Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Victory.2879" said: > Seen a new map lately? People reacted to the last map they added by throwing a tantrum and refusing to play on it out of spite rather than adapting to it, so I don't know what you're expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwAddict.9746 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > Your suggestions do nothing to balance it outside of small encounters. Which is sPvP. > > WvW may have those encounters, but again, it's never been intended to be balanced that way. Small encounters and roaming are still part of WvW last time I checked. And there are other reasons as well for this besides that as mentioned in the OP. > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. > > > > > > Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. > > > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about making a PvP mode balanced by promoting gear differences. Those "nominal stat difference" that exist still gives one edge over the other. If we want more competitiveness (PvP modes are supposed to be competitive by default, if not then there's a major flaw by design), these has to be eliminated. You and the other person are refusing to address the issue and keep this as a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. > > > > Also stop making excuses on promoting stat disparity by saying stuffs like "exotics can function just as well". Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over someone in full exotic. By not wanting equal footing suggests that you derive pleasure in killing undergeared players. > > for WvW to be competitive people would actually have to start playing the mode to win it. like winning skirmishes and the matches, yet that is currently pointless because of coverage disparities wich are natural in a mode with a match duration of several days. if through some magic coverage gets balanced and people start to play to win the match and winning get rewarded etc. then maybe we could discuss gear disparities, they are currently just so unimportant as everyone seems to play his own game when in WvW. for some winning fights on different scales matter, for others disrupting supply routes, defending, ktrain etc. if the mode was played as a competitive mode, then you could define roles in it and balance the classes around the roles they can play, then yeah maybe you need aswell everyone lvl 80 with equal statpool. but right now it just doesnt matter enough to put it in the game and it will likely make more people quit then join the mode, as people dont like change especially if their progress made gets invalid with a patch. > > and while the stat difference is great indeed, very few fights are decided by stats, i feel a difference when i play on my alt acc with only exotics but i dont have a differnt average result of the fights. Coverage disparities aka population imbalance, isn't that is what Anet is attempting to reduce with the help of the upcoming rework? It's mentioned in the FAQ of the rework itself. So while at it, why not go the extra step and eliminate the statistical disparity as well for an even more playing field? Mind you, population balance is way more harder than this. > @"aceofbass.2163" said: > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. > > ohoho this is just too precious. > I really think you are comparing the differences on small scale fights just like in pvp as evidenced in this last statement of yours. Wvw is meant to be a large scale fight. A group with exotics can still win a fight if they are skilled enough. Those little stats can be the difference between living and dying on the battlefield in a zerg vs zerg fight. How many times have people escaped with 100 health (equivalent to 10 vitality) in a big fight only to get healed and get back again? The bottom line is that stat gives an edge over another who doesn't have equalized gear and that doesn't mean an even playing field. > @"aceofbass.2163" said: > IMO I don't want the pvp standardized stat items as it would prevent people from mixing and matching diff armor stats and runes. > Did you read the OP? Genuine question. This sytem won't use the amulet system, it'll be exactly how it is right now i.e. you can mix armor stats/runes/sigils freely anytime you're out of combat. Only statistically will everyone be normalized. > @"Kaiser.9873" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > Let me explain: > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > No. Your system is still the whole, "We are new here, and want the people that have devoted their time and energy to this to be brought down to our level." You want this system go play sPvP. Play the game, and eventually you too will have ascended/legendary gear to wear around. If you want sPvP to change go ahead and preach it on the mountaintops, but leave WvW alone. May I ask why do you even want stat disparity in a PvP mode? After all, WvW is special in this regard since it offers zerg vs zerg battles unlike sPvP. People have been asking for balanced matches population wise since ages and now that they're finally attempting it (not necessarily will be successful), why not balance the other part i.e. the stats completely across the board? Mind you, this will allow you to fully customize your gear like you're being able to now. It won't devalue anything since gear will matter in PvE (a non competitive mode). Whether we like it or not, when player vs player is involved, it'll be competitive by nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about the game by the past couple requests. I’d suggest looking beyond your initial “emotional” requests and responses to something that bothers you. Look deeper into all areas before you throw out drastic ideas... You literally want to remove how gems function over a nominal stat difference in wvw, as you clearly stated... And that in itself is pretty off the wall. Think things through bud, because you’re only presenting poorly thought out and negative impact ideas. > > > > > > > > Also, stop making excuses on gear disparity. New players can walk right in to wvw wearing exotics and function just as well. > > > > > > You seem to lack a lot of understanding about making a PvP mode balanced by promoting gear differences. Those "nominal stat difference" that exist still gives one edge over the other. If we want more competitiveness (PvP modes are supposed to be competitive by default, if not then there's a major flaw by design), these has to be eliminated. You and the other person are refusing to address the issue and keep this as a barrier for newer players who wishes to hop into WvW but are repelled by the gear requirement. > > > > > > Also stop making excuses on promoting stat disparity by saying stuffs like "exotics can function just as well". Ascended with full infusions is still a big edge over someone in full exotic. By not wanting equal footing suggests that you derive pleasure in killing undergeared players. > > > > for WvW to be competitive people would actually have to start playing the mode to win it. like winning skirmishes and the matches, yet that is currently pointless because of coverage disparities wich are natural in a mode with a match duration of several days. if through some magic coverage gets balanced and people start to play to win the match and winning get rewarded etc. then maybe we could discuss gear disparities, they are currently just so unimportant as everyone seems to play his own game when in WvW. for some winning fights on different scales matter, for others disrupting supply routes, defending, ktrain etc. if the mode was played as a competitive mode, then you could define roles in it and balance the classes around the roles they can play, then yeah maybe you need aswell everyone lvl 80 with equal statpool. but right now it just doesnt matter enough to put it in the game and it will likely make more people quit then join the mode, as people dont like change especially if their progress made gets invalid with a patch. > > > > and while the stat difference is great indeed, very few fights are decided by stats, i feel a difference when i play on my alt acc with only exotics but i dont have a differnt average result of the fights. > > Coverage disparities aka population imbalance, isn't that is what Anet is attempting to reduce with the help of the upcoming rework? It's mentioned in the FAQ of the rework itself. So while at it, why not go the extra step and eliminate the statistical disparity as well for an even more playing field? Mind you, population balance is way more harder than this. they adress population imbalance with alliances wich affects coverage disparities a little but wont really change a thing. people still wont play the mode to win the matches as it still depends on coverage. especially in EU were national servers will be an issue in balancing population with the alliance system. while yes it is easier doable then creating a coverage balance, it still is not worth doing without coverage balance. if people play the same game with different goals, the gear is not as important and changing it like you suggest will just drive people away aslong as the mode as such is not competitive because, well everyone is playing their own game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > May I ask why do you even want stat disparity in a PvP mode? It's not a PvP mode. It's a realm-vs-realm mode. It has a lot of similarities with PvP, but it's not the same. > People have been asking for balanced matches population wise since ages and now that they're finally attempting it (not necessarily will be successful), Correction: they have always attempted it, they had trouble succeeding with it because, worlds, by their very nature, aren't interchangeable, so people flocked to some, & not to others. By decreasing the size of the building blocks from "world sized" to guild size, it will be easier to balance population. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with stats, builds, gear. It won't even be mostly the same devs involved in coding, analyzing. > why not balance the other part i.e. the stats completely across the board? You want to change the status quo. It's up to you to provide a convincing argument as to why that is an important thing to look at, let alone change in the direction you want. While you need not convince people such as myself who are agnostic about it, if you have trouble reaching folks like me, I'm fairly sure that the same argument won't have much impact on ANet. Or in brief (and turning your question around)... _May I ask why do you even think stat balancing is among the most important issues to tackle for WvW?_ You say that it is, but I don't understand the argument when it is not a determining factor in most fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory.2879 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @"Victory.2879" said: > > Seen a new map lately? > People reacted to the last map they added by throwing a tantrum and refusing to play on it out of spite rather than adapting to it, so I don't know what you're expecting. Why would that stop them developing a new map and then actually testing it(whilst still in development) with real players and using the player feedback BEFORE releasing what was obviously a spare PVE map designed for gliding? People didn't throw tantrums, they just didn't like it (and still don't)- it's not out of spite, when it came out without gliding the map was horrible. With gliding it's bearable but still pretty poor. I would say I was expecting them to actually devote some dev time to wvw, but it's been clear for years that it's a complete afterthought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Kaiser.9873" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > Let me explain: > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > No. Your system is still the whole, "We are new here, and want the people that have devoted their time and energy to this to be brought down to our level." You want this system go play sPvP. Play the game, and eventually you too will have ascended/legendary gear to wear around. If you want sPvP to change go ahead and preach it on the mountaintops, but leave WvW alone. Alot of assumptions here. If you must know I have been an exclusive WvW player since early 2015, with well over 5k hours in the mode. I have also been through the mill, both crafting and dropping ascended sets. And in case you didn't catch my point what I intended with the suggestion was to further incentivize players to get ascended gear playing this mode. I don't want to see it become sPvP for alot of reasons. But that doesn't mean WvW is no longer a competitive mode - and as such gear shouldn't carry that much importance nonetheless. Like I previously pointed out, ascended gear give you a ~5% attribute increase. One extra hit on your opponent equals x20 of that - what exactly is the big loss here if you are already a skilled player? The benefit of infusions and increased damage range should be more than fair for the time and effort invested imo, the change would simply be bringing the worst and best gear combos closer together leaving 90% of kits untouched. Judging by the bias in your post, I'm assuming you want to keep your ascended gear for the extra attribute points? As of today you are on equal footing with those who have invested into full ascended gear - that would not change at all. As of today you gain a 5% benefit compared to those with only exotics - you still would given infusions then would make for a 7,5% difference. I am actually trying to give you more of an advantage than you currently have for investing the time and effort, yet you still feel the need to defend it by principle that "WvW isn't sPvP"? Well then you ought to know that it's not gear that makes it unstructured - it's the amount of players. Which is why I want to keep gear customization at all costs, it allows theorycrafting, build testing and give goals for players to achieve. All the negatives of sPvP wouldn't be there, except all the numbers would be toned down abit giving gear and build choices much more of an impact (meaning you do less damage but more importantly that your opponent gets less tough/vit - again meaning it changes nothing on a ascended vs ascended or an exotic vs exotic level). This can happen in one of two ways - either we all suffer a minor setback that allow more balance - or anet swings the hammer randomly crushing only certain professions/specs. Which do you prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgs.6103 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 So... I have 9 ascended equipment sets, each with their corresponding trinkets and infusions just for WvW. If your system gets implemented, all the time and effort I invested in making those gear will be all for nothing. I'm not using them in PVE because I already have pve gear as well. Do I just throw them away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMelody.6398 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 The OP keeps dismissing the concerns of those who have put time and effort into wvw (including gearing up) as a "minor" concern compared to the "needs" of the people who don't want to put that time and effort into the mode. This isn't about balance, it's about someone not wanting to put the same level of effort into the game that the people who have come before him have. Any proposal that has the net effect of rendering the effort of the long-time vets basically meaningless so that those new to the mode can instantly and without effort be at the same level (in this case, gearwise) is something I will oppose 100%. This is not a "minor" issue regardless of what the OP wants to claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 if I wanted to play a mode with everybody normalized, I would play PVP. I worked hard for every single piece I got. And I got plenty. Also, you can wvw just fine in rare or exotic, if you don't act like an idiot (basically, dont do what I do. I am a certified rallybot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seductive.5741 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Sure , implement it. If i get back every single piece of Gold i ever used on creating Gear. Otherwise no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"rng.1024" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > Let me explain: > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > you still didnt get what i said. i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. i already said that exotics are cheap af. and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > Let me explain: > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. Not what MO said :dizzy: WvW is the crossover of pvp in pve, so players on WvW are tied to PVE. Issue on WvW besides balance overall, spvp is a joke in terms of balance as well, and would result basicly in the same and i would not want that, as in loose time changin/fixing something that would not solve anything, Anet already lost to much time changing glicko's from useless formulan to another useless formula that would be ending beign changed to the previous one. Issue with WvW is game is casually based on aoe stack and spam and the balance hurts alot the gameplay(probably the main issue), that and a lack of a decent backbone as in objectives/mechanics/siege/stuctures guild/players roles in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. > > Not what MO said :dizzy: > > WvW is the crossover of pvp in pve, so players on WvW are tied to PVE. > Issue on WvW besides balance overall, spvp is a joke in terms of balance as well, and would result basicly in the same and i would not want that, as in loose time changin/fixing something that would not solve anything, Anet already lost to much time changing glicko's from useless formulan to another useless formula that would be ending beign changed to the previous one. > > Issue with WvW is game is casually based on aoe stack and spam and the balance hurts alot the gameplay(probably the main issue), that and a lack of a decent backbone as in objectives/mechanics/siege/stuctures guild/players roles in the game. What is MO? Mursaat Overseer? And what do you mean by "balance overall"? The rest of your post i really have a hard time understanding, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. > > > > Not what MO said :dizzy: > > > > WvW is the crossover of pvp in pve, so players on WvW are tied to PVE. > > Issue on WvW besides balance overall, spvp is a joke in terms of balance as well, and would result basicly in the same and i would not want that, as in loose time changin/fixing something that would not solve anything, Anet already lost to much time changing glicko's from useless formulan to another useless formula that would be ending beign changed to the previous one. > > > > Issue with WvW is game is casually based on aoe stack and spam and the balance hurts alot the gameplay(probably the main issue), that and a lack of a decent backbone as in objectives/mechanics/siege/stuctures guild/players roles in the game. > > What is MO? Mursaat Overseer? And what do you mean by "balance overall"? The rest of your post i really have a hard time understanding, sorry. U bet he is the Mursaat Overseer :) It is a old video, but still accurate. I meant as balance overall the balance across the game modes, sorry for the bad english, if skills and classes were initially well designed and thinked there would be no necessity of split stats system nor skills from each game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. > > > > > > > > Not what MO said :dizzy: > > > > > > > > WvW is the crossover of pvp in pve, so players on WvW are tied to PVE. > > > > Issue on WvW besides balance overall, spvp is a joke in terms of balance as well, and would result basicly in the same and i would not want that, as in loose time changin/fixing something that would not solve anything, Anet already lost to much time changing glicko's from useless formulan to another useless formula that would be ending beign changed to the previous one. > > > > > > > > Issue with WvW is game is casually based on aoe stack and spam and the balance hurts alot the gameplay(probably the main issue), that and a lack of a decent backbone as in objectives/mechanics/siege/stuctures guild/players roles in the game. > > > > > > What is MO? Mursaat Overseer? And what do you mean by "balance overall"? The rest of your post i really have a hard time understanding, sorry. > > > > U bet he is the Mursaat Overseer :) > > > > It is a old video, but still accurate. > > > > AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA i am sorry, but the ignorance here is beyond 9000. You can also read the comments in the above video. Man, thanks for the laugh! So sad... Well in part they are right, WvW was initially a pvp "sandbox" for pve players, note sandbox betwin quotes... where pve players would atack each other or fight for strucutures (also very weak gameplay as well). Well after that they, i started to say time to go to pve rather than say ill go to WvW :) WvW is my pve :D, so it stand's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not what MO said :dizzy: > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is the crossover of pvp in pve, so players on WvW are tied to PVE. > > > > > > Issue on WvW besides balance overall, spvp is a joke in terms of balance as well, and would result basicly in the same and i would not want that, as in loose time changin/fixing something that would not solve anything, Anet already lost to much time changing glicko's from useless formulan to another useless formula that would be ending beign changed to the previous one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Issue with WvW is game is casually based on aoe stack and spam and the balance hurts alot the gameplay(probably the main issue), that and a lack of a decent backbone as in objectives/mechanics/siege/stuctures guild/players roles in the game. > > > > > > > > > > What is MO? Mursaat Overseer? And what do you mean by "balance overall"? The rest of your post i really have a hard time understanding, sorry. > > > > > > > > U bet he is the Mursaat Overseer :) > > > > > > > > It is a old video, but still accurate. > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA i am sorry, but the ignorance here is beyond 9000. You can also read the comments in the above video. Man, thanks for the laugh! So sad... > > > > Well in part they are right, WvW was initially a pvp "sandbox" for pve players, note sandbox betwin quotes... where pve players would atack each other or fight for strucutures (also very weak gameplay as well). > > They are either ignorant or trolling. Seriously. That would explain many things about why this gamemode is in such a state He was serious cause that was the point of WvW, reason Anet never putted much effort for the "be there" stack/spam/farm players and structures and leave back to pve(real one), was never ment to be more than that, like a dont care game mode just like EOTN is. I always was a bit rude and blunt towards how Anet abandoned the mechanics design and keeps adding blantness in favor of a easy and "unskilled" game. Still the change from pve stat system to a spvp shared system wont solve nothing, it m8 even get the game worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood.3490 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I have a better suggestion. Just revert everything to where it was in 2013. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > Let me explain: > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. And your argument for farming exotic gear: - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"rng.1024" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. ppl did fractals lv 100 in green gear? doesnt sound like that would be possible to do (certainly not by the average fractal runner), or atleast not how it was intended by the developers same with raids and wvw is actually a mix of pve and pvp, you can rank up by not fighting any humans at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"rng.1024" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots > > Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. > > Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. Or just leave it as is, since gear isn’t hard to acquire by any means, it is handed out just by playing the gamemode.... since your idea would still have a stat discrepancy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > > > > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > > > > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots > > > > Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. > > > > Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. > > Or just leave it as is, since gear isn’t hard to acquire by any means, it is handed out just by playing the gamemode.... since your idea would still have a stat discrepancy... The effort in question was to normalize gear in WvW. This would achieve exactly that, without ignoring the time and effort spent by players in order to obtain ascended gear. Normalize = Lower the difference between bottom and top tier stat allocation, here with exotics being the bottom and ascended the top. With the added benefit of lowering both extremes, meaning every attribute point would matter more than they currently do, encouraging build variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"rng.1024" said: > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? Sorry, that's not how it works. You want ANet to spend effort to change things. Therefore it's up to you to establish that there's an issue and that your suggestion is the best (or at least an effective) solution to it. It's assumed by pro-normalization group that stats matter a lot. That's why it's sufficient to point out that stats don't matter as much as is claimed. Counter arguments have given lots of examples of how stats aren't a fundamental problem. It is not enough to counter that by claiming that people are "fighting so hard to keep them." People aren't fighting at all to "keep them" — they are pointing out that it means that the proposal isn't necessary at all. I confess that I'm not moved by the "wasted effort" argument. If a massive change to the game would fundamentally change the game mode, I'd say, bring it on. Let's figure out how to address the transition in a way so it's not so painful that it drives people a way. However, in this case, the pro-normalization still haven't started with the basics: what exactly is the issue? Of all things in WvW, why would normalizing stats be important enough to devote all these resources? How would it change zerg v zerg, organized squad combat, defense of objectives, havoc, roaming? Would those changes make it more fun? How much would they change things? And I still don't see it: people aren't losing fights because one side is in ascended and the other is in exotics. Skill, builds, tactics, strategies, numbers... all of that matters more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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