DELETE ALL PASSIVS LIFESAVER

[Math.5123]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > All i can say is none of you passive players would be able to handle none passive players if you were forced to actually hit key's to immune yourselves.

> > > > Just saying, lazy play = lazy players = Not real pros

> > >

> > > This is such a weird argument to me.

> > >

> > > If I make a strategical decision before combat, is it lazy? Or is it strategy?

> >

> > What's strategical on trait's & skill's that proc's with out you even having the need to think about activating them?

> > You know who else does that? Hacker's using bot's & 3rd party programs so they don't have to use any key's on the keyboard themselves. It will run & do it all for them.

> >

>

> Wait, you're equating a trait choice to hacking and/or botting? That's not an argument, that's just absurd.

>

> And yes, it is strategy, because it is a trait __choice__. If you have a problem with it, maybe suggest some better alternative traits, because the other two options in that tier are pretty awful. Alchemy is practically mandatory for engineer in PvP as a defensive line. I haven't seen a viable engineer PvP build that hasn't run it in several years. The two options compared to auto elixir S are pretty pitiful, and with the recent buff to temp invuln skills, they're simply not worthwhile.

 

Only real issue I have with passive S is the Condi immunity buff they have it for no apparent reason. It had counterplay in the way of condition bursting, but they just had to dumb down the game even further.

[alcopaul.2156]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > Engies to much shrunk

> > wars to much endure pain

> >

>

> i agree with you all passive lifesaver should be removed from the game but give them to player who play in unranked for free(buff or something) because here where most play start to learn about PvP

> And that will make ranked more skill base and unranked more of a learning phase

 

it's mimicking the role of white blood cells in combating diseases. you dont have to instruct the white blood cells by pressing buttons to do their job.

[schloumou.3982]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> Only real issue I have with passive S is the Condi immunity buff they have it for no apparent reason. It had counterplay in the way of condition bursting, but they just had to dumb down the game even further.

 

Problem was if you faced condi-dmg this trait actively worked against you. It locked you out of your skills and there was nothing you could do about it besides watching yourself die. But as mentioned the tragedy lies in the traitchoices. Its part of a mandatory Traitline and competing with 2 traits which are so utter garbage that even before the buff in condiheavy metas people chose this instead of having basically nothing at all.

 

 

[Ferus.3165]

DELETE ALL INSTANT CAST ABILITES huwähhhhhh xD

ohh and DELETE ALL INVIS ABILITES and DELETE ALL TELEPORT ABILITES !!!!!!111!!!1

[Tehologist.5841]

I still don't understand what the issue is. You spike them, they go small, either let them run off or wait 3 seconds and finish them. They can't use any skills whatsoever and their is no evade frame at the end. About half the time I am immobilized when it goes off and I just have to sit there and wait to be killed. Other times, I am in the process of hitting my heal button or about to CC and it prevents me. Occasionally I am allowed to run off point and heal, which I could have done much more easily with rifle 5 or holo leap. The only time it is really beneficial is when it happens during a team fight and I can get a free stomp or rez. I am not claiming it is a bad trait that is never useful, I do think it is a trait that is rarely if ever game changing. I would much rather have an auto stun break that allows me to continue using my skills and removes immobilize.

 

It is so much better than it used to be, with the amount of conditions floating around it was a guaranteed death. You would go small, tick down and die almost every time.

[ugrakarma.9416]

remove passives and give teleports, clones, stealth, evades to warrior and engie. or give them the condi AoE spams like scourge.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"alcopaul.2156" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > > Engies to much shrunk

> > > wars to much endure pain

> > >

> >

> > i agree with you all passive lifesaver should be removed from the game but give them to player who play in unranked for free(buff or something) because here where most play start to learn about PvP

> > And that will make ranked more skill base and unranked more of a learning phase

>

> it's mimicking the role of white blood cells in combating diseases. you dont have to instruct the white blood cells by pressing buttons to do their job.

 

LoL

Actually the role of brain cells is to control and regulate most body function . you dont have to instruct the brain cells by pressing buttons to do their job

 

This a game so dont compare it to the perfectly balanced human body

[megilandil.7506]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > All i can say is none of you passive players would be able to handle none passive players if you were forced to actually hit key's to immune yourselves.

> > Just saying, lazy play = lazy players = Not real pros

>

> This is such a weird argument to me.

>

> If I make a strategical decision before combat, is it lazy? Or is it strategy?

 

the arguments are stupid, but those passives are abussive, BUT there are necessary due to bursty stealth characters, if a class (or two) could delete a toon whith a 0.5 sec burst starting from stealth some countermesures have to be added to prevent that imbalancing situation, those measures are passive lifessavers, that become abussive in normal combat.

 

The real problem in this game is bad implementation of stealth and give it to high burst classes. FIX or DELETE stealth and those passives can go also

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"megilandil.7506" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > All i can say is none of you passive players would be able to handle none passive players if you were forced to actually hit key's to immune yourselves.

> > > Just saying, lazy play = lazy players = Not real pros

> >

> > This is such a weird argument to me.

> >

> > If I make a strategical decision before combat, is it lazy? Or is it strategy?

>

> the arguments are stupid, but those passives are abussive, BUT there are necessary due to bursty stealth characters, if a class (or two) could delete a toon whith a 0.5 sec burst starting from stealth some countermesures have to be added to prevent that imbalancing situation, those measures are passive lifessavers, that become abussive in normal combat.

>

> The real problem in this game is bad implementation of stealth and give it to high burst classes. FIX or DELETE stealth and those passives can go also

 

Argument is not stupid. It's just simply put. If passive so abusive but necessary bcuz of bursty stealth characters why delete the chrono bunker for example? Between that & the abusive passives that makes Engy & War tank as much as chrono bunker while dishing out mega damage is broken. This is what this thread is all about.

Balance says you can be tanky with weak damage output. Or you can be squashy but but with large damage output. Or something in between. But you can't be all of them with out breaking up the balance.

[megilandil.7506]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"megilandil.7506" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > All i can say is none of you passive players would be able to handle none passive players if you were forced to actually hit key's to immune yourselves.

> > > > Just saying, lazy play = lazy players = Not real pros

> > >

> > > This is such a weird argument to me.

> > >

> > > If I make a strategical decision before combat, is it lazy? Or is it strategy?

> >

> > the arguments are stupid, but those passives are abussive, BUT there are necessary due to bursty stealth characters, if a class (or two) could delete a toon whith a 0.5 sec burst starting from stealth some countermesures have to be added to prevent that imbalancing situation, those measures are passive lifessavers, that become abussive in normal combat.

> >

> > The real problem in this game is bad implementation of stealth and give it to high burst classes. FIX or DELETE stealth and those passives can go also

>

> Argument is not stupid. It's just simply put. If passive so abusive but necessary bcuz of bursty stealth characters why delete the chrono bunker for example? Between that & the abusive passives that makes Engy & War tank as much as chrono bunker while dishing out mega damage is broken. This is what this thread is all about.

> Balance says you can be tanky with weak damage output. Or you can be squashy but but with large damage output. Or something in between. But you can't be all of them with out breaking up the balance.

 

they dont delete only the chrono bunker, they deleted entire bunker meta, no crhonobunker, no inmortal cele ele, no altruist guardian etc etc

i know about what is the thread, and im with you about those passives, but also i know for what those passives have to be ingame, to remove those passives also the cause they exist have to be solved, if noone can be instadeleted from attacks coming from nowhere those dont need to exist. if they only remove those skills, and they have to be removed, without soklving the stealth high burst problem they will break the game in favor of ganker clowns making unplayable for more than 90% of playerbase

[alcopaul.2156]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"alcopaul.2156" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> > > > Engies to much shrunk

> > > > wars to much endure pain

> > > >

> > >

> > > i agree with you all passive lifesaver should be removed from the game but give them to player who play in unranked for free(buff or something) because here where most play start to learn about PvP

> > > And that will make ranked more skill base and unranked more of a learning phase

> >

> > it's mimicking the role of white blood cells in combating diseases. you dont have to instruct the white blood cells by pressing buttons to do their job.

>

> LoL

> Actually the role of brain cells is to control and regulate most body function . you dont have to instruct the brain cells by pressing buttons to do their job

>

> This a game so dont compare it to the perfectly balanced human body

 

you sure? lel

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Between that & the abusive passives that makes Engy & War tank as much as chrono bunker while dishing out mega damage is broken. This is what this thread is all about.

 

Maybe Defy pain, but without condi or CC immunity Spellbreaker isn't necessarily doing mega damage from defy pain alone. Self-regulating defenses doesn't allow you to dish mega damage either.. it's last ditch turtle mode ?. Super powerful time waster when 4 people are zerging you off point.

 

These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

 

Not all classes can thematically have teleports with a big burst combo. I actually find it entertaining when the meta becomes fast as it is now, and invulns/endures cause tears to fall

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > Between that & the abusive passives that makes Engy & War tank as much as chrono bunker while dishing out mega damage is broken. This is what this thread is all about.

>

> Maybe Defy pain, but without condi or CC immunity Spellbreaker isn't necessarily doing mega damage from defy pain alone. Self-regulating defenses doesn't allow you to dish mega damage either.. it's last ditch turtle mode ?. Super powerful time waster when 4 people are zerging you off point.

>

> These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

>

> Not all classes can thematically have teleports with a big burst combo. I actually find it entertaining when the meta becomes fast as it is now, and invulns/endures cause tears to fall

 

I din't say that spellbreaker is doing mega damage from defy pain. No but if you read threw my quotes, you understand that defy pain let's you tank threw lot's of damage. Thus you can have a more berserker type build to dish out mega damage while being super tanky. Now plz tell me you din't get that the first turn around?

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> Engies to much shrunk

> wars to much endure pain

>

 

Game is overhwelmed with aoe spam and anet does those skills to balance out against the spam.

 

TDLR expect more spam and more invunerabilties, even passive ones.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > Between that & the abusive passives that makes Engy & War tank as much as chrono bunker while dishing out mega damage is broken. This is what this thread is all about.

> >

> > Maybe Defy pain, but without condi or CC immunity Spellbreaker isn't necessarily doing mega damage from defy pain alone. Self-regulating defenses doesn't allow you to dish mega damage either.. it's last ditch turtle mode ?. Super powerful time waster when 4 people are zerging you off point.

> >

> > These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

> >

> > Not all classes can thematically have teleports with a big burst combo. I actually find it entertaining when the meta becomes fast as it is now, and invulns/endures cause tears to fall

>

> I din't say that spellbreaker is doing mega damage from defy pain. No but if you read threw my quotes, you understand that defy pain let's you tank threw lot's of damage. Thus you can have a more berserker type build to dish out mega damage while being super tanky. Now plz tell me you din't get that the first turn around?

 

I get all that. Check how you word it, you actually said that you can use abusive passives to tank like a bunker while dying mega damage, implying simultaneously.

 

I don't think it's any different than saying you can use abusive stealths and teleports up ledges to survive and pump out glass cannon damage. I think it's a bias against less mobile classes.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > Between that & the abusive passives that makes Engy & War tank as much as chrono bunker while dishing out mega damage is broken. This is what this thread is all about.

> > >

> > > Maybe Defy pain, but without condi or CC immunity Spellbreaker isn't necessarily doing mega damage from defy pain alone. Self-regulating defenses doesn't allow you to dish mega damage either.. it's last ditch turtle mode ?. Super powerful time waster when 4 people are zerging you off point.

> > >

> > > These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

> > >

> > > Not all classes can thematically have teleports with a big burst combo. I actually find it entertaining when the meta becomes fast as it is now, and invulns/endures cause tears to fall

> >

> > I din't say that spellbreaker is doing mega damage from defy pain. No but if you read threw my quotes, you understand that defy pain let's you tank threw lot's of damage. Thus you can have a more berserker type build to dish out mega damage while being super tanky. Now plz tell me you din't get that the first turn around?

>

> I get all that. Check how you word it, you actually said that you can use abusive passives to tank like a bunker while dying mega damage, implying simultaneously.

>

Yes, simultaneously is what i was implying. To me it's what makes the classes unbalance. Like i said before, either you can tank hard but low damage, or high damage but be sqweeshy. Or something in the middle. But you can't have it all.

 

& concerning less mobile classes, not sure where your getting at?

 

 

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Yes, simultaneously is what i was implying. To me it's what makes the classes unbalance. Like i said before, either you can tank hard but low damage, or high damage but be sqweeshy. Or something in the middle. But you can't have it all.

>

> & concerning less mobile classes, not sure where your getting at?

 

You don't see how you cannot simultaneously do mega damage and be turtled in Elixir S?? Look up the definition of simultaneously, at least in Engineer's case you are either 'tanking' or doing damage, never both at the same time. Also, no capture point contribution. I'm getting at why complain about Holo/Spellbreaker when mobile classes such as Mirage/Thief just teleport/stealth when focused instead of using endure/invuln procs, to the same effect - they can run glassy builds and avoid death as well.

 

 

[Valik Shin.9027]

So passive life saves are bad? Ok. So is killing a warrior from full health in under a second on then?

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > Yes, simultaneously is what i was implying. To me it's what makes the classes unbalance. Like i said before, either you can tank hard but low damage, or high damage but be sqweeshy. Or something in the middle. But you can't have it all.

> >

> > & concerning less mobile classes, not sure where your getting at?

>

> You don't see how you cannot simultaneously do mega damage and be turtled in Elixir S?? Look up the definition of simultaneously, at least in Engineer's case you are either 'tanking' or doing damage, never both at the same time. Also, no capture point contribution. I'm getting at why complain about Holo/Spellbreaker when mobile classes such as Mirage/Thief just teleport/stealth when focused instead of using endure/invuln procs, to the same effect - they can run glassy builds and avoid death as well.

>

>

 

Oic what you mean. But i meant simultaneously as a tanky & damage build. A build that can not only tank but damage as well. see? Not necessarily need's to do so while invulnerable. Just that you have everything in the build that makes it over the top vs others.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

 

WTB passive invuln for necro. 25k HP Paladins build not enough

 

 

 

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

>

> WTB passive invuln for necro. 25k HP Paladins build not enough

>

>

>

>

 

Use your passive protection and stunbreak at 50%.... It's not an invuln but it'll save your freaking life.....

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

> >

> > WTB passive invuln for necro. 25k HP Paladins build not enough

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Use your passive protection and stunbreak at 50%.... It's not an invuln but it'll save your freaking life.....

 

I wasn't running Soul Reaping because the sustain is too low in normal matchups. Yeah SR reaper is definitely better against a thief where blood magic is useless b/c you can't land hits, but it not going to change the matchup outcome.

 

Really though that video is more of a meme, auto stunbreak wouldn't have mattered since I have no means of recovering from the alpha because I can't heal due to the thief running offhand pistol, and Reaper has no ability to pressure a thief anyways, so the fight is more of question of how quickly I die. The only reason I even was on that node alone was because I assumed that the thief wouldn't be camping it because thieves typically don't camp nodes.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

> > >

> > > WTB passive invuln for necro. 25k HP Paladins build not enough

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Use your passive protection and stunbreak at 50%.... It's not an invuln but it'll save your freaking life.....

>

> I wasn't running Soul Reaping because the sustain is too low in normal matchups. Yeah SR reaper is definitely better against a thief where blood magic is useless b/c you can't land hits, but it not going to change the matchup outcome.

>

> Really though that video is more of a meme, auto stunbreak wouldn't have mattered since I have no means of recovering from the alpha because I can't heal due to the thief running offhand pistol, and Reaper has no ability to pressure a thief anyways, so the fight is more of question of how quickly I die. The only reason I even was on that node alone was because I assumed that the thief wouldn't be camping it because thieves typically don't camp nodes.

 

You could've entered shroud and got all the way to a teammate, definitely, but I agree.. you were clearly 80% meming

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

> > > >

> > > > WTB passive invuln for necro. 25k HP Paladins build not enough

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Use your passive protection and stunbreak at 50%.... It's not an invuln but it'll save your freaking life.....

> >

> > I wasn't running Soul Reaping because the sustain is too low in normal matchups. Yeah SR reaper is definitely better against a thief where blood magic is useless b/c you can't land hits, but it not going to change the matchup outcome.

> >

> > Really though that video is more of a meme, auto stunbreak wouldn't have mattered since I have no means of recovering from the alpha because I can't heal due to the thief running offhand pistol, and Reaper has no ability to pressure a thief anyways, so the fight is more of question of how quickly I die. The only reason I even was on that node alone was because I assumed that the thief wouldn't be camping it because thieves typically don't camp nodes.

>

> You could've entered shroud and got all the way to a teammate, definitely, but I agree.. you were clearly 80% meming

 

Shroud was on cd from where I used it to rotate. The thief killed me 100->0 within the 10s cooldown. Also this was Capricorn, so it's debatable if I could have reached a teammate even with shroud due to how enormous the distances are that I would have to cover.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > > These passives do something to shutdown zerging/snowballs and one-shot builds success rate, two things I'm happy aren't any more prevalent.

> > > > >

> > > > > WTB passive invuln for necro. 25k HP Paladins build not enough

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Use your passive protection and stunbreak at 50%.... It's not an invuln but it'll save your freaking life.....

> > >

> > > I wasn't running Soul Reaping because the sustain is too low in normal matchups. Yeah SR reaper is definitely better against a thief where blood magic is useless b/c you can't land hits, but it not going to change the matchup outcome.

> > >

> > > Really though that video is more of a meme, auto stunbreak wouldn't have mattered since I have no means of recovering from the alpha because I can't heal due to the thief running offhand pistol, and Reaper has no ability to pressure a thief anyways, so the fight is more of question of how quickly I die. The only reason I even was on that node alone was because I assumed that the thief wouldn't be camping it because thieves typically don't camp nodes.

> >

> > You could've entered shroud and got all the way to a teammate, definitely, but I agree.. you were clearly 80% meming

>

> Shroud was on cd from where I used it to rotate. The thief killed me 100->0 within the 10s cooldown. Also this was Capricorn, so it's debatable if I could have reached a teammate even with shroud due to how enormous the distances are that I would have to cover.

 

I meant if you had your passive.