Swagger.1459 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > WvW is intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair. > > > > Surely, the raw "fairness" of sPvp is impossible on game mode where oposite teams had so much variants like players numbers. Such variants like ambient, thats make this a strategy game-mode not a raw spvp mode. Also make builds plain like sPvp **via amulet system can lead to boredom.** > > > > It was specifically mentioned that the system won't use the non-customizable amulet system. > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > So for option 1, players new to GW2 and its combat/mechanics system can bypass the content thats there to teach them and jump right in expecting to contribute to your team? Theyre more likely to get flamed for being a free rally. > > > > > > > > > > It'll be the same system as in sPvP just having more slots. It's not like the players new to gw2 now can't already jump to WvW at lower level than 80 currently. Basically this will make them autogeared the moment you step into WvW. > > > > > > > > Fair point, so its already accessible to players currently. But one group just worked harder to gear their PC than the other. And with this option it renders that obsolete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gear will still matter in PvE as stated in the original post, so not obsolete. This is just a discussion anyway. Maybe it could be changed to you must be lvl 80 to enter WvW for all players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > > Is this realistic? > > > > > > > > No, end of discussion. > > > > > > This system already exists in sPvP already which unlocks at lvl 5 I believe for all players. > > 9 > > Yeah, but you disregard that this has been put fourth many times (yes the multi piece system) and it didn't even have much of a support in the playerbase. > > > > Not to mention that they pretty recently added ascended and legendary armor into WvW. How do you think people that have put thousands of hours into that will react? > > > > Also impact on whole economy part of the game, where WvW is a net sink for gold and a demand for every non zerker/viper stat set. > > > > Where are trailblazer and dire used? > > Care to link me to one of those threads where this system had already been suggested? Yes, I searched but couldn't find any similar thread. Thanks > > They added ascended armor at the same time to sPvP as well where gear doesn't matter. All those people will still have those ascended gear ready to be used in PvE incase they need instead of crafting another one. > > If you want to list stat combos that aren't used much in PvE, then there are a lot more currently that are not trailblazer/dire. They will remain niche stat combos like the vast majority of stat combos in PvE. > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this: > > > > > > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot) > > > > > > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > Pros: > > > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all. > > > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire. > > > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink > > > > > > **2nd option:** > > > > > > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > Pros: > > > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have. > > > 2) A proper badges of honour sink > > > > > > Cons: > > > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked. > > > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues). > > > > > > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized. > > > > > > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this. > > > > That’s not going to happen. The mode has allowed all game gear and foods to be used since launch. Your “but you can still use your gear in pve” won’t fly with most players who built up (spent time and gold and resources) their ascended gear, and the devs aren’t going to intentionally create massive backlash. The devs are not changing anything over a 10%ish difference between exotics and ascended. > > > > Get out there and work on your gear, and don’t expect the devs to change the entire gearing system because you don’t feel like earning gear. > > > > Furthermore, “balance” has very little to do with gear. It has to do with profession designs and skills. Spvp exists for your style so take advantage of it. > > That's the only negative (and pretty minor) as stated by another person here but that'll be countered by any future stat combos that'll be meta/viable in WvW usable immediately by WvW'ers without having to farm for it. It'll create as much backlash as the announcement of restructure did i.e. negligible. If this suggestion had something to do with making the game more unbalanced than is already is I could see your point but it's not. > > There wasn’t going to be backlash on the level of changing the entire gear system because population balance was the 4th most requested feature from players.... Restructuring is the new method the get player numbers as even as possible. https://massivelyop.com/2016/03/16/guild-wars-2s-mike-obrien-promises-improvements-for-wvw-play/ The devs have a brain on their shoulders and know such a gear system change would cause a lot of unwanted negativity... and all over a 10%ish gear disparity between easy to get exotics and easy to get ascended. Every couple months a player can have a full set of ascended gear, that means 6 full sets of ascended gear each year... Your wvw gear change idea is just as poorly thought out as your thread that calls for the removal of buying gems to exchange for gold, and gold to gems... Edit- and here is a handy chart showing the differences between exotic and ascended gear... Hardly what you claim to be “pay to win”, or so dramatically unfair between stats that the entire wvw gear system needs to change. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Intricity/Exotic_vs_Ascended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 It all makes perfect sense why this thread was created *certian people* have approx 6 months of playing Gw2 and don’t want to put in the iota of time/effort that the WvW population has put in, agin it’s crystal clear why this suggestion was ever made. And this suggestion fully invalidated players that actually put effort in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwAddict.9746 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > another option is what wow did, gear is proportioned. so it does not matter. just your food runes sigils traits n skills. > Not a bad idea either. Basically it's the same as equalized gear. > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > Hi all, > > > > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this: > > > > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot) > > > > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > Pros: > > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all. > > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire. > > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink > > > > **2nd option:** > > > > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > Pros: > > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have. > > 2) A proper badges of honour sink > > > > Cons: > > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked. > > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues). > > > > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized. > > > > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this. > > then i got all my legendary gear for naught, i literally play only wvw (except exploration mastery) its easy enought to get gear only playing wvw, atleast now, it wasnt like that before (some runes are still pve exclusive, monk for example, adjust those and we are fine) > its still a longtime motivation to get the gear you want. i pump all almost all my income into gear and i wouldnt want it otherwise Well, implementing this system won't invalidate any of your accomplishment though. You'll still be able to be on the level as you're now with the only difference being everyone else will also be on the same level. I hope Anet adds more progression system to WvW exclusively with the upcoming rework. > @"Victory.2879" said: > I always have a giggle when someone posts a post like the OP's. Why? Because it totally misses the point that wvw gets barely any attention from the devs at all, never mind a complete revamp of the entire gear system. > > Seen a new map lately? > Alliances - sometime before 2020 maybe? > Bugs still there, yep. > > There is no point debating the Op's post unless it's just something to pass the time. > > As for the actual suggestions- no thanks. I like the current gear system in wvw just fine- it's the balance and skills that need fixing. Yeah I know but that's why I'm posting in this subforum to try to get it heard. If you like the current gear system, it'll be exactly same (not the amulet system) that except everyone else will be on the same level with the added flexibility of changing build anyone you're out of combat. > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > WvW is intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair. > > > > > > Surely, the raw "fairness" of sPvp is impossible on game mode where oposite teams had so much variants like players numbers. Such variants like ambient, thats make this a strategy game-mode not a raw spvp mode. Also make builds plain like sPvp **via amulet system can lead to boredom.** > > > > > > > It was specifically mentioned that the system won't use the non-customizable amulet system. > > > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > So for option 1, players new to GW2 and its combat/mechanics system can bypass the content thats there to teach them and jump right in expecting to contribute to your team? Theyre more likely to get flamed for being a free rally. > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be the same system as in sPvP just having more slots. It's not like the players new to gw2 now can't already jump to WvW at lower level than 80 currently. Basically this will make them autogeared the moment you step into WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Fair point, so its already accessible to players currently. But one group just worked harder to gear their PC than the other. And with this option it renders that obsolete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gear will still matter in PvE as stated in the original post, so not obsolete. This is just a discussion anyway. Maybe it could be changed to you must be lvl 80 to enter WvW for all players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > > > Is this realistic? > > > > > > > > > > No, end of discussion. > > > > > > > > This system already exists in sPvP already which unlocks at lvl 5 I believe for all players. > > > 9 > > > Yeah, but you disregard that this has been put fourth many times (yes the multi piece system) and it didn't even have much of a support in the playerbase. > > > > > > Not to mention that they pretty recently added ascended and legendary armor into WvW. How do you think people that have put thousands of hours into that will react? > > > > > > Also impact on whole economy part of the game, where WvW is a net sink for gold and a demand for every non zerker/viper stat set. > > > > > > Where are trailblazer and dire used? > > > > Care to link me to one of those threads where this system had already been suggested? Yes, I searched but couldn't find any similar thread. Thanks > > > > They added ascended armor at the same time to sPvP as well where gear doesn't matter. All those people will still have those ascended gear ready to be used in PvE incase they need instead of crafting another one. > > > > If you want to list stat combos that aren't used much in PvE, then there are a lot more currently that are not trailblazer/dire. They will remain niche stat combos like the vast majority of stat combos in PvE. > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this: > > > > > > > > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot) > > > > > > > > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all. > > > > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire. > > > > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > **2nd option:** > > > > > > > > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have. > > > > 2) A proper badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > Cons: > > > > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked. > > > > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues). > > > > > > > > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized. > > > > > > > > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this. > > > > > > That’s not going to happen. The mode has allowed all game gear and foods to be used since launch. Your “but you can still use your gear in pve” won’t fly with most players who built up (spent time and gold and resources) their ascended gear, and the devs aren’t going to intentionally create massive backlash. The devs are not changing anything over a 10%ish difference between exotics and ascended. > > > > > > Get out there and work on your gear, and don’t expect the devs to change the entire gearing system because you don’t feel like earning gear. > > > > > > Furthermore, “balance” has very little to do with gear. It has to do with profession designs and skills. Spvp exists for your style so take advantage of it. > > > > That's the only negative (and pretty minor) as stated by another person here but that'll be countered by any future stat combos that'll be meta/viable in WvW usable immediately by WvW'ers without having to farm for it. It'll create as much backlash as the announcement of restructure did i.e. negligible. If this suggestion had something to do with making the game more unbalanced than is already is I could see your point but it's not. > > > > > > There wasn’t going to be backlash on the level of changing the entire gear system because population balance was the 4th most requested feature from players.... Restructuring is the new method the get player numbers as even as possible. > > https://massivelyop.com/2016/03/16/guild-wars-2s-mike-obrien-promises-improvements-for-wvw-play/ > > The devs have a brain on their shoulders and know such a gear system change would cause a lot of unwanted negativity... and all over a 10%ish gear disparity between easy to get exotics and easy to get ascended. Every couple months a player can have a full set of ascended gear, that means 6 full sets of ascended gear each year... > > Your wvw gear change idea is just as poorly thought out as your thread that calls for the removal of buying gems to exchange for gold, and gold to gems... > > Edit- and here is a handy chart showing the differences between exotic and ascended gear... Hardly what you claim to be “pay to win”, or so dramatically unfair between stats that the entire wvw gear system needs to change. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Intricity/Exotic_vs_Ascended And balance everyone stat-wise will be adding to that method encouraging new players to join in straight away in the mode they'll enjoy instead of spending time in PvE. Any amount of gap is still a gap and that is not an even playing field. Since they're already trying to balance population wise, this system will even be more attractive. Literally no one (except the ones who wants statistical advantage themselves over other players as seen in this thread) is gonna cause negativity over this. > @"LaGranse.8652" said: > I think there is a misconception that WvW is a competative game-mode. The rewards for winning are about the same as for losing. People do nog get very upset if they lose a skirmish or match. WvW is a havok game-mode and most people play it for fun, killing enemies and such. Not for winning the match. Any mode where players directly compete against other is competitive by nature by the very definition. All other top PvP games (even including 2 other top MMOs) have equalized PvP modes where statistically all the participants are equal and only skill matters deciding the outcome of the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > another option is what wow did, gear is proportioned. so it does not matter. just your food runes sigils traits n skills. > > > > Not a bad idea either. Basically it's the same as equalized gear. > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this: > > > > > > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot) > > > > > > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > Pros: > > > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all. > > > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire. > > > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink > > > > > > **2nd option:** > > > > > > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > Pros: > > > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have. > > > 2) A proper badges of honour sink > > > > > > Cons: > > > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked. > > > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues). > > > > > > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized. > > > > > > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this. > > > > then i got all my legendary gear for naught, i literally play only wvw (except exploration mastery) its easy enought to get gear only playing wvw, atleast now, it wasnt like that before (some runes are still pve exclusive, monk for example, adjust those and we are fine) > > its still a longtime motivation to get the gear you want. i pump all almost all my income into gear and i wouldnt want it otherwise > > Well, implementing this system won't invalidate any of your accomplishment though. You'll still be able to be on the level as you're now with the only difference being everyone else will also be on the same level. I hope Anet adds more progression system to WvW exclusively with the upcoming rework. > > > @"Victory.2879" said: > > I always have a giggle when someone posts a post like the OP's. Why? Because it totally misses the point that wvw gets barely any attention from the devs at all, never mind a complete revamp of the entire gear system. > > > > Seen a new map lately? > > Alliances - sometime before 2020 maybe? > > Bugs still there, yep. > > > > There is no point debating the Op's post unless it's just something to pass the time. > > > > As for the actual suggestions- no thanks. I like the current gear system in wvw just fine- it's the balance and skills that need fixing. > > Yeah I know but that's why I'm posting in this subforum to try to get it heard. > > If you like the current gear system, it'll be exactly same (not the amulet system) that except everyone else will be on the same level with the added flexibility of changing build anyone you're out of combat. > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > WvW is intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair. > > > > > > > > Surely, the raw "fairness" of sPvp is impossible on game mode where oposite teams had so much variants like players numbers. Such variants like ambient, thats make this a strategy game-mode not a raw spvp mode. Also make builds plain like sPvp **via amulet system can lead to boredom.** > > > > > > > > > > It was specifically mentioned that the system won't use the non-customizable amulet system. > > > > > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > > So for option 1, players new to GW2 and its combat/mechanics system can bypass the content thats there to teach them and jump right in expecting to contribute to your team? Theyre more likely to get flamed for being a free rally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be the same system as in sPvP just having more slots. It's not like the players new to gw2 now can't already jump to WvW at lower level than 80 currently. Basically this will make them autogeared the moment you step into WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair point, so its already accessible to players currently. But one group just worked harder to gear their PC than the other. And with this option it renders that obsolete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gear will still matter in PvE as stated in the original post, so not obsolete. This is just a discussion anyway. Maybe it could be changed to you must be lvl 80 to enter WvW for all players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > > > > Is this realistic? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, end of discussion. > > > > > > > > > > This system already exists in sPvP already which unlocks at lvl 5 I believe for all players. > > > > 9 > > > > Yeah, but you disregard that this has been put fourth many times (yes the multi piece system) and it didn't even have much of a support in the playerbase. > > > > > > > > Not to mention that they pretty recently added ascended and legendary armor into WvW. How do you think people that have put thousands of hours into that will react? > > > > > > > > Also impact on whole economy part of the game, where WvW is a net sink for gold and a demand for every non zerker/viper stat set. > > > > > > > > Where are trailblazer and dire used? > > > > > > Care to link me to one of those threads where this system had already been suggested? Yes, I searched but couldn't find any similar thread. Thanks > > > > > > They added ascended armor at the same time to sPvP as well where gear doesn't matter. All those people will still have those ascended gear ready to be used in PvE incase they need instead of crafting another one. > > > > > > If you want to list stat combos that aren't used much in PvE, then there are a lot more currently that are not trailblazer/dire. They will remain niche stat combos like the vast majority of stat combos in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this: > > > > > > > > > > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot) > > > > > > > > > > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all. > > > > > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire. > > > > > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > > > **2nd option:** > > > > > > > > > > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have. > > > > > 2) A proper badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > > > Cons: > > > > > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked. > > > > > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult. > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues). > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized. > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this. > > > > > > > > That’s not going to happen. The mode has allowed all game gear and foods to be used since launch. Your “but you can still use your gear in pve” won’t fly with most players who built up (spent time and gold and resources) their ascended gear, and the devs aren’t going to intentionally create massive backlash. The devs are not changing anything over a 10%ish difference between exotics and ascended. > > > > > > > > Get out there and work on your gear, and don’t expect the devs to change the entire gearing system because you don’t feel like earning gear. > > > > > > > > Furthermore, “balance” has very little to do with gear. It has to do with profession designs and skills. Spvp exists for your style so take advantage of it. > > > > > > That's the only negative (and pretty minor) as stated by another person here but that'll be countered by any future stat combos that'll be meta/viable in WvW usable immediately by WvW'ers without having to farm for it. It'll create as much backlash as the announcement of restructure did i.e. negligible. If this suggestion had something to do with making the game more unbalanced than is already is I could see your point but it's not. > > > > > > > > > > There wasn’t going to be backlash on the level of changing the entire gear system because population balance was the 4th most requested feature from players.... Restructuring is the new method the get player numbers as even as possible. > > > > https://massivelyop.com/2016/03/16/guild-wars-2s-mike-obrien-promises-improvements-for-wvw-play/ > > > > The devs have a brain on their shoulders and know such a gear system change would cause a lot of unwanted negativity... and all over a 10%ish gear disparity between easy to get exotics and easy to get ascended. Every couple months a player can have a full set of ascended gear, that means 6 full sets of ascended gear each year... > > > > Your wvw gear change idea is just as poorly thought out as your thread that calls for the removal of buying gems to exchange for gold, and gold to gems... > > > > Edit- and here is a handy chart showing the differences between exotic and ascended gear... Hardly what you claim to be “pay to win”, or so dramatically unfair between stats that the entire wvw gear system needs to change. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Intricity/Exotic_vs_Ascended > > And balance everyone stat-wise will be adding to that method encouraging new players to join in straight away in the mode they'll enjoy instead of spending time in PvE. > > Any amount of gap is still a gap and that is not an even playing field. Since they're already trying to balance population wise, this system will even be more attractive. Literally no one (except the ones who wants statistical advantage themselves over other players as seen in this thread) is gonna cause negativity over this. > > > @"LaGranse.8652" said: > > I think there is a misconception that WvW is a competative game-mode. The rewards for winning are about the same as for losing. People do nog get very upset if they lose a skirmish or match. WvW is a havok game-mode and most people play it for fun, killing enemies and such. Not for winning the match. > > Any mode where players directly compete against other is competitive by nature by the very definition. All other top PvP games (even including 2 other top MMOs) have equalized PvP modes where statistically all the participants are equal and only skill matters deciding the outcome of the fight. Again let’s put this as simple as possible, your suggestion invalidates everyone that put effort into making their WvW Armor/Weapons, there is no way around that, their gear was crafted solely for WvW not for other gamemodes, the suggestion is selfish and lazy to benefit only those that don’t put in any effort to the gamemode. And again as simple as possible, players don’t need to PvE to get Ascended gear or any stats, all Stats and Ascended gear are available from playing only WvW. WvW was never intended to be like sPvP, you want standardized gear in a PvP environment that’s what sPvP is for and it’s why WvW isn’t sWvW. Also Anet has stuck to their current design for 6 years because it’s their design intent and they know they will disenfranchise more players that actually put in time and effort to WvW than the hypothetical potential amount of newcomers that the suggestion says will join. It’s crystal clear why this suggestion is being made, and it’s not on the basis of “fairness”. 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Blocki.4931 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I think the biggest issue with this is that it will make legendary items even less useful than they are. I'm glad I have my legendary armor set that I can stat and rune swap all the time, but I don't need it in open world. I can run around naked in open world for all I care. Legendary armor is already fashion only at this point, if it became redundant in yet another mode I think that would ruin the desire to continue playing, since it takes away one of the big goals people set for themselves when plaiyng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: **3 stat gear** - Major stat caps at 1200 - Minor stat caps at 900 **4 stat gear** - Major stat caps at 1050 - Minor stat caps at 560 **7 stat gear (celestial)** - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. ## Benefits: - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future - We have upscale so the tech is already there On a side note I also think they should keep the base damage range between exotic and ascended weapons - having an ascended weapon in WvW should give you that edge and keep people crafting/farming for ascended gear. This would be the ONLY exception to the gear cap, and just dmg range not the attributes. This might not seem as much of a change, but as foods, utilites and traits often compound with eachother, plus the overall culling of min/max values, this would reign in some of the more unbalanced builds out there, and make the balancing team's job alot easier for upcoming patches. WvW would still remain the PvE sandbox where they can test out changes and build variety. This would still leave plenty of incentive to chase ascended gear (those infusions count alot more with lowered stats) and give advantages to those that actively play the game/mode. The only downside I can see is that it won't conform with PvE anymore, but with the recent splits it seems anet are finally willing to budge - and with the upcoming alliance system I do think it's time we unhitch the wagon for a more healthy gameplay experience, and hopefully a balanced and fun proving ground for new players in our beloved gamemode :) (Fast edit: This would allow players who have made legendary armor to keep their benefit over others, and wouldn't devalue any current gear or progression players already have) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player.9621 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 so much wrong if youre dying all the time its not because of the gear difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said: > > > another option is what wow did, gear is proportioned. so it does not matter. just your food runes sigils traits n skills. > > > > > > > Not a bad idea either. Basically it's the same as equalized gear. > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this: > > > > > > > > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot) > > > > > > > > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all. > > > > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire. > > > > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > **2nd option:** > > > > > > > > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have. > > > > 2) A proper badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > Cons: > > > > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked. > > > > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues). > > > > > > > > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized. > > > > > > > > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this. > > > > > > then i got all my legendary gear for naught, i literally play only wvw (except exploration mastery) its easy enought to get gear only playing wvw, atleast now, it wasnt like that before (some runes are still pve exclusive, monk for example, adjust those and we are fine) > > > its still a longtime motivation to get the gear you want. i pump all almost all my income into gear and i wouldnt want it otherwise > > > > Well, implementing this system won't invalidate any of your accomplishment though. You'll still be able to be on the level as you're now with the only difference being everyone else will also be on the same level. I hope Anet adds more progression system to WvW exclusively with the upcoming rework. > > > > > @"Victory.2879" said: > > > I always have a giggle when someone posts a post like the OP's. Why? Because it totally misses the point that wvw gets barely any attention from the devs at all, never mind a complete revamp of the entire gear system. > > > > > > Seen a new map lately? > > > Alliances - sometime before 2020 maybe? > > > Bugs still there, yep. > > > > > > There is no point debating the Op's post unless it's just something to pass the time. > > > > > > As for the actual suggestions- no thanks. I like the current gear system in wvw just fine- it's the balance and skills that need fixing. > > > > Yeah I know but that's why I'm posting in this subforum to try to get it heard. > > > > If you like the current gear system, it'll be exactly same (not the amulet system) that except everyone else will be on the same level with the added flexibility of changing build anyone you're out of combat. > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > WvW is intended or designed to be balanced based on stats, hey have a Gamemode for that it’s called sPvP, WvW isn’t called sWvW it’s just WvW..... it’s blatantly obvious why this is a suggestion and it’s not based on the premise of fair/balanced since the Gamemode will never be balanced or fair. > > > > > > > > > > Surely, the raw "fairness" of sPvp is impossible on game mode where oposite teams had so much variants like players numbers. Such variants like ambient, thats make this a strategy game-mode not a raw spvp mode. Also make builds plain like sPvp **via amulet system can lead to boredom.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was specifically mentioned that the system won't use the non-customizable amulet system. > > > > > > > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > > > > > > > > So for option 1, players new to GW2 and its combat/mechanics system can bypass the content thats there to teach them and jump right in expecting to contribute to your team? Theyre more likely to get flamed for being a free rally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be the same system as in sPvP just having more slots. It's not like the players new to gw2 now can't already jump to WvW at lower level than 80 currently. Basically this will make them autogeared the moment you step into WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair point, so its already accessible to players currently. But one group just worked harder to gear their PC than the other. And with this option it renders that obsolete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gear will still matter in PvE as stated in the original post, so not obsolete. This is just a discussion anyway. Maybe it could be changed to you must be lvl 80 to enter WvW for all players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"SloRules.3560" said: > > > > > > > Is this realistic? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, end of discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > This system already exists in sPvP already which unlocks at lvl 5 I believe for all players. > > > > > 9 > > > > > Yeah, but you disregard that this has been put fourth many times (yes the multi piece system) and it didn't even have much of a support in the playerbase. > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention that they pretty recently added ascended and legendary armor into WvW. How do you think people that have put thousands of hours into that will react? > > > > > > > > > > Also impact on whole economy part of the game, where WvW is a net sink for gold and a demand for every non zerker/viper stat set. > > > > > > > > > > Where are trailblazer and dire used? > > > > > > > > Care to link me to one of those threads where this system had already been suggested? Yes, I searched but couldn't find any similar thread. Thanks > > > > > > > > They added ascended armor at the same time to sPvP as well where gear doesn't matter. All those people will still have those ascended gear ready to be used in PvE incase they need instead of crafting another one. > > > > > > > > If you want to list stat combos that aren't used much in PvE, then there are a lot more currently that are not trailblazer/dire. They will remain niche stat combos like the vast majority of stat combos in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > To make more WvW more accessible to all players (not just geared and max level) with full traits unlocked, I have two options suggestions for this: > > > > > > > > > > > > **1st option:** (Note: I prefer this by a long shot) > > > > > > > > > > > > Make WvW completely **normalized** for all players just like sPvP stat-wise **BUT not the amulet system**. The WvW gear panel will have all 6 armor slots, 2 weapon slots and 6 trinket slots (just like hero panel) except you can change stats, runes, sigils, etc for free anytime you're out of combat and in WvW. Players will automatically be boosted to 80 with all specializations and elite specs unlocked (as long as you have the expansions just like sPvP). Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > > > 1) Equal battle field statistically and WvW'ers won't have to PvE at all. > > > > > > 2) Easier to balance via removal of some condi-defense heavy stat combos like trailblazer/dire. > > > > > > 3) A proper Badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > > > > > **2nd option:** > > > > > > > > > > > > Make equipped gear scale to exotic level (like how sPvP scales to lvl 78 exotic power level) and if ascended armor have infusions it won't count those stats while in WvW. So unlike first suggestion, you have to go to pve to change stats of your gear and traits/specs won't be unlocked by default while in WvW and you have to do the manually by spending heroics of testimony or HP trains. Food will be allowed as per usual which will consume badges of honour as its currency (increase the cost to make it a proper sink and make BiS food available to be used in WvW only). The appearance of our character will use the PvE gear like how it's in sPvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pros: > > > > > > 1) A bit less equal battle field than 1st option statistically but still better than what we have. > > > > > > 2) A proper badges of honour sink > > > > > > > > > > > > Cons: > > > > > > 1) WvW'ers still have to level to 80 and get all specs unlocked. > > > > > > 2) Stats like trailblazer/dire will continue to plague WvW and balance becomes much more difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > To conclude, this will make the competitive aspect of GW2 less dependent on gear and will allow more people to directly come to WvW and populate it further with the upcoming alliance system. People who likes to sPvP already have this option and can directly jump straight away after hitting lvl 5 so it'll be great if the same is extended to WvW/EoTM mode as well. Even playing field statistically = Better for everyone (minus the lag, balance issues). > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Gear will absolutely count in PvE and all its areas, this suggestion is ONLY while in WvW and EoTM. EoTM is planned to host GvGs, so it'll be great for them to be statistically equalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts? It'll be great to have someone in WvW team chime in on this. > > > > > > > > > > That’s not going to happen. The mode has allowed all game gear and foods to be used since launch. Your “but you can still use your gear in pve” won’t fly with most players who built up (spent time and gold and resources) their ascended gear, and the devs aren’t going to intentionally create massive backlash. The devs are not changing anything over a 10%ish difference between exotics and ascended. > > > > > > > > > > Get out there and work on your gear, and don’t expect the devs to change the entire gearing system because you don’t feel like earning gear. > > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, “balance” has very little to do with gear. It has to do with profession designs and skills. Spvp exists for your style so take advantage of it. > > > > > > > > That's the only negative (and pretty minor) as stated by another person here but that'll be countered by any future stat combos that'll be meta/viable in WvW usable immediately by WvW'ers without having to farm for it. It'll create as much backlash as the announcement of restructure did i.e. negligible. If this suggestion had something to do with making the game more unbalanced than is already is I could see your point but it's not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There wasn’t going to be backlash on the level of changing the entire gear system because population balance was the 4th most requested feature from players.... Restructuring is the new method the get player numbers as even as possible. > > > > > > https://massivelyop.com/2016/03/16/guild-wars-2s-mike-obrien-promises-improvements-for-wvw-play/ > > > > > > The devs have a brain on their shoulders and know such a gear system change would cause a lot of unwanted negativity... and all over a 10%ish gear disparity between easy to get exotics and easy to get ascended. Every couple months a player can have a full set of ascended gear, that means 6 full sets of ascended gear each year... > > > > > > Your wvw gear change idea is just as poorly thought out as your thread that calls for the removal of buying gems to exchange for gold, and gold to gems... > > > > > > Edit- and here is a handy chart showing the differences between exotic and ascended gear... Hardly what you claim to be “pay to win”, or so dramatically unfair between stats that the entire wvw gear system needs to change. > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Intricity/Exotic_vs_Ascended > > > > And balance everyone stat-wise will be adding to that method encouraging new players to join in straight away in the mode they'll enjoy instead of spending time in PvE. > > > > Any amount of gap is still a gap and that is not an even playing field. Since they're already trying to balance population wise, this system will even be more attractive. Literally no one (except the ones who wants statistical advantage themselves over other players as seen in this thread) is gonna cause negativity over this. > > > > > @"LaGranse.8652" said: > > > I think there is a misconception that WvW is a competative game-mode. The rewards for winning are about the same as for losing. People do nog get very upset if they lose a skirmish or match. WvW is a havok game-mode and most people play it for fun, killing enemies and such. Not for winning the match. > > > > Any mode where players directly compete against other is competitive by nature by the very definition. All other top PvP games (even including 2 other top MMOs) have equalized PvP modes where statistically all the participants are equal and only skill matters deciding the outcome of the fight. > > Again let’s put this as simple as possible, your suggestion invalidates everyone that put effort into making their WvW Armor/Weapons, there is no way around that, their gear was crafted solely for WvW not for other gamemodes, the suggestion is selfish and lazy to benefit only those that don’t put in any effort to the gamemode. > > And again as simple as possible, players don’t need to PvE to get Ascended gear or any stats, all Stats and Ascended gear are available from playing only WvW. > > WvW was never intended to be like sPvP, you want standardized gear in a PvP environment that’s what sPvP is for and it’s why WvW isn’t sWvW. Also Anet has stuck to their current design for 6 years because it’s their design intent and they know they will disenfranchise more players that actually put in time and effort to WvW than the hypothetical potential amount of newcomers that the suggestion says will join. > > It’s crystal clear why this suggestion is being made, and it’s not on the basis of “fairness”. > > We may not agree in a bunch of areas, but well put... and I’m feeling your assement of the op is correct. @"GwAddict.9746" You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehologist.5841 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I would rather have a larger pvp map with more teams and objectives similar to wvw. I gear up exclusively using wvw, killing the reward system would destroy the mode for me. It is my get some equipment and try various builds mode. The fact I can use that equipment in fractals and high level pve content is just bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwAddict.9746 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"rng.1024" said: > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > **3 stat gear** > - Major stat caps at 1200 > - Minor stat caps at 900 > **4 stat gear** > - Major stat caps at 1050 > - Minor stat caps at 560 > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > ## Benefits: > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > - We have upscale so the tech is already there This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > @"rng.1024" said: > This might not seem as much of a change, but as foods, utilites and traits often compound with eachother, plus the overall culling of min/max values, this would reign in some of the more unbalanced builds out there, and make the balancing team's job alot easier for upcoming patches. WvW would still remain the PvE sandbox where they can test out changes and build variety. This would still leave plenty of incentive to chase ascended gear (those infusions count alot more with lowered stats) and give advantages to those that actively play the game/mode. The only downside I can see is that it won't conform with PvE anymore, but with the recent splits it seems anet are finally willing to budge - and with the upcoming alliance system I do think it's time we unhitch the wagon for a more healthy gameplay experience, and hopefully a balanced and fun proving ground for new players in our beloved gamemode :) > > (Fast edit: This would allow players who have made legendary armor to keep their benefit over others, and wouldn't devalue any current gear or progression players already have) Yes, that's why I proposed WvW only food (buyable with Badges of honour as it's currency which will be a great sink) with balanced buffs and duration which could be decided later. sPvP is more balanced/less power-creepy because these buffs don't exist over there i.e. utility and food. Let PvE food and util stay as it is as this won't affect PvE in the slightest. > @"Swagger.1459" said: > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. > > Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. You seem to lack a lot of understanding about making a PvP mode balanced by promoting gear differences. Those "nominal stat difference" that exist still gives one edge over the other. If we want more competitiveness (PvP modes are supposed to be competitive by default, if not then there's a major flaw by design), these has to be eliminated. You and the other person are refusing to address the issue and keep this as a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. Also stop making excuses on promoting stat disparity by saying stuffs like "exotics can function just as well". Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over someone in full exotic. By not wanting equal footing suggests that you derive pleasure in killing undergeared players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Your suggestions do nothing to balance it outside of small encounters. Which is sPvP. WvW may have those encounters, but again, it's never been intended to be balanced that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > **3 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > **4 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > ## Benefits: > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > This might not seem as much of a change, but as foods, utilites and traits often compound with eachother, plus the overall culling of min/max values, this would reign in some of the more unbalanced builds out there, and make the balancing team's job alot easier for upcoming patches. WvW would still remain the PvE sandbox where they can test out changes and build variety. This would still leave plenty of incentive to chase ascended gear (those infusions count alot more with lowered stats) and give advantages to those that actively play the game/mode. The only downside I can see is that it won't conform with PvE anymore, but with the recent splits it seems anet are finally willing to budge - and with the upcoming alliance system I do think it's time we unhitch the wagon for a more healthy gameplay experience, and hopefully a balanced and fun proving ground for new players in our beloved gamemode :) > > > > (Fast edit: This would allow players who have made legendary armor to keep their benefit over others, and wouldn't devalue any current gear or progression players already have) > > Yes, that's why I proposed WvW only food (buyable with Badges of honour as it's currency which will be a great sink) with balanced buffs and duration which could be decided later. sPvP is more balanced/less power-creepy because these buffs don't exist over there i.e. utility and food. Let PvE food and util stay as it is as this won't affect PvE in the slightest. > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. > > > > Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about making a PvP mode balanced by promoting gear differences. Those "nominal stat difference" that exist still gives one edge over the other. If we want more competitiveness (PvP modes are supposed to be competitive by default, if not then there's a major flaw by design), these has to be eliminated. You and the other person are refusing to address the issue and keep this as a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. > > Also stop making excuses on promoting stat disparity by saying stuffs like "exotics can function just as well". Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over someone in full exotic. By not wanting equal footing suggests that you derive pleasure in killing undergeared players. WvW isn’t a Competive PvP Gamemode individual players aren’t competing for anything, and it’s never been intended to been structured around standardized gear, that is sPvP that is structured around standardized equipment. And again you are failing to address the fact that players actually put time and effort into the Gamemode when acquiring their gear which the suggestion completely invalidated on the basis of *certain people* not putting in time/effort to get the same results as those that did put in time/effort. And the suggestion would disenfranchise every player that actually put in the iota of effort to get what they have and there would be large repercussions to that and the negative impact would far outweigh the “positive” impact. It’s crystal clear when *certain people* want something for selfish/lazy reasons, especially when *certain people* only have approx 6 month of even playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. > > > > Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about making a PvP mode balanced by promoting gear differences. Those "nominal stat difference" that exist still gives one edge over the other. If we want more competitiveness (PvP modes are supposed to be competitive by default, if not then there's a major flaw by design), these has to be eliminated. You and the other person are refusing to address the issue and keep this as a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. > > Also stop making excuses on promoting stat disparity by saying stuffs like "exotics can function just as well". Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over someone in full exotic. By not wanting equal footing suggests that you derive pleasure in killing undergeared players. for WvW to be competitive people would actually have to start playing the mode to win it. like winning skirmishes and the matches, yet that is currently pointless because of coverage disparities wich are natural in a mode with a match duration of several days. if through some magic coverage gets balanced and people start to play to win the match and winning get rewarded etc. then maybe we could discuss gear disparities, they are currently just so unimportant as everyone seems to play his own game when in WvW. for some winning fights on different scales matter, for others disrupting supply routes, defending, ktrain etc. if the mode was played as a competitive mode, then you could define roles in it and balance the classes around the roles they can play, then yeah maybe you need aswell everyone lvl 80 with equal statpool. but right now it just doesnt matter enough to put it in the game and it will likely make more people quit then join the mode, as people dont like change especially if their progress made gets invalid with a patch. and while the stat difference is great indeed, very few fights are decided by stats, i feel a difference when i play on my alt acc with only exotics but i dont have a differnt average result of the fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 tl;dr Even ignoring the economic impact, ANet isn't going to devote massive amounts of resources to invent a new system unless it addresses fundamental issues in the game mode. And standardizing _gear_ simply isn't going to affect people as much as implied in the opening post. **** The biggest reason this won't happen is it has major economic repercussions. The existence of multiple build variants, the soulbinding of exotics... things like that are major sinks for all the mats we get. It also represents some of the major existing rewards (e.g. glorious armor track). The OP's proposal removes all the from the game, without replacing the sinks or the rewards. Without a more compelling reason, I find it hard to imagine ANet considering the idea at all. Even if we ignore the economics, it's still a lot of effort to address something that isn't a fundamental issue. People do not win or lose fights _primarily_ because of their gear. If all else is equal, of course a condi class in soldier's exotics is going to lose to a power build in ascended zerk or marauder. But "all else" is almost never equal in WvW. Some 80% of players are either much more skilled or much less skilled than most of us: if you encounter someone not at your level, then that will determine the outcome regardless of gear. For those at your level, then terrain, positioning, local NPCs, nearby allies/foes, zergs... all of that has a bigger effect than gear. At best, the difference in gear can allow you to survive one, maybe three extra hits. And that's plenty for a skilled player to turn the tide of battle. It's not nearly enough for a lesser player (including myself) to change the outcome. And that's without even talking about the choice of builds (that's a whole new conversation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > **3 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > **4 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > ## Benefits: > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > This might not seem as much of a change, but as foods, utilites and traits often compound with eachother, plus the overall culling of min/max values, this would reign in some of the more unbalanced builds out there, and make the balancing team's job alot easier for upcoming patches. WvW would still remain the PvE sandbox where they can test out changes and build variety. This would still leave plenty of incentive to chase ascended gear (those infusions count alot more with lowered stats) and give advantages to those that actively play the game/mode. The only downside I can see is that it won't conform with PvE anymore, but with the recent splits it seems anet are finally willing to budge - and with the upcoming alliance system I do think it's time we unhitch the wagon for a more healthy gameplay experience, and hopefully a balanced and fun proving ground for new players in our beloved gamemode :) > > > > (Fast edit: This would allow players who have made legendary armor to keep their benefit over others, and wouldn't devalue any current gear or progression players already have) > > Yes, that's why I proposed WvW only food (buyable with Badges of honour as it's currency which will be a great sink) with balanced buffs and duration which could be decided later. sPvP is more balanced/less power-creepy because these buffs don't exist over there i.e. utility and food. Let PvE food and util stay as it is as this won't affect PvE in the slightest. > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. > > > > Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about making a PvP mode balanced by promoting gear differences. Those "nominal stat difference" that exist still gives one edge over the other. If we want more competitiveness (PvP modes are supposed to be competitive by default, if not then there's a major flaw by design), these has to be eliminated. You and the other person are refusing to address the issue and keep this as a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. > > Also stop making excuses on promoting stat disparity by saying stuffs like "exotics can function just as well". Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over someone in full exotic. By not wanting equal footing suggests that you derive pleasure in killing undergeared players. I understand quite a bit more about this game than you, and that’s pretty evident. Let’s get this right... Normalizing gear does very little for “balance”, or even build diversity, as evidence inside spvp. “Balance” lies within profession development of builds, skills, traits... You’re making some big hoopla about a low percentage in stat differences, and gear that is easily obtained... The gear system inside wvw is not changing, and it’s fallacy to think that getting exotic gear to participate in wvw is some hurdle that needs to be addressed by normalizing gear and changing a huge source of game revenue for a 10%ish disparity... You’re ignoring all feedback, facts, repercussions... and only seem interested in arguing. Your same thought processes were brought up in 2012 when ascended gears were being introduced, so the facts prove you completely wrong on your arguments, and your not going to convince anyone, especially the devs, that gear should be normalized or that gems should be changed... Being lazier about wanting to gear up, with gear that all players have equal access to, isn’t some compelling or ground breaking reason for the changes you want. GL trying to rehash bad ideas from 6 years ago that weren’t implemented. And I’ve said what I have to say, so I’m not replying to any future comments, or bumping this poorly thought out idea for anyone’s benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceofbass.2163 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. ohoho this is just too precious. > Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over **someone** in full exotic. I really think you are comparing the differences on small scale fights just like in pvp as evidenced in this last statement of yours. Wvw is meant to be a large scale fight. A group with exotics can still win a fight if they are skilled enough. IMO I don't want the pvp standardized stat items as it would prevent people from mixing and matching diff armor stats and runes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > **3 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > **4 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > ## Benefits: > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"Rysdude.3824" said: > > So for option 1, players new to GW2 and its combat/mechanics system can bypass the content thats there to teach them and jump right in expecting to contribute to your team? Theyre more likely to get flamed for being a free rally. > > It'll be the same system as in sPvP just having more slots. It's not like the players new to gw2 now can't already jump to WvW at lower level than 80 currently. Basically this will make them autogeared the moment you step into WvW. Just quit. People new to WvW already jump in and play. We don't need to punish the players that have been here. Who are these people that cannot put in minimum work to obtain exotics? Entitled players that think everything should be totally equal to all no matter how much time has been put in? Stick to sPvP then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Just another "gimme free stuff, I cant commit to this gamemode (masked behind" balance" issues, in roaming no less!) ". You want to wvw properly? Great, the options are there. Get exotic boxes from reward tracks, get ascended armors with tickets, get ascended trinkets from living story reward tracks. Does that seem too hard, or too much time-consuming? Maybe wvw isnt for you, then. But, please, stop asking for free stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > **4 stat gear** > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"rng.1024" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > **3 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > **4 stat gear** > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > ## Benefits: > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > This might not seem as much of a change, but as foods, utilites and traits often compound with eachother, plus the overall culling of min/max values, this would reign in some of the more unbalanced builds out there, and make the balancing team's job alot easier for upcoming patches. WvW would still remain the PvE sandbox where they can test out changes and build variety. This would still leave plenty of incentive to chase ascended gear (those infusions count alot more with lowered stats) and give advantages to those that actively play the game/mode. The only downside I can see is that it won't conform with PvE anymore, but with the recent splits it seems anet are finally willing to budge - and with the upcoming alliance system I do think it's time we unhitch the wagon for a more healthy gameplay experience, and hopefully a balanced and fun proving ground for new players in our beloved gamemode :) > > > > (Fast edit: This would allow players who have made legendary armor to keep their benefit over others, and wouldn't devalue any current gear or progression players already have) > > Yes, that's why I proposed WvW only food (buyable with Badges of honour as it's currency which will be a great sink) with balanced buffs and duration which could be decided later. sPvP is more balanced/less power-creepy because these buffs don't exist over there i.e. utility and food. Let PvE food and util stay as it is as this won't affect PvE in the slightest. > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. > > > > Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about making a PvP mode balanced by promoting gear differences. Those "nominal stat difference" that exist still gives one edge over the other. If we want more competitiveness (PvP modes are supposed to be competitive by default, if not then there's a major flaw by design), these has to be eliminated. You and the other person are refusing to address the issue and keep this as a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. > > Also stop making excuses on promoting stat disparity by saying stuffs like "exotics can function just as well". Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over someone in full exotic. By not wanting equal footing suggests that you derive pleasure in killing undergeared players. Yeah it's quite similar. But the fundamental difference is it allows ascended gear to still be relevant, which is important for the game economy. When discussing these matters there are a few pointers one should consider: - Make sure you don't devalue progress players have already made (as in those with asc/leggy gear and infusions, food crafted etc) - Not everyone will agree with you, as seen in this thread, so there should be a middle ground we can all settle on - The last and by far most important if you want it implemented, is for it to change as little as possible with the most impact, and preferably be doable in a short amount of time And I don't agree with the food - anet has in the past refused to normalize WvW for the sake of PvE balance, meaning they want you to have the same options there. That's why food, sigils and runes should stay as is, because it's aligned with their vision of the mode. The only benefit lost with my option is the theoretical min/max and ascended gear statboost - even though the infusions would still function. I would even be all for doubling the infusion attributes from 5 - 10, meaning with all ascended gear you could get a 180 attribute bonus - which is the same value traits use. That would also be quite significant compared to someone with just exotic armor who can't benefit from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats Let me explain: 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyDaisy.4107 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 So, what exactly is it that wvw provides for the people that like it despite its armor system? Bigger maps? Bigger teams? PPT? Why not ask for whatever "it" is to be put in pvp (the only mode in game that already has a special armor system and the abilty to better balance team sizes to ensure fairer fights). There's no sense changing wvw to match another mode, even when attempting to point out perceived oversights by titling it "normalizing" when that other mode is the only 1 of the 4 game modes that's the normalized oddball. If anything, normalizing would be changing pvp to match armor and food choice and usage in OW Pve, Dungeons/Fractals and WvW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"rng.1024" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > Let me explain: > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > No. Your system is still the whole, "We are new here, and want the people that have devoted their time and energy to this to be brought down to our level." You want this system go play sPvP. Play the game, and eventually you too will have ascended/legendary gear to wear around. If you want sPvP to change go ahead and preach it on the mountaintops, but leave WvW alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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