Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"Mahou.3924" said: > I quite enjoyed it. Aurene is/was our daughter! = Canon. Loved that part. Sorry just my fanboy getting the better of me. > I'm not much into meta-anaysis or prediciting future events, but I'm also looking forward to Zafirah's story. Regardless of liking/disliking her, as the "newcomer" of the group, fleshing her out in one way or another is quite important. Or else, it'd be like in a single player RPG where you get a new party member, and you'd learn nothing new afterwards outside of the inital information. Yes, people are probably bound to still dislike her afterwards, but whatever that's perfectly legit and fine. It's also an excellent opportunity to redeem the Zaishen Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > > >> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > > > > Also confirmation that Kralkatorrik is back in the Mists now instead of elsewhere on Tyria - People thought he would head to another part of Elona or to the Charr Lands where he awoke, but it seems that's not the case - And giving more grounds to the theory that he could just consume the entirety of the Mists which definitely classifies him as more than a Tyria-level threat. > > > > > > > > > > its seems to me a prepared ground for Gods come back in next episode. > > > > > > > > i think that's just your headcanon bias talking > > > > > > > > i mean serious, everytime the mists get mentioned ppl go "humen gawds retern?!?" , there's more in the mists then the human gods, ya know > > > > > > Correct but in the context of the current story they are the story elements most connected to the Mists and the most mentioned, so it stands to reason if they are used it will be connected to the Mists rather than something new coming out of left field. Something new with the power to make a difference against Kralkatorrik at that, which would be even worse from the storytelling perspective (Why have we only just learned of this power now etcetc), sure they could introduce something new and Mists based as a response to Kralkatorrik sitting and eating up the Mists incessantly, but from a narrative point of view that would be strange when there is an already previously established force that could fulfill the same narrative requirement. > > > > Perhaps but even then it doesn't mean their return. Could be the spirits they abbandoned or their angels, or it could be the spirits of the wild. > > > > Honestly why would anet write the gods out of the story just to bring thzm back next season > > The Gods have evidently not been written out of the story however. What makes you think so? > > If they had truly been written out, there wouldn't be continued references to them throughout the entire expansion even after Balthazar's death. I don't know how you define writing something out but having continual references to something that has been supposedly written out of the story definitely doesn't classify amongst most definitions. because there was more to the gods then just the gods, there's still things the gods left behind when they went away. there's still their realms and all its inhabitants, their followers, their rtifacts and who knows what else. also ppl say there's loads of god references but i haven't seen that much of it since pof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenda.9723 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I would love to see a bromance moment between Rytlock and Logan in game :). And I am very curious who rytlocks cubs are. The idea that Rox might be a cub of rytlock is amazing. I am happy that more stories like this will follow. Looking forward to caithes story, but I dont care so much for Zafirah. I see that some ppl really hated the art. But I actually liked the art ; it portrays Rytlock in a more weak way, which fits wil all the guilt he expresses in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > > > >> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > > > > > Also confirmation that Kralkatorrik is back in the Mists now instead of elsewhere on Tyria - People thought he would head to another part of Elona or to the Charr Lands where he awoke, but it seems that's not the case - And giving more grounds to the theory that he could just consume the entirety of the Mists which definitely classifies him as more than a Tyria-level threat. > > > > > > > > > > > > its seems to me a prepared ground for Gods come back in next episode. > > > > > > > > > > i think that's just your headcanon bias talking > > > > > > > > > > i mean serious, everytime the mists get mentioned ppl go "humen gawds retern?!?" , there's more in the mists then the human gods, ya know > > > > > > > > Correct but in the context of the current story they are the story elements most connected to the Mists and the most mentioned, so it stands to reason if they are used it will be connected to the Mists rather than something new coming out of left field. Something new with the power to make a difference against Kralkatorrik at that, which would be even worse from the storytelling perspective (Why have we only just learned of this power now etcetc), sure they could introduce something new and Mists based as a response to Kralkatorrik sitting and eating up the Mists incessantly, but from a narrative point of view that would be strange when there is an already previously established force that could fulfill the same narrative requirement. > > > > > > Perhaps but even then it doesn't mean their return. Could be the spirits they abbandoned or their angels, or it could be the spirits of the wild. > > > > > > Honestly why would anet write the gods out of the story just to bring thzm back next season > > > > The Gods have evidently not been written out of the story however. What makes you think so? > > > > If they had truly been written out, there wouldn't be continued references to them throughout the entire expansion even after Balthazar's death. I don't know how you define writing something out but having continual references to something that has been supposedly written out of the story definitely doesn't classify amongst most definitions. > > because there was more to the gods then just the gods, there's still things the gods left behind when they went away. there's still their realms and all its inhabitants, their followers, their rtifacts and who knows what else. also ppl say there's loads of god references but i haven't seen that much of it since pof. I don't think you're fully grasping what "writing out" means. Everything you listed is still related to the Gods and for as long as they continue to be the Gods themselves are not written out of the story and so are just as liable to be relevant to the story as their artifacts and anything related to them is. That's how writing works, and it's not bias to want to see a narrative thread that continues to exist be tied off or revisited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > > > > > >> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > > > > > > Also confirmation that Kralkatorrik is back in the Mists now instead of elsewhere on Tyria - People thought he would head to another part of Elona or to the Charr Lands where he awoke, but it seems that's not the case - And giving more grounds to the theory that he could just consume the entirety of the Mists which definitely classifies him as more than a Tyria-level threat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its seems to me a prepared ground for Gods come back in next episode. > > > > > > > > > > > > i think that's just your headcanon bias talking > > > > > > > > > > > > i mean serious, everytime the mists get mentioned ppl go "humen gawds retern?!?" , there's more in the mists then the human gods, ya know > > > > > > > > > > Correct but in the context of the current story they are the story elements most connected to the Mists and the most mentioned, so it stands to reason if they are used it will be connected to the Mists rather than something new coming out of left field. Something new with the power to make a difference against Kralkatorrik at that, which would be even worse from the storytelling perspective (Why have we only just learned of this power now etcetc), sure they could introduce something new and Mists based as a response to Kralkatorrik sitting and eating up the Mists incessantly, but from a narrative point of view that would be strange when there is an already previously established force that could fulfill the same narrative requirement. > > > > > > > > Perhaps but even then it doesn't mean their return. Could be the spirits they abbandoned or their angels, or it could be the spirits of the wild. > > > > > > > > Honestly why would anet write the gods out of the story just to bring thzm back next season > > > > > > The Gods have evidently not been written out of the story however. What makes you think so? > > > > > > If they had truly been written out, there wouldn't be continued references to them throughout the entire expansion even after Balthazar's death. I don't know how you define writing something out but having continual references to something that has been supposedly written out of the story definitely doesn't classify amongst most definitions. > > > > because there was more to the gods then just the gods, there's still things the gods left behind when they went away. there's still their realms and all its inhabitants, their followers, their rtifacts and who knows what else. also ppl say there's loads of god references but i haven't seen that much of it since pof. > > I don't think you're fully grasping what "writing out" means. > > Everything you listed is still related to the Gods and for as long as they continue to be the Gods themselves are not written out of the story and so are just as liable to be relevant to the story as their artifacts and anything related to them is. > > That's how writing works, and it's not bias to want to see a narrative thread that continues to exist be tied off or revisited. no, a connection to something doesn't make that something part of the story. or else the god statues in the orr meta-event or the balt artifact in the priory story would mean that the human gods were part of the zhaitan arc (which they weren't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Gaile Gray.6029 Posted January 30, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 30, 2019 Thank you for posting your thoughts; I'm going to share them with the team. Incidentally, noting that the topic was not mentioned in the widely-used GW2 Discussion subforum, I created a [thread ](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/all-or-nothing-requiem/ "thread ")there yesterday, just to get general feedback on the story. I think having threads in two subforums is complementary in this case, and again, I'll share with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"Pax.3548" said: > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > Indirectly they answered a question I made here on another topic, if Sohotin is so powerful, why did Rytlock simply not lend her to the commander again? > > Because the sword was his. You see how obsessed he was with the sword, to the point of sacrificing everything that was dear to him, and now that he realized what was important, he basically says screw the high legions and their military mindset, and cast the sword aside, I wonder if this means Logan will wield it now. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets stolen and just "disappears" at the beginning of the next episode. > @"derd.6413" said: > Perhaps but even then it doesn't mean their return. Could be the spirits they abbandoned or their angels, or it could be the spirits of the wild. > > Honestly why would anet write the gods out of the story just to bring thzm back next season Anet outright stated that the gods' story is not finished when asked questions about Balthazar not cursing Lyssa. They fully intend for the gods to return at some point, in some form, and a story focused on the Mists is the most likely time for such to occur. That's likely why people think they'll make some sort of appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 It's great, only issue: the whole story should be on the same page, easier to read than clicking on blue texts :D great artworks... for ratlock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > Flame Legion are the ones who recovered Sohothin, I find this interesting as a) how did they learn it was there, b) how did they get a squad to the Ring of Fire and back given this would likely take place ~1300 AE? Only took 7 years for them to reveal how Rytlock got Sohothin. I would assume it ties back to their dominance in Guildwars 1 Flame Legion had a strong grasp on the Charr race back then and they originally believed the Titans to be gods. I guess it makes sense that they would have known Prince Rurik left Ascalon after they took most of it.. and probably learned about his death and the location of the Sword after the Titan threat had been dealt with. That knowledge was likely lost and rediscovered. I would like to know how they got out there though.. maybe they used an old portal.. or created one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orimidu.9604 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I would love to see this scene in the game, there are tons of players who don't visit the website. Ambient NPC dialogue is always a welcome thing to see for hidden backstory, and seeing Rytlock pace the halls of Thunderhead Keep post-story (dialogue bubbles and audio muted for characters yet to complete the story) would add quite a bit of depth to the episode. You could in turn flesh things like this out to mini-episodes where we can go back to the Black Citadel or other areas of Ascalon to learn more about Rytlock's past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donari.5237 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"Orimidu.9604" said: > I would love to see this scene in the game, there are tons of players who don't visit the website. Ambient NPC dialogue is always a welcome thing to see for hidden backstory, and seeing Rytlock pace the halls of Thunderhead Keep post-story (dialogue bubbles and audio muted for characters yet to complete the story) would add quite a bit of depth to the episode. You could in turn flesh things like this out to mini-episodes where we can go back to the Black Citadel or other areas of Ascalon to learn more about Rytlock's past. Agreed. However, in the recent AFC the devs confirmed that they have a word budget on how much they can put in to any one episode thanks to not wanting to get murdered by the localization teams. (OK, that's my phrasing, but they did say all the work flows downstream). This story was a *lot* of words. Moreover, if you have it voiced in game, that's a lot of Voice Actor pay that may be beyond the resources. So nice as it would be, the website story consumes far fewer resources and offers far more information and flavor than can fit in the confines of the episode. If it weren't presented this way we might never get the lore at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahou.3924 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 > @"Orimidu.9604" said: > I would love to see this scene in the game, there are tons of players who don't visit the website. Ambient NPC dialogue is always a welcome thing to see for hidden backstory, and seeing Rytlock pace the halls of Thunderhead Keep post-story (dialogue bubbles and audio muted for characters yet to complete the story) would add quite a bit of depth to the episode. You could in turn flesh things like this out to mini-episodes where we can go back to the Black Citadel or other areas of Ascalon to learn more about Rytlock's past. Seeing that Rytlock probably wouldn't tell anyone about his innermost feelings, implementing it in-game would have to be something like a auto-play mini story instance or cutsscene where the point of view switches completely to him (like in a toned down version of controlling Caithe in S2 from what I've heard?) for the duration after some sort of trigger. Theoretically this would work without any voice acting in the form of an inner monologue IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesacon.8735 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 If Kralk wants to hang out in the Mists, I wish he'd visit Stonemist Castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridget Morrigan.1752 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Weird and dodgy Rytlock artwork aside... You didn't enjoy Skrittlock??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Tom Abernathy.5893 Posted January 31, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > Awesome, very nice surprise. > > More from Ruinbringer, more on how Rytlock got Sohothin and why he wanted it back so badly. More Balthazar interaction and general world building. Logan being a bro. > > Also confirmation that Kralkatorrik is back in the Mists now instead of elsewhere on Tyria - People thought he would head to another part of Elona or to the Charr Lands where he awoke, but it seems that's not the case - And giving more grounds to the theory that he could just consume the entirety of the Mists which definitely classifies him as more than a Tyria-level threat. Definitely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Tom Abernathy.5893 Posted January 31, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"Arden.7480" said: > Zafirah interests me sooo much!! I hope she will give more insight to Balthazar and how he was before he went rogue, and will give him more personality, than that Balthazar just likes war, he must have had some good sides too, as everyone does. > > Thank You Tom Abernathy and the Narrative Team! Such stories are always welcome!! This was a collaboration between Marketing (Anatoly Ingram and Elisabeth Cardy, mainly) and Narrative (writer Alex Kain and story editor Julia Nardin, mainly). We're pleased so many players like it, and that reaction definitely helps the cause of doing more in the future. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Tom Abernathy.5893 Posted January 31, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"Dark Red Killian.3946" said: > Great story! Love reading about the lore. It got me thinking though when he mentioned Kralk going off to the mists and if we beat him all of Tyria will be gone. What happens if Kralk is beaten in the Mists? What happens then?? This is EXACTLY the salient question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"Tom Abernathy II.5241" said: > > @"Dark Red Killian.3946" said: > > Great story! Love reading about the lore. It got me thinking though when he mentioned Kralk going off to the mists and if we beat him all of Tyria will be gone. What happens if Kralk is beaten in the Mists? What happens then?? > > This is EXACTLY the salient question. It is interesting to think about, because whether we kill him in the mists it upsets the balance of Tyria. But where does the magic go? Does it still get released into Tyria or does it linger in the mists and create crazed enemies like it does on Tyria? It feels like at some point what we know is going to be contradicted somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Tom Abernathy II.5241" said: > > > @"Dark Red Killian.3946" said: > > > Great story! Love reading about the lore. It got me thinking though when he mentioned Kralk going off to the mists and if we beat him all of Tyria will be gone. What happens if Kralk is beaten in the Mists? What happens then?? > > > > This is EXACTLY the salient question. > > It is interesting to think about, because whether we kill him in the mists it upsets the balance of Tyria. But where does the magic go? Does it still get released into Tyria or does it linger in the mists and create crazed enemies like it does on Tyria? It feels like at some point what we know is going to be contradicted somehow. > isnt aurene now in the mists to absorb the magic or glint herself? if everything fails we still have kasmeer who has the 'blessings of all the gods' and kormir added to 'never forget that' might be useful for something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 For what it's worth, I don't find it that strange that the Flame Legion reached the Ring of Fire. It's not like they've got an arrow hovering above their heads, after all. The non-shamans routinely passed themselves off as members of other legions in the vanilla story, and we see Rytlock doing the same thing here. I imagine it'd be trivial for them to lie their way to Lion's Arch, and from there it's just a matter of hiring a crew willing to make a risky voyage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"Tom Abernathy II.5241" said: > > @"Dark Red Killian.3946" said: > > Great story! Love reading about the lore. It got me thinking though when he mentioned Kralk going off to the mists and if we beat him all of Tyria will be gone. What happens if Kralk is beaten in the Mists? What happens then?? > > This is EXACTLY the salient question. I hope this isn't a hint that the solution will end up being "kill Kralkatorrik in the Mists and the world is saved". I'm not opposed to Aurene's death being permanent, but having that as the solution would pretty much make the entirety of Season 3 and Path of Fire pointless. It would make the already crudely forced antagonism with Balthazar (*we* were the ones who initiated hostility for *no reason* besides "someone is exploiting the White Mantle and offered to use them to assist us!" as if we hadn't done [the exact same thing](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_in_Ice) in that very season) even worse off because it would mean that Balthazar could have just taken in their magic and everything would have been dandy, that Taimi's prediction that The All needs 4+ Elder Dragons to remain stable, but because she forgot to carry the one that is "what happens if we kill Elder Dragons *and* reduce the quantities of magic?". It would make the repeated statements by Taimi and Sadizi that "the death of one more Elder Dragons will tip The All irrevocably out of balance" to be moot and pointless, and making us hate ourselves for ever not going "okay Balthazar, eat up Kralkatorrik's magic and save the world!" instead of what we did ("If you kill any Elder Dragon, the world dies!") I tend to love the whole "the hero makes the situation worse before fixing it", but not if our attempts to fix our making it worse make it worse because a teenager forgot to carrying the damned one and an old man who *should* know his stuff apparently didn't. /endrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I'm partly on your wavelength here Konig but on the other hand it is a pretty interesting twist. Not sure about the mechanics of it, but maybe then the magic is simply removed from Tyria as you suggested and thus the overall amount of magic needed to balance on the planet itself is reduced? This doesn't solve the question, maybe the magic will continue to build on it's own accord or return back to Tyria much more slowly and thus threaten the balance again, but it's not a sudden happening. It's less a solution in this case and more a stay of execution - Gives people time to figure out another solution or return Aurene or find another replacement. Incidently, that's what I believe the Gods can be used for as a narrative force - As a stay of execution to give Tyria time to find a solution and/or breathing space. I'm not expecting them to have the solution and solve everything as I agree that is poor storytelling, but they can certainly give the characters time that they're continually short of to come up with that solution. That's a rather... Godly/Parental thing to do, in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CETheLucid.3964 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Beautiful story. I don't think they could have done that much better. Kudos to Anet and here's to hoping the others are of this quality. > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > Anet outright stated that the gods' story is not finished when asked questions about Balthazar not cursing Lyssa. > > They fully intend for the gods to return at some point, in some form, and a story focused on the Mists is the most likely time for such to occur. That's likely why people think they'll make some sort of appearance. I have a theory jumping around in my head that with the introduction of Zafirah, we may be building up to meeting the new unknown god of war that replaced Balthazar. That she ends up being what Desmina is to Grenth and repurposing the Zaishen. And in general the beginnings of the human gods' plan to fix and/or relocate the population of Tyria with the inclusion of all the races that are willing in a grand divine reconciliation deal that finally unites all the races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Starting to hope the new God of War is a resurrected Rurik, to be honest. Which could tie in very nicely with Sohothin and Ruinbringer being continued players in the story, and help tie into a Charr-focused expansion. Bangar hates humans and suddenly the last prince of Ascalon is now returned as a God of War, the previous one of which encouraged humanity to kick the charr out of Ascalon in the first place. Kralkatorrik will be theoretically gone so the danger of the Brand is reduced and that was one of the reasons for the High Legions seeking peace with the humans. Cue Bangar using this as justification for renewing the war with humanity, and of course Rytlock will lead Blood Legion loyal to him against Bangar whilst the Iron and Ash Legions elect to keep their treaty with Ebonhawke/humanity. Perfect breeding ground for a more grounded expansion story. Wild theory but hey, I can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 > @"Tom Abernathy II.5241" said: > > @"Dark Red Killian.3946" said: > > Great story! Love reading about the lore. It got me thinking though when he mentioned Kralk going off to the mists and if we beat him all of Tyria will be gone. What happens if Kralk is beaten in the Mists? What happens then?? > > This is EXACTLY the salient question. As Konig stated, our actions in PoF addressed this. It doesnt matter where he is killed, as long the magic is kept on Tyria. Otherwise stopping Balthazar wouldnt have been a thing. It may not blow Tyria up or whatever consequence, but a lack of magic would logically cause a longer term degredation to the World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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