[Suggestion] Gear normalization in WvW/EOTM with the alliance rework

[Jski.6180]

I am still of the mind of setting every thing to exotic level and add in an easy to get exotic level legendarily set wepon trinkets and armor. You can still get asnced level and use it in pve but it still gets set back to exotic level in wvw setting. That would be a good wvw week as well to test it.

 

But by doing this you can add in higher levels of gear in pve with out destroying wvw balancing (well what balancing there is).

[Strider Pj.2193]

Either option doesn't work.

 

Third option: give exotic level amulets to new players upon first entering WvW as starter gear. Allow ascended and other gear to people who craft/earn it.

 

Oh wait... that is available from the Karma vendor as Karma armor for the base stats.

 

Question for the OP: what about ascended gear makes large scale balance an issue?

 

If your issue is with roaming or 10 or less, the mode was never meant to be balanced for that.

[GwAddict.9746]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> Either option doesn't work.

>

> Third option: give exotic level amulets to new players upon first entering WvW as starter gear. Allow ascended and other gear to people who craft/earn it.

>

> Oh wait... that is available from the Karma vendor as Karma armor for the base stats.

 

I'm curious why won't either option work when it's simply a proposal to balance out everyone in WvW statistically?

 

Exotic amulets of expansion aren't that easy to obtain by karma vendor and many builds uses the expansion stats.

 

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> Question for the OP: what about ascended gear makes large scale balance an issue?

>

> If your issue is with roaming or 10 or less, the mode was never meant to be balanced for that.

 

It's not about ascended gear being the issue, it's about balancing everyone statistically for _fairer_ fights. Also the fact that there won't be much of an entry barrier for newer players (who dislikes PvE but is willing to play just for the RvR mode) to enter the WvW aside from skill/trait/spec knowledge. It'll encourage more people to try out WvW thereby helping the population. Changing builds on the fly also adds to insane QoL for WvW'ers just like it's in sPvP although on a much smaller scale.

 

Also making roaming more balanced as a result of that. If it was never meant to be balanced for something then why try to balance stuff at all? Was population meant to be balanced or was it ever balanced in 6 years? No because people moved freely and the population cap was too high which allowed bandwagons to happen (BG, SFR) but that isn't stopping Anet from attempting it through alliance system although it's a much tougher task.

 

[maxwelgm.4315]

Regardless of whether or not I agree with any of that, I think it should _not_ be a priority at all that this comes in any way with the alliance rework. Stats and gear are the least of our problems in WvW. Within a very large margin any player can and should adapt for lack of gear by making use of terrain/mobility/etc AND exotic is within enough % margin of distance from ascended that you can compensate for that. And this is only for solo fights since in zergs and even larger roaming groups this again becomes fully irrelevant.

 

Also, even though WvW in itself rewards no gold at all (something they said will be looked upon after alliances are here), the PvE aspect is still relevant and is what makes the mode distinct from PvP (it is NOT sPvP and can't be approached as such).

 

What will make the mode more welcoming to new players are rewards, simple as that. Having only super long term rewards like the mistforged skins and having an awful cadence of rewarding puts most people off from the beginning, when they get over to EBG and find out they can cap a camp and afk farm their Gift of Battle and no possibility of plentiful rewards inbetween. AFTER rewards, and only after that, what will _keep_ them playing is how population and attack/defense dynamics are handled, and this is what the rework is supposedly attempting to address.

[Maggi.6325]

You shouldn't forget all the rewards you get via reward tracks and pips, those would have to be changed completly, otherwise you will have a sizable portion of the community who only plays WvW and doesn't care about PvE getting stuff they will never ever need. So what do you do about those people, do you just say we don't care or go play PvE? You would have to redesign all the rewards to get a more monetary reward so the players can use that to get Legendary Weapons or other skins. Becuause that is even now the biggest problem with the rewards, you don't really get all that much money, so you need the armor/trinket rewards we get atm, to get properly geared without playing PvE.

Not sure that is worth the actual boon of free gear swapping for everyone even if that sounds really nice in theory and if we are honest in the state of the game atm we won't get so many new players that such a rework would justify the manpower needed to implement that. They should continue to pour all of their available manhours into the Alliance rework before we loose even more players and not start yet another project which would just delay everything else.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > Either option doesn't work.

> >

> > Third option: give exotic level amulets to new players upon first entering WvW as starter gear. Allow ascended and other gear to people who craft/earn it.

> >

> > Oh wait... that is available from the Karma vendor as Karma armor for the base stats.

>

> I'm curious why won't either option work when it's simply a proposal to balance out everyone in WvW statistically?

>

> Exotic amulets of expansion aren't that easy to obtain by karma vendor and many builds uses the expansion stats.

>

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > Question for the OP: what about ascended gear makes large scale balance an issue?

> >

> > If your issue is with roaming or 10 or less, the mode was never meant to be balanced for that.

>

> It's not about ascended gear being the issue, it's about balancing everyone statistically for _fairer_ fights. Also the fact that there won't be much of an entry barrier for newer players (who dislikes PvE but is willing to play just for the RvR mode) to enter the WvW aside from skill/trait/spec knowledge. It'll encourage more people to try out WvW thereby helping the population. Changing builds on the fly also adds to insane QoL for WvW'ers just like it's in sPvP although on a much smaller scale.

>

> Also making roaming more balanced as a result of that. If it was never meant to be balanced for something then why try to balance stuff at all? Was population meant to be balanced or was it ever balanced in 6 years? No because people moved freely and the population cap was too high which allowed bandwagons to happen (BG, SFR) but that isn't stopping Anet from attempting it through alliance system although it's a much tougher task.

>

 

Statistically, at the level of more than ten, and progressively higher numbers, the difference in stats for ascended and ascended becomes a moot point.

 

Even if you assume one server having a 25% usage rate of ascended vs a server with a 50% usage rate, the difference becomes less than 2-3% overall., IF that.

 

Skill of the group overreaches that easily.

 

As to balancing for 1-10 people groups, that is done more in sPvP, but insignificant in larger groups which is what WvW is designed around.

 

If we are to really focus on that level of 'micro balancing' you need to remove WvW ranks and the whole WvW trait lines, as having those advantages on siege, attacks on guards, and ability to carry supply become even more important.

 

Too much about WvW would change.

 

Maybe put a post on sPvP asking for 10v10 maps that have points to fight over.

[GwAddict.9746]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > Either option doesn't work.

> > >

> > > Third option: give exotic level amulets to new players upon first entering WvW as starter gear. Allow ascended and other gear to people who craft/earn it.

> > >

> > > Oh wait... that is available from the Karma vendor as Karma armor for the base stats.

> >

> > I'm curious why won't either option work when it's simply a proposal to balance out everyone in WvW statistically?

> >

> > Exotic amulets of expansion aren't that easy to obtain by karma vendor and many builds uses the expansion stats.

> >

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > Question for the OP: what about ascended gear makes large scale balance an issue?

> > >

> > > If your issue is with roaming or 10 or less, the mode was never meant to be balanced for that.

> >

> > It's not about ascended gear being the issue, it's about balancing everyone statistically for _fairer_ fights. Also the fact that there won't be much of an entry barrier for newer players (who dislikes PvE but is willing to play just for the RvR mode) to enter the WvW aside from skill/trait/spec knowledge. It'll encourage more people to try out WvW thereby helping the population. Changing builds on the fly also adds to insane QoL for WvW'ers just like it's in sPvP although on a much smaller scale.

> >

> > Also making roaming more balanced as a result of that. If it was never meant to be balanced for something then why try to balance stuff at all? Was population meant to be balanced or was it ever balanced in 6 years? No because people moved freely and the population cap was too high which allowed bandwagons to happen (BG, SFR) but that isn't stopping Anet from attempting it through alliance system although it's a much tougher task.

> >

>

> Statistically, at the level of more than ten, and progressively higher numbers, the difference in stats for ascended and ascended becomes a moot point.

>

> Even if you assume one server having a 25% usage rate of ascended vs a server with a 50% usage rate, the difference becomes less than 2-3% overall., IF that.

>

> Skill of the group overreaches that easily.

>

> As to balancing for 1-10 people groups, that is done more in sPvP, but insignificant in larger groups which is what WvW is designed around.

>

> If we are to really focus on that level of 'micro balancing' you need to remove WvW ranks and the whole WvW trait lines, as having those advantages on siege, attacks on guards, and ability to carry supply become even more important.

>

> Too much about WvW would change.

>

> Maybe put a post on sPvP asking for 10v10 maps that have points to fight over.

 

Even a small percentage is an increase but taking ascended vs exotic into account, with full 18 stat infusions (+90 in total) that's a pretty big increase which can be slotted but can't be in exotics. I'm all for wiping even this much of difference to promote fairer play.

 

I'm fully aware that skills triumphs in an exotic vs ascended fight but then in a scenario of equally skilled players, it'll be the gear (atleast 12% increase with full infusions) that'll decide the fight and that is what shouldn't happen IMO. sPvP is more competitive because of a level playing field, why not try to apply the same to WvW? I do agree that the amulet system will be awful for WvW hence why this proposal would retain all customizable options just like you can currently.

 

10v10 isn't same as 50v50....

[Voltekka.2375]

Bud, wvw is NOT spvp. It really isnt. Why do you compare those modes? Scourge trailblazer is a joke in blobs. Everything trailblazer is a joke in blobs, laughable damage. Expertise? Useless with all the cleansing. Dire? Lol, too. Condies just dont have enough time to ramp up the damage,they get cleansed. Have you ever thought why hybrids or power builds work best in blobs? Wvw is about large scale fights, not duels or even small scale roaming. And in large scale battles, equipment (ascended vs exotic) really means little - if any-difference, cause positioning and skill matter more.

I remember when the pip system was implemented, queues were huge. And thats because people flocked for the rewards (shinies!), mostly New players. But as soon as they saw that it takes commitment, they left really quickly. Was the equipment thing an issue? No, it wasnt.

What about the people who made wvw legendary armor? What about the amount of gold they spent to have a QoL feature of free stat and runeswapping?

Your arguments dont hold, in wvw. It needs commitment, it is a different mode altogether, and rewards are way better now that they used to be.

 

[GwAddict.9746]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> What about the people who made wvw legendary armor? What about the amount of gold they spent to have a QoL feature of free stat and runeswapping?

> Your arguments dont hold, in wvw. It needs commitment, it is a different mode altogether, and rewards are way better now that they used to be.

>

 

This is a moot argument because you can get legendary armor from sPvP as well, so why do you think they made it obtainable from there when gear is equalized? Because they wanted to give other methods of acquisition and it's not like gear will lose their identity. They'll be required in all of PvE, which is played by the vast majority of players. Legendary armor will still remain useful in PvE.

 

Anet is particularly reworking WvW because they are attempting to balance out population issues using the alliance system (mentioned in the FAQ) but why not balance everyone statistically as well to promote more fairness? Equalized gear for everyone promotes competitiveness, so not sure why people are so against it when they will still be able to customize everything like they can right now with the added flexibility to change builds on the fly without the need to go into sPvP?

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > What about the people who made wvw legendary armor? What about the amount of gold they spent to have a QoL feature of free stat and runeswapping?

> > Your arguments dont hold, in wvw. It needs commitment, it is a different mode altogether, and rewards are way better now that they used to be.

> >

>

> This is a moot argument because you can get legendary armor from sPvP as well, so why do you think they made it obtainable from there when gear is equalized? Because they wanted to give other methods of acquisition and it's not like gear will lose their identity. They'll be required in all of PvE, which is played by the vast majority of players. Legendary armor will still remain useful in PvE.

>

> Anet is particularly reworking WvW because they are attempting to balance out population issues using the alliance system (mentioned in the FAQ) but why not balance everyone statistically as well to promote more fairness? Equalized gear for everyone promotes competitiveness, so not sure why people are so against it when they will still be able to customize everything like they can right now with the added flexibility to change builds on the fly without the need to go into sPvP?

>

 

No to players that solely WvW The Legendary Gear they crafted just for WvW would have no use and completely invalidate their time and effort for selfish/lazy reasons aka not having to put in any effort/time to get the same results as those that did put in time and effort, therefore disenfranchising a large portion of actual players.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > Either option doesn't work.

> > > >

> > > > Third option: give exotic level amulets to new players upon first entering WvW as starter gear. Allow ascended and other gear to people who craft/earn it.

> > > >

> > > > Oh wait... that is available from the Karma vendor as Karma armor for the base stats.

> > >

> > > I'm curious why won't either option work when it's simply a proposal to balance out everyone in WvW statistically?

> > >

> > > Exotic amulets of expansion aren't that easy to obtain by karma vendor and many builds uses the expansion stats.

> > >

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > Question for the OP: what about ascended gear makes large scale balance an issue?

> > > >

> > > > If your issue is with roaming or 10 or less, the mode was never meant to be balanced for that.

> > >

> > > It's not about ascended gear being the issue, it's about balancing everyone statistically for _fairer_ fights. Also the fact that there won't be much of an entry barrier for newer players (who dislikes PvE but is willing to play just for the RvR mode) to enter the WvW aside from skill/trait/spec knowledge. It'll encourage more people to try out WvW thereby helping the population. Changing builds on the fly also adds to insane QoL for WvW'ers just like it's in sPvP although on a much smaller scale.

> > >

> > > Also making roaming more balanced as a result of that. If it was never meant to be balanced for something then why try to balance stuff at all? Was population meant to be balanced or was it ever balanced in 6 years? No because people moved freely and the population cap was too high which allowed bandwagons to happen (BG, SFR) but that isn't stopping Anet from attempting it through alliance system although it's a much tougher task.

> > >

> >

> > Statistically, at the level of more than ten, and progressively higher numbers, the difference in stats for ascended and ascended becomes a moot point.

> >

> > Even if you assume one server having a 25% usage rate of ascended vs a server with a 50% usage rate, the difference becomes less than 2-3% overall., IF that.

> >

> > Skill of the group overreaches that easily.

> >

> > As to balancing for 1-10 people groups, that is done more in sPvP, but insignificant in larger groups which is what WvW is designed around.

> >

> > If we are to really focus on that level of 'micro balancing' you need to remove WvW ranks and the whole WvW trait lines, as having those advantages on siege, attacks on guards, and ability to carry supply become even more important.

> >

> > Too much about WvW would change.

> >

> > Maybe put a post on sPvP asking for 10v10 maps that have points to fight over.

>

> Even a small percentage is an increase but taking ascended vs exotic into account, with full 18 stat infusions (+90 in total) that's a pretty big increase which can be slotted but can't be in exotics. I'm all for wiping even this much of difference to promote fairer play.

 

That +90 is for one person. Again, keep the numbers in mind as WvW shouldn't be balanced for 1v1. Or even 5v5

>

 

Please keep the percentages equal. In large groups, you don't have one side with full ascended and one side with full exotic. The statistical advantage drops quickly the larger the group.

> I'm fully aware that skills triumphs in an exotic vs ascended fight but then in a scenario of equally skilled players, it'll be the gear (atleast 12% increase with full infusions) that'll decide the fight and that is what shouldn't happen IMO. sPvP is more competitive because of a level playing field, why not try to apply the same to WvW? I do agree that the amulet system will be awful for WvW hence why this proposal would retain all customizable options just like you can currently.

>

 

Agreed. Which is why this is a bad idea

> 10v10 isn't same as 50v50....

 

 

[GwAddict.9746]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > Either option doesn't work.

> > > > >

> > > > > Third option: give exotic level amulets to new players upon first entering WvW as starter gear. Allow ascended and other gear to people who craft/earn it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh wait... that is available from the Karma vendor as Karma armor for the base stats.

> > > >

> > > > I'm curious why won't either option work when it's simply a proposal to balance out everyone in WvW statistically?

> > > >

> > > > Exotic amulets of expansion aren't that easy to obtain by karma vendor and many builds uses the expansion stats.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > Question for the OP: what about ascended gear makes large scale balance an issue?

> > > > >

> > > > > If your issue is with roaming or 10 or less, the mode was never meant to be balanced for that.

> > > >

> > > > It's not about ascended gear being the issue, it's about balancing everyone statistically for _fairer_ fights. Also the fact that there won't be much of an entry barrier for newer players (who dislikes PvE but is willing to play just for the RvR mode) to enter the WvW aside from skill/trait/spec knowledge. It'll encourage more people to try out WvW thereby helping the population. Changing builds on the fly also adds to insane QoL for WvW'ers just like it's in sPvP although on a much smaller scale.

> > > >

> > > > Also making roaming more balanced as a result of that. If it was never meant to be balanced for something then why try to balance stuff at all? Was population meant to be balanced or was it ever balanced in 6 years? No because people moved freely and the population cap was too high which allowed bandwagons to happen (BG, SFR) but that isn't stopping Anet from attempting it through alliance system although it's a much tougher task.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Statistically, at the level of more than ten, and progressively higher numbers, the difference in stats for ascended and ascended becomes a moot point.

> > >

> > > Even if you assume one server having a 25% usage rate of ascended vs a server with a 50% usage rate, the difference becomes less than 2-3% overall., IF that.

> > >

> > > Skill of the group overreaches that easily.

> > >

> > > As to balancing for 1-10 people groups, that is done more in sPvP, but insignificant in larger groups which is what WvW is designed around.

> > >

> > > If we are to really focus on that level of 'micro balancing' you need to remove WvW ranks and the whole WvW trait lines, as having those advantages on siege, attacks on guards, and ability to carry supply become even more important.

> > >

> > > Too much about WvW would change.

> > >

> > > Maybe put a post on sPvP asking for 10v10 maps that have points to fight over.

> >

> > Even a small percentage is an increase but taking ascended vs exotic into account, with full 18 stat infusions (+90 in total) that's a pretty big increase which can be slotted but can't be in exotics. I'm all for wiping even this much of difference to promote fairer play.

>

> That +90 is for one person. Again, keep the numbers in mind as WvW shouldn't be balanced for 1v1. Or even 5v5

> >

>

> Please keep the percentages equal. In large groups, you don't have one side with full ascended and one side with full exotic. The statistical advantage drops quickly the larger the group.

 

It should be balanced whenever it's possible. Statistical balance isn't the same as class/skill balance. There is an objective and clear method to balance a group of people statistically (i.e. gear stats) like Anet did with sPvP so it already exists but class balance is another topic which isn't the subject of this thread.

 

With this system any statistical advantage won't be there at all whether one side is fully exotic or fully ascended with infusions or mixed. It won't matter.

 

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

>

> Agreed. Which is why this is a bad idea

> > 10v10 isn't same as 50v50....

>

 

Anything that promotes imbalance statistically when a statistically balanced system exists is a bad idea.

 

 

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

I have always been in favor of making WvW more like PvP, however I have recently come to change my mind in favor of another solution.

That solution is as follows:

 

The thing that would make the most difference would be removing/revamping passive and OP traits.

* Traits that trigger at 50% or 25% and give you some extra bonus and some life saving junk - these don't belong in WvW. As WvW and PvP should be about skill and not some junk trait that saves your bacon without you doing anything.

* Also, only skills should give you speed increases and not traits. Put the traits and professions on a level playing field in regards to passive movement.

* Make traits only do one thing - not 2, 3 or 4.

* remove weapon based traits - if the weapon isn't preforming without the trait then adjust the weapon to be somewhere in between.

* anything that give you the player invulnerability should have a breakbar.

 

The biggest quality of life between Fractals and WvW would be to make a tab you can put your fractal agony resistance and wvw infusions. Instead of having it placed on the armor, weapons, trinkets and backpack.

 

I am working on legendary armor, but I have to choose between placing agony resistance on it or WvW infusions. Right now I only swap my trinkets and backpacks so I am limited in how high I can go in fractals, as I play more WvW.

 

Also, my thought on runes. Remove them from armor and create a tab for them. Also, parse them down to 3 runes vs 6 runes by revamping the minor, major and superior runes to only have 2 stats on each. thus this would make minor and major runes more valuable and usable at a higher level. Minor rune unlocks at level 20, major rune unlocks at level 40 and superior rune unlocks at level 60. So whatever minor rune you placed in your tab at level 20 would still be viable at level 80. There would no longer be a ramp up in stats as the runes go from minor to major to superior.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > > Either option doesn't work.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Third option: give exotic level amulets to new players upon first entering WvW as starter gear. Allow ascended and other gear to people who craft/earn it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh wait... that is available from the Karma vendor as Karma armor for the base stats.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm curious why won't either option work when it's simply a proposal to balance out everyone in WvW statistically?

> > > > >

> > > > > Exotic amulets of expansion aren't that easy to obtain by karma vendor and many builds uses the expansion stats.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > > Question for the OP: what about ascended gear makes large scale balance an issue?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If your issue is with roaming or 10 or less, the mode was never meant to be balanced for that.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not about ascended gear being the issue, it's about balancing everyone statistically for _fairer_ fights. Also the fact that there won't be much of an entry barrier for newer players (who dislikes PvE but is willing to play just for the RvR mode) to enter the WvW aside from skill/trait/spec knowledge. It'll encourage more people to try out WvW thereby helping the population. Changing builds on the fly also adds to insane QoL for WvW'ers just like it's in sPvP although on a much smaller scale.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also making roaming more balanced as a result of that. If it was never meant to be balanced for something then why try to balance stuff at all? Was population meant to be balanced or was it ever balanced in 6 years? No because people moved freely and the population cap was too high which allowed bandwagons to happen (BG, SFR) but that isn't stopping Anet from attempting it through alliance system although it's a much tougher task.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Statistically, at the level of more than ten, and progressively higher numbers, the difference in stats for ascended and ascended becomes a moot point.

> > > >

> > > > Even if you assume one server having a 25% usage rate of ascended vs a server with a 50% usage rate, the difference becomes less than 2-3% overall., IF that.

> > > >

> > > > Skill of the group overreaches that easily.

> > > >

> > > > As to balancing for 1-10 people groups, that is done more in sPvP, but insignificant in larger groups which is what WvW is designed around.

> > > >

> > > > If we are to really focus on that level of 'micro balancing' you need to remove WvW ranks and the whole WvW trait lines, as having those advantages on siege, attacks on guards, and ability to carry supply become even more important.

> > > >

> > > > Too much about WvW would change.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe put a post on sPvP asking for 10v10 maps that have points to fight over.

> > >

> > > Even a small percentage is an increase but taking ascended vs exotic into account, with full 18 stat infusions (+90 in total) that's a pretty big increase which can be slotted but can't be in exotics. I'm all for wiping even this much of difference to promote fairer play.

> >

> > That +90 is for one person. Again, keep the numbers in mind as WvW shouldn't be balanced for 1v1. Or even 5v5

> > >

> >

> > Please keep the percentages equal. In large groups, you don't have one side with full ascended and one side with full exotic. The statistical advantage drops quickly the larger the group.

>

> It should be balanced whenever it's possible. Statistical balance isn't the same as class/skill balance. There is an objective and clear method to balance a group of people statistically (i.e. gear stats) like Anet did with sPvP so it already exists but class balance is another topic which isn't the subject of this thread.

>

> With this system any statistical advantage won't be there at all whether one side is fully exotic or fully ascended with infusions or mixed. It won't matter.

>

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> >

> > Agreed. Which is why this is a bad idea

> > > 10v10 isn't same as 50v50....

> >

>

> Anything that promotes imbalance statistically when a statistically balanced system exists is a bad idea.

>

>

 

WvW isn’t intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> WvW is intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair.

 

Surely, the raw "fairness" of sPvp is impossible on game mode where oposite teams had so much variants like players numbers. Such variants like ambient, thats make this a strategy game-mode not a raw spvp mode. Also make builds plain like sPvp via amulet system can lead to boredom.

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > WvW is intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair.

>

> Surely, the raw "fairness" of sPvp is impossible on game mode where oposite teams had so much variants like players numbers. Such variants like ambient, thats make this a strategy game-mode not a raw spvp mode.

 

That is was supposed to be isn’t but phone didn’t like it.

[SloRules.3560]

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > So for option 1, players new to GW2 and its combat/mechanics system can bypass the content thats there to teach them and jump right in expecting to contribute to your team? Theyre more likely to get flamed for being a free rally.

> > >

> > > It'll be the same system as in sPvP just having more slots. It's not like the players new to gw2 now can't already jump to WvW at lower level than 80 currently. Basically this will make them autogeared the moment you step into WvW.

> >

> > Fair point, so its already accessible to players currently. But one group just worked harder to gear their PC than the other. And with this option it renders that obsolete.

> >

> >

>

> Gear will still matter in PvE as stated in the original post, so not obsolete. This is just a discussion anyway. Maybe it could be changed to you must be lvl 80 to enter WvW for all players.

>

>

>

>

> > @"SloRules.3560" said:

> > Is this realistic?

> >

> > No, end of discussion.

>

> This system already exists in sPvP already which unlocks at lvl 5 I believe for all players.

9

Yeah, but you disregard that this has been put fourth many times (yes the multi piece system) and it didn't even have much of a support in the playerbase.

 

Not to mention that they pretty recently added ascended and legendary armor into WvW. How do you think people that have put thousands of hours into that will react?

 

Also impact on whole economy part of the game, where WvW is a net sink for gold and a demand for every non zerker/viper stat set.

 

Where are trailblazer and dire used?

[Swagger.1459]

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> Hi all,

>

> To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this:

>

> **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot)

>

> Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP.

>

> Pros:

> 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all.

> 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire.

> 3) A proper Badges of honour sink

>

> **2nd option:**

>

> Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP.

>

> Pros:

> 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have.

> 2) A proper badges of honour sink

>

> Cons:

> 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked.

> 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult.

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

>

> To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues).

>

> P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized.

>

> Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this.

 

That’s not going to happen. The mode has allowed all game gear and foods to be used since launch. Your “but you can still use your gear in pve” won’t fly with most players who built up (spent time and gold and resources) their ascended gear, and the devs aren’t going to intentionally create massive backlash. The devs are not changing anything over a 10%ish difference between exotics and ascended.

 

Get out there and work on your gear, and don’t expect the devs to change the entire gearing system because you don’t feel like earning gear.

 

Furthermore, “balance” has very little to do with gear. It has to do with profession designs and skills. Spvp exists for your style so take advantage of it.

[GwAddict.9746]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > WvW is intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair.

>

> Surely, the raw "fairness" of sPvp is impossible on game mode where oposite teams had so much variants like players numbers. Such variants like ambient, thats make this a strategy game-mode not a raw spvp mode. Also make builds plain like sPvp **via amulet system can lead to boredom.**

>

 

It was specifically mentioned that the system won't use the non-customizable amulet system.

 

> @"SloRules.3560" said:

> > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > > So for option 1, players new to GW2 and its combat/mechanics system can bypass the content thats there to teach them and jump right in expecting to contribute to your team? Theyre more likely to get flamed for being a free rally.

> > > >

> > > > It'll be the same system as in sPvP just having more slots. It's not like the players new to gw2 now can't already jump to WvW at lower level than 80 currently. Basically this will make them autogeared the moment you step into WvW.

> > >

> > > Fair point, so its already accessible to players currently. But one group just worked harder to gear their PC than the other. And with this option it renders that obsolete.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Gear will still matter in PvE as stated in the original post, so not obsolete. This is just a discussion anyway. Maybe it could be changed to you must be lvl 80 to enter WvW for all players.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > @"SloRules.3560" said:

> > > Is this realistic?

> > >

> > > No, end of discussion.

> >

> > This system already exists in sPvP already which unlocks at lvl 5 I believe for all players.

> 9

> Yeah, but you disregard that this has been put fourth many times (yes the multi piece system) and it didn't even have much of a support in the playerbase.

>

> Not to mention that they pretty recently added ascended and legendary armor into WvW. How do you think people that have put thousands of hours into that will react?

>

> Also impact on whole economy part of the game, where WvW is a net sink for gold and a demand for every non zerker/viper stat set.

>

> Where are trailblazer and dire used?

 

Care to link me to one of those threads where this system had already been suggested? Yes, I searched but couldn't find any similar thread. Thanks

 

They added ascended armor at the same time to sPvP as well where gear doesn't matter. All those people will still have those ascended gear ready to be used in PvE incase they need instead of crafting another one.

 

If you want to list stat combos that aren't used much in PvE, then there are a lot more currently that are not trailblazer/dire. They will remain niche stat combos like the vast majority of stat combos in PvE.

 

 

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > Hi all,

> >

> > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this:

> >

> > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot)

> >

> > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP.

> >

> > Pros:

> > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all.

> > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire.

> > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink

> >

> > **2nd option:**

> >

> > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP.

> >

> > Pros:

> > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have.

> > 2) A proper badges of honour sink

> >

> > Cons:

> > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked.

> > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult.

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------

> >

> > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues).

> >

> > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized.

> >

> > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this.

>

> That’s not going to happen. The mode has allowed all game gear and foods to be used since launch. Your “but you can still use your gear in pve” won’t fly with most players who built up (spent time and gold and resources) their ascended gear, and the devs aren’t going to intentionally create massive backlash. The devs are not changing anything over a 10%ish difference between exotics and ascended.

>

> Get out there and work on your gear, and don’t expect the devs to change the entire gearing system because you don’t feel like earning gear.

>

> Furthermore, “balance” has very little to do with gear. It has to do with profession designs and skills. Spvp exists for your style so take advantage of it.

 

That's the only negative (and pretty minor) as stated by another person here but that'll be countered by any future stat combos that'll be meta/viable in WvW usable immediately by WvW'ers without having to farm for it. It'll create as much backlash as the announcement of restructure did i.e. negligible. If this suggestion had something to do with making the game more unbalanced than is already is I could see your point but it's not.

 

 

[Sovereign.1093]

so excited if this gets a go.

[Sovereign.1093]

another option is what wow did, gear is proportioned. so it does not matter. just your food runes sigils traits n skills.

 

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> Hi all,

>

> To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this:

>

> **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot)

>

> Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP.

>

> Pros:

> 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all.

> 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire.

> 3) A proper Badges of honour sink

>

> **2nd option:**

>

> Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP.

>

> Pros:

> 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have.

> 2) A proper badges of honour sink

>

> Cons:

> 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked.

> 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult.

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

>

> To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues).

>

> P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized.

>

> Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this.

 

then i got all my legendary gear for naught, i literally play only wvw (except exploration mastery) its easy enought to get gear only playing wvw, atleast now, it wasnt like that before (some runes are still pve exclusive, monk for example, adjust those and we are fine)

its still a longtime motivation to get the gear you want. i pump all almost all my income into gear and i wouldnt want it otherwise

[Gemnaid.4219]

Wvw is about coverage, not gear.

[Victory.2879]

I always have a giggle when someone posts a post like the OP's. Why? Because it totally misses the point that wvw gets barely any attention from the devs at all, never mind a complete revamp of the entire gear system.

 

Seen a new map lately?

Alliances - sometime before 2020 maybe?

Bugs still there, yep.

 

There is no point debating the Op's post unless it's just something to pass the time.

 

As for the actual suggestions- no thanks. I like the current gear system in wvw just fine- it's the balance and skills that need fixing.

[LaGranse.8652]

I think there is a misconception that WvW is a competative game-mode. The rewards for winning are about the same as for losing. People do nog get very upset if they lose a skirmish or match. WvW is a havok game-mode and most people play it for fun, killing enemies and such. Not for winning the match.