FaboBabo.3581 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Cristalyan.5728" said: > > @"FaboBabo.3581" said: > > > The thing you dont get is following ; They are still avaible , which means either following > > 1: Everyone who wanted the armor has it allready > > 2: The ones that still want the armor dont have enough Gold. > > > > -> Once the item cant be obtained by TP it's going to be problematic. > > > > Farming something over Charakter Leveling is kind off a common strategy right now. > > Material for Legy / Black Lion Keys + anything i dont know about. > > > > > > Btw ; i had one sigil on one of my alts , guess what i did ? > > I insta sold it. This won't count to those 50 avaible sigils. > > Why i insta sold ? I knew about situation and wanted to make one guy happy + i wanted some fast gold. > > > > > > > > Wow you reported THAT ?! > > That's not even rude.... > > > > "wow , who cares farm gold and gg? > > > > Everything has a price and in GW2 actually the Players , may help deciding about it. > > > > If u need a lot of old for your goals, you got a lot of Work." > > 1. **The thing you dont get is following ; They are still avaible , which means either following**. Last time when I checked, the Invisible shoes were still available on the TP. And this raises some questions regarding your justification: "The ones that still want the armor dont have enough Gold." - what was the reason to push the prices in order to have so many players not willing to invest so much gold for such a common achievement? Again, it seems that not the fact the item is on the TP is the issue. The issue is related with the reason the price is so high. > 2. **Farming something over Charakter Leveling is kind off a common strategy right now. Material for Legy / Black Lion Keys + anything i dont know about.** > LOL!! You try to put an equal sign between this armor and a legendary armor/weapon? Are you really serious? And, for BL keys you can do it and to stop after 2-3-10. But for this achievement you need 25. That means raising 25 characters to the level needed for the Sigil. With what continuation? Delete the character and create another. Again, are you serious? BTW - for the BL keys, you can do it once per week. In less than 15 minutes. I don't consider this farming - this is much more as a change of gameplay. > 3. You sold ONE Sigil. Why you don't sold 25? To be sure you truly helped ONE player to have the achievement? But, contrary with what you believe, this did not make that guy **happy**. He only bought the item. Well, not many players want to do that - aka to pay no matter how much for an achievement. As you observe, I use the word "achievement". The armor itself is not so important. > 4. Again - the farming is not something advertised by this game. If you want to farm so badly, I think this is not a game for you. > 5. **If u need a lot of old for your goals, you got a lot of Work** - this is priceless =). If I perform a lot of work, I expect a lot of **real money** as reward. I don't think I'm insane if I consider some pixels (even in a form of "lot of gold") to not be be a proper reward for a lot of **work**. I don't want to be rude, but if you have the proper age, try to find a job. You will see that for your work you usually expect a different thing that some ingame gold. And if you don't have the legal age for a job, then try to not use the word "work" when you try to lecture us. Lol 1. So again Price is the issue ; work (ingame) for your goals is my answer 2. You could still buy em on TP instead of farming ;) 3. I dont have 25 of them , if i hads somewhere I'd probably sell em. If that guy isnt happy he saved 3 g or something , well than it's still k for me. 4. You dont even need to "farm" in reality. Do your dailies etc. and dont spend randomely gold and u'll have it in like 7 days or something? 5. There is in game work , and there is real life work. Then there is private work for your own, which won't give u any money, am i right? Not any kind of work a human is doing rewards with money. This is a very narrow-minded statement. Ur not doing work in relationships? Ur not doing work for ur own when moving to a new house? Jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Then you are just exceptional They're really not though. You've just chosen to blind yourself to anyone who possesses any motives other than your own . . . > and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player. You're just confused here, which I suppose is unsurprising, considering. The number of ppl in the world who legitimately do not enjoy screwing other ppl over is not small. It's not a protest, it's an actually unpleasant thing to be associated with and does in fact run contrary to the original principles of the game though ofc it's possible those may have changed . . . > I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways. I am unable to see the relevance of this to the issue at hand . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > This line of argument doesn't really work for you ... because these people have given up on this content for one reason; gold. Not because it's hard, or because it's a boring grind, but because of gold. You aren't ever going to sell the idea to any reasonable player that Anet shouldn't be doing content like this because people aren't willing to spend the gold to do it. I mean, you can make that argument about ANY content that requires someone to spend some gold to get an item ... this isn't a new approach for the game and it won't be the last. > > It's also worth noting that in this discussion, you have severely blurred any boundaries that exist for the purpose of content. There is a big difference between people choosing to exclude themselves from content vs. people that can't or struggle to do content. Blurring those lines, then accusing Anet of making self-excluded content inaccessible to people is dishonest. EVERYONE has access to complete the Requim armor quest who has PoF. It's simply not honest to present this like the people 'can't complete it because it's unfair, or access to sigils (which have always been accessible, to the CREDIT of the people that are flipping them). > > > > Again your argument centres around price being the issue... it would not matter if the sigil cost 20gold or 2 silver the fact remains players are unable to complete the set when they want because there is insufficient numbers in the market and no viable way to stimulate supply outside of luck pools. Perhaps if the sigil price had not changed from pre release value you would have less room to manoeuvre your defence of such a poor content design decision. Starving supply is nothing more than the control mechanism to help keep an artificially inflated market price stay inflated as long as possible and slowing completion rate of the set by way of unfairly limiting the number of players able to go to this free market and obtain enough sigil whenever they choose at whatever price it may cost them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > there is insufficient numbers in the market and That's true, but misleading. The numbers in the market are the tip of the iceberg in terms of global supply. The number sold in the market isn't sufficient to explain the number of people who have completed the collection. > no viable way to stimulate supply outside of luck pools. Again true and again misleading. There's literally no supply of a lot of things, outside of luck pools. For example, the budget power rune, [strength](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Strength) has a nearly identical luck pool as the Nullification sigil (that is: various pieces of gear that drop randomly from various sources), plus forging major/rare upgrade items. And yet historically, Strength runes run cheaper than Scholar, despite the latter having a non-random recipe. (To be fair, the recipe depends on a historically pricey material.) What people keep forgetting is that we ended up with 25k Nullifications on the TP while it was vendor trash. Even as many were selling it to merchants, some were listing it against all odds that it would increase in value. **** I'll make the same disclaimer I've made before: I'm not defending ANet's choice to use this particular sigil, nor their decision to not comment on the impact it's had on the economy. I just want to make sure we're basing the discussion on things we can actually establish as facts and avoid borrowing trouble or overhyping to make a point. To me, the _only_ important issue is: people are frustrated at what should have been the capstone of an otherwise incredible story. We got two different armor sets, without having to spend a gem, as part of a popular story set in a popular map. That should have been cause for celebration. Instead it's been a source of rancor and anger. Ultimately, it doesn't matter in the least _why_ the sigils cost a lot on the TP nor whether anyone can obtain all they want when they want them. Folks who aren't economists just see that they don't have any choice except to buy from the TP, at a price that seems crazy high compared to similar items. ANet's great at figuring out the numbers and I think it's usually safe to presume that they know better than we do about the size of faucets, can predict demand better than we can, and can anticipate market values more accurately. Where they tend to miss the boat: forgetting that most players don't care about the math; they just care that there's something in their way. tl;dr ANet builds a great new pistol and then shoots themself in the foot with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabansky.9160 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > We got two different armor sets, without having to spend a gem, as part of a popular story set in a popular map. That should have been cause for celebration. Well isn't it ironic how buying gemstore armor with gold actually turned out being cheaper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabansky.9160 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64. Doesn't that scream bad design on Anet's part though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > no viable way to stimulate supply outside of luck pools. > Again true and again misleading. There's literally no supply of a lot of things, outside of luck pools. For example, the budget power rune, [strength](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Strength) has a nearly identical luck pool as the Nullification sigil (that is: various pieces of gear that drop randomly from various sources), plus forging major/rare upgrade items. And yet historically, Strength runes run cheaper than Scholar, despite the latter having a non-random recipe. (To be fair, the recipe depends on a historically pricey material.) That is also misleading, because the luck pool _isn't_ identical. I am salvaging almost every exotic i get, and i keep all the runes and sigils in bank - i do not vendor them. And yet, after playing since the beginning, i've had only 7 sigils of Nullification. I also had like ten times more runes of strength, even though (unlike with Nullification) i _have_ been using those for many builds i had in the past, and even sold some. Seriously, i even have more unused Sigils of _Force_. I didn't need to check the price on TP in the beginning, i already knew there were going to be major problems the moment i checked my bank and realized how few of those i had. > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > To me, the _only_ important issue is: people are frustrated at what should have been the capstone of an otherwise incredible story. We got two different armor sets, without having to spend a gem, as part of a popular story set in a popular map. That should have been cause for celebration. > > Instead it's been a source of rancor and anger. Ultimately, it doesn't matter in the least _why_ the sigils cost a lot on the TP nor whether anyone can obtain all they want when they want them. Folks who aren't economists just see that they don't have any choice except to buy from the TP, at a price that seems crazy high compared to similar items. > > ANet's great at figuring out the numbers and I think it's usually safe to presume that they know better than we do about the size of faucets, can predict demand better than we can, and can anticipate market values more accurately. Where they tend to miss the boat: forgetting that most players don't care about the math; they just care that there's something in their way. > > tl;dr ANet builds a great new pistol and then shoots themself in the foot with it. Agreed. I do remember some of the forum talks with a certain economy dev long ago, that clearly showed that for Anet the impact of the economy on player enjoyment was a factor they almost never took into consideration. I'm disappointed that things are apparently still the same now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64. Maybe. Half a year from now however not many players will still care. And even those that willcare won't think better of Anet then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Then you are just exceptional and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player. > > I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways. Guess, I’m the exception too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64. I share your frustration, but a couple of points: First, there is no reason to believe the price will go up so ppl with tomes to level alts and the will to use those tomes to get sigils to sell would have already done so. Second, as the price drops the sigil becomes more available to ppl whose only impediment is the price, so they would not have to level 25 alts to get the sigils . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64. > > I share your frustration, but a couple of points: First, there is no reason to believe the price will go up so ppl with tomes to level alts and the will to use those tomes to get sigils to sell would have already done so. Second, as the price drops the sigil becomes more available to ppl whose only impediment is the price, so they would not have to level 25 alts to get the sigils . . . As the price drops the people who are leveling alts to sell sigils will stop doing that, which is his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > Then you are just exceptional and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player. > > > > I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways. > > Guess, I’m the exception too. Yup, the two whole guys ... or the 20 ... or the 200 ... it doesn't matter. Farming mats directly is not well supported in this game BECAUSE of how the market is intended to work. Even that being the case ... if you REALLY insist, you can farm those sigils. You STILL have the access to get those sigils how you decide from the options available. If you decided to take the long path, that is not a compelling reason for Anet to reconsider how they have implemented this skin-obtaining content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Then you are just exceptional and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player. > > > > > > I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways. > > > > Guess, I’m the exception too. > > Yup, the two whole guys ... or the 20 ... or the 200 ... it doesn't matter. Farming mats directly is not well supported in this game BECAUSE of how the market is intended to work. > > Even that being the case ... if you REALLY insist, you can farm those sigils. You STILL have the access to get those sigils how you decide from the options available. If you decided to take the long path, that is not a compelling reason for Anet to reconsider how they have implemented this skin-obtaining content. Nah, I just personally stopped buying gems and forgo the skins. I just refuse to make any extra purchases with how this was Armor set implementation was designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . Edit: Re-doing post You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > Edit: Re-doing post > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urud.4925 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Also, to continue the (good) Gop's reasoning: quitting a map/new content because you realise that you can't complete it, and quitting because you completed it and pass to something else, is also different because they leave you with a very different feeling: you're sad with the game/devs or happy for achieving something new. In any case, the time that we needed to play on this map to complete all the achievements was short, I agree. But leaving because you don't care anymore or because you made it, it's different. I think they had to put the sigil (or any other item they chose as material) as drop of Jahai. That way, we had to play a bit on the map (like in Kourna). It's not a bad map in the end, but it's useless to play there if you don't have anything meaningful to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Anyone remembers the Superior Rune of Scavenging situation? The Rune is only acquired from drops, it's not crafted or acquired otherwise. With the September 2014 Feature Pack, they added the Treasure Hunter collection, which requires 4 of these Runes to be used at certain places of power (skill challenges). The price of the Rune exploded from a couple silver to 2 gold+ then it went into a decline until it reached vendor price again. You needed only 4, it was for a simple achievement, not for new Armor skin, but still the price exploded for a couple of months. The problem with the nullification is you need to complete events to finish the collection and it's unknown if the map will be populated enough when the price becomes reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > Anyone remembers the Superior Rune of Scavenging situation? The Rune is only acquired from drops, it's not crafted or acquired otherwise. With the September 2014 Feature Pack, they added the Treasure Hunter collection, which requires 4 of these Runes to be used at certain places of power (skill challenges). The price of the Rune exploded from a couple silver to 2 gold+ then it went into a decline until it reached vendor price again. You needed only 4, it was for a simple achievement, not for new Armor skin, but still the price exploded for a couple of months. The problem with the nullification is you need to complete events to finish the collection and it's unknown if the map will be populated enough when the price becomes reasonable. My 2 cents are that Jahai will always have people, because of that very rare crystal infusion branded Shatterer drops and the permanent djinn tonic that May drop from the djinn meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyger.1637 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Urud.4925" said: > Also, to continue the (good) Gop's reasoning: quitting a map/new content because you realise that you can't complete it, and quitting because you completed it and pass to something else, is also different because they leave you with a very different feeling: you're sad with the game/devs or happy for achieving something new. > In any case, the time that we needed to play on this map to complete all the achievements was short, I agree. But leaving because you don't care anymore or because you made it, it's different. > Also, since the armour is quite visual, instead of being a hallmark of cool ("oooo, that's quality armour") it can be more of a symbol of resentment; the exact opposite intention of the upgraded appearance. And this is also plays a small part in my reluctance to finish it; I'll probably not wear all (if any) of it, another markdown for its intended purpose. A bit like how I see players wearing the legendary precursor light armour chest piece in the openworld but never the full set of any of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now