My Balance wishlist (brace yourselves, it's a wall)

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > Regarding axe ambush - it had confusion on it at the beginning and this was in some ways more powerful than it is now. I'm all for reducing the torment spam, but not sure if adding back more confusion spam is appropriate here.

>

> Need to remember here that Confusion used to have a higher base damage back then, this was changed at the same patch as Imaginary Axes gained its Torment so that was actually a pretty hefty buff to the skill back then.

 

Yes good point I accept that.

[Math.5123]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > **Ranger:**

> > So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

> > - Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.

> > - Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.

> > - Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

> > - Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.

>

> 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

> 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

> 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

>

> Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

>

>

>

 

Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

 

It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

 

 

Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

[Aktium.9506]

I'd like to see Necro Signets get looked at, Plague Signet is good as is, but the rest are really underwhelming. I mean I hated the old Signet Necro from pre-HoT. But that's because it was such a stupid fucking build where you mainly just smashed the signets for boonrips and might. Maybe baseline signets working through shroud at reduced effectiveness as well?

 

**Signet of Spite**

I think it would be pretty funny if it literally did apply every single condition in the game, with durations and stacks adjusted so its not ridiculously overpowered. Even if it's adjusted to the point where it's not very dangerous in and of itself due to low enough stacks and durations, the mindgames from people seeing all the condis at the same time would be pretty fun.

 

**Signet of the Locust**

I dunno. Some manner of conditional Locust Swarm autocast for the passive? Maybe boon steal for the active. 25% move speed signets are the most boring thing in the game. I'd like to see all of them for all classes have the 25% MS removed and replaced with some other form of mobility.

 

**Signet of Undeath**

Slap Renewal of Fire's effect on the active. Make the passive 1% per second when your health is over 50% and 2% when under 50%.

 

**Signet of Vampirism**

Just remove the internal cooldowns.

 

Apart from Signets, well, this still exists. It might as well not, but it does.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serpent_Siphon

 

But I have no clue what you would even do with it.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > **Ranger:**

> > > So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

> > > - Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.

> > > - Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.

> > > - Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

> > > - Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.

> >

> > 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

> > 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

> > 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

> >

> > Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

>

> It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

>

>

> Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

 

I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.

The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

[Yannir.4132]

> @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> yet again, this utility is not OP at all for non soulbeast builds, it's not even remotely viable for core or druid tbh, so why nerf it instead of nerfing soulbeast or the ability scaling on soulbeast merge

 

This is true to a degree. Problem is there's no other real way to nerf the damage from a Sic Em Sniper build. What else is there to nerf when the goal is to reduce damage? Nerfing longbow itself is a terrible option as that would affect core and druid builds more than nerfing Sic Em. Traits like Twice as Vicious or Furious Strength are marginal damage increases at best, and if Oppressive Superiority was nerfed, the build would just swap to Leader of the Pack. Having the skill split between merged and unmerged is not really a realistic thing to ask for as they did away with that for a reason. If you disagree with that, that's your right.

Sic Em is the reason why this build over performs so we nerf Sic Em. It sucks for core or druid players that(if) want to use it but it really is IMO the best way to do it.

 

> cast time reduction not needed, it used to be too fast

 

Which is why I didn't completely revert it. The skill feels bad to use without Quickness. I was going for a lateral change in which the damage goes down but in return it gets more fluid to use. Not a 100% necessary though.

 

> too situational to make any difference: you don't usually use it during team fights as power rev to blast a random field (some skirmishes mb, like when a druid cast CAF 4 on you or thief is trying to stealth you via BP) and you're not gonna start playing ventari sup just because of that.

 

This was indeed not aimed at Power Shiro builds. I see some potential for using Retribution which I think this change would synergize with.

 

> really uncalled for

 

Maybe. I'm on the fence with this one, I just see that using IO doesn't justify the energy cost currently. Maybe I'll just reduce that instead.

 

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

 

Forage as a disengage skill seems doable. The elixirs I threw there weren't really well thought out. They were more to illustrate the intention of the change. Wholly new skills would be more work for the devs at anet whereas elixirs would probably simple enough to implement.

 

> 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

 

That was aimed at the Sic Em Sniper build more than Boonbeast. See my comments above for Miles.

 

> 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

 

The stability nerf is more about counterplay. For example, I could see warriors competing more easily against Boonbeast if their Stability was nerfed. I might be misguided in that expectation.

My expectation is that ANet would not remove the damage reductions from the skill in the next patch after they implement it. Which is why I touched on its duration instead.

 

> FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me.

 

I'll get back to you on that. It's not a simple change as it's not just a question of adjustments, it would be something completely new.

 

I'm probably revising the suggestion again on Monday, take some of these new ideas into consideration.

[Yannir.4132]

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> **Signet of Spite**

> I think it would be pretty funny if it literally did apply every single condition in the game, with durations and stacks adjusted so its not ridiculously overpowered. Even if it's adjusted to the point where it's not very dangerous in and of itself due to low enough stacks and durations, the mindgames from people seeing all the condis at the same time would be pretty fun.

 

I was actually looking at this when thinking about the necro changes. From a different angle though. More about clarifying what this skill is about, power or condi.

 

> Apart from Signets, well, this still exists. It might as well not, but it does.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serpent_Siphon

>

> But I have no clue what you would even do with it.

 

Same thing here, and neither do I. :lol:

Probably delete it and make an entirely new skill.

 

 

[Math.5123]

> @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > > **Ranger:**

> > > > So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

> > > > - Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.

> > > > - Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.

> > > > - Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

> > > > - Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.

> > >

> > > 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

> > > 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

> > > 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

> > >

> > > Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

> >

> > It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

> >

> >

> > Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

>

> I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.

> The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

 

[https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz](https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz "https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz")

[apharma.3741]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> So this is MY list(basically a nerf list) for what I'd like the next balance patch to include. I'm not against buffing unused aspects of the professions but honestly almost none of the classes need buffs to them at this point. With a few notable exceptions. On another note, I realize I don't know all the classes inside and out so if anything stands out to you, feel free to notify me. Be civil though. I know it's a hard ask in this particular sub-forum but do _try_.

> One more thing, all numeric nerfs should be considered PvP only so don't comment if this would IYO nerf your raid build as it probably wouldn't.

> I'll go in alphabetical order.

>

> ______________________________

>

> **Elementalist:**

> It's hard for me to assess what S/D Weaver would need as on paper it looks alright. Maybe the only thing needed is for the competition to come down a notch. So I focused on improving the Earth traitline to create more synergies for Tempest to utilize. I had more ideas but decided to exclude them as they were a bit too large to implement within the scope of balance.

> - Blinding Ashes: This trait has been redone. Now inflicts Blind on foes you strike with a Leap Combo Finisher. Cleanse a condition from yourself whenever you Blind a foe. This trait has a 3 second internal cooldown.

> - Electric Discharge: Increased the base damage inflicted by this trait by 30%.

> - Raging Storm: Fury duration has been increased to 4 seconds from 2 s. Bonus Ferocity gained has been reduced to 150 from 250. _NEW, REVISION B_

> - Elemental Shielding: Increased the duration of Protection gained from 2 second to 3.

> - Earthen Blast: This trait now also inflicts 2 stacks of Bleeding for 5 seconds.

> - Rock Solid: Increased the duration of Stability gained from 2 seconds to 3.

> - Geomancer's Defense: When you have Protection on you, now also inflicts 1 stack of Bleeding for 3 seconds on foes that strike you.

> - Harmonious Conduit: Increased Stability gained from 1 stack to 2.

>

> **Mesmer:**

> I'm going to support some of @"Trigr.6481" suggestions regarding these but I have things to add. Not gonna repeat them so just gonna link it here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67574/countless-pvp-mesmer-suggestions#latest What my changes boil down to is I want to remove any mass application of Torment from Mesmer, and replace it with either Bleed or Confusion. What I think Mirages biggest transgression is, is the fact that it can load you up with both Torment and Confusion which heavily punishes any action you do afterwards. While replacing Torment with Bleed/Confusion might make Mesmer do more baseline condition damage and reduce "counterplay", if you seriously consider not moving counterplay, it won't punish you as much for kiting or running away.

> - Maim the Disillusioned: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 6 seconds of Bleeding.

> - Illusionary Counter: 5 stacks of Torment for 8 seconds is replaced by 6 stacks of Bleeding for 6 seconds.

> - Ethereal Chop: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 3 seconds of Confusion.

> - Mirror Strikes: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 stacks of Confusion for 5 seconds.

> - Lingering Thoughts: 3 stacks of Torment for 4 seconds is replaced by 3 stacks of Bleeding for 4 seconds. Count recharge has been increased to 15 seconds from 10. _EDIT, REVISION B_

> - Ether Barrage: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 seconds of Bleeding.

> - Imaginary Axes: Each stack of Torment that would be applied for 4 seconds is now 2 seconds of Bleeding and Confusion per stack.

> - Chaos Vortex can keep its Torment for all I care, staff is the least problematic weapon of all.

> Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:

> This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!

> I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

>

> Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:

> This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!

> I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

 

OK so I'll just talk about ele and mesmer as those I play more than others and know much better.

 

Ele:

Blinding Ashes - This isn't a good change, core abilities have barely any leap finishes, buff to weaver but nerf to core drastically. Please no.

Electric Discharge - The problem with this skill was always it's instant damage nature that has 0 counterplay. Yeah it sucks it was nerfed but I'd rather see the skill changed.

Raging Storm - It's already fine as is, arguably too strong for a minor, I'd reduce it to just giving fury and increase it to 3s.

Elemental Shielding - I think after the boon duration nerfs it could go back to 3s now.

Earthen Blast - It's a minor so I don't really think it's that big a deal. I would leave as it, it's simple and true to core values.

Rock Solid - Agreed 3s would actually allow it to be useful, I can think of a bit of a meme build with perma stab though.

Geomancer's Defence - It's a minor, stop trying to make minors do as much as major traits. Fine as is.

Harmonious Conduit - I think a better avenue is to increase cool downs on CC that have progressively been lowered and reduce stability that's been increased in access since expansions tbh.

 

Mesmer:

Maim The Disillusioned - I don't see this trait as being too problematic in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't change especially if changing all torment on mirage.

Illusionary Counter: Not addressing 6s CD? Needs to be 8s. Bleeds change is fine though, I'd say 5 for 8s though, bleeds are meant to be long duration but weak.

Ethereal Chop: Confusion is a bad idea, it's a really really bad idea on auto. People already have issues playing around it on select skills. No. Make it bleed or poison if you have to.

Mirror Strikes: See above.

Lingering Thoughts: Bleeds are weak but last a long time, the bleed duration should be 6-8s. Count recharge at 15s is out of line with even core values which would be 10s.

Ether Barrage: 2s of bleed is questionable, bring it up to 3s.

Imaginary Axes: Really? Confusion? Really? Switch it to 1 stack of bleed per axe for 6s. Also get rid of the extra axe from Mirrored Axes? No-one thought maybe this is too strong a trait giving -20% CD AND a 25-50% buff to most axe skills?

Chaos Vortex: Yeah I agree it's easily side stepped. I would implement the changes above first then revise it, maybe reducing the duration of the conditions a little.

 

I don't agree with half of them, especially adding confusion to mirage attacks, many already have problems dealing with confusion despite it having plenty of counterplay. All in all straight up swapping torment for bleeding across all mirage weapons and skills is the first thing I would do and then evaluate from there before changing maim the disillusioned.

 

Ele doesn't need buffs at all, what it needs is the power creep from classes like holo, firebrand, soulbeast reducing and rev's easy might stacking to be dealt with so it's not killing them in seconds. Ele has really good builds in weaver that just aren't competitive either because everyone has too much stab, does too much damage or has really high uptime of defence.

 

If I had to suggest 2 buffs for ele I'd say increase the duration of the water field on steam surge to 4s and then reduce Ashen Blasts radius to 240 but make it a PBAoE while cleaning up the aftercasts a tad.

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"Aktium.9506" said:

> > **Signet of Spite**

> > I think it would be pretty funny if it literally did apply every single condition in the game, with durations and stacks adjusted so its not ridiculously overpowered. Even if it's adjusted to the point where it's not very dangerous in and of itself due to low enough stacks and durations, the mindgames from people seeing all the condis at the same time would be pretty fun.

>

> I was actually looking at this when thinking about the necro changes. From a different angle though. More about clarifying what this skill is about, power or condi.

Now that you mention it, maybe go the hybridization route and make it give 90 Power, 90 Condition Damage so that it's more clear that it's meant for builds of both damage types.

 

[Miles Smiles.8951]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > yet again, this utility is not OP at all for non soulbeast builds, it's not even remotely viable for core or druid tbh, so why nerf it instead of nerfing soulbeast or the ability scaling on soulbeast merge

>

> This is true to a degree. Problem is there's no other real way to nerf the damage from a Sic Em Sniper build. What else is there to nerf when the goal is to reduce damage?

 

well, they did split the damage modifier on Attack of Opportunity after Maul (GS2) between merged and unmerged (pet attack), didn't they? why not do the same to Sic Em?

> > really uncalled for

>

> Maybe. I'm on the fence with this one, I just see that using IO doesn't justify the energy cost currently. Maybe I'll just reduce that instead.

 

IO is insane, you basically just activate it with your multi hitting skills then turn it off.

[phokus.8934]

IO should be changed to its pve counterpart of -6 energy rather than -8 in pvp.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > > > **Ranger:**

> > > > > So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

> > > > > - Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.

> > > > > - Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.

> > > > > - Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

> > > > > - Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.

> > > >

> > > > 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

> > > > 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

> > > > 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

> > > >

> > > > Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

> > >

> > > It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

> > >

> > >

> > > Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

> >

> > I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.

> > The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

>

> [https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz](https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz "https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz")

 

yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

[Math.5123]

> @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > > > > **Ranger:**

> > > > > > So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

> > > > > > - Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.

> > > > > > - Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.

> > > > > > - Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

> > > > > > - Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

> > > > > 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

> > > > > 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

> > > >

> > > > It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

> > >

> > > I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.

> > > The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

> >

> > [https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz](https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz "https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz")

>

> yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

 

Core guard and rev has very obvious tells, unless casting behind a wall. But both of them suffer in that they are melee based, the prior doesn't even have any form of disengage.

 

This damage was also done by Earth runes + dolyak on his bar. Which is borderline insane.

 

Edit; if you can't react to a 4 second wind up ability, you deserve to die.

[meri.9187]

From a rev perspective, I think your suggestions are pretty reasonable. I especially like the Renewing Wave and Hardening Persistence suggestions.

 

It's also good to see mostly nerfs except for weaver.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > > > > > **Ranger:**

> > > > > > > So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

> > > > > > > - Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.

> > > > > > > - Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.

> > > > > > > - Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

> > > > > > > - Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

> > > > > > 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

> > > > > > 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

> > > > >

> > > > > It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

> > > >

> > > > I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.

> > > > The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

> > >

> > > [https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz](https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz "https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz")

> >

> > yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

>

> Core guard and rev has very obvious tells, unless casting behind a wall. But both of them suffer in that they are melee based, the prior doesn't even have any form of disengage.

>

>

> Edit; if you can't react to a 4 second wind up ability, you deserve to die.

Yes, I agree, but in conquest there are lots of opportunities to LoS before focus 5 + JI or be otherwise sneaky with it. Everyone knows it but people still get hit by it a lot even on higher tiers or am I wrong? And if you weapon swap into agility hammer 2 or GS 2 + JI it is faster than quickness rapid fire.

 

> This damage was also done by Earth runes + dolyak on his bar. Which is borderline insane.

Yep, like I said, the modifiers are insane alongside the extra stats you get when merging with power pet with Beastmastery line equipped (400 ferocity, 350 power, 150 precision/toughness/vitality)

[Math.5123]

> @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Miles Smiles.8951" said:

> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > > > > > > > **Ranger:**

> > > > > > > > So Boonbeast. Let's do something about that. Other things as well.

> > > > > > > > - Consume Plasma: This skill has been removed from the list of skills than can be found by Forage.

> > > > > > > > - Forage: 2 new items have been added to the list of possible items. These are Elixir B and Elixir U. These skills are identical to Engineer skills with the same names.

> > > > > > > > - Sic Em: The cooldown of this skill has been increased to 45 seconds from 35. The damage bonus added by this skill has been reduced to 25% from 40%.

> > > > > > > > - Dolyak Stance: The amount of Stability granted by this skill has been reduced from 6 stacks to 3. Duration of this skill has been reduced to 4 seconds from 6 s.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. I like the idea of removing Consume Plasma. Thing is, it's useless on Ranger or Druid, but way too OP on Soulbeast due to the strong chemistry behind Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond "which both are how they can immediately amplify a 6 might stack into a 25 might stack, ect.. ect.." The elixirs on the other hand, are debatable. I'd rather see every Pig Forage be a form of disengage, so the playstyle flows better. It can keep feathers for a stealth, then it should have something that would grant an extra stun break, and then something that has an effect like Rocket Boots. It's awkward to play Pig because you aren't sure if the Forage will grant you a stealth disengage or a plasma. The ONLY reason why Soulbeast even uses it, is because it can amplify the plasma into absurd boons. I stress again, otherwise the Pig is useless and always has been.

> > > > > > > 2. Sic Em does not need any changing, it really isn't the problem. If we were to change Sic Em, it would eliminate all DPS oriented builds to the point that they would not be viable at all. Try running a Berserker Soulbeast, not so easy competitively. The problem is the Boonbeast's absurd boon amplification between Fresh Reinforcement and Fortifying Bond. Those two things make the Boonbeast feel like it is dealing disproportionate damage, because its sustain is jacked up so high. If it didn't have this sustain, people wouldn't even notice Sic Em. They'd just be complaining about DEs in terms of the most annoying damage spike.

> > > > > > > 3. Dolyak Stance does need nerfing, but it isn't the stability that needs nerfing. The effect that grants -33% damage "unlabeled modifier" that effects power & condi, stacks with Protection buffs and Second Skin "which also does -33% condi" is what the problem is. They should remove the -33% vs. all damage, and replace it with something else lighter, or simply add nothing in its place at all.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Really in the end though, you've got to understand that non-boonbeast builds are fine, they're debatably underpowered actually. Sure a high DPS Soulbeast might tear it up in Stronghold, where he doesn't need to worry about holding a node cap, as he explodes silver level players in the que, but in competitive conquest matches like ATs or plat 2+ ranked, there is a reason why you don't see these builds being ran. Nothing needs to be tampered with outside of what makes a Boonbeast, a Boonbeast. When you get down to it, the problem completely lies initially within two things: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Reinforcement - Now since Fortifying Bond is CORE and was never a problem to begin with, it doesn't need patching, only Fresh Reinforcement needs fixing. FR should have never been a 2nd trait selection to amplify boons in the first place, it's too much. It just needs to be redesigned completely, into what? You tell me. The 3rd problem is Dolyak Stance in its current state, which I've already covered.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dps soulbeasts damage is pretty out of control compared to other glassy builds tbh. Pairing that damage with the incredible uptime and ease of access to unblockable makes them a nightmare for classes without access to vigor / evades on skills or utilities. (Namely guard and Necro)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It bursts higher than core guard, from 1800 range and it's unblockable. I'd like to tie the unstoppable Union (I think that's the name of the unblockable trait) to the merge f3 skill. This way, they can still have on-demand access to unblockable through traits and warhorn. Just not as spamable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Id also argue that ranger modifiers should have a raw stat gain, like other classes instead of granting % damage. Much like assassin's signet grants power now instead of the old 25%.

> > > > >

> > > > > I guess it might sound fair to argue that soulbeast's burst - though pretty fast - still isn't instant and is telegraphed (unless stealth one shot), so you can react.

> > > > > The modifiers are completely nuts tho indeed: you can legit double your damage by picking one trait line + one utility. Not to mention that aside from damage you also get unblockables, reveal; then detarget evade with los verticality, cc and nuke on smokescale merge and mobility, sustain on owl for instance.

> > > >

> > > > [https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz](https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz "https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBetterOxRitzMitz")

> > >

> > > yeah, I mentioned stealth. this is why you random dodge, core guard's burst often needs to be random dodged as well. same as fresh air burst and some other specs too

> >

> > Core guard and rev has very obvious tells, unless casting behind a wall. But both of them suffer in that they are melee based, the prior doesn't even have any form of disengage.

> >

> >

> > Edit; if you can't react to a 4 second wind up ability, you deserve to die.

> Yes, I agree, but in conquest there are lots of opportunities to LoS before focus 5 + JI or be otherwise sneaky with it. Everyone knows it but people still get hit by it a lot even on higher tiers or am I wrong? And if you weapon swap into agility hammer 2 or GS 2 + JI it is faster than quickness rapid fire.

>

> > This damage was also done by Earth runes + dolyak on his bar. Which is borderline insane.

> Yep, like I said, the modifiers are insane alongside the extra stats you get when merging with power pet with Beastmastery line equipped (400 ferocity, 350 power, 150 precision/toughness/vitality)

 

You need to be in combat already for agility to work though, so the sneaking up isn't really a thing. I don't know why I'm arguing though, considering we're in an agreement. ^_^

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > So this is MY list(basically a nerf list) for what I'd like the next balance patch to include. I'm not against buffing unused aspects of the professions but honestly almost none of the classes need buffs to them at this point. With a few notable exceptions. On another note, I realize I don't know all the classes inside and out so if anything stands out to you, feel free to notify me. Be civil though. I know it's a hard ask in this particular sub-forum but do _try_.

> > One more thing, all numeric nerfs should be considered PvP only so don't comment if this would IYO nerf your raid build as it probably wouldn't.

> > I'll go in alphabetical order.

> >

> > ______________________________

> >

> > **Elementalist:**

> > It's hard for me to assess what S/D Weaver would need as on paper it looks alright. Maybe the only thing needed is for the competition to come down a notch. So I focused on improving the Earth traitline to create more synergies for Tempest to utilize. I had more ideas but decided to exclude them as they were a bit too large to implement within the scope of balance.

> > - Blinding Ashes: This trait has been redone. Now inflicts Blind on foes you strike with a Leap Combo Finisher. Cleanse a condition from yourself whenever you Blind a foe. This trait has a 3 second internal cooldown.

> > - Electric Discharge: Increased the base damage inflicted by this trait by 30%.

> > - Raging Storm: Fury duration has been increased to 4 seconds from 2 s. Bonus Ferocity gained has been reduced to 150 from 250. _NEW, REVISION B_

> > - Elemental Shielding: Increased the duration of Protection gained from 2 second to 3.

> > - Earthen Blast: This trait now also inflicts 2 stacks of Bleeding for 5 seconds.

> > - Rock Solid: Increased the duration of Stability gained from 2 seconds to 3.

> > - Geomancer's Defense: When you have Protection on you, now also inflicts 1 stack of Bleeding for 3 seconds on foes that strike you.

> > - Harmonious Conduit: Increased Stability gained from 1 stack to 2.

> >

> > **Mesmer:**

> > I'm going to support some of @"Trigr.6481" suggestions regarding these but I have things to add. Not gonna repeat them so just gonna link it here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67574/countless-pvp-mesmer-suggestions#latest What my changes boil down to is I want to remove any mass application of Torment from Mesmer, and replace it with either Bleed or Confusion. What I think Mirages biggest transgression is, is the fact that it can load you up with both Torment and Confusion which heavily punishes any action you do afterwards. While replacing Torment with Bleed/Confusion might make Mesmer do more baseline condition damage and reduce "counterplay", if you seriously consider not moving counterplay, it won't punish you as much for kiting or running away.

> > - Maim the Disillusioned: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 6 seconds of Bleeding.

> > - Illusionary Counter: 5 stacks of Torment for 8 seconds is replaced by 6 stacks of Bleeding for 6 seconds.

> > - Ethereal Chop: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 3 seconds of Confusion.

> > - Mirror Strikes: 6 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 stacks of Confusion for 5 seconds.

> > - Lingering Thoughts: 3 stacks of Torment for 4 seconds is replaced by 3 stacks of Bleeding for 4 seconds. Count recharge has been increased to 15 seconds from 10. _EDIT, REVISION B_

> > - Ether Barrage: 2 seconds of Torment is replaced by 2 seconds of Bleeding.

> > - Imaginary Axes: Each stack of Torment that would be applied for 4 seconds is now 2 seconds of Bleeding and Confusion per stack.

> > - Chaos Vortex can keep its Torment for all I care, staff is the least problematic weapon of all.

> > Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:

> > This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!

> > I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

> >

> > Well, that got out of control fast. :lol:

> > This list is by no means comprehensive nor is it realistic thinking it's going to happen any time soon. So settle down, little monkeys!

> > I'm open to adding more suggestions if I feel like they are realistic and cater to balance. Also if you think I haven't thought something through, feel free to point that out as well.

>

> OK so I'll just talk about ele and mesmer as those I play more than others and know much better.

>

> Ele:

> Blinding Ashes - This isn't a good change, core abilities have barely any leap finishes, buff to weaver but nerf to core drastically. Please no.

> Electric Discharge - The problem with this skill was always it's instant damage nature that has 0 counterplay. Yeah it sucks it was nerfed but I'd rather see the skill changed.

> Raging Storm - It's already fine as is, arguably too strong for a minor, I'd reduce it to just giving fury and increase it to 3s.

> Elemental Shielding - I think after the boon duration nerfs it could go back to 3s now.

> Earthen Blast - It's a minor so I don't really think it's that big a deal. I would leave as it, it's simple and true to core values.

> Rock Solid - Agreed 3s would actually allow it to be useful, I can think of a bit of a meme build with perma stab though.

> Geomancer's Defence - It's a minor, stop trying to make minors do as much as major traits. Fine as is.

> Harmonious Conduit - I think a better avenue is to increase cool downs on CC that have progressively been lowered and reduce stability that's been increased in access since expansions tbh.

>

> Mesmer:

> Maim The Disillusioned - I don't see this trait as being too problematic in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't change especially if changing all torment on mirage.

> Illusionary Counter: Not addressing 6s CD? Needs to be 8s. Bleeds change is fine though, I'd say 5 for 8s though, bleeds are meant to be long duration but weak.

> Ethereal Chop: Confusion is a bad idea, it's a really really bad idea on auto. People already have issues playing around it on select skills. No. Make it bleed or poison if you have to.

> Mirror Strikes: See above.

> Lingering Thoughts: Bleeds are weak but last a long time, the bleed duration should be 6-8s. Count recharge at 15s is out of line with even core values which would be 10s.

> Ether Barrage: 2s of bleed is questionable, bring it up to 3s.

> Imaginary Axes: Really? Confusion? Really? Switch it to 1 stack of bleed per axe for 6s. Also get rid of the extra axe from Mirrored Axes? No-one thought maybe this is too strong a trait giving -20% CD AND a 25-50% buff to most axe skills?

> Chaos Vortex: Yeah I agree it's easily side stepped. I would implement the changes above first then revise it, maybe reducing the duration of the conditions a little.

>

> I don't agree with half of them, especially adding confusion to mirage attacks, many already have problems dealing with confusion despite it having plenty of counterplay. All in all straight up swapping torment for bleeding across all mirage weapons and skills is the first thing I would do and then evaluate from there before changing maim the disillusioned.

>

> Ele doesn't need buffs at all, what it needs is the power creep from classes like holo, firebrand, soulbeast reducing and rev's easy might stacking to be dealt with so it's not killing them in seconds. Ele has really good builds in weaver that just aren't competitive either because everyone has too much stab, does too much damage or has really high uptime of defence.

>

> If I had to suggest 2 buffs for ele I'd say increase the duration of the water field on steam surge to 4s and then reduce Ashen Blasts radius to 240 but make it a PBAoE while cleaning up the aftercasts a tad.

 

Core guardian damage is now over the roof and core warrior dmg is not far off, **a bull's charge can hit an ele for 8k while warrior has demolisher amulet**, of all the classes that currently oppress the ele....ranger-rev and holo are the less offenders with warrior, guardian, thief and necro being the main culprits.

 

You can hold a holo at bay even with a tempest...a core guardian can crit you for 8k+ dmg out of nowhere and it has the sustain of a bruiser despite being a burst build, the herald is a +1 at most and it's quite weak to condi dmg of which ele has got plenty to offer.

 

Ha I think you're talking about s/d .everything else doesn't hold a candle to guardian, warrior and necro:

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Ranger- sic em and stance toned down

 

Necro- mobility increased via worm insta tele.slightly.scourge Condi spam dealt with,not sure how.

 

Thief- back stab damage reduced,stealth duration reduced or stealth on dodge changed.small over all damage buffs on core/dd weapon skills.

 

Holo- reduction in sustain and slight nurf to cc

 

Mirage- reduction in amount of Condi’s They can inflict in such little time.the ability to attack while evading should have some drawback even if it is a spec mechanic.

 

Guard- dh bow improved.ally restriction removed from MI

 

Ele- buffed to once again exist

 

Warrior-never played so cant comment.

[DigiQWill.6378]

Mirage

* Change Mirage Cloak to not be able to evade while immobilized or CCd if not traited to do so.

* Exchange Desert Distortion and Dune Cloak in the traitline so that Desert Distortion becomes a grandmaster trait. Change Dune Cloak (possibly) to remove a condition when Mirage Cloak is applied (or when you evade, still to be determined).

* Change Elusive Mind to make it a CC break stun only, removing the condition management. Reduce Exhaustion gained to 4 seconds.

* Make Detargetting skills counterrable with Revealed.

These suggestions would affect only how Mirage can chain damage mitigation, and would improve usual quality of life by not pairing performing traits with other performing traits.

 

You could still per say evade when CCd if you teleport to your Mirror, but would allow more general counterplay.

[Yannir.4132]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Blinding Ashes - This isn't a good change, core abilities have barely any leap finishes, buff to weaver but nerf to core drastically. Please no.

 

That's what I get for not double-checking. Totally remembered that Burning Speed and Burning Retreat were Leaps. They are not.

What I want to do here is give the player more control over when this trait procs instead of it proccing from a random Burn. I'll revise the idea to make it better for core.

 

> Electric Discharge - The problem with this skill was always it's instant damage nature that has 0 counterplay. Yeah it sucks it was nerfed but I'd rather see the skill changed.

 

This could be made into a projectile to give it more counterplay chances.

 

> Earthen Blast - It's a minor so I don't really think it's that big a deal. I would leave as it, it's simple and true to core values.

 

Yes but it's a pretty pathetic minor when you compare it to Elemental Attunement, Sunspot, Healing Ripple or Electric Discharge, which are all in the same tier of traits.

 

> Geomancer's Defence - It's a minor, stop trying to make minors do as much as major traits. Fine as is.

 

I'm pushing the Earth traitline because it doesn't do enough IMO. So I'm infusing it with something that it already has, which is synergy with Bleeding.

The changes I mentioned leaving out of the OP have to do with a re-shuffling of the GM traits. I was going to merge Stone Heart and Diamond Skin into a single GM trait that's neither directly but catches the idea of both. Although I'm not even sure Earth needs to have an anti-condition trait at all.

The open slot would have space for a GM that is more offensively oriented. I don't exactly know what that is which is why I left the suggestion out.

 

> Harmonious Conduit - I think a better avenue is to increase cool downs on CC that have progressively been lowered and reduce stability that's been increased in access since expansions tbh.

 

Sure. But doing that doesn't change the fact that this trait was too weak from the start. What is probably the most common class/weapon combination to try and interrupt your Overload? It's a D/P Thief with their Headshot, a skill which is still exactly the same as the day the game launched. Having 2 stacks of Stability means that the thief would have to use more resources to interrupt you if their Steal is on cd.

 

> Maim The Disillusioned - I don't see this trait as being too problematic in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't change especially if changing all torment on mirage.

 

Sure. We can leave the current implementation in. It wasn't a problem before Mirage.

 

> Illusionary Counter: Not addressing 6s CD? Needs to be 8s. Bleeds change is fine though, I'd say 5 for 8s though, bleeds are meant to be long duration but weak.

 

Sure, let's change that cd.

 

> Ethereal Chop: Confusion is a bad idea, it's a really really bad idea on auto. People already have issues playing around it on select skills. No. Make it bleed or poison if you have to.

> Mirror Strikes: See above.

 

Yeah, that wasn't thought through well enough. Confusion on auto is a pretty bad idea.

 

> Lingering Thoughts: Bleeds are weak but last a long time, the bleed duration should be 6-8s. Count recharge at 15s is out of line with even core values which would be 10s.

 

Well, it's either that, or we remove the ammo and lower the cd a bit. It's doing too much currently.

 

> Imaginary Axes: Really? Confusion? Really? Switch it to 1 stack of bleed per axe for 6s. Also get rid of the extra axe from Mirrored Axes? No-one thought maybe this is too strong a trait giving -20% CD AND a 25-50% buff to most axe skills?

 

Confusion isn't too bad when Torment is absent. It's the combination of those 2 that people have issues with, not either one separately.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

>

> That's what I get for not double-checking. Totally remembered that Burning Speed and Burning Retreat were Leaps. They are not.

> What I want to do here is give the player more control over when this trait procs instead of it proccing from a random Burn. I'll revise the idea to make it better for core.

>

> This could be made into a projectile to give it more counterplay chances.

>

> Yes but it's a pretty pathetic minor when you compare it to Elemental Attunement, Sunspot, Healing Ripple or Electric Discharge, which are all in the same tier of traits.

>

> I'm pushing the Earth traitline because it doesn't do enough IMO. So I'm infusing it with something that it already has, which is synergy with Bleeding.

> The changes I mentioned leaving out of the OP have to do with a re-shuffling of the GM traits. I was going to merge Stone Heart and Diamond Skin into a single GM trait that's neither directly but catches the idea of both. Although I'm not even sure Earth needs to have an anti-condition trait at all.

> The open slot would have space for a GM that is more offensively oriented. I don't exactly know what that is which is why I left the suggestion out.

>

> Sure. But doing that doesn't change the fact that this trait was too weak from the start. What is probably the most common class/weapon combination to try and interrupt your Overload? It's a D/P Thief with their Headshot, a skill which is still exactly the same as the day the game launched. Having 2 stacks of Stability means that the thief would have to use more resources to interrupt you if their Steal is on cd.

>

> Sure. We can leave the current implementation in. It wasn't a problem before Mirage.

>

> Sure, let's change that cd.

>

> Yeah, that wasn't thought through well enough. Confusion on auto is a pretty bad idea.

>

> Well, it's either that, or we remove the ammo and lower the cd a bit. It's doing too much currently.

>

> Confusion isn't too bad when Torment is absent. It's the combination of those 2 that people have issues with, not either one separately.

 

I can respect wanting more control over the blind for weaver but it's very manageable on core/tempest so I'd leave as is on blinding ashes tbh.

 

I was thinking electric discharge could be like PI is tbh.

 

Damage and cripple is more or less similar to sunspot, I'd maybe increase the targets to 5 and an argument can be made for 4s cripple but it's not needed imo. -10% damage taken on geomancers defence is quite nice, as I say it's a minor and it adds up nicely with prot. I do agree that earth as a trait line is rather lacking but I think it's an issue with the major traits tbh. I'd personally rather see serrated stones lose it's 5% damage mod and say you take less damage from bleeding targets 5-10%.

 

Harmonious Conduit is always going to be awkward, it's a damage buff in a support spec, I think removing the damage buff would be in order then maybe have the extra stack of stab. At the same time though being 1 stack means it has counterplay, use a CC then another, yes it's weak to DP thief but builds need weakness. I know there's a lot of builds out there without clear weaknesses anymore but still I'd rather we step off the gas everywhere else and see.

 

I'd be fine with removing the ammo from lingering thoughts tbh but I think ANet want it to be a PvE DPS spec so it needs it to get the clones out fast enough. Unilaterally I think switching torment to bleeds across the mirage skills is probably enough to sort out mirage and it's a pretty big change to get a handle on so see how it goes and add in confusion on some skills later and look at lingering thoughts.

 

Watch as ANet bring out a balance patch tomorrow and it halves torment duration on maim the disillusioned, touches the axe ambush by -1s on all the torment for PvP only and then nerfs mirage defences all over xD

[Yannir.4132]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> I'd personally rather see serrated stones lose it's 5% damage mod and say you take less damage from bleeding targets 5-10%.

 

I wouldn't do that. On Necromancer that trait is called Putrid Defense and it's arguably the worst major trait on the class.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > I'd personally rather see serrated stones lose it's 5% damage mod and say you take less damage from bleeding targets 5-10%.

>

> I wouldn't do that. On Necromancer that trait is called Putrid Defense and it's arguably the worst major trait on the class.

 

Yeah but they don't have permanent protection and stone heart to reduce damage down to 500-1000 from even the strongest DPS classes :D

 

It's more fitting than a 5% damage mod tbh, earth is a defence and condition line, why does it have a power mod in it? I don't mind what it becomes I don't see 5% damage to bleeding foes as conducive with the theme of the line.

[Yannir.4132]

New revision. Marked as _REVISION C_

Changes from the previous revision are mainly in the Mesmer and Ranger sections.

 

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> I'd like to clarify though: If your goal was to nerf damage wholesale for every single class, I'd totally approve of whirling wrath returning to what it was 2 years ago, and MB getting a hefty nerf to the point of only critting 4-5.5k max. It seems though you're trying to cast a wide net here with changes to every class which is GREAT to see, but it looks like you're trying to do minimal work to balance the outliers in our current meta. At least that's what I assumed when I said I'd be opposed to those two damage nerfs.

 

Just saw this now.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm going for. I may have missed some of the offenders initially but I'm hoping to catch most of them by the time I'm done with this.

I'm going to leave the Core Guard changes as they currently are until someone convinces me otherwise. I think nerfing RI to 33% will either force a glassier amulet or the build becomes much more unreliable. GS will suffer less from this than Hammer though because multihits give more opportunity for crits.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Revert phantasms - phantasm now count to the 3 limit illusions and can be shattered. All phantasms animations and skills reverted.

The torment to bleed sounds good but seeing as bleed is more of an ramp up condi you either will give more bleeds for torments or more uptime.

Mirage cloak no longer allows to evade while cced.

EM - exhaustion removed, stunbreak removed, now cleanse 1 condi and one mic.

IH - baseline, rework all ambushes taking this into account. Reason being ambushes are either bad or strong depending if IH is present on build.