Allow players to choose what armor type they want to wear

[bara yaoi.3824]

One of the main objections to allowing all armor types for all classes is because of the rig weights of the armor type and stuff would make everything with physics mess up: but that would only be the case if they wore differing armor types at the same time, it wouldn't happen if they just strictly wore one armor type.

 

I hate the way all of the medium armor looks; personally there is literally nothing appealing as a player that plays male characters. But, I love the playstyle of medium armor classes. I love the aesthetics of light armor and imo its just designed so well. Don't make me choose between playing the class I want to play or how I want to look ANET! Allow free choice!

 

**So, instead of allowing a player to mix and match light/medium/heavy armor which would be impossible to do, allow them to select the armor type that they would like to wear.**

 

If you're going to argue something along the lines of class identity, players are already able to wear outfits that take away from class identity and most people don't associate armor looks to a class either since there most people either wear outfits or don't care enough.

 

ANET could also monetize this by adding a sort of armor type change coupon to the gem store.

 

This way, players would be able to choose what armor they want to wear AND play the class that they want to play instead of having to force themselves to change to another class just for the fashion, or force themselves into playing the class they want but hate how they look.

[Blocki.4931]

Well, this is exactly why outfits exists. Armor is heavily tied to the classes, they can't just switch it up.

[bara yaoi.3824]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Well, this is exactly why outfits exists. Armor is heavily tied to the classes, they can't just switch it up.

 

They can switch it up though.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Armor is heavily tied to the classes, they can't just switch it up.

Armor itself yes because they have different stats, but not the skins.

 

[Nate.8146]

I wouldn't object to this. ESO does this to great success and I quite like the mechanics they introduced between their armor types. Light armor for better magicka regen and penetration, medium armor for improved physical attacks and stealth, and heavy armor for tanking. Regardless of your class, you can mix and match armor sets you desire. As far as the dev team is concerned, it's your choice how you want to look and play. And considering ESO has been stealing ideas from GW2 over the last year, I wouldn't object to Anet taking some of the good ideas from them :)

[miraude.2107]

Instead of throwing some complicated system of letting a guardian wear light armor, which sounds like what you are suggesting, since it's just cosmetics you are after, ask for being able to wear any skin unlocked in your wardrobe regardless of class. So guardians still have to wear heavy armor but they can transmog it to look like medium or light. Thieves still have to wear medium armor but can transmog to look like heavy or light. Etc. Just an overall you are still gated to wearing the armor that your class is supposed to wear however you can transmog it into looking however you want as long as you have that skin unlocked.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"miraude.2107" said:

> Instead of throwing some complicated system of letting a guardian wear light armor, which sounds like what you are suggesting, since it's just cosmetics you are after, ask for being able to wear any skin unlocked in your wardrobe regardless of class. So guardians still have to wear heavy armor but they can transmog it to look like medium or light. Thieves still have to wear medium armor but can transmog to look like heavy or light. Etc. Just an overall you are still gated to wearing the armor that your class is supposed to wear however you can transmog it into looking however you want as long as you have that skin unlocked.

 

As long as it is not mix and match.

That's pretty much what the OP suggests...

[Atticus.7194]

This would not work, light, medium and heavy armor have different rigging points that allows them to be combined without looking ridic. Mixing the weights up would mean that many many armor sets together would not look or function right.

 

Honestly, just use an outfit, not trying to be a jerk here but there has to be some medium armor you like, if not use an outfit.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Atticus.7194" said:

> light, medium and heavy armor have different rigging points that allows them to be combined without looking ridic

Actually they don't, they're just a lot of misplaced textures on the medium armor but this can be solved though multiple ways (not to mention that they should fix the misplaced textures regardless).

[Dami.5046]

While we're at it I wanna choose what skills I can use too. :s

How lazy.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Atticus.7194" said:

> > light, medium and heavy armor have different rigging points that allows them to be combined without looking ridic

> Actually they don't, they're just a lot of misplaced textures on the medium armor but this can be solved though multiple ways (not to mention that they should fix the misplaced textures regardless).

 

Is there proof they do not, because im more inclined to believe there absolutely is.

[Faowri.4159]

My mesmer does indeed stare longingly at the many pants available to medium-armour classes.

 

I think the main issue is that, originally, the distinction between armour classes was primarily aesthetic. Outfits have kinda made that a moot point. By all means, keep armour stats class-specific. But armour _looks_ should have been made non-class-specific a long time ago.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Atticus.7194" said:

> > > light, medium and heavy armor have different rigging points that allows them to be combined without looking ridic

> > Actually they don't, they're just a lot of misplaced textures on the medium armor but this can be solved though multiple ways (not to mention that they should fix the misplaced textures regardless).

>

> Is there proof they do not, because im more inclined to believe there absolutely is.

Sure, just go to the wardrobe and look at the more basic clothing (you have to use the glorious brigandine for medium armor due to a lack of alternatives). The basics are always the same regardless of weight class, everything else is skin dependent.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > @"Atticus.7194" said:

> > > > light, medium and heavy armor have different rigging points that allows them to be combined without looking ridic

> > > Actually they don't, they're just a lot of misplaced textures on the medium armor but this can be solved though multiple ways (not to mention that they should fix the misplaced textures regardless).

> >

> > Is there proof they do not, because im more inclined to believe there absolutely is.

> Sure, just go to the wardrobe and look at the more basic clothing (you have to use the glorious brigandine for medium armor due to a lack of alternatives). The basics are always the same regardless of weight class, everything else is skin dependent.

 

More basic, as in lack of decoration, or like starting clothing?

 

Also forgive me for pointing this out but *there* are differences.

 

These are from an older post in 2017:

 

> > @Machiavell.7396 said:

> > As a player who played this game since release, let me clarify it for you. Wishes and polls aside, what you suggest is not possible in game's engine. Back in the day, you could actually preview multiple weights of armor at the same time, but all you got from it was a bunch of glitched out textures. Game's engine works with certain skeletons and these skeletons have different mesh for armors and pants. This is why medium armors in majority are trenchcoats, and because of different hook spots and whatever, it's impossible to effectively mix and match armor pieces that in some cases go on top of each other's hook point and literally flip your game inside out. Gloves, Boots, Helmets and Shoulders have same hook spots so that can be added across multiple weights, and won't break anything, BUT they work ONLY because they are prepared for that ahead of time, as I remember that previewing heavy pants with light/medium shoes back then also created unsettling graphical anomalies.

> >

> > Technical part aside, outfits broke enough immersion already, I would prefer actually to have armor weights as they are now, to preserve at least some of classes originality.

 

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > @"DreamyLove.8947" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @DreamyLove.8947 said:

> > > > > @shejesa.3712 said:

> > > > > A noble goal but it is not worth it. They would have put tons of resources into getting rid of all the clipping that medium/light/have models are bound to have. Outfits have to be in order only within their own texture and with weapons/backpack that are the same for all the weights.

> > > >

> > > > we already have "clipping" problem at same weight

> > > >

> > > > so i don't think this is why we can't have ignore weight

> > > >

> > > > ppl who wanna mix weight, he will choose the match one

> > >

> > > We don't have the kind of clipping problems that come with mixing weights. If you think clipping is bad now, you can't imagine how bad it is without the amount of testing/refinement they do.

> > >

> > > I don't think ANet will ever do away with weights of armor. "Outfits" bypass that by creating a fourth weight (or fifth, if you include town clothes, which were also a unique weight that couldn't be mixed with the others).

> > >

> > > What they could do is eliminate the requirement that "light armor" skins can only be worn by scholar classes. Since you can appear to be in metal armor using outfits, there's no longer a gamplay reason for the restriction. (That wouldn't be cheap to accomplish; it would just be a lot cheaper than allowing mixed weights.)

> >

> > i am not thikng clipping is bad

> > but also i don't thinkg that is a why we can't do ignore weight

> >

> > also when u preview skin

> > u can see all weight they near the same line base on body

> >

> > and i think only reason is they don't want, they didn't do, not they can't do by current engine

> >

> > 

> >

>

> You're misunderstanding the fundamental problem. It is in fact a game engine limitation. The armor pieces themselves actually anchor to different places on the skeleton... and when you mix them it tries to put those anchor points together, condensing the skeleton in weird ways. the term "clipping" is an inadequate description for what happens here... You used to be able to preview mix and match, which worked fine when using med pants with med tops, etc. The moment you mixed a med top with, say, a heavy armor though things would happen like your character's torso shortening, or the character's waist turning inside out... for an example of what can happen when something causes the mesh to condense in a way it was not supposed to (not an armor issue but very similar to how some of these mixes behaved in preview)....

>

>

 

 

I tried tracking down the Developer post on the subject because they did get asked and they did give an answer(amounting to each armor weight is rigged separately.) but it was at the earliest in 2012 when the *FIRST* of these threads appeared.

 

edit and to further clarify: Town clothes/outfits are the fourth "armor type".

 

edit 2: this is a qoute from Curtis Johnson

"

 

We do understand and sincerely apologize that there are creative combinations of town clothes that will not exist anymore. Many have asked why remove town clothes as a concept. It boils down to we believe better armor skinning and the outfit system is something we can add more options to more often and will produce a better supported RP game for everyone with more variety in the future. In short, a healthier game.

 

To expand more on what I mean by better support, It helps if you think of town clothes as a 4th weight class of armor. Clothing was meant to offer visual options that break the class roles, however we were never completely happy with the way it was isolated from the rest of the game and still felt largely the same. Many pieces could have easily been mistaken for light or medium armor. In many ways it was more akin to building an alt character because town-clothes and armor were so separated. Additionally, every time we added something to town-clothes, it didn’t really help someone building their light, medium, or heavy look. And there was no way to add combat gear fairly without creating 3 versions on the back end (light, medium, and heavy). As a customization platform and sustainable expansion design it left a lot to be desired.

 

When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes. (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece).. There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together. So we needed something new to continue to grow in the future.

 

Outfits give us a way to create highly stylized looks that aren’t constrained to armor slots or weight class. In addition to armor skins that are easier and cheaper to collect across characters and the account dye system we do believe the options across a players whole account are much more attractive now. You’ll see more outfits coming out this summer and additions to the game more often usable by your characters. We try not to allow too much ‘hoarder’ design where we just keep stacking more and more options on leaving lots of unsupported things hanging around. Yes, we do have to give up some of our current closet space and clothing to fit the new wardrobe in. Again, apologies for that.

 

As always we ask you to try out the new system of customization and see what’s available to you. I think many people will be surprised by how many pieces have become armor compatible. We hope the benefits to the outfit system and wardrobe in terms of future support and additions will be clear, and you can look forward to more new outfits coming very soon.

"

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-Town-clothes-Costumes-Combat/page/18#post3823361

 

Edit 3: in my digging i have found that players at the time ripped the armor skins from the game files and mixed them on skeletons they also ripped from the games files and the results where bad according to the posts(no pictures i think in part because the old forums dont really exist anymore), but they had tops trying to literally merge with pants, among other issues.

[Boysenberry.1869]

> @"Faowri.4159" said:

> My mesmer does indeed stare longingly at the many pants available to medium-armour classes.

>

> I think the main issue is that, originally, the distinction between armour classes was primarily aesthetic. Outfits have kinda made that a moot point. By all means, keep armour stats class-specific. But armour _looks_ should have been made non-class-specific a long time ago.

 

This would work well. Even if it takes a little effort on Anet's part, they may get people to buy more Transmutation charges as they test a whole new world of wardrobe options. If the different pieces look goofy because they come from different weights...who cares! People dress goofy in real life all the time.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Just snipping that one bit from @"Dante.1763"'s summary:

>Curtis Johnson

>_(snip) When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles **there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes** (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece). There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together. (snip)_

 

Context note: Johnson writes, "over six years since we started development" on a quote from early 2014. He's referring to when they made the design decisions, 4 years before launch. (Thus now it's a 10-year old decision that is pretty much baked into the game.)

[Dante.1763]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> Just snipping that one bit from @"Dante.1763"'s summary:

> >Curtis Johnson

> >_(snip) When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles **there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes** (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece). There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together. (snip)_

>

> Context note: Johnson writes, "over six years since we started development" on a quote from early 2014. He's referring to when they made the design decisions, 4 years before launch. (Thus now it's a 10-year old decision that is pretty much baked into the game.)

 

Probably should have done that myself, thank you though :)

[Tails.9372]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> More basic, as in lack of decoration, or like starting clothing?

As in as in lack of decoration. Some of them pretty much look like reskins, you wouldn't be able tell what's what unless someone told you.

 

Like I said there are some misplaced textures (especially in regards to medium armor) so of course there would be some issues but this should be addressed regardless.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > More basic, as in lack of decoration, or like starting clothing?

> As in as in lack of decoration. Some of them pretty much look like reskins, you wouldn't be able tell what's what unless someone told you.

>

> Like I said there are some misplaced textures (especially in regards to medium armor) so of course there would be some issues but this should be addressed regardless.

 

it has been, see the qoute in the post above yours. It wont happen, its impossible with the games engine.

[otto.5684]

I never really managed to understand why you cannot mix and match cosmetics as you please. So what if my guardian looks like he/she is wearing light armor? Or Mesmer in heavy armor.

 

I really do not get this.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> it has been

Nope, they haven't addressed any of the misplaced textures yet.

[Dante.1763]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> I never really managed to understand why you cannot mix and match cosmetics as you please. So what if my guardian looks like he/she is wearing light armor? Or Mesmer in heavy armor.

>

> I really do not get this.

 

See my overly long post, or the snippet that @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" posted.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > it has been

> Nope, they haven't addressed any of the misplaced textures yet.

 

Ah thought you where still talking about the OPs subject.

[Heibi.4251]

If it's all about looks, just have the skin available to any character on the account. No armor level changes needed, just skins. Would make for some interesting combos/looks.

 

[Donari.5237]

The skins are available to all characters, they just can't wear the wrong weights. If you are saying "no no, they aren't wearing an actual Heavy Plate Chest, they just reskinned a light chest to look like it," well, that's the whole problem -- the heavy skin will not map onto the light rig that is integral to the character.

 

While I agree that it might be nice to let someone have all six pieces done as a group in an armor weight that doesn't normally go on their profession, I ask this question to those saying just restrict it to all six: How do you swap? How do you transmute one piece at a time? At some point during the weight transition you will be mixing weights on your rig, which is established by the devs as not doable without a complete rework of every single armor piece in the game.

 

If you have a logical solution to that problem, and if it's not prohibitive amounts of coding to convert characters to wear any weight rather than the currently baked in one, we'll be a lot closer to this becoming possible.