Dungeons

[Linken.6345]

it was always stack buff dps even back in vanilla.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

> @"Tormod the Fox.2368" said:

> > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> > The old dungeons are extremely bad designed: Too hard for noobs, too trivial for veterans. There is absolutely no middleground. But they won't touch them anymore. That's why we have fractals. Still I think dungeons add flavour to the game. They usually are themed after the areas of the new expansion which I like. I would appreciate some new dungeons in the new areas be cause of this.

>

> Fractals have same issue. There's no middle ground. I'm a dedicated PvX guy. I have been here since pre-launch of vanilla, and I can faithfully say there is no place for me in fractals. Taking mind that I pug only, then T1-3 are too easy, and T4 is too difficult. Instabilities are a gimmicky annoyance rather than a fun meaningful mechanic. Pugs don't learn to stack. Meta is same as vanilla, but now it's stack, buff, and dps rather than just dps. Newer fractals that came out since HoT are longer and have steeper learning curves along with not so original and fun content. Who wants to bounce a ball on their head to advance to the next stage? Add this altogether along with how you can farm easier and more in open world, and fractals have just become trivial for a long time vet.

 

Well, but at least you can see the content with lower tiers, can't you? Even if it is too easy for you.

 

That said, I am in a guild and we do mostly T4. It is quite trivial with the right setup.

[Zania.8461]

Team who designed old dungeons is gone. The tools used to build them are outdated. Trying to revamp them will likely take more time and effort than rebuilding them completely. Anyone who ever tried to wade through someone else's code on a legacy system will know why this is very unlikely to happen.

 

All the more recent (last few years) changes to them was doing things like placing invisible walls to prevent the most glaring exploits. Although to this point I still don't understand the necessity in axing f/u path in TA.

 

ANet also stated that no new dungeons will be added - they will simply add fractals now. New(er) tools and the team that can integrate them better with their current content.

[Excursion.9752]

Saying things will never change because the system they were designed on is outdated is not really ok with me. Main reason is that they are still in the game and people still do the content and would probably do more if they were reworked. I see no reason to leave something in the game that the developers feel is outdated and left to rot. If they are going to start bringing everything "new" to fractals then they should perform the rework of each dungeon one at a time and then have it both in fractals and in the open world at the same time. The one you would encounter in the open world would be Tier 1 fractal with no instabilities and if you wanted to up the difficulty then hop into fractals and do the content there.

 

There is a lot to be thought about there like the dungeon currency which could easily be added in the chests once you complete a fractal. Also what to do about the multiple paths which there are a few options that could be done there if they did a total rework.

[Talindra.4958]

well they can always make solo arah reward better gold or special dungeon item exchange for items that no other part of game will reward.

[Tormod the Fox.2368]

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> > @"Tormod the Fox.2368" said:

> > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> > > The old dungeons are extremely bad designed: Too hard for noobs, too trivial for veterans. There is absolutely no middleground. But they won't touch them anymore. That's why we have fractals. Still I think dungeons add flavour to the game. They usually are themed after the areas of the new expansion which I like. I would appreciate some new dungeons in the new areas be cause of this.

> >

> > Fractals have same issue. There's no middle ground. I'm a dedicated PvX guy. I have been here since pre-launch of vanilla, and I can faithfully say there is no place for me in fractals. Taking mind that I pug only, then T1-3 are too easy, and T4 is too difficult. Instabilities are a gimmicky annoyance rather than a fun meaningful mechanic. Pugs don't learn to stack. Meta is same as vanilla, but now it's stack, buff, and dps rather than just dps. Newer fractals that came out since HoT are longer and have steeper learning curves along with not so original and fun content. Who wants to bounce a ball on their head to advance to the next stage? Add this altogether along with how you can farm easier and more in open world, and fractals have just become trivial for a long time vet.

>

> Well, but at least you can see the content with lower tiers, can't you? Even if it is too easy for you.

>

> That said, I am in a guild and we do mostly T4. It is quite trivial with the right setup.

 

Sorry for not making my point clear, but I will try to set it straight now. The fractals have no 'middle ground' or good feeling difficulty level where I feel challenged, and there are several reasons why this is.

 

1.) Pug-ing. Essentially a personal choice has gotten worse. Ever since I've been doing fractals, 50% of fractals I farmed was with pugs. Sometimes this was a cause of guilds not being active and guilds are harder to find now a days to be active enough; this is mostly a cause of GW2 starting it's death cycle. Without getting too far into why pugs are getting worse, let us just say that new Fractals are getting more difficult and less easier to learn from watching and reaction time.

 

2.) Design. I can see this across all boards of the game. Anet is suffering with too many 'pots' on the stove. Their design is lazy, sloppy, and downright unrefined. The instabilities are becoming more gimmicky then when they were first introduced, and Anet has to apologize after releasing some of them. They say, "that was an unintended [fractal instability combo]". As said in point one, the 'watch and learn' aspect of the game is nearly impossible with the new fractals; unless someone in the pug knows exactly what to do and texts in chat instructions, there is no in-game learning possibility.

 

So, as you can see, it's not a difficulty problem that we are seeing here, it's a messy heap of game abuse by Anet that is causing content to not be fun. It has hurt the game ever since they have added raids and now are creating more raid-type fractals.

I have no problem with difficulty though; as long as it's rewarding for time spent and is reasonably learned from a well made design. I remember when I played TA-Aether dungeon path. It was difficult **at first**, and it was a bitch to run people through, but was able to learn it myself. It was fun to carry pug people or with steady group of friends. The only issue was the rewards were playing a game of chance, and Anet completely abandoned dungeons afterwards because of the community out-cry of the difficulty level. And this particular path was made after launch, so please do not bring up they did not have a dungeon team.

For a veteran like me to say he'd rather farm dungeons at the moment than to play fractals, then it's a dam shame that Anet has neglected rather than at least up-keep part of there game called Dungeons. I'm not a casual, but I'd rather play a casual focused area with appropriate and non-nerfed rewards. To be the upmost honest here, fractals t1-3 just arn't worth the trouble for someone like me. The rewards are not appropriate and the content is just gimmicky.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

You are absolutely right about pugging. It's a pain in the ass. Pugs are so bad that T2 or T3 feel significantly harder than T4 with a non-pug group. It's usually just a breeze. We run mostly not-so-meta builds like auramancer (me), 1-2 scourges, a guardian, a chrono and a druid. It's really significant how you can carry a whole group with a tempest auramancer. Love it.

[Ryan.7583]

**Fractals** beside raids are the **worst content** in this game. Ultra **boring**, with **NO story** (or better their story is a bad joke..).

Outdated tool? If they can create new fractals they **can create lore-based dungeon**.

Who **remember the lore of first living world?** or second? I don't. We just played it once and its all if they had dungeons which people will be still playing the story will be remembered.

For last two years this big universe is not really working together to give people image of that big world and so many options to play - we are constrained to newest content only (about which **we will forget** in next 4 months) or part of game in which we **are forced to play **for rewards (fractals).

 

Dungeons are one of few lost in time, good end-game content which had potential to show us deeper lore of GW2 world.

[Skotlex.7580]

All I would like out of dungeons is to polish the vendor in lion's arch. Too many menus to pick the right vendor window. :(

 

if it were up to me, I'd make two vendor windows: one for armor, one for gear, and each would have multiple tabs to pick the dungeon rewards you want. To reduce clutter I'd just remove the sub 80 gear (is anybody still buying those? I would consider them a waste of tokens :o...) and consolidate the rest of rewards with the gears.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ryan.7583" said:

> **Fractals** beside raids are the **worst content** in this game. Ultra **boring**, with **NO story** (or better their story is a bad joke..).

This point of view always confuses me. I don't see any more story in dungeon explorable paths than for fractals. And I don't know people who repeat the _story_ part of the dungeon, except because it's required for a character to gain access to the explorable paths.

 

> Outdated tool? If they can create new fractals they **can create lore-based dungeon**.

The could. They've chosen to focus on one, not split their time between both.

 

> Who **remember the lore of first living world?** or second? I don't. We just played it once and its all if they had dungeons which people will be still playing the story will be remembered.

Actually, I remember LS1 far better than the stories of any of the dungeons. I was invested in LS1; I've never felt connected to the dungeons, as they've always felt like afterthought. I've been to most of the dungeons dozens of times, maybe 100s for some paths, but I couldn't tell you who those three people are in AC nor why they can't agree on a Cohesive Plan. I know there' an Inquest base in CoE, because of the open world quest chain to get in, but I've never been quite clear as to what they are trying to do there.

 

(Yes, when I need to, I can wiki for the answers. The point is: I don't get any of that from _playing_.)

 

> Dungeons are one of few lost in time, good end-game content which had potential to show us deeper lore of GW2 world.

I'm glad it works like that for you. For me, Fractals offer the same level of lore and are more fun.

 

[Ryan.7583]

Sure it is just my point of view.

What I mean is that in GW2 core dungeon play sometimes role of additional content which developed the main lore for example we can see how Rytlock and Logan started to trust each over.

Fractals are just bundle of short stories missions with bad lore and give nothing to this game other than place to "farm" daily. All I'm telling is that there could be fractals like content which will be in every new map with lore connected to that episode (like dungeons) but can be accessed from fractals pre-missions instance and from maps itself.

I never mentioned that I want dungeons same as in core, but content like dungeons with what's good from fractals.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @"Ryan.7583" said:

> Sure it is just my point of view.

> What I mean is that in GW2 core dungeon play sometimes role of additional content which developed the main lore for example we can see how Rytlock and Logan started to trust each over.

> Fractals are just bundle of short stories missions with bad lore and give nothing to this game other than place to "farm" daily. All I'm telling is that there could be fractals like content which will be in every new map with lore connected to that episode (like dungeons) but can be accessed from fractals pre-missions instance and from maps itself.

> I never mentioned that I want dungeons same as in core, but content like dungeons with what's good from fractals.

 

I don't understand this sentiment at all. Lore pertaining to the Zhaitan story arc only occurred in Story mode dungeons; every other mode (i.e. 25 Explorable path versus 8 story modes) are, as you bemoan in Fractals, "short stories [sic] missions." Before Fractals, dungeons--or rather, specific Explorable paths--were nothing more than farm paths, which is again something you bemoan of Fractals.

 

Further, what do you mean by "content like dungeons" anyway? Because it sounds like you're simply married to the label, rather than accepting that Dungeons and Fractals serve the same purpose by giving players five-player instanced content to play in.

[Ryan.7583]

Exactly! That is the point that fractals are dungeons but they are not connected to lore of GW2. Even explorable paths have some addition to lore - for example Arah. Fractals have their own story not connected to game or they do it by very short fragments of past, fragments which aren't so interesting..

For me story content in GW2 is poor compared to GW1, that's why we need something which will improve it not change to another story which is even worse.

I don't like idea about fractals and I never told that all dungeons was perfect, but for me idea about them was better that fractals and Anet should join whats good in both and made better content.

 

To sum up I can't see reason why not add dungeon/fractal like content with even only "story" path to each new map with daily rewards like in fractals.

[Teratus.2859]

I don't think Anet would ever take a look at dungeons again and that does bug me a little in all honesty..

But I don't mind them the way they are now.. with one exception.

 

I've said this many times before and I will continue to say it until Anet finally cave in to my request XD

 

The Dungeon Story modes absolutely need to be revamped like Arah was and made easier to players to solo!

Each of the Dungeon Story modes directly tie into the Story of Destiny's edge and the eventual ending of the Personal Story.

This Story content is important and once you've completed the level 40 instance where Destiny's Edge meet up in Lions Arch.. you should then start getting the mail leading you to Ascalon Catacombs, CM and TA as well as the others when you level up and hit their requirements.

 

Not too long ago I was running a lvl 80 Necromancer/Reaper through the Personal Story and attempting to solo these Dungeon story modes.. Some were managable with a little caution.. meanwhile a couple of others were far more punishing.. and Honor of the Waves specifically was absolute HELL!! trying to Solo.. and the only one I was not actually able to do thanks to the Last boss being absurdly overpowered compared to every other dungeon boss.

 

I firmly believe that making these story modes soloable like Arah was is something the developers need to make happen.

[yann.1946]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> I don't think Anet would ever take a look at dungeons again and that does bug me a little in all honesty..

> But I don't mind them the way they are now.. with one exception.

>

> I've said this many times before and I will continue to say it until Anet finally cave in to my request XD

>

> The Dungeon Story modes absolutely need to be revamped like Arah was and made easier to players to solo!

> Each of the Dungeon Story modes directly tie into the Story of Destiny's edge and the eventual ending of the Personal Story.

> This Story content is important and once you've completed the level 40 instance where Destiny's Edge meet up in Lions Arch.. you should then start getting the mail leading you to Ascalon Catacombs, CM and TA as well as the others when you level up and hit their requirements.

>

> Not too long ago I was running a lvl 80 Necromancer/Reaper through the Personal Story and attempting to solo these Dungeon story modes.. Some were managable with a little caution.. meanwhile a couple of others were far more punishing.. and Honor of the Waves specifically was absolute HELL!! trying to Solo.. and the only one I was not actually able to do thanks to the Last boss being absurdly overpowered compared to every other dungeon boss.

>

> I firmly believe that making these story modes soloable like Arah was is something the developers need to make happen.

 

In the meantime wooden potatoes recently solid honor of the Waves on necro so you might get a tip from their :)

 

 

[Tyson.5160]

I liked the story mode/ explorable paths that dungeons offered, which you don’t really get with Fractals. Fractals are suppose to be somewhat quick areas of instanced content.

 

I wouldn’t mind if they released a new dungeon for Heart of Maguuma involving Malyck. Then have a Path of Fire dungeon involving something else.

[Endorphin.9147]

@"Tyson.5160" I would love that. they could revamp dungeons by giving them CM's also

[hugo.4705]

I originally had an idea a long time ago:

What if dungeon map, with all path unlocked is turned into an open-world map: As a third mode. Where you can have as much players as a normal map, and several events all around the map giving dungeon tokens? The only thing to recover to create that mode would be the map itself with textures/collisions.

[Endorphin.9147]

isnt that called living story maps? lol

[hugo.4705]

almost yeah, but without story, just to farm.

[Linken.6345]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> almost yeah, but without story, just to farm.

 

Do the story once and farm away