deadeye needs nerf.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.

> >

> > If the DE is using backstab they not necessarily Rifle specced. They can use d/p to stack stealth and they could always do this. DE does let you know a DE about because you get that MARK above your head. DJ from rifle in such a case is easier to avoid then is that backstab.

> >

> > The way to counter that incoming malicious backstab is the same means one used to counter a backstab prior to DE. The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less. One thing I like to do on my warrior when marked is rely an about face a lot , do not move in straight lines, use AOE and cleave. He still has to get close up and you do not necessarily have to SEE him to help mitigate that damage. You do not necessarily have to dodge that attack , but if you manage to turn around at the right time, or get weakness on the enemy it will hurt a lot less.

> >

> >

> I get +20k malicious backstabs without any mark.

>

 

Then you would get the same damage from a regular backstab. Malicious only adds damage if you marked. if not it regular backstab damage.

[Turk.5460]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> I am not sure where DD gets more stealth sources then does core. They pretty well the same.

 

Bounding Dodger allows 4 incredibly easy leaps through BP. Channeled Vigor allows for more dodges.

[SoV.5139]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

>

> Ehh...not really. Where was the warning here? I backstabbed this mesmer at the same time that the Mark's cast time completed.

>

> https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyIgnorantWheelWTRuck

 

Its not even the 19.8K hit that bothers me, or the 8k auto - although 8k auto does highlight the level of powercreep some folks still try to deny is happening....

 

but the fact that he can just disappear right after with zero consequences is the main issue

 

Nowdays its getting to the point where they run into the middle of zergs, gank one character, then vanish with a high success rate. No denying its OP when they arent afraid of a 60 person blob. I lol every time people call this high a risk playstyle.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"SoV.5139" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

> >

> > Ehh...not really. Where was the warning here? I backstabbed this mesmer at the same time that the Mark's cast time completed.

> >

> > https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyIgnorantWheelWTRuck

>

> Its not even the 19.8K hit that bothers me, or the 8k auto - although 8k auto does highlight the level of powercreep some folks still try to deny is happening....

>

> but the fact that he can just disappear right after with zero consequences is the main issue

>

> Nowdays its getting to the point where they run into the middle of zergs, gank one character, then vanish with a high success rate. No denying its OP when they arent afraid of a 60 person blob. I lol every time people call this high a risk playstyle.

 

You can get 8k auto hits on Hammer Warrior. Is that broken too? It's 25 stacks of might and a crit + maybe vuln. all easily accessible.

[Turk.5460]

> @"SoV.5139" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

> >

> > Ehh...not really. Where was the warning here? I backstabbed this mesmer at the same time that the Mark's cast time completed.

> >

> > https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyIgnorantWheelWTRuck

>

> Its not even the 19.8K hit that bothers me, or the 8k auto - although 8k auto does highlight the level of powercreep some folks still try to deny is happening....

>

> but the fact that he can just disappear right after with zero consequences is the main issue

>

> Nowdays its getting to the point where they run into the middle of zergs, gank one character, then vanish with a high success rate. No denying its OP when they arent afraid of a 60 person blob. I lol every time people call this high a risk playstyle.

 

I probably wouldn't have gotten away that easily i the middle of a zerg tho. At least not if I wanted to fully defeat the victim rather than just down them. All them circles in the Zerg.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"SoV.5139" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

> > >

> > > Ehh...not really. Where was the warning here? I backstabbed this mesmer at the same time that the Mark's cast time completed.

> > >

> > > https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyIgnorantWheelWTRuck

> >

> > Its not even the 19.8K hit that bothers me, or the 8k auto - although 8k auto does highlight the level of powercreep some folks still try to deny is happening....

> >

> > but the fact that he can just disappear right after with zero consequences is the main issue

> >

> > Nowdays its getting to the point where they run into the middle of zergs, gank one character, then vanish with a high success rate. No denying its OP when they arent afraid of a 60 person blob. I lol every time people call this high a risk playstyle.

>

> You can get 8k auto hits on Hammer Warrior. Is that broken too? It's 25 stacks of might and a crit + maybe vuln. all easily accessible.

 

I had 0 stacks of might and the target had 0 stacks of vulnerability.

[Bazsi.2734]

Funny enough, I agree because this was posted in the WvW subsection. I also have two potential fixes: either remove PvE gear from WvW, or remove the ability for DE to use rifle in WvW. Nothing short of those will fix this, because WvW is inherently broken and impossible to balance.

[felincyriac.5981]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less.

>

> Ehh...not really. Where was the warning here? I backstabbed this mesmer at the same time that the Mark's cast time completed.

>

> https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyIgnorantWheelWTRuck

 

Now this new event gives you even more damage, you can 1 shot warriors?

[Aeolus.3615]

MY wish list for Deadeye

IMO class need to loose the unblockable, that should be its gamble since has high damage.

Sklls on Deadeye should only boost/affect rifle.

 

IF Anet do this, damage is fine.

[Kayowin.9217]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> Funny enough, I agree because this was posted in the WvW subsection. I also have two potential fixes: either remove PvE gear from WvW, or remove the ability for DE to use rifle in WvW. Nothing short of those will fix this, because WvW is inherently broken and impossible to balance.

 

Remove rifle and promote more use of malicious backstab as a result? (The more prevalent issue with DE)

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > I am not sure where DD gets more stealth sources then does core. They pretty well the same.

>

> Bounding Dodger allows 4 incredibly easy leaps through BP. Channeled Vigor allows for more dodges.

 

Ah yes, I had forgot about bounding dodger. I just never found it to be all that productive in a d/p build given it so easy to stack with HS.

[Turk.5460]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > I am not sure where DD gets more stealth sources then does core. They pretty well the same.

> >

> > Bounding Dodger allows 4 incredibly easy leaps through BP. Channeled Vigor allows for more dodges.

>

> Ah yes, I had forgot about bounding dodger. I just never found it to be all that productive in a d/p build given it so easy to stack with HS.

 

It is not easy to stack 4 times with HS since the camera change.

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > Funny enough, I agree because this was posted in the WvW subsection. I also have two potential fixes: either remove PvE gear from WvW, or remove the ability for DE to use rifle in WvW. Nothing short of those will fix this, because WvW is inherently broken and impossible to balance.

>

> Remove rifle and promote more use of malicious backstab as a result? (The more prevalent issue with DE)

 

Oh yes I forgot about that. Remove mainhand dagger too.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > I am not sure where DD gets more stealth sources then does core. They pretty well the same.

> > >

> > > Bounding Dodger allows 4 incredibly easy leaps through BP. Channeled Vigor allows for more dodges.

> >

> > Ah yes, I had forgot about bounding dodger. I just never found it to be all that productive in a d/p build given it so easy to stack with HS.

>

> It is not easy to stack 4 times with HS since the camera change.

 

Still, I think whether stacking stealth with Bounding , HS and the field or DE the main issue IS stealth stacking and if a fix needed because DE becomes oppressive, addressing stacking overall the way to go.

 

I do not PVP so do not know what issues they have there so would also suggest if there a fix implemented it not one that breaks a build in one mode just to address another and as far as WvW goes tuning down damage in a DE spec is not the way to go even for a backstab or malicious BS given how much damage other professions can output. You just can't tune down damage on DE and leave those other professions alone given they tend to have more sustain.

[XenesisII.1540]

Deadeyes are fine, they are meant to do all their damage in stealth, just run away.

[nativity.3057]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > > People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.

> > >

> > > If the DE is using backstab they not necessarily Rifle specced. They can use d/p to stack stealth and they could always do this. DE does let you know a DE about because you get that MARK above your head. DJ from rifle in such a case is easier to avoid then is that backstab.

> > >

> > > The way to counter that incoming malicious backstab is the same means one used to counter a backstab prior to DE. The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less. One thing I like to do on my warrior when marked is rely an about face a lot , do not move in straight lines, use AOE and cleave. He still has to get close up and you do not necessarily have to SEE him to help mitigate that damage. You do not necessarily have to dodge that attack , but if you manage to turn around at the right time, or get weakness on the enemy it will hurt a lot less.

> > >

> > >

> > I get +20k malicious backstabs without any mark.

> >

>

> Then you would get the same damage from a regular backstab. Malicious only adds damage if you marked. if not it regular backstab damage.

 

except for core thieves to get 20k backstabs they need to blow almost all utilities (and slot utilities that boost damage). That means they have less access to stealth and need to combo smoke fields. Malicious backstab gets a free damage multiplier by just pressing F1, while having easy access to stealth via dodge mechanic.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"nativity.3057" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > > > People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.

> > > >

> > > > If the DE is using backstab they not necessarily Rifle specced. They can use d/p to stack stealth and they could always do this. DE does let you know a DE about because you get that MARK above your head. DJ from rifle in such a case is easier to avoid then is that backstab.

> > > >

> > > > The way to counter that incoming malicious backstab is the same means one used to counter a backstab prior to DE. The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less. One thing I like to do on my warrior when marked is rely an about face a lot , do not move in straight lines, use AOE and cleave. He still has to get close up and you do not necessarily have to SEE him to help mitigate that damage. You do not necessarily have to dodge that attack , but if you manage to turn around at the right time, or get weakness on the enemy it will hurt a lot less.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > I get +20k malicious backstabs without any mark.

> > >

> >

> > Then you would get the same damage from a regular backstab. Malicious only adds damage if you marked. if not it regular backstab damage.

>

> except for core thieves to get 20k backstabs they need to blow almost all utilities (and slot utilities that boost damage). That means they have less access to stealth and need to combo smoke fields. Malicious backstab gets a free damage multiplier by just pressing F1, while having easy access to stealth via dodge mechanic.

 

Except what? the person indicated he was not marked. There is no added damage multiplier if you are not marked.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > I am not sure where DD gets more stealth sources then does core. They pretty well the same.

> > >

> > > Bounding Dodger allows 4 incredibly easy leaps through BP. Channeled Vigor allows for more dodges.

> >

> > Ah yes, I had forgot about bounding dodger. I just never found it to be all that productive in a d/p build given it so easy to stack with HS.

>

> It is not easy to stack 4 times with HS since the camera change.

 

It's still possible to heartseeker 4 times through sniper's cover, so black powder is doable too. More difficult than before tho, you are right there. That's generally what people are doing to permastealth on deadeye tho, if you removed the stealth on dodge you'd still have people one shotting then running.

 

Incidentally, a more efficient way of doing it is using two bounds and either two heartseekers, vaults or cluster bombs, all are easily doable, use channeled vigor every other use of this combo to keep your endurance up. This means out of combat even staff and S/P builds can permastealth with daredevil, and given the backstab damage in your clip would be roughly the same as a daredevil with appropriate gear, this playstyle is nothing new to DE either.

[nativity.3057]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"nativity.3057" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > > > > People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.

> > > > >

> > > > > If the DE is using backstab they not necessarily Rifle specced. They can use d/p to stack stealth and they could always do this. DE does let you know a DE about because you get that MARK above your head. DJ from rifle in such a case is easier to avoid then is that backstab.

> > > > >

> > > > > The way to counter that incoming malicious backstab is the same means one used to counter a backstab prior to DE. The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less. One thing I like to do on my warrior when marked is rely an about face a lot , do not move in straight lines, use AOE and cleave. He still has to get close up and you do not necessarily have to SEE him to help mitigate that damage. You do not necessarily have to dodge that attack , but if you manage to turn around at the right time, or get weakness on the enemy it will hurt a lot less.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > I get +20k malicious backstabs without any mark.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Then you would get the same damage from a regular backstab. Malicious only adds damage if you marked. if not it regular backstab damage.

> >

> > except for core thieves to get 20k backstabs they need to blow almost all utilities (and slot utilities that boost damage). That means they have less access to stealth and need to combo smoke fields. Malicious backstab gets a free damage multiplier by just pressing F1, while having easy access to stealth via dodge mechanic.

>

> Except what? the person indicated he was not marked. There is no added damage multiplier if you are not marked.

 

the person indicated that he backstabbed after the mark cast time finished.

 

my other points are still holds true.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"nativity.3057" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"nativity.3057" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> > > > > > > People try to tell how to fight against deadeye, but it's not like you have any time to fight. You run somewhere and you are dead before you can do anything. It's not like you get any signs than deadeye is close. Even if you see smokefield you can't just dodge random time and hope that deadeye backstab same time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If the DE is using backstab they not necessarily Rifle specced. They can use d/p to stack stealth and they could always do this. DE does let you know a DE about because you get that MARK above your head. DJ from rifle in such a case is easier to avoid then is that backstab.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The way to counter that incoming malicious backstab is the same means one used to counter a backstab prior to DE. The consequences of failing to counter are worse but you DO have more warning , not less. One thing I like to do on my warrior when marked is rely an about face a lot , do not move in straight lines, use AOE and cleave. He still has to get close up and you do not necessarily have to SEE him to help mitigate that damage. You do not necessarily have to dodge that attack , but if you manage to turn around at the right time, or get weakness on the enemy it will hurt a lot less.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > I get +20k malicious backstabs without any mark.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Then you would get the same damage from a regular backstab. Malicious only adds damage if you marked. if not it regular backstab damage.

> > >

> > > except for core thieves to get 20k backstabs they need to blow almost all utilities (and slot utilities that boost damage). That means they have less access to stealth and need to combo smoke fields. Malicious backstab gets a free damage multiplier by just pressing F1, while having easy access to stealth via dodge mechanic.

> >

> > Except what? the person indicated he was not marked. There is no added damage multiplier if you are not marked.

>

> the person indicated that he backstabbed after the mark cast time finished.

>

> my other points are still holds true.

 

Do you even know how malice works?

 

This is what the person posted.

 

>I get +20k malicious backstabs without any mark.

 

When someone says hey got backstabbed for 20k damage without a mark then he was not marked.

 

A second person then showed how he was able to get around the warning given to a target that he was marked by marking and immediately attacking. This is not the person I originally responded to. Were this the case there was NO MALICE so no added damage.

 

Finally to your other points. What other points? The spec DE is premised around malice wherein a marked target will take more damage from attacks. The spec does that. Complaining Core specs for thief can not do that is like complaining that Core specs do not have as many dodges as Daredevil.

 

 

[babazhook.6805]

del dupe from edit

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"nativity.3057" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> >

> > Then you would get the same damage from a regular backstab. Malicious only adds damage if you marked. if not it regular backstab damage.

>

> except for core thieves to get 20k backstabs they need to blow almost all utilities (and slot utilities that boost damage). That means they have less access to stealth and need to combo smoke fields. Malicious backstab gets a free damage multiplier by just pressing F1, while having easy access to stealth via dodge mechanic.

 

Dodge only stealths you if you have a rifle equipped when you dodge, and only if you traited for it. Given the 10 seconds weaponswap cooldown, if the enemy DE downs you with mainly Malicious Backstabs, rifle dodge cannot be the way he maintained steath.

[Kayowin.9217]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> > > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > > Funny enough, I agree because this was posted in the WvW subsection. I also have two potential fixes: either remove PvE gear from WvW, or remove the ability for DE to use rifle in WvW. Nothing short of those will fix this, because WvW is inherently broken and impossible to balance.

> >

> > Remove rifle and promote more use of malicious backstab as a result? (The more prevalent issue with DE)

>

> Oh yes I forgot about that. Remove mainhand dagger too.

 

Glad you are not on the balance team....

[meri.9187]

Shadow Meld is a terrible design. I think everyone can agree that in a game there should be play and counterplay.

 

Play: Stealth.

 

Counterplay: Reveal.

 

Counter-counterplay: Shadow Meld.

 

Specifically designing a skill to counter-counterplay your counterplay is an absolute garbage idea.

 

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > > @"Kayowin.9217" said:

> > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > > > Funny enough, I agree because this was posted in the WvW subsection. I also have two potential fixes: either remove PvE gear from WvW, or remove the ability for DE to use rifle in WvW. Nothing short of those will fix this, because WvW is inherently broken and impossible to balance.

> > >

> > > Remove rifle and promote more use of malicious backstab as a result? (The more prevalent issue with DE)

> >

> > Oh yes I forgot about that. Remove mainhand dagger too.

>

> Glad you are not on the balance team....

 

Yes I'm unironically wanting to remove weapons, because thats a thing we do. Last week we removed chainsaw from warrior and hola-hoop from mesmer.