WvW-style maps for open world PvE, please!

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > * I think that the actual wvw maps themselves implemented directly into pve would be pretty boring (not much happening).

>

> That is not what I am asking for.

>

> > * Actually like the mobs in the WvW maps

>

> Also not what this topic is about.

>

> > Regarding the idea of turning a WvW map into a SW style map [...]

>

> Also not what I had in mind, clearly.

>

 

So basically, you made a topic about something, and want everyone to post "Yes, I agree!", not bother to come with any suggestions, ideas, own thoughts, aka not discuss on a discussion forum ?

 

Sorry if you didn't like my ideas, I was just thinking about the most logical/practical way of turning said WvW maps into something that I think a majority of players would find interesting/engaging.

 

But if all you want is "yes men" then I'll just leave this thread well alone.

 

> > @"juhani.5361" said:

> > I really love that giant fortress in the desert borderlands map with the lava pits, the shrines, the ancient look to it. The old ruins in both the desert map and the alpine borderlands have some gorgeous and interesting terrain to explore. [...]

> > In short, I'd love this! The maps feel so open and interesting. Treasure hunts, lore gathering... You could do so many fun things with these maps :)

>

> Exactly! =) I would be so thrilled to see this happen. <3

 

That actually sounds more like Zelda: Breath of the Wild, of Skyrim.

[zenleto.6179]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > Well, apparently you do have to explain yourself further, cuz I (and it seems others) are just not getting it. What "mysteries" and "treasures" are you finding in WvW? Or are you just speaking metaphorically, and I'm taking it literally?

>

> Basically they want more stuff to explore on each map than is currently there at least thats what im reading. Maps have some stuff to explore that serves no purpose other than for exploration but it seems like they would like to have more stuff to explore for just that purpose, the joy of exploring.

 

Correct, pretty much.

[qbalrog.8017]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> How I love the beautiful, diverse designs of the WvW maps. You have everything a classic fantasy RPG fan's heart desires: **old ruins, temples, fortresses, sewers**. <3

>

> Why can't we have that in open world PvE as well? To explore, to solve mysteries, to uncover old secrets and treasures (things you cannot do in WvW). (sighs) How I miss that in GW2.

 

Great idea. Not sure why this attracts nay Sayers so much but would love to see the same in pve.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> How I love the beautiful, diverse designs of the WvW maps. You have everything a classic fantasy RPG fan's heart desires: **old ruins, temples, fortresses, sewers**. <3

>

> Why can't we have that in open world PvE as well? To explore, to solve mysteries, to uncover old secrets and treasures (things you cannot do in WvW). (sighs) How I miss that in GW2.

 

I don't get this post ... OW has lots of that stuff ... I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason. So it seems like there is more but there isn't; it's just in a smaller area than OW is.

[juhani.5361]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > How I love the beautiful, diverse designs of the WvW maps. You have everything a classic fantasy RPG fan's heart desires: **old ruins, temples, fortresses, sewers**. <3

> >

> > Why can't we have that in open world PvE as well? To explore, to solve mysteries, to uncover old secrets and treasures (things you cannot do in WvW). (sighs) How I miss that in GW2.

>

> I don't get this post ... OW has lots of that stuff ... I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason. So it seems like there is more but there isn't; it's just in a smaller area than OW is.

 

One thing that I really like about the WvW maps is that the buildings and explorable areas are actually larger and more open. That one giant fortress in the desert borderlands must be close to half the size of Divinity's Reach. The open ruin areas are a lot larger in scale than points of interest on multiple maps. Though the intent was for lots of open space for combat and battles, it also creates a feeling of vastness that seems to be missing from most of the PvE maps. It feels liberating to be there.

[juhani.5361]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> Well, apparently you do have to explain yourself further, cuz I (and it seems others) are just not getting it. What "mysteries" and "treasures" are you finding in WvW? Or are you just speaking metaphorically, and I'm taking it literally?

 

It's definitely metaphorical, but it could be literal if Anet sees value in it ;) I definitely feel like there could be lots of neat tidbits waiting for discovery when I enter a WvW map. Then again, one of my favorite things to do during the festival was jump up on every random rock in the Labyrinthine Cliffs just to see what might be there.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason.

 

Compact? They are larger and have tons more atmosphere and variety in one map that we could ever dream of in PvE.

 

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> Well, apparently you do have to explain yourself further, cuz I (and it seems others) are just not getting it. What "mysteries" and "treasures" are you finding in WvW?

 

LOL! Oh my... There are _none_ in WvW. Okay, I'll put it in a short, (hopefully) simple sentence: **Me want WvW style maps** (design) **coupled with exciting exploration-themed content** (doesn't exist yet).

 

Edit: I'll add a few screenshots in my OP of WvW fortresses to show the difference between Silverwaste "fortresses" (a joke) and realistic ones (like in WvW). The same goes for general landscapes, sewers and what not, which are all much better designed (i.e., vaster, more detailed etc.) than what we got in current PvE, and I might take screenshots of those later as well and further add them to my OP.

[Etria.3642]

First, OP, check out the obsidian sanctum jump puzzle.

Second, I always wanted the Harathi Hinterlands fortresses to explore, but alas, we only got to delve into a teensy bit of it. That loading screen!!

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > How I love the beautiful, diverse designs of the WvW maps. You have everything a classic fantasy RPG fan's heart desires: **old ruins, temples, fortresses, sewers**. <3

> >

> > Why can't we have that in open world PvE as well? To explore, to solve mysteries, to uncover old secrets and treasures (things you cannot do in WvW). (sighs) How I miss that in GW2.

>

> I don't get this post ... OW has lots of that stuff ... I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason. So it seems like there is more but there isn't; it's just in a smaller area than OW is.

 

My thought as well.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason.

>

> Compact? They are larger and have tons more atmosphere and variety in one map that we could ever dream of in PvE.

>

 

So they have tons of atmosphere and variety compared to a PVE map ... but they aren't compact relative to PVE maps? That doesn't make sense. If it's got more stuff and variety and it's area is similar, how it's not more compact?

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason.

> >

> > Compact? They are larger and have tons more atmosphere and variety in one map that we could ever dream of in PvE.

> >

>

> So they have tons of atmosphere and variety compared to a PVE map ... but they aren't compact relative to PVE maps? That doesn't make sense. If it's got more stuff and variety and it's area is similar, how it's not more compact?

 

Well, to be fair, they claimed that the area is not similar.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

I personally don't see the attraction of WvW maps.

 

I think that PoF lately did delve exactly into what OP describes. With lots of detail inside a city/huge temple/ dungeon vs outside of those.

 

But maybe I misunderstand it, because WvW isnt that interesting an environment for me in those regards. Yeah they have some sneaky entrances with some minor sewer where you jump down a well and are somewhere else, but.. idk the areas in PvE do this alot better than WvW.

 

But yeah PoF i feel has the better content in that regards. (not counting bounties there btw)

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason.

> > >

> > > Compact? They are larger and have tons more atmosphere and variety in one map that we could ever dream of in PvE.

> > >

> >

> > So they have tons of atmosphere and variety compared to a PVE map ... but they aren't compact relative to PVE maps? That doesn't make sense. If it's got more stuff and variety and it's area is similar, how it's not more compact?

>

> Well, to be fair, they claimed that the area is not similar.

 

Right ... so they just don't realize that the per area, the stuff that's in WvW is similar to the stuff that's in PvE.

 

Personally, i don't even get the argument to begin with. WvW aren't interesting to explore as maps at all. One is just a big castle. The other BG's are cliffs with a castle in the middle iwth a few structures all over the place. How that's more interesting than PvE I can't see.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > I mean, the WvW maps are compact for a reason.

> > > >

> > > > Compact? They are larger and have tons more atmosphere and variety in one map that we could ever dream of in PvE.

> > > >

> > >

> > > So they have tons of atmosphere and variety compared to a PVE map ... but they aren't compact relative to PVE maps? That doesn't make sense. If it's got more stuff and variety and it's area is similar, how it's not more compact?

> >

> > Well, to be fair, they claimed that the area is not similar.

>

> Right ... so they just don't realize that the per area, the stuff that's in WvW is similar to the stuff that's in PvE.

>

> Personally, i don't even get the argument to begin with. WvW aren't interesting to explore as maps at all. One is just a big castle. The other BG's are cliffs with a castle in the middle iwth a few structures all over the place. How that's more interesting than PvE I can't see.

 

I found WvW maps interesting to explore, but certainly not more so than PvE maps.

[joneirikb.7506]

WvW maps are more open/sandbox, they're not designed (as much) to direct you towards things, and they don't feel as crowded, since there are less "things" going on (events, hearts, poi/vista etc).

 

Most normal PvE maps are more directed/themepark by design, they try to give you natural paths to follow, direct you with events etc (nodes, mobs, hearts, poi/vista, heropoints etc). There is much more going on on the map, and thus you automatically keep following different types of paths (depending on what you're interested in).

 

If you prefer the type of exploration in games like Skyrim and Zelda:BotW then the WvW maps would feel closer to that than the usual PvE maps.

[maddoctor.2738]

I find the WVW map designs really bland and boring to be honest, only the Desert Borderlands is detailed enough with lots of variety all over.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> I think that PoF lately did delve exactly into what OP describes. With lots of detail inside a city/huge temple/ dungeon vs outside of those.

 

Yes, PoF was a step in the right direction, but still not at the level I desire (I yearn for a classic RPG feel). ANet can do better, I know it ;) (as proven by the last story mission in LWS4 Episode 3).

[mindcircus.1506]

I actually, after discovering WvW felt exactly the same way. DBL specifically offers some great design and visuals. I love that map so much.

But I felt was the reasons I loved it and wanted PvE on it were taken care of with the PoF maps. That itch to explore areas like that were taken care of in Crystal Oasis and Desert Highlands.

[Hesacon.8735]

I always thought wvw maps would double as great fractals. They have everything they need, including a clear goal. Cap this thing while fighting off a zerg. Urban Battleground is _sort_ of like this, but it doesn't feel the same when you play it.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> I always thought wvw maps would double as great fractals. They have everything they need, including a clear goal. Cap this thing while fighting off a zerg. Urban Battleground is _sort_ of like this, but it doesn't feel the same when you play it.

 

Agreed.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> How I love the beautiful, diverse designs of the WvW maps. You have everything a classic fantasy RPG fan's heart desires: **old ruins, temples, fortresses, sewers**. <3

>

> Why can't we have that in open world PvE as well? To explore, to solve mysteries, to uncover old secrets and treasures (things you cannot do in WvW). (sighs) How I miss that in GW2.

>

> ## Examples

>

> **1. WvW fortress**

> Outside on the horizon:

> 

> Inside, ground level:

> 

>

> (will add other motives soon)

 

There are 53 unique pve maps (compared to the 5 measly wvw maps provided over 6 years) that have various “old ruins, temples, fortresses, sewers”... and much more... that contain a heck ton more “exploration, mystery solving, secrets and treasures” features than any wvw map.

 

Some posters are looking at this request like “huh?” and scratching their heads, so I think you need to articulate better what you want out of a new map...

 

And FYI, WvW maps are mostly linear and simplistic, aside from the Desert Borderlands... WvW maps are not as grand and remarkable as you are making them out to be...

[hugo.4705]

Agreed, WvW designs are awesome, but the better is for me stonemist castle, when ABITS (bug in the system) was released I was waiting for a fortress that would be very similar to that castle, not Rata Sum BIS. I love the crypt, jumping puzzles, and jungles area within the maps.

[Tatwi.3562]

Vigil Keep in Gendarran Fields is a good example of a huge place that's already in the game, but surprisingly lacks detailed ways to explore it. I would happily pay for an expansion that took all those neat places and made them "grander", more detailed in terms of things one can do and see in them. Think Stronghold of Ebonhawke, but with stuff to do similar to the LW3 maps and misc city events/content.

Anyway, I am not disappointed by what is already in the PvE world to explore. More is always welcome though! :)

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > What the ----? There is no PvE content in WvW. :s

> > > Karma trains would beg to differ. ;)

> >

> > Farming karma has zero to do with the content I suggested, though...

>

> Farming Karma in WvW is PvE content on the basis that your commander avoids zerg PvP and focuses on taking tower supervisors, camps and daily Vets (ergo, player vs environment) - or more commonly, player vs door.

 

What a bunch of wussys those are!

 

Dry Top is a good map within this aspect maybe moooobs need to be harder? :D

[Ashantara.8731]

Added more screenshots to my OP. Will see if I can catch the sewers some time this week.

 

P.S. By the way, there is _one_ such place in open world PvE that has what I am asking for, and I wish there were more such exciting-to-explore places: **Derelict Delve**.