[Suggestion]New Raid Type: Open World Like 10-Man Instance

[The Ace.9105]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> with just a minority of players actually playing raids, you really think they need to waste even more resources on raids that can be used on stuff the majority would like?

 

But this types of raids would open the raids for more people because it wouldn't just be only boss rushes. There could be a split team that for example doesn't do any bosses but completes only the events so that the main team can then clear the boss fights for example.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > with just a minority of players actually playing raids, you really think they need to waste even more resources on raids that can be used on stuff the majority would like?

>

> But this types of raids would open the raids for more people because it wouldn't just be only boss rushes. There could be a split team that for example doesn't do any bosses but completes only the events so that the main team can then clear the boss fights for example.

 

one problem, the ever curse of the DPS meter.

also, i would rather like some big open world events that requires ppl to use the entire map to take out a boss instead of just a boss to DPS the crap out of it.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

There are three ways to implement something like this:

* Use existing open world maps, e.g. 10 people complete Silverwastes or save Tarir

* Use existing maps, but populate them with new events and rewards.

* Create new maps, more expansive than the arena-sized areas we see now.

 

The second and the third are very costly. New maps is among the major expenses of Living World. So where are the resources to pay for this going to come from? What plans should ANet cancel so that there are enough people to do this? Would most raiders prefer something like what the OP proposed to the current style of raids? That doesn't seem likely to me.

 

The first approach also seems unlikely. Why would ANet want to divert population from existing maps?

 

Fissure of Woe and Underworld were definitely fun aspects of GW1. I'm not sure there's a place for them in this game.

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> There are three ways to implement something like this:

> * Use existing open world maps, e.g. 10 people complete Silverwastes or save Tarir

> * Use existing maps, but populate them with new events and rewards.

> * Create new maps, more expansive than the arena-sized areas we see now.

>

> The second and the third are very costly. New maps is among the major expenses of Living World. So where are the resources to pay for this going to come from? What plans should ANet cancel so that there are enough people to do this? Would most raiders prefer something like what the OP proposed to the current style of raids? That doesn't seem likely to me.

>

> The first approach also seems unlikely. Why would ANet want to divert population from existing maps?

>

> Fissure of Woe and Underworld were definitely fun aspects of GW1. I'm not sure there's a place for them in this game.

 

I am sure that if anet just would design the raid well, ppl would love it. We are already at a point where some people basically wait for raid wing to get released, then clear it once and afk the rest of the time until next raid. The passion for clearing boss rush type of raids is already fading and ppl just run raids over and over again while they wait for the next which is then cleared day 1 because it's the same as the others basically.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> I am sure that if anet just would design the raid well, ppl would love it. We are already at a point where some people basically wait for raid wing to get released, then clear it once and afk the rest of the time until next raid. The passion for clearing boss rush type of raids is already fading and ppl just run it casually.

 

To "design the raid well" take time and people. Where would that come from? What current projects should be cancelled to pay for this? Surely you don't mean that it should replace the existing raids already designed and starting to be rendered and tested. And if it uses the raid team, how do they release more raids in the same amount of time, without more resources?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> Also I believe that the events would become more exciting with this kind of raid when the events have more meaning and not just waste your time till boss.

 

What kind of meaning would these events have other than waste your time until the boss? The "quests" in fow and uw were also only there to waste your time because their vast majority was painfully easy. Especially fow had no challenge whatsoever. What's the difference between having to finish an event in order to finish a boss, and having to finish Spirit Woods before fighting Gorseval or Twisted Castle before fighting Xera? It's really the same kind thing that is only there to waste your time. Sure, in small bursts they can be enjoyable and tell a story (like Twisted Castle), or simply be there as a pre-event for a boss, like killing the adds before Matthias, but overall having many of these in a Raid slows down the encounters.

 

There is a reason lengthy "events" stopped after Wing 1, because nobody liked that Spirit Woods is taking so long to finish. We've also seen this in the past with dungeons. Those little extra events that nearly every team skips. These kinds of events will either be skipped entirely or anger players as they prevent them from engaging the boss they want and wasting their time.

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > I am sure that if anet just would design the raid well, ppl would love it. We are already at a point where some people basically wait for raid wing to get released, then clear it once and afk the rest of the time until next raid. The passion for clearing boss rush type of raids is already fading and ppl just run it casually.

>

> To "design the raid well" take time and people. Where would that come from? What current projects should be cancelled to pay for this? Surely you don't mean that it should replace the existing raids already designed and starting to be rendered and tested. And if it uses the raid team, how do they release more raids in the same amount of time, without more resources?

 

Okay, fine. Let's not change anything or do anything new. Let's keep this familiar and safe thing forever. Amen!

 

Was pretty brave to add content besides open world and dungeons after launch.

[The Ace.9105]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > Also I believe that the events would become more exciting with this kind of raid when the events have more meaning and not just waste your time till boss.

>

> What kind of meaning would these events have other than waste your time until the boss? The "quests" in fow and uw were also only there to waste your time because their vast majority was painfully easy. Especially fow had no challenge whatsoever. What's the difference between having to finish an event in order to finish a boss, and having to finish Spirit Woods before fighting Gorseval or Twisted Castle before fighting Xera? It's really the same kind thing that is only there to waste your time. Sure, in small bursts they can be enjoyable and tell a story (like Twisted Castle), or simply be there as a pre-event for a boss, like killing the adds before Matthias, but overall having many of these in a Raid slows down the encounters.

>

> There is a reason lengthy "events" stopped after Wing 1, because nobody liked that Spirit Woods is taking so long to finish. We've also seen this in the past with dungeons. Those little extra events that nearly every team skips. These kinds of events will either be skipped entirely or anger players as they prevent them from engaging the boss they want and wasting their time.

 

I honestly don't know how you could improve this game anymore. Only new things we get is open world, raids and fractals. Idk, maybe just keep things the same till the game dies cause nobody apparently wants anything new.

 

New fractals already cycle textures and models, maybe we can have new raid with different color vale guardians etc.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> I honestly don't know how you could improve this game anymore. Only new things we get is open world, raids and fractals. Idk, maybe just keep things the same till the game dies cause nobody apparently wants anything new.

>

> New fractals already cycle textures and models, maybe we can have new raid with different color vale guardians etc.

 

How to improve the game? Simple, by making sure the newer Fractals, Raids and open world maps more enjoyable and exciting to play. Further, I, and most other players, expect many new things to come in the game: New elite specs, new mounts, new mastery abilities, something resembling housing (coming in the next episode) and I'm sure a lot more **new** things will be coming to the game in the future. It's not about not wanting anything new, it's about a suggestion that goes against current design on so many levels. Including what I mentioned on my above post about Raids moving away of locking bosses behind lengthy events (because we can all assume players didn't like it), while you are asking to lock more bosses behind more events...

[Xolas.9781]

So many people in this topic that haven't played Guild Wars 1 and have no clue what TC is talking about.

 

I'm sorry TC, but the casual GW2 audience is going to have no clue what you're trying to promote.

[Halandir.3609]

> @"Xolas.9781" said:

> So many people in this topic that haven't played Guild Wars 1 and have no clue what TC is talking about.

>

> I'm sorry TC, but the casual GW2 audience is going to have no clue what you're trying to promote.

 

There was no "1" in "Guild Wars" and while FoW/UW stayed popular (mostly because of ecto and obsidian shards) what OP calls "endgame" moved from FoW/UW over Sorrows Furnace to Urgoz's Warren, The Deep and eventually ended in DoA.

 

A lot of casuals (possibly the majority?) including me enjoyed those!

 

GW2 raids are a different beast: Casuals help foot the bill but most are excluded from the content they helped pay for.... But, hey: Call me an unknowing casual - I just won't pay 100% of the price for content designed for 5-10% of the players!

 

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Actually I don't mind having 10 men content for Season 1 Scarlet War. Some of its mechanics are rather hard for 5 men fractal to implement (eg. Battle of Lion's Arch or Marrionette) so having 10 men has a bit more wiggle room for toning down difficulty without functional changes.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I suggested a long time ago that they designed maps to serve dual function. They could design full size maps with a flow thru it for raids; release them in advance as raid maps by a couple of months and they could obscure the map with weather effects like fog, storms, snow fog, etc. The raid would follow an instance zoned along the specific area of the map. It would world best if they did it with wild maps where the raid party does the story plus lead a NPC techs to install waypoints, vendors, etc after the section is cleared.

 

A good example is part of the personal story where the Pale Tree gives the commander a vision of Orr. It's all fogged up in the vision making it hard to get an idea of the terrain. If they did every other Living World map that way they could crank out a lot more raids and non-raiders would be able to access the map from a post-raid perspective. It's not a LW map but imagine if Verdant Brink was a dual raid/open world map. The players as part of an elite PACT strike team got to do raids from the time point between when the airships crashed and the open world players entered it. Heavy smoke and fires would obscure the raiders from seeing all the map.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Xolas.9781" said:

> So many people in this topic that haven't played Guild Wars 1 and have no clue what TC is talking about.

>

> I'm sorry TC, but the casual GW2 audience is going to have no clue what you're trying to promote.

 

You know which game gave up on the design of "splitting to do multiple quests at once"? Guild Wars 1. Outside Fissure of Woe and Underworld this concept was abandoned on all future end-game maps. The Deep, Urgoz Warren, every single Eye of the North dungeon do not follow the pattern of those anymore. They are straightforward dungeon crawlers, much like Dungeons, Fractals and Raids in Guild Wars 2.

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Xolas.9781" said:

> So many people in this topic that haven't played Guild Wars 1 and have no clue what TC is talking about.

>

> I'm sorry TC, but the casual GW2 audience is going to have no clue what you're trying to promote.

 

Yeah I am starting to notice that sadly people have no idea how great this would be in gw2. This could be a raid around the next xpac or raid after that even but it seems like that people want the same content we have always had just to complete it with new skills, mounts and skins.

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Tekoneiric.6817" said:

> I suggested a long time ago that they designed maps to serve dual function. They could design full size maps with a flow thru it for raids; release them in advance as raid maps by a couple of months and they could obscure the map with weather effects like fog, storms, snow fog, etc. The raid would follow an instance zoned along the specific area of the map. It would world best if they did it with wild maps where the raid party does the story plus lead a NPC techs to install waypoints, vendors, etc after the section is cleared.

>

> A good example is part of the personal story where the Pale Tree gives the commander a vision of Orr. It's all fogged up in the vision making it hard to get an idea of the terrain. If they did every other Living World map that way they could crank out a lot more raids and non-raiders would be able to access the map from a post-raid perspective. It's not a LW map but imagine if Verdant Brink was a dual raid/open world map. The players as part of an elite PACT strike team got to do raids from the time point between when the airships crashed and the open world players entered it. Heavy smoke and fires would obscure the raiders from seeing all the map.

 

Interesting idea.

[Kumouta.4985]

like a dungeon but with a place on the map and actual difficulty?

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Kumouta.4985" said:

> like a dungeon but with a place on the map and actual difficulty?

 

Like a dungeon that's the size of the whole map.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> So you just want an instance that feels like an open world event.

>

> Why waste time on that instead of just making it A open world event where everyone can participate?

 

Because usually those are dead in a week. Meanwhile ppl are still doing the endgame areas in gw1.

[zealex.9410]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Xolas.9781" said:

> > So many people in this topic that haven't played Guild Wars 1 and have no clue what TC is talking about.

> >

> > I'm sorry TC, but the casual GW2 audience is going to have no clue what you're trying to promote.

>

> You know which game gave up on the design of "splitting to do multiple quests at once"? Guild Wars 1. Outside Fissure of Woe and Underworld this concept was abandoned on all future end-game maps. The Deep, Urgoz Warren, every single Eye of the North dungeon do not follow the pattern of those anymore. They are straightforward dungeon crawlers, much like Dungeons, Fractals and Raids in Guild Wars 2.

 

In uw you were(maybe still are) heavily incenitvised to split the raid group to kill the 2 event bosses.

 

But spliting for events isnt the only thing they can take from gw1. Just the openess and freedom to tackle any encounter and whatever order is another option.

[sorudo.9054]

you do know GW doesn't have raids at all right?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> In uw you were(maybe still are) heavily incenitvised to split the raid group to kill the 2 event bosses.

>

> But spliting for events isnt the only thing they can take from gw1. Just the openess and freedom to tackle any encounter and whatever order is another option.

 

Underworld and Fissure of Woe were released in 2005 together with the release of Guild Wars 1. From then on, Factions, Nightfall and Eye of the North went away of the incentive to split and instead gave us more traditional dungeons/instances. The concept died in 2005, and never used again in GW1, maybe there is a reason for that, ever thought about it?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > So you just want an instance that feels like an open world event.

> >

> > Why waste time on that instead of just making it A open world event where everyone can participate?

>

> Because usually those are dead in a week. Meanwhile ppl are still doing the endgame areas in gw1.

 

From last I played GW1, those "endgame areas" are the only way to get Obsidian armor, plus Globs of Ectoplasm (which are quite expensive materials). Add Legendary Insights to Serpent's Ire and watch as it becomes the most populated event in GW2. Further, in such an instanced heavy game like GW1, how do you know which content is done by most people?

[Dragon.3120]

W3 b1 called Escort is alrdy that type. W5 b2 River is alrdy that type of raid. GG

 

And if u are looking for a Raid type open world event the three headed worm (Tripple trouble) is ur friend.

[Dragon.3120]

The entire problem with raids in GW2 is. That u can nearly finish every event in open world with any kind of exotics and auto attck, and still gain ur reward. Then u join alike the raid and fail!!!!

 

U need the proper equipment and team coordination. Then raids are pretty easy like the elite missions in gw1. Imagine u go out into DOA maps with a team that does not have Lightbringer titel on. ANd they dont know to pull and rush in and die. They dont have the proper skills to buff and debuff in DOA. ANd the proper skills to deal dmg. Thats what new players in Raids do. Cause thats what they have seen in open world of gw2.