Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Every Zerg- fbs+ scourges brainless spamm and other allies picking up scraps or opponents that are on sidelines outa scourge aoe fields reach. Goes for both sides, sounds like good design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 No one said it was a good or bad design. It just is. And yes..., it’s more than just FB and Scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Who is mindlessly aoe spaming killing masses of opponents? Not arguing I legit want to kno. There’s definitely issues with some small group/ roaming builds like soulbeast,holo and mirage but other than Condi Mirage no ones brainlessly walking in a direction spamming aoe’s racking in the kills. Roamer s have there op builds that are overperfoming vs other Roamer/small groups but they have little impact in the blobs and roaming usually contributes little to server success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xterra.6172 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no shit it looks like "spam". you could nerf the piss out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > All classes are built around spamming skills? Really? Yes. This entire game is spammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > FB has too many skills added to the class but because of this you need classes like scorge. Its about as "22" as can be you MUST go after both classes in the same update to fix them in wvw. > > > > Revs problem is all of its big skills get culled when any thing else is going on to the point that there dmg and skill are comply lacking any tell for ppl. Its border line game exploitation. > > > > The other classes are not as bad and have high weakness that can be dealt with by using the right class but FB and scorge are way overpowers but because of each other. As for rev it just exploring the game because the skills are too flashy and get culled most of the time. > > people seem to ignore the rev skill animation cull. getting hit with 1200 range hammer damage without seeing a body flying through the air or the big hammer projection wind up happens regularly. Its a mass cognitive dissonance in the GW2 wvw comuintly it realty needs to be fixed as it makes rev way stronger then it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Problem with scourge and fb is that one set of their skillset is proactive (FB tomes, scourge utilities) while the other is reactive and spammy (FB mantras, scourge shade) as no other spec. Increasing shade CD isn't the best way to nerf it because you can still rotate your 3 charge on high radius/long duration to get those corrupt. Nerfing Dhuumfire and f2 probably made it worse by forcing it to be played as power (soul reaping got buffed) while keeping as much corrupt. I would rather have scourge be played in condi as designed (as long as it's more balanced than it was at release) but losing the radius, duration and ability to burst damage in every situation that doesn't require him to get closer to the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > All classes are built around spamming skills? Really? > > Yes, actually. Name some that aren't? > Lemme think. Well you got me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 That have the same impact as scourge and fb in blobs can’t think of any no.all classes designed to spam,k let’s go with that for sec. if the result of that spamming doesn’t matter due to all classes mechanically disigned to do so than balance is irrelevant and balance patches nor 90% of the threads in this forum are meaningless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 U guys should jump into the thread below this one where a player is complaining about constant squad kick due to him being DE. U can explain to him that it’s unfortunate that he’s being kicked by zergs looking for fb/scourges etc and that the Zerg commander clearly doesn’t understand that the DE can contribute just as much since it’s designed to mindlessly skill spam and if does so will have the same effectiveness as a scourge lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vova.2640 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I don't really like posting here since it just feels like a lost cause... but i really like OPs post so... > @"Caysadia.7405" said: > 1. **Scourge** > Much of the current meta's problems can honestly be attributed to scourge. Having a class that does 10 target cap on a large portion of it's damaging attacks makes it near impossible to push any competent group. The high amount of corrupts it can provides is unnerving, especially with the scepter buff several months ago driving even power necros to take up curses for the added boon rip. It's high area denial and boonrip potential has been universally agreed upon to be unfun to fight in many capacities. I propose at the very least another look towards devouring darkness, and it's boonrip potential, and a suggestion that may not be feasible but would be much appreciated would be the removal of the PBAoE shade around the scourge. It feels bad whether you're roaming or zerging to be punished so strongly for pushing your enemy, and is a big contributor to the pirateshipesque meta we've had since PoF dropped. I'm sure others have even more suggestions to lessen the power of easily the most popular zerg class in the game, but if scourge is adjusted its counterpart firebrand would need to be touched as well. > I think the best way to go about scourge is to remove Sand Savant trait and put a new support oriented trait instead. Make shades hit 5 targets by default and the radius around 240. The new trait should be something like "barriers you grant: +20% more barrier amount, last +2sec longer, provide -10% dmg+condi dmg reduction while active." Obviously some more balance tweaks will be needed overtime. However, this will make support scourge slightly more appealing and lower the amount of ground scourges can over in red. > 2. **Firebrand** > Firebrand isn't necessarily a problem right now, and in fact is the only real counter to the obscene amounts of boonrip and damage scourges can put out, with it's 10 target stab and high master of all trades support output. But the fates of scourge and firebrand are tightly intertwined, and if one is to be touched so must the other. As it stands now since the changes to boon mesmer and superspeed nerfs engineer experienced, firebrand has become really the only support you need in a group. Look at any other support and think "what if this was a firebrand instead?" and you'd find that a firebrand would be the better choice in nearly every situation. Sure you may want a condiclear/immobilize tempest, or a superspeed purity of purpose holo, but neither of the 2 classes come anywhere near to the versatility firebrand provides. The combination of an instantaneous rez, extremely high healing effectiveness, high stab uptime, the only real provider of large scale aegis, and serviceable cc makes it a little too powerful, especially if scourge was to be nerfed. If scourge is to nerfed firebrand would have to closely follow behind. Keeping its strong points of MI res, high stab uptime, and oodles of healing effectivness and aegis would be a good thing for the class, but the sheer amount of boons such as regen and prot that it can output, as well as its strong condi clear in resolve would need to be looked at if scourge's corrupts were to be looked at. No one wants to return to the melee ball neverending fights meta of HoT, but a good medium between it and the hard ranged gameplay of today would be much appreciated. > FBs just does way too much altogether. I'd say a good start to dealing with FB would be hitting their healing capacity. Guards were always there to provide boons, lets keep it at that. My suggestion would be, give FB the same treatment scourge got with Dhuumfire. Make Pure Of Heart (Aegis heals when it blocks an attack) have a 5sec ICD when used together with FB elite spec. Guards will still be heart and soul of wvw groups because of the boons and stability they provide, but at least we open room for some other healers to come in to play. > 3. **Revenant** > Revenant is surprisingly in a good spot, which is something I didn't really expect. But if the other 2 juggernauts of WvW are to be nerfed revenant would need some sort of adjustment as well. In my opinion the damage of rev is in a good spot right now, where the problem lies is in how fast and easy the damage comes out. Even scourge has to wait 15 or 20 seconds before they can shade spike again, while revenant's high damaging abilites have extremely low cooldowns. A look at phase smash and Coalescence of Ruin's cooldowns may be in order, But if scourge and firebrand get adjusted many of the oppressing issues rev has today may not be a problem if groups are able to simply push through the damage towards the stack. It would have to be something that is closely looked at after scourge and firebrands' effectiveness are looked at. > Rev just need slightly longer CD on their hammer skills, and less dmg on hammer 5. CoR - CD from 4 to 6. Phase Smash - CD from 8 to 10, cost from 5 to 10. Drop the hammer - -10-20% dmg (it's already 2sec aoe cc, blast, high dmg) > * **Scoring** > A couple years ago Arenanet introduced the skirmish mechanic, wanting to curb how much nightcapping effected the gamemode while still allowing players in those timezones to contribute to their server. The system was fine on release, but having not been touched for so long the cracks in the system have been revealed. I can't speak for EU, but several servers in NA have been able to maintain their current standing by simply playing around their enemies' playtime. PPT shouldn't be discouraged, people have the right to play the game however they want, but currently PPT and nightcapping lends itself to victory way too much per week. Some form of primetime system, where for example whoever takes 1st place during the 3 skirmishes in primetime gains 2 or 4 more victory points would make sure a server can't climb the tiers solely through nightcapping and off hour ppt, while retaining the importance of objective control and PPT. > Make prime time give more points per skirmish than off hours. For example, 7-9,9-11 EST skirmishes can give 15-12-9 points instead of 5-4-3. This will make it easier to compete with all the night PPT'ers. Lastly, buff base Ele in wvw. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > U guys should jump into the thread below this one where a player is complaining about constant squad kick due to him being DE. U can explain to him that it’s unfortunate that he’s being kicked by zergs looking for fb/scourges etc and that the Zerg commander clearly doesn’t understand that the DE can contribute just as much since it’s designed to mindlessly skill spam and if does so will have the same effectiveness as a scourge lol The scourge toolkit is just better than the deadeyes for what medium to large scale fights require not more spammy. Deadeye skills are too easy to counter and deadeyes have no melee stopping power whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Yes hense why zergs mostly look for the fb/scourges because their toolkit’s/design allow them to be the MOST effective specs in Zerg battles which leads to all zergs mostly consisting of the same specific specs, there’s a reason for it. That is boring for most people from what I’ve read in multiple post and not a healthy design. I’m not saying fb/scourges shouldn’t be effective in a group, ofcourse they should be given the idea of the specs. Just think that if scourges and fb were toned down a bit and some classes viability were brought up a bit than there would more diverse groups. Same goes for roaming/small group fights tho that’s another thing itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGhosty.4296 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just as an idea, what if balance was completely separated from the main game and everyone had a character just for WvW. This character could take the role of an NPC where their stats are equivalent to the NPCs on the maps. Instead of the standard classes, they create loadouts based on function (sieger, roamer, etc. Titles just off the top of my head and not indicative of the actual functions) or potentially carry over the sPvP system where everyone is leveled out. I don't know it would ever work, might potentially be something to test in the lesser used WvW map but I short of a full reset and swap I don't know that you can ever truly balance the game mode due to player perception,standard tactics, and our very human tendency to abuse whatever advantage we can find. The only other thing that comes to mind would be to have monthly rotations of buffs that force meta changes, similar to the no down state weekends and such. Put those on a rotating basis and tailor them to the idea of disrupting the meta and letting lesser used classes shine. This disruption would mean different tactics depending on what active effect was currently on. I would also like to see much smaller maps be put into play maybe halfway between sPvP map size and current WvW map that cater to smaller groups over zerg blobbing. Controlling points on these maps could apply benefits for your faction or something to make it worth sending a team to fight there. Barring that, a system that encouraged groups together on lower pop maps could also serve a similar purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylden Ar.3724 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 > @"MrGhosty.4296" said: > Just as an idea, what if balance was completely separated from the main game and everyone had a character just for WvW. This character could take the role of an NPC where their stats are equivalent to the NPCs on the maps. Instead of the standard classes, they create loadouts based on function (sieger, roamer, etc. Titles just off the top of my head and not indicative of the actual functions) or potentially carry over the sPvP system where everyone is leveled out. > Totally would not work for vets, but I could see that as what happens when you enter WvW sub-80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xterra.6172 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. > > Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol and despite my explanation you still don't get it. which makes so much sense as to why you're in the forums complaining. listen, i don't like the wvw group meta any more than you do. but i at least understand the game's combat fundamentals and can differentiate "spam" from blobs of the same class grouped up together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > > > > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > > > > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > > > > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. > > > > Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol > > and despite my explanation you still don't get it. which makes so much sense as to why you're in the forums complaining. > > listen, i don't like the wvw group meta any more than you do. but i at least understand the game's combat fundamentals and can differentiate "spam" from blobs of the same class grouped up together. Understand combat mechanics and differentiate spam from blobs of the same class grouped up together?thats good that u understand the mechanics and can differentiate spam from blobs of same class grouped together lol. what does that even mean? I’m sure anyone with half a brain cell can understand gw2 very simple game mechanics as well as differentiate spam from grouped classes,the red circles stacked everywhere is kinda hard to miss but if seeing them makes u feel special like than look at u go bud haha that’s awsome :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Yes hense why zergs mostly look for the fb/scourges because their toolkit’s/design allow them to be the MOST effective specs in Zerg battles which leads to all zergs mostly consisting of the same specific specs, there’s a reason for it. That is boring for most people from what I’ve read in multiple post and not a healthy design. I’m not saying fb/scourges shouldn’t be effective in a group, ofcourse they should be given the idea of the specs. Just think that if scourges and fb were toned down a bit and some classes viability were brought up a bit than there would more diverse groups. Same goes for roaming/small group fights tho that’s another thing itself So what class is supposed to be competing with guard for main stab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Yes hense why zergs mostly look for the fb/scourges because their toolkit’s/design allow them to be the MOST effective specs in Zerg battles which leads to all zergs mostly consisting of the same specific specs, there’s a reason for it. That is boring for most people from what I’ve read in multiple post and not a healthy design. I’m not saying fb/scourges shouldn’t be effective in a group, ofcourse they should be given the idea of the specs. Just think that if scourges and fb were toned down a bit and some classes viability were brought up a bit than there would more diverse groups. Same goes for roaming/small group fights tho that’s another thing itself > > So what class is supposed to be competing with guard for main stab? > > Scrapper could have fitted that role with a bit more stab before december nerf. Anet chose to refocus the spec on its pvp theme... > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > > > > > > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > > > > > > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > > > > > > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. > > > > > > Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol > > > > and despite my explanation you still don't get it. which makes so much sense as to why you're in the forums complaining. > > > > listen, i don't like the wvw group meta any more than you do. but i at least understand the game's combat fundamentals and can differentiate "spam" from blobs of the same class grouped up together. > > Understand combat mechanics and differentiate spam from blobs of the same class grouped up together?thats good that u understand the mechanics and can differentiate spam from blobs of same class grouped together lol. what does that even mean? I’m sure anyone with half a brain cell can understand gw2 very simple game mechanics as well as differentiate spam from grouped classes,the red circles stacked everywhere is kinda hard to miss but if seeing them makes u feel special like than look at u go bud haha that’s awsome :) Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that those 2 things are linked. If scourge was providing lots of corrupts in a non spammy/reduced radius way, zergs wouldn't stack it as much. We are in a situation where its design makes you take as much scourges as possible until the breaking point (of making your squad weak) to get the most value from it. Feels like the same kind of abuse epidemic was about. On top of that scourge provides decent barrier without investing in healing power.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Acyk.9671" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > Yes hense why zergs mostly look for the fb/scourges because their toolkit’s/design allow them to be the MOST effective specs in Zerg battles which leads to all zergs mostly consisting of the same specific specs, there’s a reason for it. That is boring for most people from what I’ve read in multiple post and not a healthy design. I’m not saying fb/scourges shouldn’t be effective in a group, ofcourse they should be given the idea of the specs. Just think that if scourges and fb were toned down a bit and some classes viability were brought up a bit than there would more diverse groups. Same goes for roaming/small group fights tho that’s another thing itself > > > > So what class is supposed to be competing with guard for main stab? > > > > > > Scrapper could have fitted that role with a bit more stab before december nerf. Anet chose to refocus the spec on its pvp theme... > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > > > > > > > > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > > > > > > > > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > > > > > > > > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. > > > > > > > > Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol > > > > > > and despite my explanation you still don't get it. which makes so much sense as to why you're in the forums complaining. > > > > > > listen, i don't like the wvw group meta any more than you do. but i at least understand the game's combat fundamentals and can differentiate "spam" from blobs of the same class grouped up together. > > > > Understand combat mechanics and differentiate spam from blobs of the same class grouped up together?thats good that u understand the mechanics and can differentiate spam from blobs of same class grouped together lol. what does that even mean? I’m sure anyone with half a brain cell can understand gw2 very simple game mechanics as well as differentiate spam from grouped classes,the red circles stacked everywhere is kinda hard to miss but if seeing them makes u feel special like than look at u go bud haha that’s awsome :) > > Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that those 2 things are linked. If scourge was providing lots of corrupts in a non spammy/reduced radius way, zergs wouldn't stack it as much. We are in a situation where its design makes you take as much scourges as possible until the breaking point (of making your squad weak) to get the most value from it. Feels like the same kind of abuse epidemic was about. On top of that scourge provides decent barrier without investing in healing power.... Nah, Psyco doesnt get it. 'mindless spam hurr hurr" can de said for all classes: Mirage/mesmer spam clones Eles spam aoe Firebrands spam boons Reves spam auto attacks and CoR Engies spam heals Thieves spam dodges and teleporting around Soulbeasts spam boons with massive pewpew singletarget dmg plus huge mobility skills The difference between an "omg spam skill omegalul" and knowing WHEN to cast WHAT, makes a huge difference. People think (and rightly, to a point) that scourge is easy cause of the aoes. You waste that shroud, its another 24-30s of getting your ability to bomb again, which could be huge in the fight. Imagine half scourges of a squad wasting their bomb. Enemy will just kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Acyk.9671" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Yes hense why zergs mostly look for the fb/scourges because their toolkit’s/design allow them to be the MOST effective specs in Zerg battles which leads to all zergs mostly consisting of the same specific specs, there’s a reason for it. That is boring for most people from what I’ve read in multiple post and not a healthy design. I’m not saying fb/scourges shouldn’t be effective in a group, ofcourse they should be given the idea of the specs. Just think that if scourges and fb were toned down a bit and some classes viability were brought up a bit than there would more diverse groups. Same goes for roaming/small group fights tho that’s another thing itself > > > > > > So what class is supposed to be competing with guard for main stab? > > > > > > > > > > Scrapper could have fitted that role with a bit more stab before december nerf. Anet chose to refocus the spec on its pvp theme... > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > > > > > > > > > > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. > > > > > > > > > > Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol > > > > > > > > and despite my explanation you still don't get it. which makes so much sense as to why you're in the forums complaining. > > > > > > > > listen, i don't like the wvw group meta any more than you do. but i at least understand the game's combat fundamentals and can differentiate "spam" from blobs of the same class grouped up together. > > > > > > Understand combat mechanics and differentiate spam from blobs of the same class grouped up together?thats good that u understand the mechanics and can differentiate spam from blobs of same class grouped together lol. what does that even mean? I’m sure anyone with half a brain cell can understand gw2 very simple game mechanics as well as differentiate spam from grouped classes,the red circles stacked everywhere is kinda hard to miss but if seeing them makes u feel special like than look at u go bud haha that’s awsome :) > > > > Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that those 2 things are linked. If scourge was providing lots of corrupts in a non spammy/reduced radius way, zergs wouldn't stack it as much. We are in a situation where its design makes you take as much scourges as possible until the breaking point (of making your squad weak) to get the most value from it. Feels like the same kind of abuse epidemic was about. On top of that scourge provides decent barrier without investing in healing power.... > > Nah, Psyco doesnt get it. 'mindless spam hurr hurr" can de said for all classes: > Mirage/mesmer spam clones > Eles spam aoe > Firebrands spam boons > Reves spam auto attacks and CoR > Engies spam heals > Thieves spam dodges and teleporting around > Soulbeasts spam boons with massive pewpew singletarget dmg plus huge mobility skills > I was answering Xterra that stacking scourge in a zerg is a symptom and not the cause but it doesn't matter. And yes lot of spec are spammy nowadays... > The difference between an "omg spam skill omegalul" and knowing WHEN to cast WHAT, makes a huge difference. People think (and rightly, to a point) that scourge is easy cause of the aoes. You waste that shroud, its another 24-30s of getting your ability to bomb again, which could be huge in the fight. Imagine half scourges of a squad wasting their bomb. Enemy will just kill you. > > If only this was actually true. A spec that has f2-f5 be both range and melee while reactivating f1 on 10 target overall, large radius and long duration do not incentive good and smart gameplay. Any decent player able to keep up the rotation will do the work, even if they are less efficient than good ones, especially in zergs where numbers matter. F5 CD is not high enough to punish players wasting it in a pirate ship meta where rev have higher damage. Scourge playing power build with soul bards give them even more room for mistake and still drop bomb without loosing too much damage. Obviously gvg is a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Acyk.9671" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Yes hense why zergs mostly look for the fb/scourges because their toolkit’s/design allow them to be the MOST effective specs in Zerg battles which leads to all zergs mostly consisting of the same specific specs, there’s a reason for it. That is boring for most people from what I’ve read in multiple post and not a healthy design. I’m not saying fb/scourges shouldn’t be effective in a group, ofcourse they should be given the idea of the specs. Just think that if scourges and fb were toned down a bit and some classes viability were brought up a bit than there would more diverse groups. Same goes for roaming/small group fights tho that’s another thing itself > > > > > > So what class is supposed to be competing with guard for main stab? > > > > > > > > > > Scrapper could have fitted that role with a bit more stab before december nerf. Anet chose to refocus the spec on its pvp theme... > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > > > > > > > > > > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. > > > > > > > > > > Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol > > > > > > > > and despite my explanation you still don't get it. which makes so much sense as to why you're in the forums complaining. > > > > > > > > listen, i don't like the wvw group meta any more than you do. but i at least understand the game's combat fundamentals and can differentiate "spam" from blobs of the same class grouped up together. > > > > > > Understand combat mechanics and differentiate spam from blobs of the same class grouped up together?thats good that u understand the mechanics and can differentiate spam from blobs of same class grouped together lol. what does that even mean? I’m sure anyone with half a brain cell can understand gw2 very simple game mechanics as well as differentiate spam from grouped classes,the red circles stacked everywhere is kinda hard to miss but if seeing them makes u feel special like than look at u go bud haha that’s awsome :) > > > > Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that those 2 things are linked. If scourge was providing lots of corrupts in a non spammy/reduced radius way, zergs wouldn't stack it as much. We are in a situation where its design makes you take as much scourges as possible until the breaking point (of making your squad weak) to get the most value from it. Feels like the same kind of abuse epidemic was about. On top of that scourge provides decent barrier without investing in healing power.... > > Nah, Psyco doesnt get it. 'mindless spam hurr hurr" can de said for all classes: > Mirage/mesmer spam clones > Eles spam aoe > Firebrands spam boons > Reves spam auto attacks and CoR > Engies spam heals > Thieves spam dodges and teleporting around > Soulbeasts spam boons with massive pewpew singletarget dmg plus huge mobility skills > > The difference between an "omg spam skill omegalul" and knowing WHEN to cast WHAT, makes a huge difference. People think (and rightly, to a point) that scourge is easy cause of the aoes. You waste that shroud, its another 24-30s of getting your ability to bomb again, which could be huge in the fight. Imagine half scourges of a squad wasting their bomb. Enemy will just kill you. > > I did not state anywhere the game is not spammy I simply said the the mindless spam/stacking of aoe’s like scourge being main example is far more effective and exploitable than other classes that can do the same,rev’s as an example can spam away but doesn’t negatively impact gameplay of other players like a group of scourges walking forward spamming aoe bombs everywhere. If u think that’s the same thing than somthing wrong lol ur second paragraph kinda proves my point aswell explains how the spam skills are different between the classes so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Acyk.9671" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Yes hense why zergs mostly look for the fb/scourges because their toolkit’s/design allow them to be the MOST effective specs in Zerg battles which leads to all zergs mostly consisting of the same specific specs, there’s a reason for it. That is boring for most people from what I’ve read in multiple post and not a healthy design. I’m not saying fb/scourges shouldn’t be effective in a group, ofcourse they should be given the idea of the specs. Just think that if scourges and fb were toned down a bit and some classes viability were brought up a bit than there would more diverse groups. Same goes for roaming/small group fights tho that’s another thing itself > > > > > > So what class is supposed to be competing with guard for main stab? > > > > > > > > > > Scrapper could have fitted that role with a bit more stab before december nerf. Anet chose to refocus the spec on its pvp theme... > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Xterra.6172" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > By ur argument all skill require pressing bottons than therefore are designed as spamming? So if arenet deside a class that just walks forward spamming large aoe’s everywhere and stack with allies doingvthe same delete most opponents in seconds in huge area’s around battles forcing everyone to die or stay on outskirts of battle picking off the scraps,this is ok cuz other classes have to press a button to use skills? Oh wait I just described scourge.Than gues all nerf threads and balance itself is moot because every class must be balanced because it’s mech are based around pressing buttons to preform a action lol right! A scourge mindlessly spamming is far different than almost any class spamming there skill on a skill to reward level, look at that ranger,engi and thief just spammInfo his skills and the equal impact it has with scourge lol > > > > > > > > > > > > it's literally every class in the game that is designed like this. not just scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > there are only 4 weapon skills and autoattacks available to a player. it wouldn't make much sense to jack up the weapon skill cooldowns so that all we're doing is autoattacking each other for 3 minutes would it? and most utility and F skills on are ~30 sec cooldowns give or take which is pretty reasonable as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > the real reason that people complain about "spam" is that we're piling up a bunch of the same class into a group and then fighting each other with it. no kitten it looks like "spam". you could nerf the kitten out every class's cooldowns to like 5 minutes and it would still look like "spam" because 12 necros is 12 necros. i'm getting real sick of this "spam" complaint. > > > > > > > > > > Seriously? Scourge is only class in game that can mindlessly spam aoe’s with other scourges in a group and walk forward spamming deleting large amounts of opponents. Thanks for explaining how all classes press buttons to perform skills :) so 6 thieves aoe next to a fire brand mindlessly killing hordes of enemies? Ranger,engi and warrior too? Weird it’s only scourges I see doing this. It’s funny if I mindlessly walk forward and spam on my s/d thief results are vastly different than when I do on my scourge,must just be me cuz both require pressing buttons lol > > > > > > > > and despite my explanation you still don't get it. which makes so much sense as to why you're in the forums complaining. > > > > > > > > listen, i don't like the wvw group meta any more than you do. but i at least understand the game's combat fundamentals and can differentiate "spam" from blobs of the same class grouped up together. > > > > > > Understand combat mechanics and differentiate spam from blobs of the same class grouped up together?thats good that u understand the mechanics and can differentiate spam from blobs of same class grouped together lol. what does that even mean? I’m sure anyone with half a brain cell can understand gw2 very simple game mechanics as well as differentiate spam from grouped classes,the red circles stacked everywhere is kinda hard to miss but if seeing them makes u feel special like than look at u go bud haha that’s awsome :) > > > > Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that those 2 things are linked. If scourge was providing lots of corrupts in a non spammy/reduced radius way, zergs wouldn't stack it as much. We are in a situation where its design makes you take as much scourges as possible until the breaking point (of making your squad weak) to get the most value from it. Feels like the same kind of abuse epidemic was about. On top of that scourge provides decent barrier without investing in healing power.... > > Nah, Psyco doesnt get it. 'mindless spam hurr hurr" can de said for all classes: > Mirage/mesmer spam clones > Eles spam aoe > Firebrands spam boons > Reves spam auto attacks and CoR > Engies spam heals > Thieves spam dodges and teleporting around > Soulbeasts spam boons with massive pewpew singletarget dmg plus huge mobility skills > > The difference between an "omg spam skill omegalul" and knowing WHEN to cast WHAT, makes a huge difference. People think (and rightly, to a point) that scourge is easy cause of the aoes. You waste that shroud, its another 24-30s of getting your ability to bomb again, which could be huge in the fight. Imagine half scourges of a squad wasting their bomb. Enemy will just kill you. Sry guys I double posted. It’s 2019 and there’s not a simple delete post button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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