please stop duelling in WvW!!

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > Duelers aint helping at all your server to win the match .... 15 times on map chat people complaining about getting ganked over and over by said "duelers".

>

> So duelers ARE helping out with the match by preventing reinforcements from returning to the main force! SMH

 

yep, while the "duelers" from our side just watch and do /dance and /laugh

[anduriell.6280]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

>

> standing in spawn you dont bind other players. a dueller is more efficient than a scout in a tower that is not getting attacked all day.

>

> earlier today 2 people tried to build a cata on a tower, i killed them both before they shot once. now they wasted supplies and i got points for killing them. their contribuiton is only binding me for a brief moment, if i was in a duell an opponent could have done the same without granting my world some score

>

> as for more helpful..

> many people play very inefficient builds or just bad should they also just get reported for matchmanipulation?

> if the map is not full do you still need to play efficient?

 

I think we already discussed you can do that because you are hard carried by the permastealth DE no-skill build whish all people complain about every single where.

 

Back on your topic of your strawman falacy , that people you killed were trying to do something productive for the server. A dude scouting for a commander in a tower all evening is doing something productive for the server.

 

Two dudes fighting each other and the ones watching are a waste of spots. I find disturbing Anet allow this kind of toxic behaviour in the game.

 

**It is as easy as if you don get participation(and you are T0 with no participation) in 10 minutes you are kicked from the instance**. Killing players or Pnjs should not give you any participation.

 

The dude scouting the tower for the commander will not have any issue: he gfets the participation from the squad.

 

The dudes afking in the tower, in respawn or dueling will be lead out of the instance, so players which want to play the game get in.

 

Wvw has many mechanics brought from PvE which are halfbake measures. Good for PvE and to mask some issues for some time in competitive games.

 

 

[WraithOfStealth.1624]

>@"anduriell.6280" said:

> taking one of the limited slots from the WvW queue to play Arena in WvW could be considered match manipulation the same as staying in respawn in a spvp match. You not only are wasting an spot but also forbidding other player probably more helpful than you to play with his friends.

 

Helpful and "Wasting a spot" are subjective though. This might be a bit too specific an example but i'll give it anyway:

 

Let's say my server has a queue on our Alpine BL. But we have no commander and the enemy servers have 2 guild groups running around steamrolling over any kind of team effort my server attempts. Are the people from my server repeatedly wiping vs them being more helpful than roamers by feeding the enemy with kills and lowering our k/d while increasing the enemy score?

 

You could then say: "Well but if those ~5 duellers/roamers didn't take up a spot on the map we would've won!" In this example it wouldn't matter one bit as the organised groups would still steamroll the pugs that now have 5 more pugs. It would be a similar story if my server did have a commander, but the players in squad didn't listen as well as the players in the enemy squad or have less optimized builds. ~5 more players would not make a difference.

 

I'll refer to my earlier post to say that **duelling isn't something people do exclusively and/or constantly**. It can be as short as 5 minutes before they go back to roaming, calling out enemy movement or taking camps/towers. Arguably more useful than being a part of the zerg most of the time.

 

>@"MUDse.7623" said:

> many people play very inefficient builds or just bad should they also just get reported for matchmanipulation?

> if the map is not full do you still need to play efficient?

 

I'll go with MUDse's line of thought here. If people think/want WvW to be _THAT_ serious, any player not on tag/teamspeak 100% of the time with a fully min/maxed build is inefficient according to these standards and would be a candidate for supposed "Match Manipulation". It's just a silly argument to begin with in my opinion.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

WvW belongs to the players. I actually joined quite late, in 2017 last year, so I was pretty fresh for a while and didn't fully know about WvW etiquette. But if you respect people there, if you respect their skill and ways of doing things, that they have been in WvW and made something out of it for years and years now, you will find respect in return.

 

I would always advise newer players to respect the unwritten rules as they discover them. Veterans won't react kindly if you're contentious (unless you're trying to save SM, heh heh).

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> WvW belongs to the players. I actually joined quite late, in 2017 last year, so I was pretty fresh for a while and didn't fully know about WvW etiquette. But if you respect people there, if you respect their skill and ways of doing things, that they have been in WvW and made something out of it for years and years now, you will find respect in return.

>

> I would always advise newer players to respect the unwritten rules as they discover them. Veterans won't react kindly if you're contentious (unless you're trying to save SM, heh heh).

 

As nice as that sou ds, wvw ettiquette sounds like it was written by abaddon.

I occassionally run into two people fighting, i join in to help my servers’ guy, and they instantly turn toxic. Not like, ‘no, this is a duel’ more like ‘what the skritt are doing, you absolute quaggan’.

 

That and the fact that the duelers at the south sentry have someone claimed monopoly (or ownership) of that sentry.

 

Its funny that you ask for respect for duellers when i have yet to meet a single dueller who isn’t half as toxic as a pvp player

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> There is a time and a place for everything

> WvW is **NOT** the time, and it is **NOT** the place for it.

>

> I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.

> So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.

> The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

>

> I tell them to help me kill the enemy server's players, but they refuse, because apparantly '_i've interrupted a private fight_'.

> In every sense of the word, that is treason, or betrayal, or whatever word you want to give it.

> Newsflash, you're in WvW, there are no private fights, you are a member of your server, and if I see members of my server fighting members of other servers,

> I will attempt to help them kill the enemies.

> You are representing your server in WvW, if you don't want to WvW, then don't come into WvW maps.

>

> There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

 

Actually I have to disagree with you.. slightly.

 

Yes there is PvP lobbys for duels but the problem with PvP lobby's is that you are forced to run PvP builds and stats etc.

WvW is PvP but it's a very different kind of PvP that relies on PvE gear, builds etc.

 

Dueling in WvW is not the same as dueling in PvP.. if anything WvW is the closest thing people have to being able to Duel in PvE.

 

While I agree that it's annoying if not unfair for people like you who stumble on a duel and being unaware of it join in and get screwed by your own team mate who lets you die it does show that whether Anet want to aknowledge it or not that some players in Gw2 want to have some kind of PvE Dueling system.

 

I'm not a big PvP fan myself but I do love the idea of having some kind of system in the PvE game where players can challenge one another to duels anywhere in the PvE game for their own enjoyment as well as the entertainment of other people who might stumble across one and stop to watch.

Add a few titles and achievements, disable 3rd party healing sources while under the effects of a dueling buff and you've got an easy but great addition to PvE that will stop this kind of thing happening in WvW.

 

It could also be expanded upon later to include Guild wars.. an Idea I had recently where two guilds could agree to go to war with one another and members who are actively representing a guild with a war status would see all members actively representing the guild they are at war with as hostiles in the PvE world.

This would allow guilds to stage small battles in the PvE world and use the terrain, outposts and other things like forts to their own benefit and members who don't want to participate can simply stop representing said guild when they feel like.

Would also allow those on mounts to ambush one another.. See a rival guild member flying on a griffon.. jump on yours and dive bomb him out of the sky :P

That kind thing would be really fun to have in Gw2.. and it could easily be added in a way that makes it entirely optional for individual members and guilds alike.

It would also be a good way to add a guild ranking system which is something I think a lot of people would like to have specially the Gw1 fanbase who miss the Guild vs Guild aspect of Gw1.

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > WvW belongs to the players. I actually joined quite late, in 2017 last year, so I was pretty fresh for a while and didn't fully know about WvW etiquette. But if you respect people there, if you respect their skill and ways of doing things, that they have been in WvW and made something out of it for years and years now, you will find respect in return.

> >

> > I would always advise newer players to respect the unwritten rules as they discover them. Veterans won't react kindly if you're contentious (unless you're trying to save SM, heh heh).

>

> As nice as that sou ds, wvw ettiquette sounds like it was written by abaddon.

> I occassionally run into two people fighting, i join in to help my servers’ guy, and they instantly turn toxic. Not like, ‘no, this is a duel’ more like ‘what the skritt are doing, you absolute quaggan’.

>

> That and the fact that the duelers at the south sentry have someone claimed monopoly (or ownership) of that sentry.

>

> Its funny that you ask for respect for duellers when i have yet to meet a single dueller who isn’t half as toxic as a pvp player

 

yeah, WvW etiquette sounds cool and all, but it dosent work...what happens most of the time is duelers see a single player passing by and think "Hey, I really wanna keep my participation up, so I guess we all gonna gank this dude, his team mates will just watch anyway", if they see a roaming group they might think twice before doing, cause you know, having to face people with equal numbers and optimal builds for small scale fights means having a fair fight and they might end up losing and if they see a zerg passing by they just shyly hide in the corner begging "please we are just peacefully dueling here, dont kill us"

[MUDse.7623]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> >

> > standing in spawn you dont bind other players. a dueller is more efficient than a scout in a tower that is not getting attacked all day.

> >

> > earlier today 2 people tried to build a cata on a tower, i killed them both before they shot once. now they wasted supplies and i got points for killing them. their contribuiton is only binding me for a brief moment, if i was in a duell an opponent could have done the same without granting my world some score

> >

> > as for more helpful..

> > many people play very inefficient builds or just bad should they also just get reported for matchmanipulation?

> > if the map is not full do you still need to play efficient?

>

> I think we already discussed you can do that because you are hard carried by the permastealth DE no-skill build whish all people complain about every single where.

>

> Back on your topic of your strawman falacy , that people you killed were trying to do something productive for the server. A dude scouting for a commander in a tower all evening is doing something productive for the server.

>

> Two dudes fighting each other and the ones watching are a waste of spots. I find disturbing Anet allow this kind of toxic behaviour in the game.

>

> **It is as easy as if you don get participation(and you are T0 with no participation) in 10 minutes you are kicked from the instance**. Killing players or Pnjs should not give you any participation.

>

> The dude scouting the tower for the commander will not have any issue: he gfets the participation from the squad.

>

> The dudes afking in the tower, in respawn or dueling will be lead out of the instance, so players which want to play the game get in.

>

> Wvw has many mechanics brought from PvE which are halfbake measures. Good for PvE and to mask some issues for some time in competitive games.

>

>

i dont really see what the build i might have used has to do with anything here. FYI the last few days i played a ton more ranger than deadeye.. and you know what? altho i am inexperienced on it single opponents usually are a ton easier to deal with - especially deadeyes :). problem is just that they group up too fast when they die and ranger cant escape large groups as good.

 

a player duelling a good opponent is contributing more than a scout in a tower that never gets attacked, even if a commander asked him or even provides participation. you can know your opponents position from being outside the tower hunting them aswell.

 

participation is one attempt to balance the rewards for players outside of zergs, its not perfect and doesnt reflect contribution to the match.

 

edit: and before you draw other wrong conclusions.. i only duel when specifically asked _nicely_ by my opponents, i much more often tho gank people at duel spots that i dislike or when i get attacked passing by.

 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

 

>

> That and the fact that the duelers at the south sentry have someone claimed monopoly (or ownership) of that sentry.

>

> Its funny that you ask for respect for duellers when i have yet to meet a single dueller who isn’t half as toxic as a pvp player

 

I cannot speak for the tier you are in as I dont know which you are in. I am typically in T2/3 and can say with 100% certainty the following:

 

1.) No one has a monopoly. Very rare have I been attacked for flipping the sentry while ppl are watching duelers (and all I do is solo/duo roam in WvW.)

 

2.) I have also yet to meet any duelers that are toxic (maybe 1 that I can recall, however he wasnt really /bowing so he doesnt count as a dueler). They are fairly considerate really. If you are a ...ahem...repeat offender in disrupting the fights, especially if you know they are dueling, they then may gang up on ya, and for good reason. Respect goes both ways. You already admit that you have no respect, so why should they? Be the bigger person.

[WraithOfStealth.1624]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> As nice as that sou ds, wvw ettiquette sounds like it was written by abaddon.

> I occassionally run into two people fighting, i join in to help my servers’ guy, and they instantly turn toxic. Not like, ‘no, this is a duel’ more like ‘what the skritt are doing, you absolute quaggan’.

>

> That and the fact that the duelers at the south sentry have someone claimed monopoly (or ownership) of that sentry.

>

> Its funny that you ask for respect for duellers when i have yet to meet a single dueller who isn’t half as toxic as a pvp player

 

This really depends on the situation. It's ok to be upset when a teammate cusses you out for helping with a fight **if it's not a 1v1 in a remote location or below south sentry with obvious spectators** He was stupid enough to try to 1v1 in a high traffic area, perfectly reasonable on your part.

 

As someone who duels frequently at south sentry, i do sometimes see people who do duels there but also just gank random people in the area. Can't say i agree with it, but nothing we can do about it. The sentry (NPC) is just something people use to keep up participation, but imo **no dueller will purposefully kill people taking the sentry as they WANT it to be flipped so they can retake it afterwards for the participation.** Most of the times people don't even bother with participation to begin with.

 

Unfortunately it sounds to me like you have bad personal experiences with duellers, most of the ones i meet (90%) are quite reasonable people. Like life, experiences may vary. You don't have to "respect" duellers, but there's no need to purposefully disrupt their preferred gameplay either.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> i dont really see what the build i might have used has to do with anything here. FYI the last few days i played a ton more ranger than deadeye.. and you know what? altho i am inexperienced on it single opponents usually are a ton easier to deal with - especially deadeyes :). problem is just that they group up too fast when they die and ranger cant escape large groups as good.

>

> a player duelling a good opponent is contributing more than a scout in a tower that never gets attacked, even if a commander asked him or even provides participation. you can know your opponents position from being outside the tower hunting them aswell.

>

> participation is one attempt to balance the rewards for players outside of zergs, its not perfect and doesnt reflect contribution to the match.

ad ignorantiam.

Just saying to have an scout is the most invaluable resource in this game and it does almost as much as a blob capping objectives.. I don't feel like to explain why to you now thou.

 

Just think in what you are saying and if Anet Devs decided to invests time to provide the Shared Squad participation mechanics is because there is something important there.

 

[freecarl.1320]

I paid for the game don't tell me how I should play it haha ^_^

[sarkysek.1085]

> @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> There is a time and a place for everything

> WvW is **NOT** the time, and it is **NOT** the place for it.

>

> I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.

> So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.

> The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

>

> I tell them to help me kill the enemy server's players, but they refuse, because apparantly '_i've interrupted a private fight_'.

> In every sense of the word, that is treason, or betrayal, or whatever word you want to give it.

> Newsflash, you're in WvW, there are no private fights, you are a member of your server, and if I see members of my server fighting members of other servers,

> I will attempt to help them kill the enemies.

> You are representing your server in WvW, if you don't want to WvW, then don't come into WvW maps.

>

> There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

 

Said every PvE player ever. I suggest you learn basic WvW rules and respect them ;)

[Sovereign.1093]

just do your thing. but becareful of consequence.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > There is a time and a place for everything

> > WvW is **NOT** the time, and it is **NOT** the place for it.

> >

> > I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.

> > So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.

> > The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

> >

> > I tell them to help me kill the enemy server's players, but they refuse, because apparantly '_i've interrupted a private fight_'.

> > In every sense of the word, that is treason, or betrayal, or whatever word you want to give it.

> > Newsflash, you're in WvW, there are no private fights, you are a member of your server, and if I see members of my server fighting members of other servers,

> > I will attempt to help them kill the enemies.

> > You are representing your server in WvW, if you don't want to WvW, then don't come into WvW maps.

> >

> > There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

>

> Said every PvE player ever. I suggest you learn basic WvW rules and respect them ;)

 

Basic wvw rules like claiming a piece of land for private fights, including the sentry on said land, and talking to everyone as if they're trespassing?

[Pelto.9364]

This is not L2P issue because most runs with the zerg builds. Many duellers are just toxic like OP has observed.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

> @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

>

> I find this so funny, people are so mad they roll a class to hide and stomp someone they can't kill on their own. Yet yall are the ones that have issues with people dueling away from other people and not bothering them.

 

Its just a troll thing what i said.

Anyway i have run past some of these duel places and stopped to watch a fight only to find it wasn't a duel and that i could have helped.

I find that nowdays when i engage these battles if only 2 ppl are there, they would stop and our player would say its a duel, i'd leave.

In op's case this didn't happen thus him complaining.

Regardless, if your map is queued and your server needs help, you are hogging a spot of someone who could be doing better things than your stupid duel.

[googel.3278]

duelling gives free bag, so why not just kill that enemy? It is also a potential for a pre drop!

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"googel.3278" said:

> duelling gives free bag, so why not just kill that enemy? It is also a potential for a pre drop!

 

He would not be wrong in doing so. But his teammate is not wrong in not helping either. AND if he isn't good enough to win 1v1, then he deserves to lose his bag as well.

 

And, if he can find 5 to come back and steamroll the guy and force him off the map he isn't wrong either.

 

 

[Gatvin.6510]

I can't think of a good reason to duel in WvW. If you're doing it the way everyone in the middle does, then you're not getting any participation. You might as well tick siege or escort/choke yaks instead and actually help your team. Heck even just start building golems and make a push somewhere. There's way cooler things to do in WvW than meaningless fights that don't even generate war score.

[idolin.2831]

> @"Gatvin.6510" said:

> I can't think of a good reason to duel in WvW. If you're doing it the way everyone in the middle does, then you're not getting any participation. You might as well tick siege or escort/choke yaks instead and actually help your team. Heck even just start building golems and make a push somewhere. There's way cooler things to do in WvW than meaningless fights that don't even generate war score.

 

Not everyone cares about war score or helping their server or participation, some just want to fight other people, improving their 1v1 skills, and they find that more fun to do. There are days I spend 3 hours just escorting yaks and defending a cap to get a keep to t3, and there are days I do nothing and just stand around dueling and watch people duel.

 

People do whatever they want to do. Just because you think dueling is uncool doesn't mean others also do. What's hard to understand about that?

[Tibicia.8315]

I've observed the excuse for dueling near objectives as a means to 'accidentally' tap said objective. Usually, the duelers are not people I recognize, so I assume these are enemy players on alt accounts, or just people who don't WvW and are looking for a way to cheese points. (I play a lot of WvW, I recognize most people on my server who are actual allies.) Sometimes, it looks suspiciously like people on our server working with the enemy to allow gankers to stand out in the open and appear 'legit.' Honestly, it's all speculation as I don't know what they are doing or care. If they are near a tappable objective, I have taken to seiging them from the safety of said nearby objective. If they're dumb enough to stand in fire, I'm happy to accept bags.

 

Did have some of the duelers on my server, once, scream (all-caps) at me about dropping siege on their friends, because they were "just" dueling. I had never seen these guys on my server before. Since I didn't see them again after an hour of heavy barrage, then I would say mission accomplished. They're not my allies, so no loss.

[fuzzyp.6295]

I actually thought this was a joke at first. Really? Why is there such hatred to duelists?

 

Duelists aren't bothering the zerg. If they aren't bother you, why do you feel the need to bother them? If you interrupt a duel and lose, thats on you. IF you interrupt a duel and get ganked by onlookers, again, thats on you. Don't take your anger out on the players that pull back and watch because you are rudely interrupting a battle, and don't be surprised if people get nasty with you for ruining their fun. People like the 1v1 battles. You talk about repping a server; in a way having great duelists is repping your server to show what your individual players can do.

 

Duels also serve a practical part of WvW to test out your small scale/roaming builds. I spend 80% of my time in WvW roaming, 10% zerging and 10% dueling. Those duels help me learn how to use my build most effectively in combat during roaming against highly skill players. It also helps new players learn the ins and out of small scale battles with a class they might not be too familiar with, skills that could come in handy when trying to cap/save a camp or tower. Since we can't use the PvE armor combos in the sPvP lobby, dueling there has no benefit on our WvW builds. And as for dueling in OS or EOTM, yes there are lots of duelists that go there. But also alot of players don't log on just to duel; we log on to flip camps, to gank players in small teams, to cause havoc. Sitting around in OS and EOTM waiting for duels is boring and REALLY doesn't contribute to the WvW effort.

 

Duels are as close to open world PvP as we'll get in GW2. I love them, you are free to hate them. I don't find zerging all that enjoyable, but I don't complain about how it should be stopped or try to impose more small scale combat because that is what I enjoy. There are things in WvW for every style of gameplay and thats why I love it. You can duel, zerg, roam, havoc, run a guild group, defend, scout... whatever you enjoy, go out an enjoy it in WvW. Over 90% of duels take place far from the heavily traffic areas of the WvW Map, so I sincerely doubt duels are really effecting anyones enjoyment of WvW. Why should you be the one ruining the fun for other players then?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Ahhhh.... The good old Dueling in WvW Discussion. My rule: Duel on the road = one more bag for me.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Tibicia.8315" said:

 

>

> Did have some of the duelers on my server, once, scream (all-caps) at me about dropping siege on their friends, because they were "just" dueling.

 

Dropping siege on someone is actually more toxic than what they did to you. Congrats...you are now part of the problem :trollface: