Why Lock new weapon quests behind crafting?

[kurfu.5623]

> @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > OR....OOOORRRR..

> > You can use the trading post.

> > Crafting isnt needed

> > problem solved.

>

> You can't buy the lesser vision crystals needed to start the collections. That being said, I have no problem with crafting being required for some things (including this).

 

At least they put that gate at the beginning of the chain, instead of the end.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> It angers me that the only way I can get these items is to level up an aspect of the game I really don't want to.

 

You need to level up your trading post skills to get the collections? O.o

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > You know

> > > > This reasoning can be a damper on any content

> > > > "Why do i have to put in effort to get just about anything?"

> > >

> > > More like, why do boring content to get anything.

> > > Should have just made it obtainable through multiple ways. Then again, I dont know what weapons OP is talking about.

> >

> > But -

> >

> > A. Makes the process redundant, throws all the focus on the method of least effort/investment, and would still result in people complaining about how that "only method" out of the 3 ways to get it are "forcing them to do something they hate".

> > B. "Boring" is so subjective, and tossed around with impunity, that all of PvE could easily fall into this category. How long as this argument been going on for Gift of Battle? Where you can still cheese you're way through it, and essentially only costs you 8 hours of your time. Why do I need to do map complete to get Gift of Exploration?

>

> If people focus on least effort and investment, then it probably means the other methods arent... fun, or methods that interest them. If they designed obtainable content around things people found interesting that they could choose from, it wouldnt be so bad. A way for those who focus on PvE, PvP, and WvW.

>

> Its subjective and its also my opinion. Crafting to me aside from chef on release is incredibly dull and boring. A reason for why I havent bothered to get ascended gear or even legendary equipments after all the years I played the game. Even if the reward is amazing, if the task to complete is face desk dull, gotta expect people to say something about it and try to change it. Would be better to just have given multiple paths to obtain it though.

 

But, there are multiple paths: One can acquire the necessary items through the Trading Post (and even some through Karma Traders). Seems pretty simple.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> The complaint doesn't make sense to me:

>

> _Why do I have to do something I might not like to get something I want?_

>

> I can't think of many times in an MMO where I did ONLY something I really liked doing to get something I want.

 

It's one thing to suggest that people might have to do content they don't like to get a reward associated with that content. Crafting, on the other hand, is filler, not content. That you can't think of many times in an MMO where you only did something you really liked to get a reward says more about the nature of MMO's than anything else. Games are supposed to be fun, not time-wasting or laundry lists of things to do. It's a pity that consumers accept the busywork drivel that developers throw into MMO's. If they didn't, we might see better games. Oh, well. Even the defenses of crafting are by and large that it's not hard, not that it's really engaging game play. I guess players want time wasters and filler.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > The complaint doesn't make sense to me:

> >

> > _Why do I have to do something I might not like to get something I want?_

> >

> > I can't think of many times in an MMO where I did ONLY something I really liked doing to get something I want.

>

> It's one thing to suggest that people might have to do content they don't like to get a reward associated with that content. Crafting, on the other hand, is filler, not content.

 

I'm not sure you understand players enough to be able to make that statement. I know people that make it a POINT to do content JUST so they can craft things and sell them. Crafting IS their game, it IS their content. I mean, if people didn't want timewasters and filler, why would they play MMO's at all? Playing MMO's, while entertaining, is a COMPLETE waste of my time and unless you are somehow making money from it, it's a waste of time for everyone. Catergorizing some element of the game as 'filler' to justify why something shouldn't be locked behind that element just doesn't make any sense. Everything in this game is filler; it's simply a matter of what someone enjoys doing. Clearly OP doesn't like crafting, so of course he's going to QQ that something he wants is locked behind it ... but I'm sure he don't complain when something else he wants is locked behind HIS favourite content ... it's a little selfserving that argument.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > > You know

> > > > > This reasoning can be a damper on any content

> > > > > "Why do i have to put in effort to get just about anything?"

> > > >

> > > > More like, why do boring content to get anything.

> > > > Should have just made it obtainable through multiple ways. Then again, I dont know what weapons OP is talking about.

> > >

> > > But -

> > >

> > > A. Makes the process redundant, throws all the focus on the method of least effort/investment, and would still result in people complaining about how that "only method" out of the 3 ways to get it are "forcing them to do something they hate".

> > > B. "Boring" is so subjective, and tossed around with impunity, that all of PvE could easily fall into this category. How long as this argument been going on for Gift of Battle? Where you can still cheese you're way through it, and essentially only costs you 8 hours of your time. Why do I need to do map complete to get Gift of Exploration?

> >

> > If people focus on least effort and investment, then it probably means the other methods arent... fun, or methods that interest them. If they designed obtainable content around things people found interesting that they could choose from, it wouldnt be so bad. A way for those who focus on PvE, PvP, and WvW.

> >

> > Its subjective and its also my opinion. Crafting to me aside from chef on release is incredibly dull and boring. A reason for why I havent bothered to get ascended gear or even legendary equipments after all the years I played the game. Even if the reward is amazing, if the task to complete is face desk dull, gotta expect people to say something about it and try to change it. Would be better to just have given multiple paths to obtain it though.

>

> But, there are multiple paths: One can acquire the necessary items through the Trading Post (and even some through Karma Traders). Seems pretty simple.

 

Thats not so bad then. Thought it was only crafting that you can get the items.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> This isn't a participation trophy thing or anything. It's about letting all your players be able to get these weapons.

 

And they are. Able and willing are not the same thing. You're able to get these weapons. You're just not willing to do what is needed.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > The complaint doesn't make sense to me:

> > >

> > > _Why do I have to do something I might not like to get something I want?_

> > >

> > > I can't think of many times in an MMO where I did ONLY something I really liked doing to get something I want.

> >

> > It's one thing to suggest that people might have to do content they don't like to get a reward associated with that content. Crafting, on the other hand, is filler, not content.

>

> I'm not sure you understand players enough to be able to make that statement.

 

Perhaps you might want to reconsider that statement, after you (re)read the parts of the post you cropped.

 

> I know people that make it a POINT to do content JUST so they can craft things and sell them. Crafting IS their game, it IS their content.

 

To avoid a lengthy discussion about what constitutes game content, suffice it to say that the definition I'm using does not include standing before a crafting station, clicking a button and waiting. Ommv.

 

> I mean, if people didn't want timewasters and filler, why would they play MMO's at all? Playing MMO's, while entertaining, is a COMPLETE waste of my time and unless you are somehow making money from it, it's a waste of time for everyone.

 

Thank you. I'm glad we agree. Obviously, people play because they are entertained. Getting some pixel gewgaw as a "reward" is part of that enjoyment for many.

 

The thing is, if you're fighting a boss and get a drop, the fight -- if challenging or enlivening -- has the potential to change your body chemistry in ways that people experience as fun. That's why we see so many complaints about GW2 encounters lacking fun -- because for those players the fights aren't generating that experience.

 

If the fight has that element, though, it adds something to game-play. Add in the anticipation of reward and the excitement of getting a reward, and encounter content has the potential that both the process and outcome generate entertainment. Crafting, on the other hand, lacks on the process side -- unless one finds the guesswork in discovery sufficiently challenging to stimulate the brain. I'd argue that it doesn't, but, again, ommv. It certainly doesn't if one follows a guide.

 

> Categorizing some element of the game as 'filler' to justify why something shouldn't be locked behind that element just doesn't make any sense. Everything in this game is filler; it's simply a matter of what someone enjoys doing.

 

So, we agree that playing an MMO is time wasting, and thus everything in one is filler. However, there's filler that can generate enjoyment on multiple levels, and there's filler that exists (in the case of crafting) (1) to waste time ; and (2) to fuel the materials economy. The bottom line, for me, it that I prefer my time-wasting activities to be more engaging than crafting provides to me. If the best I can say about a game activity like crafting is, "It's over quickly and reasonably cheaply." then I'm not interested. Now, I don't turn around and demand the fruits of crafting, I just don't engage with it or those rewards. However, I can see why someone would complain.

 

> Clearly OP doesn't like crafting, so of course he's going to QQ that something he wants is locked behind it ... but I'm sure he don't complain when something else he wants is locked behind HIS favourite content ... it's a little selfserving that argument.

 

Most of the arguments in this (and most other) thread(s) are self-serving. That includes the perennial arguments in favor of maintaining the status quo. The vast majority of posters have an investment in outcomes.

[ReV.6097]

I have one of these new weapons, but I must admit that the Ascended stuff needed for weapons that aren't even ASCENDED!?, is stupid.

 

I barely ever want to go to do Fracs and I never intend to if it can be avoided for as long as I can.

I'll probably skip the other weapons, unless the monthly/daily ascended chest reward has the lesser vision crystals.

Or a WvW track?

 

[RoseofGilead.8907]

> @"ReV.6097" said:

> I have one of these new weapons, but I must admit that the Ascended stuff needed for weapons that aren't even ASCENDED!?, is stupid.

>

> I barely ever want to go to do Fracs and I never intend to if it can be avoided for as long as I can.

> I'll probably skip the other weapons, unless the monthly/daily ascended chest reward has the lesser vision crystals.

> Or a WvW track?

>

 

You only need the two lesser vision crystals. When you made and used that item (the one made with the lesser vision crystals), you unlocked the collections for all three weapons.

[ReV.6097]

> @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> You only need the two lesser vision crystals. When you made and used that item (the one made with the lesser vision crystals), you unlocked the collections for all three weapons.

 

Oh, yeah. Forgot that bit :P

I guess that's me sorted.

Still can't agree to them not being ascended weapons though. Couldn't they have made an extra collection for each so we could upgrade them o.O

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

### [Lesser Vision Crystal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Vision_Crystal)

 

Random drop from ...

 

* [Fluctuating Mass](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fluctuating_Mass)

* [Generosity's Reward](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Generosity%27s_Reward)

* [Gift from Mawdrey II](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_from_Mawdrey_II)

* [Glowing Stone](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glowing_Stone)

* [Gunk-Covered Pellet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gunk-Covered_Pellet)

* [Regal Bag of Goods](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regal_Bag_of_Goods)

 

If the OP isn't crafting, then they have little other use for the component materials of the crystal and are, hopefully, using the eaters. _Eventually_, they will get the required pair of lesser vision crystals.

 

 

[Shaogin.2679]

So I'm curious, do you not have a ton of mats stored up in your bank? I mean, if you've never leveled crafting but you've been playing the game for a decent bit, then you should already have all the mats you need to level up your crafting without investing much gold at all. It's as simple as getting on gw2crafts.net, following the quick guide for whatever crafting profession you need, and then following the instructions. You could have 500 crafting in a matter of minutes. So......what exactly is the issue here?

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> I don't get how I'm being lazy, and honestly, getting sick of it because that's not the case at all. Just because I don't want to do something I don't enjoy doing. Is not getting the collections good enough, I have to go and level up crafting, something that has no use to me other than to get these weapons? Frankly, crafting in this game is poorly implemented, anything that can be crafted, should be able to be sold. That is the primary reason for crafting, the people who enjoy it get to make money off of the things they can make. If they wanted to lock these new weapons behind crafting, make them so people can craft and sell them to people who don't enjoy that part of the game.

>

> Could you imagine the outrage of PvE players had these been locked behind endless hours of PvP. Even if these weapons were raid only, at least they would be obtainable by anybody who would care to try and get them.

 

Of cause that is not "laziness".

 

But crafting is required for so many things in this game, even for kitten ascended drops in fractals... you really have three options. You can keep cursing the heavens above, because it is very unlikely this will ever change and you will continue running into this brick wall or you can take the time to level crafting once and only bother with it when you really need it again. Or you can stop playing. These are really the options. Raging and explaining how crafting should work in GW2 is futile and you would better use the time to level it up. I am not saying I like or dislike it this way, but again, your approach is pointless.

[hugo.4705]

Don't tell me that 1 recipe in mystic forge + buy one orichalcum oiled weapon on Trading post is hard ?! But I agree with that afirmation for the first part: not everyone have lesser vision crystals on him but the craft isn't that hard: dragonites, bloodstone and empyreans are looted everywhere. They tried to be innovant whereas most collections are only "go there" "talk to npc" or "buy that item"...

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> So I'm curious, do you not have a ton of mats stored up in your bank? I mean, if you've never leveled crafting but you've been playing the game for a decent bit, then you should already have all the mats you need to level up your crafting without investing much gold at all. It's as simple as getting on gw2crafts.net, following the quick guide for whatever crafting profession you need, and then following the instructions. You could have 500 crafting in a matter of minutes. So......what exactly is the issue here?

 

The issue is that OP doesn't *want* to be "forced" to level up crafting to make the pair of LVCs. AND he doesn't want to acknowledge the multitude of posts in this thread that explain that it's not hard to get two LVCs without ever touching a crafting table. That is, he is not forced to level up crafting.

 

And of course, he isn't even forced to acquire the weapons. There's nothing mandatory about them. I happen to like the skins, but my price for acquiring them was to drop 40 Spirit Shards for a pair of Augur's Stones, and then to craft the LVCs, and then to find my 500-Weaponsmith to craft the Oiled Orichalcum blades and my 500-Huntsman for the Torch Head. You know, because I had already, ages ago, levelled up all the non-Scribe crafts to max on at least one character each, because I could. (For reasons that are probably best not examined in close detail, I have two level 500 Tailors, one of whom is *also* my level 500 Huntsman, while the other is also a 400-Jeweller.)

 

And to address the question of whether crafting in GW2 is good or bad, well, all I'll say is that it is what it is, and that I've seen MMORPGs where the crafting system was infinitely worse. (In Allods Online, the crafting system, last time I looked, was a sort of one-armed bandit system, with random quality and quantity results for crafting gear, including "you made junk". And don't let's start on ArcheAge's now-replaced system for crafting end-game gear up, where the result would be randomly selected between up one notch, no change, down one notch, down TWO notches, and *destroyed*.) It is epically tedious to level up a GW2 craft a long way in a single session, and in this aspect, SWTOR's crafting system beats all comers - you send your crew of companions to the workshop in your starship, and *they* craft items while you can get on with exploring, questing, playing PvP, or whatever floats your boat.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> ### [Lesser Vision Crystal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Vision_Crystal)

>

> Random drop from ...

>

> * [Fluctuating Mass](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fluctuating_Mass)

> * [Generosity's Reward](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Generosity%27s_Reward)

> * [Gift from Mawdrey II](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_from_Mawdrey_II)

> * [Glowing Stone](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glowing_Stone)

> * [Gunk-Covered Pellet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gunk-Covered_Pellet)

> * [Regal Bag of Goods](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regal_Bag_of_Goods)

>

> If the OP isn't crafting, then they have little other use for the component materials of the crystal and are, hopefully, using the eaters.

I know it's been mentioned already, but there are also two non-RNG ways to get a Lesser Vision Crystal:

* [Rare Regalia Achievement](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rare_Regalia "Rare Regalia Achievement")

* [Regal Bag of Goods](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regal_Bag_of_Goods "Regal Bag of Goods") from the [Exotic Attire Achievement](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regal_Bag_of_Goods "Exotic Attire Achievement")

 

Technically they're both crafting achievements, but neither actually requires crafting since the collection items are all available on the TP.

 

>_Eventually_, they will get the required pair of lesser vision crystals.

This isn't how randomness works... (Unless there's something in the game code to ensure that you definitely get a Lesser Vision Crystal after a certain number of random drops - is there?)

 

 

[Hoon.1524]

Try having to have leveled up Huntsman and Leatherworker to make the Predator when you don't play medium armor classes or need to make the weapons... QQ

 

POOR ME~!!

[DirtyDan.4759]

Level a crafting discipline to get a weapon? Disgusting!

[Zaraki.5784]

Be happy that they don't cost a fortune for these nice skins and don't complain! Really, some people are never satisfied...

However as someone else pointed out, you can buy the required items from TP.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> Be happy that they don't cost a fortune for these nice skins and don't complain! Really, some people are never satisfied...

> However as someone else pointed out, you can buy the required items from TP.

 

As everyone else *keeps pointing out*, You need 2 lesser vision crystals to even start the collections, the only guaranteed way of getting them is 500 crafting discipline, or two collections, so not applicable if those have already been obtained. Not that I think that’s a problem.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> Even if these weapons were raid only, at least they would be obtainable by anybody who would **care to try and get them**.

 

The irony of this statement is hilarious.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

I have all crafting disciplines on max since like 4 years. If you don't have it by now, just do it, don't complain and get along with it. It's not that big of a deal. Besides, it's convenient to craft Ascended items anyways. Or don't do it. BTW there are coming sometimes from the eater items like Mawdrey II or Gleam of Sentience etc. So you can omit that.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > The complaint doesn't make sense to me:

> >

> > _Why do I have to do something I might not like to get something I want?_

> >

> > I can't think of many times in an MMO where I did ONLY something I really liked doing to get something I want.

>

> It's one thing to suggest that people might have to do content they don't like to get a reward associated with that content. Crafting, on the other hand, is filler, not content. That you can't think of many times in an MMO where you only did something you really liked to get a reward says more about the nature of MMO's than anything else. Games are supposed to be fun, not time-wasting or laundry lists of things to do. It's a pity that consumers accept the busywork drivel that developers throw into MMO's. If they didn't, we might see better games. Oh, well. **Even the defenses of crafting are by and large that it's not hard, not that it's really engaging game play.** I guess players want time wasters and filler.

 

I can't speak for everyone but in my case that's more about the 'objective' of the post than my actual opinion of crafting.

 

The issue here is the OP does not like crafting and doesn't want to do it but feels forced to do it for something they want. What's more likely to help in that situation? Telling them they should like it? Trying to explain why I do as if they're going to suddenly go "Oh! I get it now, crafting is fun!"? Or explaining that it's a very minor barrier which is much easier to overcome than it might seem at first, especially if you've never touched crafting in GW2 because of not liking it in other games. Crafting is often much more tedious in other MMOs, especially ones where the results are randomised.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> ~SNIP~ It's about letting all your players be able to get these weapons. ~SNIP~

 

That is where your thinking is wrong right there, it's not about letting ALL of the players be able to obtain these weapons, they're now considered end game content. If you want them, you have to do some work for them...NOT everyone will want them or be able to obtain them, that is the objective. If you want them bad enough you will do what is necessary to obtain them, simple enough.