Episode 4: thread for spoilers and comments.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> I don’t know why people endlessly insist that the plot is gonna end and GW3 is coming. Games don’t really do constant sequels anymore, AAA games just update forever. There was even an interview for the 6th anniversary where someone asked where they see GW2 in another 6 years and they said they want it to be doing the same thing it is now, releasing good updates often. There is no end in sight

 

a _"big reset"_(can be Gw3, or a city destroyed "i wanna see DR destroyed", or a big reveal "Jenna is Lyssa") is a common wishful thinking in Gw2 players. Since, im a older gamer(im 36) i really dont know why the new gamers generation are so addicted to this.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

The thing for me about GW2 "lasting 6 years" with frequent updates is that ArenaNet has been seemingly obsessed with upping the previous plot. It's hard to keep doing that. Just look at the Dragonball Franchise. When DBZ ends with the threat wiping out humanity (just to undo) and threatening the gods of the universe, they moved onto threats to the multiverse with Super.

 

Season 3 brought the plot to "threatening the world", and we've one-on-one fallen gods. Now we're going against a threat to all reality. _How_ do you keep topping that?

 

I just don't see them being able to keep topping the plot, and it's gotten to the point where it seems silly that we're having troubles fighting normal people. Starting out with world threatening eldritch abomination forces and killing one outright really seems like a bad idea in hindsight.

 

A "Guild Wars 3" (if they even continue the franchise) would be a way to reset that. The only other way would really be to eliminate our power sources. And since the Commander has plot armor, that means crippling/killing allies, which is already overdone.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> The thing for me about GW2 "lasting 6 years" with frequent updates is that ArenaNet has been seemingly obsessed with upping the previous plot. It's hard to keep doing that. Just look at the Dragonball Franchise. When DBZ ends with the threat wiping out humanity (just to undo) and threatening the gods of the universe, they moved onto threats to the multiverse with Super.

>

> Season 3 brought the plot to "threatening the world", and we've one-on-one fallen gods. Now we're going against a threat to all reality. _How_ do you keep topping that?

>

> I just don't see them being able to keep topping the plot, and it's gotten to the point where it seems silly that we're having troubles fighting normal people. Starting out with world threatening eldritch abomination forces and killing one outright really seems like a bad idea in hindsight.

>

> A "Guild Wars 3" (if they even continue the franchise) would be a way to reset that. The only other way would really be to eliminate our power sources. And since the Commander has plot armor, that means crippling/killing allies, which is already overdone.

 

Don't need to keep one upping previous plots to keep going.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> Don't need to keep one upping previous plots to keep going.

 

In general, no. But they've done that to the point that, as I said, there's no real threat to the Commander in a normal enemy at this point.

 

We've slain an eldritch horror older than mortal comprehension in its mind. We've one-on-one'd a fallen god. And now we're taking on a being capable of ripping reality in half.

 

If we had fought Caudecus after Kralkatorrik, he would have been a laughing stalk, even with him being able to tear a kingdom into civil war. Which brings up the only real plot that ArenaNet can pull since the Commander has very obvious plot armor that they cannot bring their mortality into question: political strife. But we've done that thrice now (sylvari disdain, Krytan civil war, Awakened aftermath), and all while Anet has improved in telling such each time, they're not good enough to make it the center of a longstanding plot.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Castigator.3470" said:

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > They will move away from killing Elder Dragons when there are no more left we kill. Even if we replace Kralaktorik this season that still leaves Jormag, Primordus, and bubbles.

> I suppose we could have a chat with Bubbles. Maybe Steve is actually quite nice, except to quaggan and krait. Primordus seems a bit like a hermit, if his minions are anything to go by, then Primordus is not a people person, eh dragon. Maybe he'll talk to Aurene?

 

It's actually ambiguous if Bubbles even acted directly against the quaggans. The krait got displaced, and it was the displaced krait that made refugees of the quaggans.> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> Not to mention, leaving them alive would be Anet saying that they don't care about any of the plot threads they have established. Jormag and Primordus being asleep isn't a victory for the Pact, or the 5 races, since they will wake up at some point, and try this crap all over again. If you have the alliance to take them down now, why wouldn't you do it? Especially since they are asleep, and thus vulnerable, giving you a great edge in fighting them. Not to mention, it would be basically throwing Glint's entire plan, and the whole point of everything we have done with Aurene, out the window. You aren't ending the Elder Dragons cycle of destruction and power hoarding by leaving them alive. Replacing one of them isn't a solution to the problem, its just the start of fixing it.

 

Not necessarily, actually. If the rest of the All was sufficiently regulated, the level of magic could be kept at a point just below what it would take to wake Primordus and Jormag back up again. It might be a lesser victory than actually killing them off, but the Elder Dragons seem to be pretty much invulnerable when they're sleeping from what we've seen thus far, and waking them up might be taking too much of a risk... especially if we don't have a suitable replacement vessel handy (we've only got one living scion of Glint, there's no sign of Shiny... enlisting Kuunavang might prove to be the goal of travelling to Cantha if we end up doing that). This approach would always carry the risk that at some point in the future they'll wake up and cause trouble, but that might still be less of a risk than deliberately waking them up in order to fight them. Sometimes, it's better to let sleeping dragons lie.

 

That said, my prediction is that we _will_ end up killing them sooner or later. However, I don't think it would necessarily be bad storytelling to leave that sealed evil in the can for now.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> It's actually ambiguous if Bubbles even acted directly against the quaggans. The krait got displaced, and it was the displaced krait that made refugees of the quaggans.

 

Depending on your source. The blog posts said krait pushed quaggans to the shorelines, but [this NPC](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bullablopp) talks as if the quaggans ran into the krait *after* fleeing, and fleeing due to dragons.

 

Of course, this could just be a round about way to say "the quaggans were pushed out by the dragons by proxy of the krait and the krait have been the worse enemy since arriving at the shoreline".

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > Don't need to keep one upping previous plots to keep going.

>

> In general, no. But they've done that to the point that, as I said, there's no real threat to the Commander in a normal enemy at this point.

>

> We've slain an eldritch horror older than mortal comprehension in its mind. We've one-on-one'd a fallen god. And now we're taking on a being capable of ripping reality in half.

>

> If we had fought Caudecus after Kralkatorrik, he would have been a laughing stalk, even with him being able to tear a kingdom into civil war. Which brings up the only real plot that ArenaNet can pull since the Commander has very obvious plot armor that they cannot bring their mortality into question: political strife. But we've done that thrice now (sylvari disdain, Krytan civil war, Awakened aftermath), and all while Anet has improved in telling such each time, they're not good enough to make it the center of a longstanding plot.

 

Stuff doesn't have to be only a physical threat, and even then story wise we defeated mordremoth by finding his weakness and Balthazar with a macguffin. We're not "going up in power level", just finding new solutions to defeat specific enemies.

 

So no, there is no actual need for serial escalation.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> The thing for me about GW2 "lasting 6 years" with frequent updates is that ArenaNet has been seemingly obsessed with upping the previous plot. It's hard to keep doing that. Just look at the Dragonball Franchise. When DBZ ends with the threat wiping out humanity (just to undo) and threatening the gods of the universe, they moved onto threats to the multiverse with Super.

>

> Season 3 brought the plot to "threatening the world", and we've one-on-one fallen gods. Now we're going against a threat to all reality. _How_ do you keep topping that?

You don't need to. The next Dragon Ball villain is going to be Broly, who has been stated to be weaker the Jiren from Super, but hes still a threat because the only way Goku was really able to get Jiren to a point that he could be beaten was with Ultra Instinct, a state of being he cant access on his own. You don't necessarily need to make enemies stronger, you just need to make them more difficult to beat in some way. That is USUALLY handled via pure strength, but Guild Wars 2 is a game built on mcguffins. They just need to make more complex mcguffins necessary to beat the dragons.

 

Think about Primordus, he appears to be a literal giant ball of magma. How do you put a tracker on magma without it melting? How do you attack something that is basically a giant ball of quasi-liquid that can likely turn into just pure magma? The magic beam of Taimi's machine only really worked because she had the core of Omadd's Machine, something even she admits she has no idea how it works. All of the Pact's currently existing tech, the airships, the subs, the tanks, the laser weapons, basically useless against Primordus. Especially since hes underground, which means most of the Pact's arsenal couldn't even get to where his main force likely is to begin with.

 

Jormag his is own problems as well. In our fights against Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Kralkatorrik, we have largely been able to walk around their corruption with little problems beyond getting zapped by some lightning in some parts of the Brand. Jormag on the other hand has powers over ice and cold that's so... well.... cold, not even the Norn could survive without magical protection, as seen in "The Bitter Cold" in Bitterfrost Frontier. Imagine a whole wasteland of the Far Shiverpeaks being this bitter cold where nothing could survive without some big magical protection.

 

Jormag and Primordus don't necessarily need to be stronger then Kralkatorrik, they just need to be far more difficult to reach or defeat. I could easily see their expansion being about more "survival" elements, though I don't really think that is the best word for it per say, as the big new feature mechanic after gliders, and mounts.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

One thing I just realized.

 

We have seen both Eir and Snaff as ghosts in this episode, and both Rytlock and Caithe are in Elona in the flesh, and Pact soldiers in the base in Jahai Bluffs mention the possibly that Logan was going to show up, but wasn't quite ready for it. Could we possibly see both Logan and Zojja show up, and then we have them all come back together when we fight Kralkatorrik?

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > I don’t know why people endlessly insist that the plot is gonna end and GW3 is coming. Games don’t really do constant sequels anymore, AAA games just update forever. There was even an interview for the 6th anniversary where someone asked where they see GW2 in another 6 years and they said they want it to be doing the same thing it is now, releasing good updates often. There is no end in sight

> So much this.

>

> Hell, Star Trek Online is over 8.5 years old, MUCH less successful then GW2 is, and they are coming out with their FIFTH expansion this October, with plans for even more content after that. Unless Anet pulls the plug themselves, Gw2 will likely still be active in another 6 years. You have to tank a game pretty hard for it to be canned in this day and age.

>

>

 

Even Lotro is still going with content and expansions after the Ring is destroyed.

 

Back on point, I don't see the ED plot coming to a head anytime soon. I could see a new direction for the story as maybe a soft reset, but despite the feeling for me this current storyline doesn't really gel or fit the GW franchise, I think there is plenty of mileage they will be able to get out of the current direction. I remain unconvinced the DSD is imminent though. If they ever bring it into play, they will keep its mystery going for as long as possible.

 

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> One thing I just realized.

>

> We have seen both Eir and Snaff as ghosts in this episode, and both Rytlock and Caithe are in Elona in the flesh, and Pact soldiers in the base in Jahai Bluffs mention the possibly that Logan was going to show up, but wasn't quite ready for it. Could we possibly see both Logan and Zojja show up, and then we have them all come back together when we fight Kralkatorrik?

 

Yes that would be a rather neat and natural tying up of the Destinys Edge story

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > I don’t know why people endlessly insist that the plot is gonna end and GW3 is coming. Games don’t really do constant sequels anymore, AAA games just update forever. There was even an interview for the 6th anniversary where someone asked where they see GW2 in another 6 years and they said they want it to be doing the same thing it is now, releasing good updates often. There is no end in sight

> > So much this.

> >

> > Hell, Star Trek Online is over 8.5 years old, MUCH less successful then GW2 is, and they are coming out with their FIFTH expansion this October, with plans for even more content after that. Unless Anet pulls the plug themselves, Gw2 will likely still be active in another 6 years. You have to tank a game pretty hard for it to be canned in this day and age.

> >

> >

>

> Even Lotro is still going with content and expansions after the Ring is destroyed.

>

> Back on point, I don't see the ED plot coming to a head anytime soon. I could see a new direction for the story as maybe a soft reset, but despite the feeling for me this current storyline doesn't really gel or fit the GW franchise, I think there is plenty of mileage they will be able to get out of the current direction. I remain unconvinced the DSD is imminent though. If they ever bring it into play, they will keep its mystery going for as long as possible.

>

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > One thing I just realized.

> >

> > We have seen both Eir and Snaff as ghosts in this episode, and both Rytlock and Caithe are in Elona in the flesh, and Pact soldiers in the base in Jahai Bluffs mention the possibly that Logan was going to show up, but wasn't quite ready for it. Could we possibly see both Logan and Zojja show up, and then we have them all come back together when we fight Kralkatorrik?

>

> Yes that would be a rather neat and natural tying up of the Destinys Edge story

 

 

Yes, I see each ED getting its own expansion still

[JTHMRulez.9378]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> One thing I just realized.

>

> We have seen both Eir and Snaff as ghosts in this episode, and both Rytlock and Caithe are in Elona in the flesh, and Pact soldiers in the base in Jahai Bluffs mention the possibly that Logan was going to show up, but wasn't quite ready for it. Could we possibly see both Logan and Zojja show up, and then we have them all come back together when we fight Kralkatorrik?

 

The idea of a Destiny's Edge last reunion to finally slay Kralkatorrik is so much yes from me. Also, we would get a proper goodbye to Eir as well. Since her death in Heart of Thorns was pretty rushed.