the game and the content delivery in both the fractal and the raid show that this might not be enough for them to keep an acceptable pace. U also compaire free content im talking about paid content. Ofc if what a paid raid looked like was what we get rn at the same pace ofc then it wouldnt be worth paying for.

[zealex.9410]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Keep in mind that in LS4 we'll get 3 Raid Wings while LS3 had only 1 Raid Wing. I don't think there is a problem with Raid Wing releases, if anything they are giving us more, not less.

 

Bad comparison imo. U shouldnt compaire lw updates as those and highly flexible in format and stucture. Se3 came with 1 raids but that was after 3 wings released in a good pace.

 

Se4 came with 1 raid wing after 9 or so months of down time and the next one seem to follow the same format of 8 to 9 months inbetween.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > Stupid idea imho.

> > With the current LS some friends of mine had their "coming back for 2 weeks" once again and they still refuse to play instanced content like fracs and raids - completely. We have to accept it: The majority of players isn't even interested in playing fracs or raids. It's highly debatable that a lot of the rest would pay for certain DLCs so it can be enough to support the employment of enough developers (we know that 4-5 wouldn't suffice).

> > Anet isn't even able to ship out proper LS maps anymore. The current release is a poor stereotype of older stuff, the story is a little bit amusing but like always a "one-timer". For me, the new map is a disaster and a lot of the achievement again boring stuff + they make it worse to add a heavy grindy turret game achievement which looks like they were running out of ideas and enthusiasm.

>

> Arena net has to spread the income from the gemstore across the game and the content delivery in both the fractal and the raid show that this might not be enough for them to keep an acceptable pace. U also compaire free content im talking about paid content. Ofc if what a paid raid looked like was what we get rn at the same pace ofc then it wouldnt be worth paying for.

 

I kept that in mind if you had read correctly. But honestly, what are you ready to pay? 100 $/€? Because it was already mentioned here they would have to hire a lot more developers to make sure we have a constant and shorter release cycle + whitout gamebreaking bugs like now. We won't get more content if the team gets 4-5 developers - not going to happen. Just calculate the annual salary for them. ^^

You still think that the player base for instanced content is so big that enough people would buy them via DLCs. Sorry to say mate, but I'm also almost raiding and playing fractals and we are a fricking tiny minority. And, more important, don't expect all of them to spend money for those things, so the number of actual customers will be much smaller without a doubt!