Difficulty in final POF fights

[Mahou.3924]

> @"Kumiho.2756" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > > > > "pls anet let me one-shot the god of war"

> > > > > Some people really hate fun.

> > > >

> > > > And some people think they're the template for mankind or rather the lowest common denominator. People should really stop thinking that just because they can do something easily that everybody else must be able to do the same. It's really not nice to yourself to think so lowly of yourself.

> > > >

> > > > And what is fun? That really depends on the person.

> > >

> > > I am neither a template for mankind nor a dominator. Actually, I have problems, ecc... like everyone.

> > > I did not kill balthazar easily, not at all. It actually took me 3-4 tries to do it and i wasn't alone.

> > > It is just stupid to think you can easily solo kill the boss of the entire expansion, the god of war himself at the first try without even putting some effort in it.

> > > If you don't like that bit of challenge or the challenge is simply too much for you for whatever reason, you can team up with others. If you don't like challenges AND teaming up with others... then you should not play an MMORPG.

> > > Also, thinking you can kill everything with ease without help is... thinking you have no limits, thinking you are a god. THIS is thinking lowly.

> > >

> > > What is fun? Someone might think killing everything without sweating is fun, but i call it "oh look im so good. I am good, r- right?". I think fun is overcoming an adeguate challenge, and balthazar is well thought to satisfy the majority of the players, those who know their limits.

> >

> > I didn't say dominator but denominator. Those are two entirely different things. People tend to assume that because they can do something, anybody can. The reality is that we don't all have the same skills and when you are good at something, it might actually mean exactly that.

> >

> > The implication of saying that people can learn anything you can is that you actually see yourself as the minimum standard. Maybe you didn't think of it that way, but that's what it means when you say or indicate that what you can do, anybody else can do too. A lot of people can't because they either lack the capacity or interest.

> >

> > And that leads to fun. If you really don't get this combat stuff but otherwise enjoy the game, then it's fun when the mobs are easy to kill, whereas you might find that boring. So for you to say that some people really hate fun, is complete and utter nonsense, because your definition of fun is not a general definition. That's where you consider yourself the template for mankind because you are basically saying you decide what's fun for everybody.

> >

> > If that's all not what you meant, then perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully, but perhaps you don't care about that. I could then tell you that you need to learn to write but that wouldn't change your mind, would it?

>

> Press 1 to kill this mob...congratulation here is your legendary for your hard work.

> That's actually a better and funnier combat system

 

Nobody's talking about kitten legendary for "hard work" or simpleton phrases like that.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

 

> I love how your argument shows an incredible degree of projection. And it borders on hypocrisy, but you don't see it do you?

> Everyone in the forum is telling you that the difficulty is adequate or even easy.

 

The forums are a very small sampling of the player base. I'd even go so far as to say the more casual players don't even bother coming here. You, yourself, are projecting as well but that's ok. Many people do that.

 

I know that from my small group of friends that play GW2 with me, I am the only one who visits here. All of us are casual, and all of us struggle mightily with this content, so for us the difficulty is neither adequate nor easy. Just because there is a majority in this thread that believes the content is fine, does not necessarily speak for the majority of the player base.

 

Or perhaps it does. None of us has any way of knowing, which renders these kinds of arguments moot.

 

 

[Sartorius.3716]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

>

> I didn't say dominator but denominator. Those are two entirely different things. People tend to assume that because they can do something, anybody can. The reality is that we don't all have the same skills and when you are good at something, it might actually mean exactly that.

>

> The implication of saying that people can learn anything you can is that you actually see yourself as the minimum standard. Maybe you didn't think of it that way, but that's what it means when you say or indicate that what you can do, anybody else can do too. A lot of people can't because they either lack the capacity or interest.

>

Sorry, i misread and i know my english is kinda bad, but you are not even trying to read/understand what i'm saying since you skipped a large part of my argument. Well, the answer is just the same since you didn't even read what i wrote. I did tell you i found it very hard and that i couldn't kill him alone. I asked for help and, then, i and other 2 players killed him. Posting an lfg request is something EVERYONE can do.

 

> And that leads to fun. If you really don't get this combat stuff but otherwise enjoy the game, then it's fun when the mobs are easy to kill, whereas you might find that boring. So for you to say that some people really hate fun, is complete and utter nonsense, because your definition of fun is not a general definition. That's where you consider yourself the template for mankind because you are basically saying you decide what's fun for everybody.

>

I'm not considering myself a template for humanity, i'm just considering what this game is. Gw2 is an MMORPG, thus fighting along with others to overcome strong enemies is the core of the entire game. If you lack interest in combat, don't want to fight, ecc.. you can either ask for help so you can enjoy the story while someone else does the majority of the battle for you or you can simply uninstall gw2 and try something else because this is not the game for you. Actually, there are lots of games where you only have to enjoy the story without any fight or with little fights.

Thinking you must find what you are looking for in any game is just presumptous and asking to change something like the final battle against the god of war, while the vast majority of players liked it, is even more presumptous. This

 

> If that's all not what you meant, then perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully, but perhaps you don't care about that. I could then tell you that you need to learn to write but that wouldn't change your mind, would it?

I really do care about my english and i would appreciate if you could teach me something about it. Pm me in game to teach me something, if you feel like. Still, i don't get the connection between learning to write and changing my mind. Those are 2 totally different things.

 

I really think you should focus more on something else, rather than trying to convince someone else without any real argument.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

>

> > I love how your argument shows an incredible degree of projection. And it borders on hypocrisy, but you don't see it do you?

> > Everyone in the forum is telling you that the difficulty is adequate or even easy.

>

> The forums are a very small sampling of the player base. I'd even go so far as to say the more casual players don't even bother coming here. You, yourself, are projecting as well but that's ok. Many people do that.

>

> I know that from my small group of friends that play GW2 with me, I am the only one who visits here. All of us are casual, and all of us struggle mightily with this content, so for us the difficulty is neither adequate nor easy. Just because there is a majority in this thread that believes the content is fine, does not necessarily speak for the majority of the player base.

>

> Or perhaps it does. None of us has any way of knowing, which renders these kinds of arguments moot.

>

>

 

Again, if you're struggling with what's some of the easiest content in the game, maybe, it's not the right game for you, or you need to adapt your play-style to it. It's never supposed to be the other way around.

 

Yes, i'm the one projecting... I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad...

 

Look, here's how things work, you don't approach Dark souls the same way you approach guild wars 2, you don't approach guild wars 2 the same way you approach Candy Crush. You can't expect your approach not to change and ask the game to change for you.

If a piece of content which is specifically tuned by the devs to be completable as a single-player experience, which a lot of players will tell you is easily soloable, is too hard for you, on what's arguably the best profession for solo play, that means that your approach needs to change. Or quit. Those are your two choices. That's how games work.

 

**You're not owed a completion, that's for you to achieve.**

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Kumiho.2756" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > > > > "pls anet let me one-shot the god of war"

> > > > > Some people really hate fun.

> > > >

> > > > And some people think they're the template for mankind or rather the lowest common denominator. People should really stop thinking that just because they can do something easily that everybody else must be able to do the same. It's really not nice to yourself to think so lowly of yourself.

> > > >

> > > > And what is fun? That really depends on the person.

> > >

> > > I am neither a template for mankind nor a dominator. Actually, I have problems, ecc... like everyone.

> > > I did not kill balthazar easily, not at all. It actually took me 3-4 tries to do it and i wasn't alone.

> > > It is just stupid to think you can easily solo kill the boss of the entire expansion, the god of war himself at the first try without even putting some effort in it.

> > > If you don't like that bit of challenge or the challenge is simply too much for you for whatever reason, you can team up with others. If you don't like challenges AND teaming up with others... then you should not play an MMORPG.

> > > Also, thinking you can kill everything with ease without help is... thinking you have no limits, thinking you are a god. THIS is thinking lowly.

> > >

> > > What is fun? Someone might think killing everything without sweating is fun, but i call it "oh look im so good. I am good, r- right?". I think fun is overcoming an adeguate challenge, and balthazar is well thought to satisfy the majority of the players, those who know their limits.

> >

> > I didn't say dominator but denominator. Those are two entirely different things. People tend to assume that because they can do something, anybody can. The reality is that we don't all have the same skills and when you are good at something, it might actually mean exactly that.

> >

> > The implication of saying that people can learn anything you can is that you actually see yourself as the minimum standard. Maybe you didn't think of it that way, but that's what it means when you say or indicate that what you can do, anybody else can do too. A lot of people can't because they either lack the capacity or interest.

> >

> > And that leads to fun. If you really don't get this combat stuff but otherwise enjoy the game, then it's fun when the mobs are easy to kill, whereas you might find that boring. So for you to say that some people really hate fun, is complete and utter nonsense, because your definition of fun is not a general definition. That's where you consider yourself the template for mankind because you are basically saying you decide what's fun for everybody.

> >

> > If that's all not what you meant, then perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully, but perhaps you don't care about that. I could then tell you that you need to learn to write but that wouldn't change your mind, would it?

>

> Press 1 to kill this mob...congratulation here is your legendary for your hard work.

> That's actually a better and funnier combat system

 

You clearly don't get it. Personally, I don't think the bosses are too hard. I think the fights last too long and that ArenaNet just makes them artificially long with adding a lot of hit points on bosses.

 

But what I'm talking about is a game that caters to different groups of people. I never said anything about getting legendary items for killing a boss, easy or hard. It's about the story, not the reward. And in the story you're the hero...which in fact you're not really when you think about how powerful those bosses are. In fact their skills are far superior than yours. It's just that they're a simplistic AI that is programmed to do specific things that allows you to beat them.

 

I think it's good to have hard content in a game but as with anything, there's a time and a place for everything. And I think the story itself should be playable for casual players as they tend to care about story.

 

But there is a lot between hardcore and one-shotting everything. I would invite you to stop trying to use such binary thinking. It really isn't very intelligent and I'm sure that you're smarter than that.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Again, if you're struggling with what's some of the easiest content in the game, maybe, it's not the right game for you, or you need to adapt your play-style to it. It's never supposed to be the other way around.

>

> Yes, i'm the one projecting... I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad...

>

> Look, here's how things work, you don't approach Dark souls the same way you approach guild wars 2, you don't approach guild wars 2 the same way you approach Candy Crush. You can't expect your approach not to change and ask the game to change for you.

> If a piece of content which is specifically tuned by the devs to be completable as a single-player experience, which a lot of players will tell you is easily soloable, is too hard for you, on what's arguably the best profession for solo play, that means that your approach needs to change. Or quit. Those are your two choices. That's how games work.

>

> **You're not owed a completion, that's for you to achieve.**

 

Again, you are assuming the skill level that is comparable to your own. What you find easy, others less so. You say that a lot of players will say that this content is easily solo-able, but you fail to take into account a lot of players with the opposite view. If things were as simple for everyone as you find them, then there wouldn't be these threads on the forums. Instead, there are repetitive calls for solo content to be less intense than it has been of late.

 

And you make assumptions that me and my friends don't try to adapt. In both senses, I feel that you are wrong.

 

I'm sorry that you find these topics offensive to your obviously superior abilities. I thank you for your expertise on how things work. You are clearly in a state well above me.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Einsof.1457" said:

> This is astonishing. POF was incredibly easy...

 

I don't find it hard, tedious in some ways but not to hard. What I find astonishing is people's inability to recognize that not everybody is the same.

[Rhyse.8179]

Like all the encounters in the game, this one is just about knowing what's going on and knowing how to counter it.

 

You can read a guide to learn the required tricks if you like, or do it the hard way by trial and error. Have patience, don't sweat dying a few times (you can still beat the instance anyway), and commit to solving the puzzle. if you want a perfect run, you can go back to the instance later for the achievements after you have it down :)

[Xantaria.8726]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > Again, if you're struggling with what's some of the easiest content in the game, maybe, it's not the right game for you, or you need to adapt your play-style to it. It's never supposed to be the other way around.

> >

> > Yes, i'm the one projecting... I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad...

> >

> > Look, here's how things work, you don't approach Dark souls the same way you approach guild wars 2, you don't approach guild wars 2 the same way you approach Candy Crush. You can't expect your approach not to change and ask the game to change for you.

> > If a piece of content which is specifically tuned by the devs to be completable as a single-player experience, which a lot of players will tell you is easily soloable, is too hard for you, on what's arguably the best profession for solo play, that means that your approach needs to change. Or quit. Those are your two choices. That's how games work.

> >

> > **You're not owed a completion, that's for you to achieve.**

>

> Again, you are assuming the skill level that is comparable to your own. What you find easy, others less so. You say that a lot of players will say that this content is easily solo-able, but you fail to take into account a lot of players with the opposite view. If things were as simple for everyone as you find them, then there wouldn't be these threads on the forums. Instead, there are repetitive calls for solo content to be less intense than it has been of late.

>

> And you make assumptions that me and my friends don't try to adapt. In both senses, I feel that you are wrong.

>

> I'm sorry that you find these topics offensive to your obviously superior abilities. I thank you for your expertise on how things work. You are clearly in a state well above me.

 

So a handfull of people making a rant about 1-2 bosses in PoF actual equal the entire community? Wow im impressed.

The point he is making and you fail to understand is that no matter how much you change a fight, there will always be someone who still find it to hard. The question is: Is it to hard? Cause i dont know, but the forums are a little % of the entire community. You cant make any realistic statement of how many find it hard or dont. Only Arnet can.

Yet people here also demand that just cause they *cant* do it everyone cant do it, and it should therefore be nerfed. They shouldnt then be suprised if someone claims the oppesite.

Also: casual content doesnt mean not challanging. Or just spam aa to win. Balthasar was the final of an espec, therefore i would find it sad if he has the same lvl of difficulty as an lvl10 story trash boss.

[Khisanth.2948]

There are tedious stuff in the game but as the video above shows even with a naked character the fight is only 7 minutes long. 7 minutes for the final boss is not really all that long ...

[Kanok.3027]

Beat it with only a couple of deaths my first time around. It was annoying, but easy. Got even easier the second time around. Seriously, no deaths and almost no damage the second time around. If you find it to be too difficult, then you are probably someone that struggles at normal open world PvE, in which you might need to change your build/tactics. Also, if you are doing a meta build because you think it's great, but don't know how to properly survive in it, or full glass cannon and sit there and wail on the mob while soaking the damage up like a sponge only to get downed within a couple of hits, perhaps it's time to look into other armor stats until you can handle it better or learn to dodge better and mitigate damage using proper skills.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Xantaria.8726" said:

 

>

> So a handfull of people making a rant about 1-2 bosses in PoF actual equal the entire community? Wow im impressed.

> The point he is making and you fail to understand is that no matter how much you change a fight, there will always be someone who still find it to hard. The question is: Is it to hard? Cause i dont know, but the forums are a little % of the entire community. You cant make any realistic statement of how many find it hard or dont. Only Arnet can.

> Yet people here also demand that just cause they *cant* do it everyone cant do it, and it should therefore be nerfed. They shouldnt then be suprised if someone claims the oppesite.

Neither does a handful of people who find it easy equal the entire community. I've already stated that the forums represent a small fraction of the playerbase, so yeah, I'm impressed, too. I do not fail to miss anyone's point; yes statistics will prove that there will always be those of lower skill who find these encounters difficult.

 

But that misses the point.

 

The OP was commending the devs on the encounters and somewhere along the thread, it became derailed. To stay on OPs point, I found it difficult as well ( and yes, I completed it by making adjustments ). My sense is that there is a portion of the community who feels that content at this level of difficulty should not be made into solo instance play. There is other content with varying levels of difficulty (raids, high tier frac) that not everyone is able to manage so people are requesting that the difficulty in those elements not be forced into story content.

 

At the end of the day, ANet only knows how many attempt and complete solo content so it would seem that based on those metrics (and hopefully feedback here and on reddit) they will continue to develop as they deem necessary to continue to be profitable.

 

As a side note, and not aimed at anyone in specific but when these arguments do come up, it really does a disservice to put down those of lesser skill.

 

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > > "pls anet let me one-shot the god of war"

> > > Some people really hate fun.

> >

> > And some people think they're the template for mankind or rather the lowest common denominator. People should really stop thinking that just because they can do something easily that everybody else must be able to do the same. It's really not nice to yourself to think so lowly of yourself.

> >

> > And what is fun? That really depends on the person.

>

> I am neither a template for mankind nor a dominator. Actually, I have problems, ecc... like everyone.

> I did not kill balthazar easily, not at all. It actually took me 3-4 tries to do it and i wasn't alone.

> It is just stupid to think you can easily solo kill the boss of the entire expansion, the god of war himself at the first try without even putting some effort in it.

> If you don't like that bit of challenge or the challenge is simply too much for you for whatever reason, you can team up with others. If you don't like challenges AND teaming up with others... then you should not play an MMORPG.

> Also, thinking you can kill everything with ease without help is... thinking you have no limits, thinking you are a god. THIS is thinking lowly.

>

> What is fun? Someone might think killing everything without sweating is fun, but i call it "oh look im so good. I am good, r- right?". I think fun is overcoming an adeguate challenge, and balthazar is well thought to satisfy the majority of the players, those who know their limits.

 

I think the real joke here is that we're not a point where I can safely say people think GW2 is a power fantasy, where the game's real strength lies in Exploration. Not just "map exploring", but the build craft, the role play (which most people are doing wrong, and I mean that in all seriousness), the fundamental theme of "problem solving" that oozes from nearly every area of the game, even if that only hits various level of success.

 

And what boggles my mind the most is that the entire reason you are given Sohothin, is to remove the majority of the Class mechanics from your offensive equation, so the fight has a consistent setup for the players to succeed. That leaves the class's defense options wide open; and thinking about it now, that may highlight the problem....... enough players are so used to picking off easy targets, and avoiding real threats, that they don't understand their class's defense capabilities, or using controls to act as defense/shutdown. I recently pulled together a Condi SB build and spent a several hours roaming around POF maps.... at first I got my ass handed to me because it has no real defense, so I just added a stun break, changed my pets up and started using more Kiting in normal combat, and from that point on I only really get downed by things that would normally 1-shot a glass build anyway.

 

Now consider most players use very, very poorly optimized builds that don't leverage a build's effects into a coherent strategy. The only reason my SB survives is through positioning and second guessing Mob attacks.... damage ramp up is slow, defense affords me maybe 2-3 hits depending on how dangerous an enemy is, and I can still manage to systemically batter down some group events solo. None of what I'm doing is particularly hard, nor takes "twitchy" reflexes, and I still get overwhelmed pretty easily. Yet I can still take on some very rough Vets and HP Champs, because I understand things about the game, and can juggle things that exploit weaknesses in the AI.

 

The Balth fight can't be won easily with just overwhelming firepower (or at least it couldn't at launch). Its an endurance battle. One that asks the player the take their time and focus on finding the enemy's weaknesses and exploiting them.... and there are A LOT of things to take advantage of in that fight. A trait the majority of LS4 story missions display (even LS3 for that matter), that can normally be defeated by a bit of awareness. And even with the weird mechanical outliers, figuring out that cosmic quirk (and then working around it) makes the fight a breeze.

 

The majority of issues can be attributed to a knowledge problem with the players, and the remainder actual legit design problems. But the latter tends to be in areas concerning skill ceiling and DPS performance, very little of which has a direct effect on the casual end of the content spectrum, which tends to hand players solutions via the environment. But people more loudly fixate on failure then they do on a hard earned success.... hence why so much more attention is shifted toward things that cause even minor frustration, rather then addressing problems that have a bigger impact on smoothing out the skill curve.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > This is astonishing. POF was incredibly easy...

>

> I don't find it hard, tedious in some ways but not to hard. What I find astonishing is people's inability to recognize that not everybody is the same.

 

And that's a good thing... But just because not everyone is different, it doesn't mean that everything should be "dumbed down" (lacking a better expression, sorry if i offend) to the lowest standards. Again not everyone is owed a completion, and participation trophies are already abundant.

 

Arena net devs have said often enough that they carefully balance the living world bosses to be soloable by most people while retaining some fun (aka challenge). In many fights the challenge is simply figuring out the strategy that trivializes the encounter, others are more tank and spank. Balth is a bit of both.

Even if people find it challenging, the game is a social one, and what's designed to be beat in solo, can more easily be beat in a group, especially since they don't scale.

Otherwise, there's one last resort left. Realize that sometimes things aren't meant to be, and that there's a lot of other choices that might fit you better.

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

I hated those fights, as well as the previous story fight with Balthazar. Unnecessarily long, the AOE spam gets real tired real quick, and just plain tediously hard and boring at the same time. It sucked. Not fun.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said:

> I hated those fights, as well as the previous story fight with Balthazar. Unnecessarily long, the AOE spam gets real tired real quick, and just plain tediously hard and boring at the same time. It sucked. Not fun.

 

and how short do you think fights should be? For "The Departing" that takes around 5 minutes. 7 for the final fight. I haven't timed the one during "The Sacrifice" yet.

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Mahou.3924" said:

> > @"Kumiho.2756" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > > > > > "pls anet let me one-shot the god of war"

> > > > > > Some people really hate fun.

> > > > >

> > > > > And some people think they're the template for mankind or rather the lowest common denominator. People should really stop thinking that just because they can do something easily that everybody else must be able to do the same. It's really not nice to yourself to think so lowly of yourself.

> > > > >

> > > > > And what is fun? That really depends on the person.

> > > >

> > > > I am neither a template for mankind nor a dominator. Actually, I have problems, ecc... like everyone.

> > > > I did not kill balthazar easily, not at all. It actually took me 3-4 tries to do it and i wasn't alone.

> > > > It is just stupid to think you can easily solo kill the boss of the entire expansion, the god of war himself at the first try without even putting some effort in it.

> > > > If you don't like that bit of challenge or the challenge is simply too much for you for whatever reason, you can team up with others. If you don't like challenges AND teaming up with others... then you should not play an MMORPG.

> > > > Also, thinking you can kill everything with ease without help is... thinking you have no limits, thinking you are a god. THIS is thinking lowly.

> > > >

> > > > What is fun? Someone might think killing everything without sweating is fun, but i call it "oh look im so good. I am good, r- right?". I think fun is overcoming an adeguate challenge, and balthazar is well thought to satisfy the majority of the players, those who know their limits.

> > >

> > > I didn't say dominator but denominator. Those are two entirely different things. People tend to assume that because they can do something, anybody can. The reality is that we don't all have the same skills and when you are good at something, it might actually mean exactly that.

> > >

> > > The implication of saying that people can learn anything you can is that you actually see yourself as the minimum standard. Maybe you didn't think of it that way, but that's what it means when you say or indicate that what you can do, anybody else can do too. A lot of people can't because they either lack the capacity or interest.

> > >

> > > And that leads to fun. If you really don't get this combat stuff but otherwise enjoy the game, then it's fun when the mobs are easy to kill, whereas you might find that boring. So for you to say that some people really hate fun, is complete and utter nonsense, because your definition of fun is not a general definition. That's where you consider yourself the template for mankind because you are basically saying you decide what's fun for everybody.

> > >

> > > If that's all not what you meant, then perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully, but perhaps you don't care about that. I could then tell you that you need to learn to write but that wouldn't change your mind, would it?

> >

> > Press 1 to kill this mob...congratulation here is your legendary for your hard work.

> > That's actually a better and funnier combat system

>

> Nobody's talking about kitten legendary for "hard work" or simpleton phrases like that.

 

it is an exaggeration, but not an unfitting one.

[Mahou.3924]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> it is an exaggeration, but not an unfitting one.

 

I humbly disagree as (almost) nobody was talking about loot in any shape or form; not the thread opener, and neither did Gehenna.3625 to which the dude/dudette I quoted replied. Maybe it was supposed to be ironically or sarcstically funny, but it's overall low-quality effort.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Boss fights take too long due to the massive skill/build disparity between players. They could easily prevent this outcome by adding hard DPS checks to encounters the way they do in more difficult content (e.g. raids). Pass/Fail. Either you bring a build that deals sufficient damage to pass the DPS check and enough skill to survive with it, or you fail the encounter. Of course, this would place some pretty severe restrictions on the type of build players could bring to the encounter and ensure that many players would be unable to complete their storyline at all.

 

The current design is a compromise. You're free to take as much time as you like and die as much as you need to. But this also feeds the perception that storyline bosses are nothing but HP sponges that repeat the same mechanics for an obnoxiously long period of time.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Boss fights take too long due to the massive skill/build disparity between players. They could easily prevent this outcome by adding hard DPS checks to encounters the way they do in more difficult content (e.g. raids). Pass/Fail. Either you bring a build that deals sufficient damage to pass the DPS check and enough skill to survive with it, or you fail the encounter. Of course, this would place some pretty severe restrictions on the type of build players could bring to the encounter and ensure that many players would be unable to complete their storyline at all.

>

> The current design is a compromise. You're free to take as much time as you like and die as much as you need to. But this also feeds the perception that storyline bosses are nothing but HP sponges that repeat the same mechanics for an obnoxiously long period of time.

 

Enrage timer is just lazy design. Instead of coming up with something interesting for why a fight needs to be completed in a certain amount of time lets just slap a timer on it and call it a day.

 

The final fight also took a much nicer approach. Instead of requiring everyone to have a minimum DPS it provided a way for everyone one to achieve a certain minimum DPS instead. It also doesn't force it on you unlike some of the other annoying story steps so if you think you can do better you are free to. It also provided plenty of time and targets to practice the skills on.

 

 

 

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Mahou.3924" said:

> > @"Algreg.3629" said:

> > it is an exaggeration, but not an unfitting one.

>

> I humbly disagree as (almost) nobody was talking about loot in any shape or form; not the thread opener, and neither did Gehenna.3625 to which the dude/dudette I quoted replied. Maybe it was supposed to be ironically or sarcstically funny, but it's overall low-quality effort.

 

no, noone was talking about the loot. And that was not the point. And I very much doubt you do not know that yourself.

[Kaynide.5387]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Boss fights take too long due to the massive skill/build disparity between players. They could easily prevent this outcome by adding hard DPS checks to encounters the way they do in more difficult content (e.g. raids). Pass/Fail. ....

 

Actually this makes for an interesting point. Rather than a pass/fail, why not a time trial like we have in some missions already? As in, defeat Balthazar in under 4 minutes (or whatever), get achievement/thing. Something comparable to a weapon/arm,or skin. Black Lion key?

 

I completed HoT and PoF with mostly Exotic tier equip, a few ascended jewelry bits and I think 1 or 2 pieces of rare. From the Wiki, there is quite a gap in stats between my gear and fully ascended/legendary gear.

 

That said, I still think I should be able to clear the content in a reasonable amount of time and not slogged down, but that's not necessarily fair to those who have invested in top tier gear either...so I feel the above is a pretty fair middle ground.

 

 

 

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > > This is astonishing. POF was incredibly easy...

> >

> > I don't find it hard, tedious in some ways but not to hard. What I find astonishing is people's inability to recognize that not everybody is the same.

>

> And that's a good thing... But just because not everyone is different, it doesn't mean that everything should be "dumbed down" (lacking a better expression, sorry if i offend) to the lowest standards. Again not everyone is owed a completion, and participation trophies are already abundant.

>

> Arena net devs have said often enough that they carefully balance the living world bosses to be soloable by most people while retaining some fun (aka challenge). In many fights the challenge is simply figuring out the strategy that trivializes the encounter, others are more tank and spank. Balth is a bit of both.

> Even if people find it challenging, the game is a social one, and what's designed to be beat in solo, can more easily be beat in a group, especially since they don't scale.

> Otherwise, there's one last resort left. Realize that sometimes things aren't meant to be, and that there's a lot of other choices that might fit you better.

 

How is it a good thing that people cannot see that different people like different things?

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > > > This is astonishing. POF was incredibly easy...

> > >

> > > I don't find it hard, tedious in some ways but not to hard. What I find astonishing is people's inability to recognize that not everybody is the same.

> >

> > And that's a good thing... But just because not everyone is different, it doesn't mean that everything should be "dumbed down" (lacking a better expression, sorry if i offend) to the lowest standards. Again not everyone is owed a completion, and participation trophies are already abundant.

> >

> > Arena net devs have said often enough that they carefully balance the living world bosses to be soloable by most people while retaining some fun (aka challenge). In many fights the challenge is simply figuring out the strategy that trivializes the encounter, others are more tank and spank. Balth is a bit of both.

> > Even if people find it challenging, the game is a social one, and what's designed to be beat in solo, can more easily be beat in a group, especially since they don't scale.

> > Otherwise, there's one last resort left. Realize that sometimes things aren't meant to be, and that there's a lot of other choices that might fit you better.

>

> How is it a good thing that people cannot see that different people like different things?

 

Well, it's a good thing that different people like different thing, otherwise PvP and WvW would be emptier.

There's a difference between enjoying different content than other people, and asking for content to be changed because you don't enjoy it while other people do.

That's the case with OP. Op doesn't enjoy it, and despite the vast majority of people saying otherwise, it has to be changed, because OP is (unlike her own accusations towards others) establishing him/herself has the paragon of what the "common folk" is.

 

I'm all for diversity, i'm just against people who dislike the content breaking it in the name of said"diversity". That kind of attitude broke PvP, broke the Personal story, and who knows what else.

In the name of having groups of people (be it the majority or minority) that didn't enjoy a particular content we've lost team ranked PvP, because the "majority" (as in the most players regardless of being PvP or PvE players) voted against it. Since then PvP has only gone from the second most successful game mode in GW2 to a broken half-shell of what it was.

Again, in the name of "inclusivity" the Personal story was redesigned in conjunction with the New Player Experience changes. That not only made the story less clear and more jumbled. It ended up removing what's arguably the best chapter of the story for a long time, and completely shattered the convergence between the Personal and Dungeon story lines by making Arah Story mode just a chapter of the personal story.

 

I'm not against improving what's bad. But it's just counter-productive to break something that works, just because of a group of people who have virtually no interest in it already.

 

And there's no better example for this kind of mentality than this post. Personal story is already deliberately balanced and tested so that it is soloable (easily or not). It also doesn't scale, so that those that can't solo it, and this being a MMORPG, can group up to tackle it.

But there's someone that doesn't want to invest into learning how to beat it to solo it, and apparently, can't come up with a way to get a group and complete it. But all others, who do either of those things, must see content they enjoy be dumbed down and nerfed just to appease someone, who is very apparent doesn't have any interest in pursuing the game to it's fullest. Because i mean, if they can't get a build going to solo a personal story, do you think they'll be doing Raids, High Tier Fractals, or any other end-game content? And not doing that, do you think they're the kind of player who will be dedicated enough to GW2 to be a source of revenue?

 

I, personally, don't think that a person that isn't invested enough to learn the easiest solo character in the game, so that they can solo what's a fairly easy encounter, will be invested enough to spend money in the game.

 

 

[KeoLegend.5132]

i loved the difficulty and the lenght. We were fighting a freaking god! The only lack of realism was my character dying tons of times and ressurecting like nothing happened xD

 

but 10/10 on both of those fights and relax, everybody died alot on them