Do you think Elementalist class "balancing" is justified?

[Guizao.4167]

> @"Dahir.4158" said:

> We asked for staff BUFFS on the forums, but get nerfs instead. Nice :)

 

I kept asking for it and people always kept telling me that it's a waste of time because staff wep is terrible and it won't ever work in pvp and the sort of things. Well, I guess those people got what they wanted.

[Geisterlicht.6083]

Im so happy with this patch and hope this can stay for a while. After all ele was top dps for years...

Now other classes have a chance to become played and ele burst is still the strongest. Its perfect :)

 

[Josre.5924]

Seems like the recurring strategy is to nerf damage (including for core skills!), and toss in a side of buffs for sword ele (they got tired of working on shatterstone after all these years). Since you released PoF and sword weaver...is your vision only to have eles playing this spec? As it appears that they fare the best each patch while the rest of the profession mostly loses out.

 

And you keep tweaking the sword weaver dual skills, but rarely the weaver dual skills for the other weapons. Arguably the sword ones shipped in the most finished state, and keep getting moreso. On many of the weapons, the dual attacks just feel like filler (looking at just about every staff skill except piledriver).

 

 

 

 

[Henrik.7560]

They are destroying 2012 skills to nerf a spec released in 2017.

Stop nerfing Lava Font, Meteor Shower, Conjures.

Fix the broken weaver mechanics and/or traits you released recently.

 

Core ele and Tempest deal mediocre dps and will struggle in even fractals/dungeons, while weaver will do moderate damage. Not to mention this messes up weaver or dps tempest in competitive game modes like WvW; it was always high risk high reward and was a fair trade. But now with the huge damage nerfs, we may as well just play Herald or Scourge. There was nothing to compensate for the nerfs. If the sustain was buffed, maybe it would be managable but taking 30% of its dps away is uncalled for.

[maddoctor.2738]

So the hardest to stay alive profession is now not on the top of the DPS charts while easy to survive professions will reach the top now. Congratulations at anyone that calls themselves a "balance dev". What I suggest every balance developer to do:

Take one after the other the professions you just "balanced" and go kill Joko (in the latest episode) and see which one was the easiest and which one was the hardest.

I'm taking a guess here that Elementalist/Weaver is going to be the hardest, by a huge difference.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Naustis.8510" said:

> Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

>

> PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

 

It would be perfect if the other classes required the same amount of effort to be on par, not 3 times less.

[Dadnir.5038]

PvE: condi elementalists (any spec) will make a come back

PvP/WvW: elementalist can now relieve a bit more condi pressure and gained a bit of burst on "impact" skills.

 

To be honest, almost all professions took the dps nerfbat with this patch. Elementalist traded power sustain damage for power burst. The logic answer will be to dust off the old condi build that the community will surprisingly found to be effective and have more room for equiping invuln skills that now also mitigate condi damages. Tempest build will see more love from the players because the gap with weaver have been closed quite a bit and it's less difficult to play.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> PvE: condi elementalists (any spec) will make a come back

 

No they won't. There's no reason to pick this over a better performing and much safer Mirage or a Deadeye. It is still "staff or go home", except now it's more like "why don't you just go home?". In theory staff can pull some competitive dps, but it is so much extra effort for no extra reward there's really no point in even trying.

[supreme.3602]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> PvE: condi elementalists (any spec) will make a come back

> PvP/WvW: elementalist can now relieve a bit more condi pressure and gained a bit of burst on "impact" skills.

>

> To be honest, almost all professions took the dps nerfbat with this patch. Elementalist traded power sustain damage for power burst. The logic answer will be to dust off the old condi build that the community will surprisingly found to be effective and have more room for equiping invuln skills that now also mitigate condi damages. Tempest build will see more love from the players because the gap with weaver have been closed quite a bit and it's less difficult to play.

 

No thanks.

[Naustis.8510]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

> >

> > PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

>

> It would be perfect if the other classes required the same amount of effort to be on par, not 3 times less.

 

Weaver didn't require that much more efford than other classes to beat them in dps. You could pull dps on pair with other classes just by using lava font / hammer / staff5. And best weavers were miles ahead of other classes. That is not what you call balance. Ele players are such a snowflakes. You're still on the top, just not the undisputed rank1. More changes like that please.

 

> @"Guizao.4167" said:

> > @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

> >

> > PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

>

> Ha, sorry if an ele took your spot in raid ;)

 

Ele was taking everyone's spot in raid. There was not a single reason to take other dps classes. Now, when you were pulled back to the line it may change ;)

[Solidaris.5423]

> > @"Guizao.4167" said:

> > > @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > > Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

> > >

> > > PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

> >

> > Ha, sorry if an ele took your spot in raid ;)

>

> Ele was taking everyone's spot in raid. There was not a single reason to take other dps classes. Now, when you were pulled back to the line it may change ;)

everyone's?

So Elementalist took the spot from healer Druids and Support Chronos? :D

Let's be honest Elementalist is squishy and right now only used for DPS and weakening that will make people angry. At least give us the chance to survive more.

By the way why shouldn't we bring Druid healing or Chrono boon sharing on pair with other classes as well then? I want to support as Tempest already without getting called names for it X)

 

To the topic: Sorry but the poll is pretty pointless because of course the majority will vote for no because this is the Elementalist sub-forum.

[Megametzler.5729]

They didn't buff shatterstone!

 

Seriously, though, they actually nerfed ele in PVP. Some random unused or useless skills were buffed, but a couple of skills can't be used while kiting anymore, which was actually helpful. Remember when they said they'd have a "close look on how ele performs"? Seems like we were too stronk. Very poor decisions.

 

€: The invul buff is also not helpfull at all.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

Pve wise : I didn't want a nerf on staff but a full rework of the skills and mechanics. Okay ele was top dps .... but there's plenty of downsides

* Low HP

* Long delay for max burst dmg

* * Rotation is harder to complete if not stationnary

* Enormous loss of dmg if the target moves.

* You getting kicked if not above other dps.

* Almost useless in fractals (at least not optimum)

 

PvP wise : I was expecting some adjustement on sword since they talk about it and the changes were about more ticks on AOE ... Like ... you don't understand why ele has so few dmg in pvp right? cause these changes won't help overall dmg unless you have a duo Ranger that can spam immob.

 

Sheering edge and natural frenzy changes also doesn't help at all while being chased (chill apply while running)

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > > Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

> > >

> > > PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

> >

> > It would be perfect if the other classes required the same amount of effort to be on par, not 3 times less.

>

> Weaver didn't require that much more efford than other classes to beat them in dps. You could pull dps on pair with other classes just by using lava font / hammer / staff5. And best weavers were miles ahead of other classes. That is not what you call balance. Ele players are such a snowflakes. You're still on the top, just not the undisputed rank1. More changes like that please.

 

That's outright untrue. Using LF/MS/hammer will only let you outdps really bad players, nothing more. The problem is, by reducing the advantage you could theoretically get with an ele, you're effectively shutting the average players out of the class. They'll be just bad. Because the rotation is that much more demanding and it gives that much more chances for mistakes. Mistakes which they'll make, and lose a lot of dps as a result. Meanwhile the newest FOTM no-brain builds will press skills off cooldown and outdamage them while munching popcorn and browsing facebook on their second monitor. Great reward for actually trying to play the game, right?

[Alexxx.4257]

> @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > > Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

> > >

> > > PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

> >

> > It would be perfect if the other classes required the same amount of effort to be on par, not 3 times less.

>

> Weaver didn't require that much more efford than other classes to beat them in dps. You could pull dps on pair with other classes just by using lava font / hammer / staff5. And best weavers were miles ahead of other classes. That is not what you call balance. Ele players are such a snowflakes. You're still on the top, just not the undisputed rank1. More changes like that please.

>

> > @"Guizao.4167" said:

> > > @"Naustis.8510" said:

> > > Perfect patch. They bring down Ele from being OP to be on pair with other classes. At least here Anet devs made a good decision :)

> > >

> > > PS. To people who are saying Ele is garbage now. You just were nerfed to the point where you don't outdps 2nd best spec by 20-30% ;) weaver is still fine with 37k dps

> >

> > Ha, sorry if an ele took your spot in raid ;)

>

> Ele was taking everyone's spot in raid. There was not a single reason to take other dps classes. Now, when you were pulled back to the line it may change ;)

 

Have you ever really played Ele/Weaver? Doesn't seem like you have and talk without knowing anything about the profession.

Yes, Weaver dps was good; in fact, one of the highest on the game. The problem is that you actually need to do more than facerolling in order to play it. Weaver has 30 active spells making it obviously harder to learn than any other profession but the variety of spells made it also really strong once you figured out how to actually deal with it.

Lava front was ~40% of a Weaver damage so nerfing this for 40% means you decrease the overall staff damage for 20% ish. Now, if you look at the actual skill it's a small aoe spell with delayed damage. Every player with brain dodgerolls it if they're not tanky (same goes for good dps on fire/earth 3 not sure what the name is)or just walks out of it getting ticked once. Meteor is kinda the same, but with a better aoe range.

 

Ele was really good for PvE due to the fact that mobs don't move. If Weavers can get the entire combo down on someone it's huge dps, and a I don't disagree that this kind of deserves a nerf, seeing as top 3 damage spells are aoes. The only good spells beside the aoes are arguably earth/air dual air 2 and water 2. Here again, water 2 has decent dps but is delayed af so hitting it on actual players is hard.

 

Everyone saying Weaver outdamaged all other professions is pure bullshit. The only thing weaver was able to outdamage other professions in is PvE due to the fact that mobs don't dodge your spells. Now that our 2 most important spells got nerfed heavily other professions can do the same amount of damage in PvE while having better mobility (Ele had literally 1 blink and nothing else), sustain (if you want to do damage your heal is super weak) and CC as weaver has more or less only soft cc.

 

Now, for sPvP Ele has never really been a good call. The only thing you can play in sPvP is FA which got nerfed already and duelist s/d weaver which is alright. The buffs on it are not really buffs though.

Staff Ele which got so heavily nerfed was really bad for sPvP as you died super fast and barely got your damage out due to players being able to dodge meteor or lava. For staff weaver to work in sPvP you need really good positioning and awareness. Now with less damage I fail to see why it would be played over any other class as the only thing it compensated the low surviveability with was dps.

 

Moving on to WvW. WvW was way better for Weaver than sPvP as your aoe skills did hit more often due to the amount of players (zergs) resulting in high dps. You still have 0 surviveabilty but that's a fair trade off. Keep in mind that meteor has a long cast time that makes you an easy target. Here aswell I don't disagree to nerfing the aoe damage but 40% on one spell that does 40% of your total damage is just way too much. If you get a hammer rev they can probably do more damage now pressing hammer 1-5 without brain from the backline and it's also aoes.

 

For me weaver was the most interesting profession to play with all the skills you actually have. But weaver got more and more useless. FA is super weak by now might aswell play mes with gs and press all buttons and kill everyone that has no blocks (I died to this alot playing s/d bunker weaver with 22k HP without being able to press a button). The only weapon you could actually run on weaver was staff to dish out damage now that that's gone you're forced to play a bunker playstyle with s/d in order to play your profession. I wonder why each profession has a bunch of weapons to chose from when most of them are not viable. If you nerf staff that much atleast buff something else so people can play the class with another weapon. Once again the sword buffs are not really buffs due to element of rage nerf. The only thing left for us to do now is play D/d and PvE lul.

 

I'm not that active in WvW but in sPvP there're plenty other actually broken things that should be nerfed. Anet didn't even nerf mes the right way it'll stil be OP as fuck. Might aswell buff holo and spellbreaker so they can destroy s/d weaver on the sidenote every time now. Really seems like that anet wants people to play professions that require a low anount of skill.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Alexxx.4257" said:

> Ele was really good for PvE due to the fact that mobs don't move. If Weavers can get the entire combo down on someone it's huge dps, and a I don't disagree that this kind of deserves a nerf, seeing as top 3 damage spells are aoes.

 

I disagree. In order to outdamage good players, you'd have to be really good yourself. You'd always need to put more effort, so it is only normal to be better rewarded for it. Difference now is, if you want to outdamage good players on other classes you need to be stellar. And also you're putting the same effort but you're no longer getting rewarded for it. Instead, the game tells you "you can do the same with 1/3 of the effort".

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Naustis.8510" said:

> Ele was taking everyone's spot in raid. There was not a single reason to take other dps classes. Now, when you were pulled back to the line it may change ;)

 

Let me tell you a secret: this game doesn't only have Raids. Now that that's out of the way I'm gonna give you a challenge. Take any "meta" DPS build and make ZERO changes to it and go fight Joko in episode 3. Or because Joko is at the end of the story, fight Istari instead (the first boss) it takes 3 minutes to get to her with a new character.

Tell me the results.

[Alexxx.4257]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Alexxx.4257" said:

> > Ele was really good for PvE due to the fact that mobs don't move. If Weavers can get the entire combo down on someone it's huge dps, and a I don't disagree that this kind of deserves a nerf, seeing as top 3 damage spells are aoes.

>

> I disagree. In order to outdamage good players, you'd have to be really good yourself. You'd always need to put more effort, so it is only normal to be better rewarded for it. Difference now is, if you want to outdamage good players on other classes you need to be stellar. And also you're putting the same effort but you're no longer getting rewarded for it. Instead, the game tells you "you can do the same with 1/3 of the effort".

 

Now, yes. Before the patch you did huge dps with only meteor, lava and fire earth 3 you didnt need to cast anything else on a target that doesn't move. Of course you can deal plenty more damage using a complex rotation which actually makes the profession good. But for that you actually need fingers and anet does not want a profession that requires those.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Irokou.3215" said:

> It is simply bad. Anet balancing is just utterly bewildering. Every balance patch there are at last two classes that miss the mark COMPLETELY and it is enough to make me lose faith.

 

And one of them is always necro? Well that's what it feels like. But i feel sorry for you. I think after last patch, ele was fine. Not overdoing it by far, but a solid state.

I don't know Eles dmg exactly right now, but i heard that staff is now pretty much useless.

 

I hope we will get something back next balance patch (necro and ele)

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Alexxx.4257" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Alexxx.4257" said:

> > > Ele was really good for PvE due to the fact that mobs don't move. If Weavers can get the entire combo down on someone it's huge dps, and a I don't disagree that this kind of deserves a nerf, seeing as top 3 damage spells are aoes.

> >

> > I disagree. In order to outdamage good players, you'd have to be really good yourself. You'd always need to put more effort, so it is only normal to be better rewarded for it. Difference now is, if you want to outdamage good players on other classes you need to be stellar. And also you're putting the same effort but you're no longer getting rewarded for it. Instead, the game tells you "you can do the same with 1/3 of the effort".

>

> Now, yes. Before the patch you did huge dps with only meteor, lava and fire earth 3 you didnt need to cast anything else on a target that doesn't move. Of course you can deal plenty more damage using a complex rotation which actually makes the profession good. But for that you actually need fingers and anet does not want a profession that requires those.

 

If you didn't do your complex rotation you'd end up outdpsing only the really, really bad players.

[Widmo.3186]

Let me show you how balancing team works on elementalist from the inside.

Breaking news

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

I said no but its all depends on the benchmarks if it is 38k and more everything is okay.(with a new built)

What also is good they removed the internal cooldown of the icebow which should make it again the summoning weapon to go. They also undone the puls reducing of the fire overload of the Tempest built.(Basically undone 2 nerfs from previous patches)

 

About the changes of the aoes when they are like the on metorshower then the overall dmg shouldn't go down at least this which I hope for. The trait change really hurt and gives the impression ele should form now on built in more vitality in their gear so that the possible nerf is justified.

 

What I wanted to have was for the tempest bigger range for the fire overload and a OP wish would have been longer up time for the boons we get from it which would have make it better in wvw and as a support class.

 

I kinda got this but with an extreme twists with the new update you can say this wasn't what I wished for.

 

About the last few balancing changes I got that they want to put pressure on the meta setup of teams and raids by first nerving the druid then the chrono. Main target of this is making other built more accepted as alternative in those team setups.

 

Problem with the elementist is the class was since vanilla one of the major dmg dealers with the price of low health points I would say this is in most MMO this way with mages.

 

What also changed or changing how the changes let GW2 more and more feel like an hack&slay with this the spike on the DPS got higher because of the 60% more ot the aoes with the first hit

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> I said no but its all depends on the benchmarks if it is 38k and more everything is okay.(with a new built)

 

Meh. 38k on huge hitbox and 10 boons. It's as if Roul is deliberately trying to ruin ele by adding more and more favorable conditions when benchmarking.

Also, getting rid of Air in the rotation is pretty sad.

[Dravis.7681]

2,560 of my 2,747 GW2 hours have been spent playing Ele/Temp/Weaver so yeah... Not real happy. Tried raiding last night and my dps was embarrassing. I agree that lava font needed a nerf cause it was basically doing the same dps as meteor shower which is pretty silly but did we have to change the cooldown and screw up everyone's rotation in the process? I don't get this front loading of dmg on the AoE's at all... Never seen anything like that in any other game I've ever played. It's so counter intuitive. Would make more sense to change meteor shower to "meteor" and just have one huge meteor fall if you want all the damage up front. I dunno... whatever... Pointless to argue about it cause I know they won't change it anyway... Just venting.

 

Suppose it frees up some time to check out some other games I've been putting off, so at least there's that.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Dravis.7681" said:

> 2,560 of my 2,747 GW2 hours have been spent playing Ele/Temp/Weaver so yeah... Not real happy. Tried raiding last night and my dps was embarrassing. I agree that lava font needed a nerf cause it was basically doing the same dps as meteor shower which is pretty silly but did we have to change the cooldown and screw up everyone's rotation in the process? I don't get this front loading of dmg on the AoE's at all... Never seen anything like that in any other game I've ever played. It's so counter intuitive. Would make more sense to change meteor shower to "meteor" and just have one huge meteor fall if you want all the damage up front. I dunno... whatever... Pointless to argue about it cause I know they won't change it anyway... Just venting.

>

> Suppose it frees up some time to check out some other games I've been putting off, so at least there's that.

 

Elemental Attunement: Fixed a bug in which the regeneration boon was applied to allies when an elementalist attuned to water for a second time.

 

Another nerf this time a bug?