On a scale from 3 to -3, where -3 is a complete disaster, how bad/good are the new Herald changes?

[Awn.1327]

They fixed some renegade problems for me and herald is still strong. All good. The bugs are a bit meh, though.

[otto.5684]

My issue is that before and after the rework things are mostly the same. Power herald in PvE will be around the same. In sPvP I honestly cannot tell if it is a buff or nerf (I am leaning towards the later).

 

Condi seems to pretty much the same. It sure is a plus for support, but I cannot see a support build in PvE not built around 2 of the following 3:

100% uptime on quickness

100% uptime on alacrity

25 group might stacking

 

Herald cannot do any of the above. In fact, renegade is better here. It is remains to be seen in PvP, though I do not think it will be able to compete with FB.

 

Also, personally disappointment for me, I wanted to see a shield change. That was probably the highest on the required change list (after renegade). It was key to have a bruiser based build in PvP. Can it work with just the current changes (or a support/bunker build)? Maybe, but as far as I can tell it won’t.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Interesting to see how varied the responses are. Quite a variety in opinion.

[Threather.9354]

Overall I like the changes and what they did with herald overall. The facet of nature passive numbers seem a little bit underwhelming for -3 energy (especially ventari and glint) and warrant some kind of buff but at least the active effects are great.

 

I do feel like they added one useless trait (Shining aspects) that I don't see using in any build but overall the trait change was super great.

 

Herald feels fun now, so many options. And 1 per 10 is enough buffwise!! Imagine that!!

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I've been trying out some bruiser builds with all the added healing traits with avatar stats in pvp, sword/shield and staff, glint/jalis and its been holding up decently. Haven't ran into many teams yet with a lot of condi though so maybe its a fluke.

 

I like the idea behind facet of nature, but it costs way too much to be worth it and true nature just doesnt feel good.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Now that phase traverse has been de-shitted I would change my vote to a 2. New facet is bad but everything else makes up for it by a mile.

 

One thing is CR is currently not actually split for PvP. They should honestly keep it that way. Other classes have way more broken things than a 20 second cd CC.

[Scar.1793]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

>

> One thing is CR is currently not actually split for PvP. They should honestly keep it that way. Other classes have way more broken things than a 20 second cd CC.

 

Yea but if you’re not a thief/mesmer/warrior it’s not ok in their book as far as I can tell.

[nedlee.5943]

Overall it's a pretty terrible 'overhaul'.

 

Several things are borderline useless due to how they are balanced., It's so bad that people are unsure how stuffs are working or bugged and not working at all...zero care about bugs were given, and they took away well liked things for no apparent reasons.

 

Anet thought this was such a fantastic rework that will be received so well that they even wrote a PR article (they wasn't one for chrono and deadeye rework, just some forum posts) and tried to create some hype...they are clueless as always.

 

Be wary when they talk about some weird concepts ('Assisting humanity'), not actual and specific design goals, since that means they have no idea what to do so they just are being vague. They did that with renegade as well - the reveal video talked about concepts ('it summons shells from portals, looks amazing isn't it guys'), not actually what it can and should do.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> >

> > One thing is CR is currently not actually split for PvP. They should honestly keep it that way. Other classes have way more broken things than a 20 second cd CC.

>

> Yea but if you’re not a thief/mesmer/warrior it’s not ok in their book as far as I can tell.

 

Yep, they just patched it.

 

Anet balance team logic. Patch results in one of the favorite children being busted? Ehhhh let it slide for 3+ months. Revs accidentally viable? Emergency hot-fixed in less than 2 days.

[Kraljevo.2801]

I like the changes overall.

 

Just fix the bugs please, add tooltip descriptions and buff the passive facet nature a bit for ventari, shiro and glint.

 

Shining aspects is also a bit weird. Probably meant to be used with Rapid Flow but meh. boring trait

[Scar.1793]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > >

> > > One thing is CR is currently not actually split for PvP. They should honestly keep it that way. Other classes have way more broken things than a 20 second cd CC.

> >

> > Yea but if you’re not a thief/mesmer/warrior it’s not ok in their book as far as I can tell.

>

> Yep, they just patched it.

>

> Anet balance team logic. Patch results in one of the favorite children being busted? Ehhhh let it slide for 3+ months. Revs accidentally viable? Emergency hot-fixed in less than 2 days.

 

Proves how I need to stay away from sPvP and WvW once I’m done farming for Warbinger. I hate to say it but even WoW’s pvp feels better and more skilled by miles.

[ImperialWL.7138]

> @"nedlee.5943" said:

> Overall it's a pretty terrible 'overhaul'.

>

> Several things are borderline useless due to how they are balanced., It's so bad that people are unsure how stuffs are working or bugged and not working at all...zero care about bugs were given, and they took away well liked things for no apparent reasons.

>

> Anet thought this was such a fantastic rework that will be received so well that they even wrote a PR article (they wasn't one for chrono and deadeye rework, just some forum posts) and tried to create some hype...they are clueless as always.

>

> Be wary when they talk about some weird concepts ('Assisting humanity'), not actual and specific design goals, since that means they have no idea what to do so they just are being vague. They did that with renegade as well - the reveal video talked about concepts ('it summons shells from portals, looks amazing isn't it guys'), not actually what it can and should do.

 

haha, nice post and I agree wholeheartedly, but I smell a forum ban incoming xD all that roleplay shit was funny but extremely sad, showing how really clueless they are. The class got dumbed down a lot, a lot more passives and less reactive play, which is in line with the direction that GW2 has been going in.

 

To clarify, Facet of nature is quite a big nerf overall, with the increased cost to upkeep and the actives being very underwhelming (even when traited) compared to old boons. Hammer rev in WvW got damage buffs but loses on everything else (boon duration, support, and a lot of the intricacies of the class are gone, hence the aforementioned dumbing down). Overall a lot more passive and braindead to play. Heal rev can be used in niche scenarios but overall won't be any good vs scepter 3 cancer from necros and general powercreep. Haven't tried rev yet in pvp so can't comment.

[ImperialWL.7138]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > >

> > > > One thing is CR is currently not actually split for PvP. They should honestly keep it that way. Other classes have way more broken things than a 20 second cd CC.

> > >

> > > Yea but if you’re not a thief/mesmer/warrior it’s not ok in their book as far as I can tell.

> >

> > Yep, they just patched it.

> >

> > Anet balance team logic. Patch results in one of the favorite children being busted? Ehhhh let it slide for 3+ months. Revs accidentally viable? Emergency hot-fixed in less than 2 days.

>

> Proves how I need to stay away from sPvP and WvW once I’m done farming for Warbinger. I hate to say it but even WoW’s pvp feels better and more skilled by miles.

 

Probably a lot more balanced (not hard though considering GW2 balance in all honesty).

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> > @"nedlee.5943" said:

> > Overall it's a pretty terrible 'overhaul'.

> >

> > Several things are borderline useless due to how they are balanced., It's so bad that people are unsure how stuffs are working or bugged and not working at all...zero care about bugs were given, and they took away well liked things for no apparent reasons.

> >

> > Anet thought this was such a fantastic rework that will be received so well that they even wrote a PR article (they wasn't one for chrono and deadeye rework, just some forum posts) and tried to create some hype...they are clueless as always.

> >

> > Be wary when they talk about some weird concepts ('Assisting humanity'), not actual and specific design goals, since that means they have no idea what to do so they just are being vague. They did that with renegade as well - the reveal video talked about concepts ('it summons shells from portals, looks amazing isn't it guys'), not actually what it can and should do.

>

> haha, nice post and I agree wholeheartedly, but I smell a forum ban incoming xD all that roleplay kitten was funny but extremely sad, showing how really clueless they are. The class got dumbed down a lot, a lot more passives and less reactive play, which is in line with the direction that GW2 has been going in.

>

> To clarify, Facet of nature is quite a big nerf overall, with the increased cost to upkeep and the actives being very underwhelming (even when traited) compared to old boons. Hammer rev in WvW got damage buffs but loses on everything else (boon duration, support, and a lot of the intricacies of the class are gone, hence the aforementioned dumbing down). Overall a lot more passive and braindead to play. Heal rev can be used in niche scenarios but overall won't be any good vs scepter 3 cancer from necros and general powercreep. Haven't tried rev yet in pvp so can't comment.

 

Anet is great @ hype, just look to what kind of players this game is designed, they made Herald passive boon fart to 10 players... more friendly casual gameplay....

 

[Reverielle.3972]

Now that the new PvP season has begun, it's still very clear that the shield and (various other changes) are still completely useless there, it's a shame: It's a specialised weapon, yet apparently completely useless still.

[Amins.3710]

Shield is a joke - especially since it roots you and so many classes have skills that allow thier attacks to be unblockable... sure, how bout i just sit here with my thumb up my ass for 3s while a necro, warrior, rev and ranger all pop their unblockables and insta down me for lawls. Pay attention Anet - you're loosing people faster than you're gaining and this crap aint' helping

[aimz.6287]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> My issue is that before and after the rework things are mostly the same. Power herald in PvE will be around the same. In sPvP I honestly cannot tell if it is a buff or nerf (I am leaning towards the later).

>

> Condi seems to pretty much the same. It sure is a plus for support, but I cannot see a support build in PvE not built around 2 of the following 3:

> 100% uptime on quickness

> 100% uptime on alacrity

> 25 group might stacking

>

> Herald cannot do any of the above. In fact, renegade is better here. It is remains to be seen in PvP, though I do not think it will be able to compete with FB.

>

> Also, personally disappointment for me, I wanted to see a shield change. That was probably the highest on the required change list (after renegade). It was key to have a bruiser based build in PvP. Can it work with just the current changes (or a support/bunker build)? Maybe, but as far as I can tell it won’t.

 

What are you talking about dude? Me and my buddy did a group raid we both went Gerald healing and had constant 25 might ??? Maybe your not good at it? Have you ever thought of that . No disrespect but if I can do it and you can’t than it’s user error

[Halikus.1406]

> @"nedlee.5943" said:

> Overall it's a pretty terrible 'overhaul'.

>

> Several things are borderline useless due to how they are balanced., It's so bad that people are unsure how stuffs are working or bugged and not working at all...zero care about bugs were given, and they took away well liked things for no apparent reasons.

>

> Anet thought this was such a fantastic rework that will be received so well that they even wrote a PR article (they wasn't one for chrono and deadeye rework, just some forum posts) and tried to create some hype...they are clueless as always.

>

> Be wary when they talk about some weird concepts ('Assisting humanity'), not actual and specific design goals, since that means they have no idea what to do so they just are being vague. They did that with renegade as well - the reveal video talked about concepts ('it summons shells from portals, looks amazing isn't it guys'), not actually what it can and should do.

 

This^

 

Adding to the post, I'm glad they decided to rework something in revenant but Herald? Really???

Not core rev or Renegade but herald the only working spec? As if Revenant wasn't already completely dependent of it's elite specs, after rework they made this 2/3 times worse.

 

I got pretty salty myself when they removed equilibrium, like most decent revs did and the thing they added in it's place is not even funny. As if it wasn't enough they rework OH sword using the most retarded excuse I've ever seen, quoting them " off-hand sword weapon for the revenant had a bit of an identity crisis", in an attempt of giving back the burst dmg they took from us. But what was amusing about that quote is that they decided to "fix" the identity crisis on OH sword giving it the same purpose as Axe, which can be used in both condi and power builds but has nowhere near the dmg of the oh-sword. Which again make revenant dependent of something, in this case the sword for burst dmg the only role left for revenant in pvp.

 

I've been away from the game it will be almost 6 months now and I had hopes for this rework when they finally announced a fix for underwater legends adding glint, but I'm honestly at the end of my hopes at this point. I have no doubts that anet can do some good things, that's why I didn't give a -3, but every time they take a step foward they seem to take 3 backwards at the same time.

[lombomon.7268]

_Mechanically_ the changes are all improvements over the old traits. The new traits actually interact with Facets and the F2! A lot of people are upset about the changes not necessarily improving Herald's performance in some cases, but of course the numbers can and will be tweaked in the future to improve the effectiveness of the new traits/F2.

 

I am a bit disappointed in a few things. Shield skills got no love outside of the condi cleanse from the new Hardening Persistence and the new F2 needs to be adjusted a bit. However, again, I am very happy with the mechanics of the new traits!

[otto.5684]

> @"aimz.6287" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > My issue is that before and after the rework things are mostly the same. Power herald in PvE will be around the same. In sPvP I honestly cannot tell if it is a buff or nerf (I am leaning towards the later).

> >

> > Condi seems to pretty much the same. It sure is a plus for support, but I cannot see a support build in PvE not built around 2 of the following 3:

> > 100% uptime on quickness

> > 100% uptime on alacrity

> > 25 group might stacking

> >

> > Herald cannot do any of the above. In fact, renegade is better here. It is remains to be seen in PvP, though I do not think it will be able to compete with FB.

> >

> > Also, personally disappointment for me, I wanted to see a shield change. That was probably the highest on the required change list (after renegade). It was key to have a bruiser based build in PvP. Can it work with just the current changes (or a support/bunker build)? Maybe, but as far as I can tell it won’t.

>

> What are you talking about dude? Me and my buddy did a group raid we both went Gerald healing and had constant 25 might ??? Maybe your not good at it? Have you ever thought of that . No disrespect but if I can do it and you can’t than it’s user error

 

?! Not personall might.. but providing 25 might for the entire group.

[aimz.6287]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"aimz.6287" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > My issue is that before and after the rework things are mostly the same. Power herald in PvE will be around the same. In sPvP I honestly cannot tell if it is a buff or nerf (I am leaning towards the later).

> > >

> > > Condi seems to pretty much the same. It sure is a plus for support, but I cannot see a support build in PvE not built around 2 of the following 3:

> > > 100% uptime on quickness

> > > 100% uptime on alacrity

> > > 25 group might stacking

> > >

> > > Herald cannot do any of the above. In fact, renegade is better here. It is remains to be seen in PvP, though I do not think it will be able to compete with FB.

> > >

> > > Also, personally disappointment for me, I wanted to see a shield change. That was probably the highest on the required change list (after renegade). It was key to have a bruiser based build in PvP. Can it work with just the current changes (or a support/bunker build)? Maybe, but as far as I can tell it won’t.

> >

> > What are you talking about dude? Me and my buddy did a group raid we both went Gerald healing and had constant 25 might ??? Maybe your not good at it? Have you ever thought of that . No disrespect but if I can do it and you can’t than it’s user error

>

> ?! Not personall might.. but providing 25 might for the entire group.

 

Nah you can with a little help of your Mesmer friend easily. Usually I get to like 20 might and everyone around +mesmers keep it steady 25

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I only have the WvW and PVE perspective on this. I... don't like these changes too much.

 

First, I am aware that1/3rd of these changes exist solely to make Herald a healing spec. I guess Anet wasn't happy with Renegade being the healing spec, or they weren't happy that Rev didn't have two separate healing specs. I mean, I don't think anyone was looking for large intra-class diversity for healing specs.

 

I don't know what the exact values for the facet of nature are. I'm finding energy management to be an issue now. When swapping legends, one of the things I could do is turn the other facets off without having to put them on cooldown, but Facet of Nature stays on unless I hit zero energy. In WvW this is posing a great inconvenience, since it doesn't let me activate IO or most of my facets. I have to blow the active in order to use it. Previously, I did double-tap facet of nature for a quick boon set, but now the actives are so situational that I feel burdened by just activating the passive to begin with.

 

I don't like any of the Adept tier traits. I both zerg and solo roam in essentially the same build, and the adept tier has nothing for me in either PvE or WvW. Rising momentum is the only semi-useful one, because if there are multiple heralds in the same squad then I can take it to act as a mobile protect bot instead of a swiftness/fury/might bot. Other than that niche, the traits all accomplish very little.

 

I don't like Draconic Fortitude. 10% more health is a very minor buff, and I found the endurance regen from Vigorous Persistence to be much more useful.

 

The master tier continues the trend of "heal by 1000 band-aids" with Shining Aspects. Shining Aspects is arguably worse than Draconic Fortitude, because at least DF gives you more health immediately with no strings attached. Hardening persistence buff is O.K., and Shared Empowerment is O.K., but my PVE side is just missing the additional damage under protection.

 

It is hard to consider Reinforced Potency a buff. On the one hand, just giving minor boon duration was only mediocre, but on the other hand the damage bonuses that this skill gives really just replaces the bonus from the master tier. But... we didn't really get anything special in the master tier to take advantage of that. We've gone back to using Shared Empowerment again.

 

The grandmaster tier is the only place that has really good traits. Draconic Echo is great for zerg running, and (maybe) for raids. Elevated Compassion because Healer. Forceful Persistence is actually a substantial damage bonus. This is the only tier where I can see a measurable impact to my choices.

 

------------------------------

 

You know, back in the olden days I once ran around on my necromancer for a full day without traits. By accident. I didn't know that I didn't reset traits, because at the time they were so unimportant that I never noticed. Since then, I've used this as a threshold for whether or not a tree is good or not. I think to myself "If I forget to pick this trait, is it going to impact me in a meaningful way?" The adept and master tiers of Herald suffer from this problem. There's nothing of consequence in these tiers. Any build I make is "whatever/whatever/Draconic Echo", because they have that little of an impact on me and those around me.

 

Maybe other people will find better uses and better builds, but for me everything just feels awkward and doesn't change much in overall performance.

[Caligrafers Blade.3871]

I like how it started; the devs seem to be headed in the right direction. New F2 with the 10-man buff seemed pretty good, especially in a smallish roaming party, and the 13% damage increase on other legend's upkeep skills was also nice. However, I'm still going to give this a bad score only because of how unfinished and buggy it has been, plus the cost of F2. That's some really weird energy management which I at least can't seem to figure out. And the shield skills continue to amuse me. Skill 5 especially has got to do more than just lock us in place and cleanse/heal... like blind enemies with some crystal flash thing or something.

[Infusion.7149]

Herald F2 is useless (for the way I use it) on glint now because concentration was cut in half , takes -3 upkeep, and protection was removed from the consume (F2 active).

 

I've been testing it with jalis.

[Buran.3796]

Overall a negative change, as almost always.

 

The good things are the low cooldown of Chaotic Release (but is so strong that probably will be nerfed) and the +10% HP minor trait (unneeded), plus the F2 on Shiro/Mallyx. The bad are the F2 costs and effects on Glint, the loss of vulnerability in Burts of Strength, the loss of stability stacks from Enhanced Bulwark. Other changes are mostly irrelevant or unwelcomed.

 

But the wort part is that Herald was the least part in Rev that needed a rework: core Rev is utterly absent in EVERY game mode, and Renegade is plain trash in two game modes. Changes in shields are a waste: either return ths strong features it has at the HoT release OR give it the capability of moving while blocking; otherwise no one will even touch that weapon again.

 

Already playing gold with Renegade in S13 PvP; is garbage I got bored of Herald and anyway the spec is way too diferent in feeling compared of how worked when wa released. I regret the day I mained this class...