WvW Roaming Class Standings

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> Skill 3 with sword: I mean usually, when you dodge an skill as its started you ignore all of its effects if its a targeted skill, unless its a channelled skill. With rev sword 3 its different, you cant react and dodge the "initial hit". So lets say rev uses sword 3, you dodge the first hit -> the skill should not activate fully and you should take no harm. Its like evading a backstab or whatever. Then on the other side it IS a channeled skill of sorts, but you cant evade all of its damage after it started with a dodge because the animation is too long and also you cant properly interrupt the "channeled" skill because the rev is evading. This skill goes against any other design principles in the game based on multiple points of view.

>

> About OH sword, yeah it is very strong, but its just a numbers thing here in my opionion. Its usually a big difference between a skill being OP on a design level - like rev sword 3 (=no logical counterplay, too many stacked effects, does not function like any normal skill - the skill is not fine designed and is OP regardless of number changes) - or just on a numbers level - like rev OH sword (= balanceable by damage modifiers, cooldown, etc. the skill itself is fine in design, its number are off) . Thief has some nasty engage options as well as other classes, but that fact alone doenst make them OP.

 

Rev's sword 3 absolutely has counterplay, its main one being positioning. It seems you are talking more in terms of small scale, which is where the counterplay will begin to be more apparent. See a Rev Sword 3 you? Move back towards your allies and completely kitten them over as they are now in the danger zone and separated from their allies.

Sword 3 can easily be a death sentence if used incorrectly. The moment the skill goes through, they are committed to your positioning. Use that to your advantage.

 

Even in 1v1s, the evade frame has a flat amount of time, and at the end you know they will be right next to you. Use that to set up CC or burst.

 

Also, it is pretty easily interruptible.

[XECOR.2814]

Scpurge op roaming...as compared to npc.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > Skill 3 with sword: I mean usually, when you dodge an skill as its started you ignore all of its effects if its a targeted skill, unless its a channelled skill. With rev sword 3 its different, you cant react and dodge the "initial hit". So lets say rev uses sword 3, you dodge the first hit -> the skill should not activate fully and you should take no harm. Its like evading a backstab or whatever. Then on the other side it IS a channeled skill of sorts, but you cant evade all of its damage after it started with a dodge because the animation is too long and also you cant properly interrupt the "channeled" skill because the rev is evading. This skill goes against any other design principles in the game based on multiple points of view.

> >

> > About OH sword, yeah it is very strong, but its just a numbers thing here in my opionion. Its usually a big difference between a skill being OP on a design level - like rev sword 3 (=no logical counterplay, too many stacked effects, does not function like any normal skill - the skill is not fine designed and is OP regardless of number changes) - or just on a numbers level - like rev OH sword (= balanceable by damage modifiers, cooldown, etc. the skill itself is fine in design, its number are off) . Thief has some nasty engage options as well as other classes, but that fact alone doenst make them OP.

>

> Rev's sword 3 absolutely has counterplay, its main one being positioning. It seems you are talking more in terms of small scale, which is where the counterplay will begin to be more apparent. See a Rev Sword 3 you? Move back towards your allies and completely kitten them over as they are now in the danger zone and separated from their allies.

> Sword 3 can easily be a death sentence if used incorrectly. The moment the skill goes through, they are committed to your positioning. Use that to your advantage.

>

> Even in 1v1s, the evade frame has a flat amount of time, and at the end you know they will be right next to you. Use that to set up CC or burst.

>

> Also, it is pretty easily interruptible.

 

Ever since I picked up Revenant about a month ago, I've learned to hate this skill. It is honestly a lot harder to use than I initially thought because far too often people move out of range before it fully activates or you simply get interrupted by a seemingly random (as in not intentionally interrupting it) CC.

 

It's a very strong skill due to how much damage it can do, it's low cooldown and the fact that it follows your target and evades while doing so. But if someone isn't familiar with using it, I promise it isn't as good as it seems either. I'm always a little hesitant to push it tbh.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Mirage

Soulbeast

Holo

Thief( lower cuz for what it offers may as well be mirage)

SB

Rev

My opinion

[Pelto.9364]

I consider the camp defending as roaming - and that the camp defending should be a core part of the wvw gameplay. Wvw should not be designed for zerging only. So, please tune down the power creepness so that medium skilled players can defend camps. A camp defender buff would be welcome.

[coro.3176]

> @"Pelto.9364" said:

> I consider the camp defending as roaming - and that the camp defending should be a core part of the wvw gameplay. Wvw should not be designed for zerging only. So, please tune down the power creepness so that medium skilled players can defend camps. A camp defender buff would be welcome.

 

ugh. no. You already have the camp NPCs as a "defender buff" (and the objective aura if claimed). If you can't defend the camp with that advantage, you deserve to lose it. Holding a camp 1v2 or 1v3 by exploiting terrain and using the camp npcs is a reasonably common roaming situation. It's very doable.

 

Sure, often times they're good players and you lose the camp. It happens. It should happen. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Now, if you're losing the camp 1v30, that's ALSO fine. You'll flip it back once they leave. You're spending 1 person's time to keep it flipped. They're spending 30 people's time to go flip it. It's overall a huge efficiency gain for your server.

[Blackarps.1974]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> Mirage (Both Power & Condi)

> Thief (all power variants)

> Soulbeast (Longbow+GS with mobility pet(s))

>

> These are the definitive top 3 classes when it comes to roaming, all of them combine very high damage with very low risk and none of them have a large amount of bad matchups (and you can just avoid them cause mobility).

>

> As you can note they are all incredibly linear and non-reactive builds which is what the current meta is.

 

Best answer with correct order. Big damage, good kiting, easy disengage for all three. Perfect for roaming. There are others that work like spellbreaker, base guard, etc. but those three are still top tier.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> Also, it is pretty easily interruptible.

While I don't think Rev sword 3 is op. Easily interruptable isn't really true. Some classes like ele can interrupt, a lot of classes can't

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > Also, it is pretty easily interruptible.

> While I don't think Rev sword 3 is op. Easily interruptable isn't really true. Some classes like ele can interrupt, a lot of classes can't

>

the beginning where the rev jumps up a bit before he turns into mist is interruptable with any CC, so with any profession.

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > > Also, it is pretty easily interruptible.

> > While I don't think Rev sword 3 is op. Easily interruptable isn't really true. Some classes like ele can interrupt, a lot of classes can't

> >

> the beginning where the rev jumps up a bit before he turns into mist is interruptable with any CC, so with any profession.

>

 

I assumed he meant after the skill actually started for some reason, if he means before it starts that sentence makes a lot more sense, cause once it's started it really isn't all that easy to interrupt

[Klypto.1703]

Hopefully anet removes this marking crap its extended the problem watchtowers have done where resets are the only active days of wvw rest of its just a dead zone.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > > > Also, it is pretty easily interruptible.

> > > While I don't think Rev sword 3 is op. Easily interruptable isn't really true. Some classes like ele can interrupt, a lot of classes can't

> > >

> > the beginning where the rev jumps up a bit before he turns into mist is interruptable with any CC, so with any profession.

> >

>

> I assumed he meant after the skill actually started for some reason, if he means before it starts that sentence makes a lot more sense, cause once it's started it really isn't all that easy to interrupt

 

Yeah I meant before lol.

[gebrechen.5643]

Imho all of the "fotm" classes in roaming need serious re-working.

Mirages: Damage needs to be toned down by at least 30% overall. Clone generation needs to be looked at but seems way to good with the shatter effects and damage

Thieves in general: Either you tone down the damage or you cut mobility and stealth options

Engineer: Take away cc options and rework invulnerabilities.

Warrior: Damage needs to be toned down, defensives need a re-work. Defender Runes need to go completely For spellbreakers "full counter" needs a re-work in form of "you don't get the benefits if your opponent does not blow your full counter. You shouldn't get a passive reward for pressing a button just because it's ready

Chrono: Get rid of some of the invulnerabilities, cut damage (see mirage)

Ranger/Soulbeast: take away some of the damage multiplyers, get rid of unblockable

Druid: tone down buff application if you don't spec into heavy support. Make it a choice to either be a buff bot and healer or a dps, not both

 

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Klypto.1703" said:

> Hopefully anet removes this marking kitten its extended the problem watchtowers have done where resets are the only active days of wvw rest of its just a dead zone.

 

No....finally stealth classes have to actually play better rather than hiding in semi/perma stealth and bursting people down in 2 hits. WvW has been refreshing with less lame deadeyes around.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> Imho all of the "fotm" classes in roaming need serious re-working.

> Mirages: Damage needs to be toned down by at least 30% overall. Clone generation needs to be looked at but seems way to good with the shatter effects and damage

> Thieves in general: Either you tone down the damage or you cut mobility and stealth options

> Engineer: Take away cc options and rework invulnerabilities.

> Warrior: Damage needs to be toned down, defensives need a re-work. Defender Runes need to go completely For spellbreakers "full counter" needs a re-work in form of "you don't get the benefits if your opponent does not blow your full counter. You shouldn't get a passive reward for pressing a button just because it's ready

> Chrono: Get rid of some of the invulnerabilities, cut damage (see mirage)

> Ranger/Soulbeast: take away some of the damage multiplyers, get rid of unblockable

> Druid: tone down buff application if you don't spec into heavy support. Make it a choice to either be a buff bot and healer or a dps, not both

>

 

Agreed on most points although i am still very amused how people think Defender runes on warrior is OP. Clearly they NEVER used Defender runes before the November patch. It was WAAAAAAAY better before then. Now its sub par with much better alternative runes out there. I have a full set of ascended gear with Defender runes which i used extensively before the patch. Now they sit in the bank gathering dust.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > Skill 3 with sword: I mean usually, when you dodge an skill as its started you ignore all of its effects if its a targeted skill, unless its a channelled skill. With rev sword 3 its different, you cant react and dodge the "initial hit". So lets say rev uses sword 3, you dodge the first hit -> the skill should not activate fully and you should take no harm. Its like evading a backstab or whatever. Then on the other side it IS a channeled skill of sorts, but you cant evade all of its damage after it started with a dodge because the animation is too long and also you cant properly interrupt the "channeled" skill because the rev is evading. This skill goes against any other design principles in the game based on multiple points of view.

> >

> > About OH sword, yeah it is very strong, but its just a numbers thing here in my opionion. Its usually a big difference between a skill being OP on a design level - like rev sword 3 (=no logical counterplay, too many stacked effects, does not function like any normal skill - the skill is not fine designed and is OP regardless of number changes) - or just on a numbers level - like rev OH sword (= balanceable by damage modifiers, cooldown, etc. the skill itself is fine in design, its number are off) . Thief has some nasty engage options as well as other classes, but that fact alone doenst make them OP.

>

> Rev's sword 3 absolutely has counterplay, its main one being positioning. It seems you are talking more in terms of small scale, which is where the counterplay will begin to be more apparent. See a Rev Sword 3 you? Move back towards your allies and completely kitten them over as they are now in the danger zone and separated from their allies.

> Sword 3 can easily be a death sentence if used incorrectly. The moment the skill goes through, they are committed to your positioning. Use that to your advantage.

>

> Even in 1v1s, the evade frame has a flat amount of time, and at the end you know they will be right next to you. Use that to set up CC or burst.

>

> Also, it is pretty easily interruptible.

 

Not to mention stealth breaks it.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I wrote this in the mesmer forum but thought I would share it here too.

 

Some mesmers currently prefer a hybrid build as it is superior in handling a larger variety of enemy builds.

 

However this also shows how strong Mirage is in both power and condi aspects, which makes hybrid builds exceptionally effective. Because even when you split stats between power, precision, ferocity and condi, the overall damage dished out is still high enough to overwhelm even sustain builds. With the exception of perhaps a well played boon beast or weaver.

 

This is something that not many other classes can boast. Most other classes currently have strong power builds but weaker condi builds and thus have less efficient hybrid builds compared to a mesmer.

 

I'm not asking for nerfs, (because my favoured necro has a rather even chance in fights against Mirages currently heh) but rather that I would love to see this hybrid choice extended to all the other classes to have better build variety and more unpredictability when roaming.

 

Currently when I see a warrior or engineer for example, I instantly know they are power builds. Revenants and thieves are also largely the same as above though I've seen one effective hybrid renegade roamer recently. I could say the same for rangers and guardians. Exceptions being necro and elementalists who have effective hybrid builds as well.

 

But all things considered, mesmer has the most unpredictability as a foe as they are equally deadly going power, condi or hybrid. This is something I hope can be extended to all classes.

[TwiceDead.1963]

Roaming huh?

 

Let's see... ctrl + F..?

 

"Thief"... 27 results. Yeah, seems accurate.

"Deadeye", 9, alright. Hm. I expected more results.

 

"Ranger" ... 12? No that doesn't seem right.

"Soulbeast"? 22! That's more like it, way to go Rangers.

 

"Mesmer", 9??? Haha! Nope.

"Mirage". 37! That's the number I was expecting.

 

I had my fun. Got no input. I'll be off then!

[Atticus.7194]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> Warrior: Damage needs to be toned down, defensives need a re-work. Defender Runes need to go completely For spellbreakers "full counter" needs a re-work in form of "you don't get the benefits if your opponent does not blow your full counter. You shouldn't get a passive reward for pressing a button just because it's ready

 

Uh you don't understand how full counter works, you have to be hit while it's up and be in range to hit someone, there's tons of ways to dodge it if you're not a spaz trying to hard burst down a spellbreaker. Also we don't get a passive reward for pressing a button when it's ready, in fact we sacrifice an adrenaline bar making our bursts much less powerful. You need to be careful on when you spellbreak to actually make it good, making sure you've used your F1 so you can get your spellbreak off to reset it and hope that both connect.

 

 

 

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Atticus.7194" said:

> > @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > Warrior: Damage needs to be toned down, defensives need a re-work. Defender Runes need to go completely For spellbreakers "full counter" needs a re-work in form of "you don't get the benefits if your opponent does not blow your full counter. You shouldn't get a passive reward for pressing a button just because it's ready

>

> Uh you don't understand how full counter works, you have to be hit while it's up and be in range to hit someone, there's tons of ways to dodge it if you're not a spaz trying to hard burst down a spellbreaker. Also we don't get a passive reward for pressing a button when it's ready, in fact we sacrifice an adrenaline bar making our bursts much less powerful. You need to be careful on when you spellbreak to actually make it good, making sure you've used your F1 so you can get your spellbreak off to reset it and hope that both connect.

>

>

>

 

Hmm. Not true, with burst mastery that 1 bar of adrenaline dosnt matter, also even if you mindless spam fc and it gets triggered but it doesn't hit/hurt anyone it still procs adriline health.

[gebrechen.5643]

That's the point. Thanks for making that clear.