WvW needs an amlet system!

[Eleazar.9478]

I would like to point out wvw does not revolve around point rotation

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

>

> 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

>

> 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

>

>

> 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

>

>

> 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

>

> 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

>

> 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

>

> Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

 

For what it's worth, I agree fully but only with the following riders;

 

1) Not just one amulet, but one for weapons, armor, and trinkets.

2) Infusion slots would still count for that bonus (so those that worked for them did not get shorted)

3) Unlike PvP, all the stat combos. The missing ones in PvP are due to bunker builds, which with no point rotation is not an issue in WvW.

 

If they could do that, and ONLY with testing confirmed to work first, would I agree it would be good for the mode.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > > Simply put, no way period! As a wvw old timer that would end my wvw days immediately and most likely send me off to find some other more configurable game with a similar mode.

> > >

> > > Amulets can stay in pvp.

> >

> > I have to ask why is that? What builds wouldn't work with a amulet system? And I've been around since release with only a year break due to being overseas. As power creep and stronger stats came I've only seen fights degrade and communities leave

> >

> > Gone are havoc and fight guild's

> >

> > Gone are the majority of roamers who would hang in os or bls on off hours for dueling, small gvgs and smack talking

> >

> > Laid to waste most server communities save for the banwagon giant servers

>

> As much as people complain about the power creep that's only a symptom of the problem. WvW is stale, and has been stale for quite a long time. That staleness is not due to power creep, it's due to stagnation. The game mode has, unfortunately, been ignored for far too long. So LS chapter after LS chapter, maps, metas, events, raids, etc have come to PvE, but what has WvW gotten? DBL, which was roundly panned, and even after fixes is the least played. Little weekend events that all trend weak. Rewards, which are nice. Legendary armor and backpack, once again me likey.

>

> But wait, you want to remove the legendary armors and backpacks, and the efforts players have put in to getting these items.

>

> Instead, taking WvW abilities off of PvE levels, and tuning them for WvW would be light years better. Streamline the engine to try and improve performance would be a great leap forward. Put in GvG support and functionality would, perhaps, entice some players back. These are improvements that would make WvW better.

 

So not that I disagree with alot of what your saying but,

 

1) wvw is stale it used to be focused around bursting heals/boons/damage now it's maintain uptime on aoes boon ect. Due to less stats choices and stats overall there were down sides to running certain builds Wana go tanky have to run soldiers, want to do do have to run zerker, want heal have to run clerics ect. The balance now is spam everything and the goal is to maintain it constantly

 

2) and players get them through PvP and the backpacks really don't change your stats that much you do it for skins really hell I got mine through PvP the wvw looks like booty

 

3) that's alot to unpack

 

A) sure but the skills team hasn't been

able to do that in 6 years

B) how can they do that? If they could they probably would've

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

> >

> > 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

> >

> > 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

> >

> >

> > 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

> >

> >

> > 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

> >

> > 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

> >

> > 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

> >

> > Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

>

> For what it's worth, I agree fully but only with the following riders;

>

> 1) Not just one amulet, but one for weapons, armor, and trinkets.

> 2) Infusion slots would still count for that bonus (so those that worked for them did not get shorted)

> 3) Unlike PvP, all the stat combos. The missing ones in PvP are due to bunker builds, which with no point rotation is not an issue in WvW.

>

> If they could do that, and ONLY with testing confirmed to work first, would I agree it would be good for the mode.

 

Agree, hands down, I do mention most of those points too. Have an updoot

[GaijinGuy.8476]

I like mixing and matching stats though. That's what I like about WvW, I can do what ever I want to do and I think that is a reason why some people like it.

 

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> I like mixing and matching stats though. That's what I like about WvW, I can do what ever I want to do and I think that is a reason why some people like it.

>

 

I get that but hear me out what if there was a stat set that covered it in broad strokes? I just find in my personal experiance most builds either A be optimized for team fighting or B be pvp builds with minor changes

[Stand The Wall.6987]

another one of these threads lol. im too lazy to use logic. amulet bad! steroid stats good!

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> another one of these threads lol. im too lazy to use logic. amulet bad! steroid stats good!

 

ya i hear ya (my one thread got removed just cause slighty teased somone who was clearly derailing the thread oh well) anywyays i have been thinking people really care about the gridn and stats what if they just broke it and said heres extra stats based of your wvw rank, that way you could have crazy 300 moments and old players would get rewarded, idk im thinking either have everything super balanced or just have everything super crazy this luke warm style aint cutting it

[Voltekka.2375]

Why do you make an identical thread? Didnt you already have one named "wvw needs amulet system, change my mind"?

These continuous threads offer nothing new.

[xZombieTaco.5809]

Please no. It'd destroy WvW and legit whatever WvW community is left would quit because of this.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"xZombieTaco.5809" said:

> Please no. It'd destroy WvW and legit whatever WvW community is left would quit because of this.

 

why would it though? lets have a discussion maybe? cause teh current system certinaly is not brining in new wvwers at all

[xZombieTaco.5809]

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

 

> why would it though? lets have a discussion maybe? cause teh current system certinaly is not brining in new wvwers at all

 

The issue with WvW is the hardened WvW players absolutely destroy new players trying to get into the mode. It doesn't have much to do with gear, it has more to do with player skill levels, along with WvW being extremely overwhelming to new players. (Currently working on a "generalized rulebook" for new people into WvW.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"xZombieTaco.5809" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

>

> > why would it though? lets have a discussion maybe? cause teh current system certinaly is not brining in new wvwers at all

>

> The issue with WvW is the hardened WvW players absolutely destroy new players trying to get into the mode. It doesn't have much to do with gear, it has more to do with player skill levels, along with WvW being extremely overwhelming to new players. (Currently working on a "generalized rulebook" for new people into WvW.

 

theres plenty of rule books on reddit, ive asked for super balance but people say gear grind matters more so they should just go all in the current system just sucks for new players who ahve to grind for optimal stats and vetran players dont rally get anything out of it cep for getting ganked

[javier.9786]

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > You may be right, but I would still prefer wvw not to have them.

>

> I'm only bringing it up cause wvw is kinda weak right now. The one thing I used to love about wvw (the fights) really doesn't pull me anymore

 

Men, I used to love watch Barney the dinosaur when I was a child but not any more, things changes, likes changes.

 

This system let you use your PvE gear on a "PvP" way, so you must play PvE and be good at crafting, because you can't buy HoT nor PoF gear, to play WvW with the gear you want, you must earn it and it's much more interesting than making 5 clicks to suddenly change from Celestial to Harrier or Minstrel.

 

My point: WvW is more like "(PvE)vP" because you must play PvE to play a good "PvP" and I love that.

 

Btw, if you don't want to have 5 sets of gear, make a legendary gear set.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Not that I don't think things could be changed but PvP isn't much of a success either is it?

 

If you wanted to force balance, then make it so that some stats automatically get converted to something else in wvw. For example, if you come in with trailblazer, the game just treats it like it were dire.

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"javier.9786" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > > You may be right, but I would still prefer wvw not to have them.

> >

> > I'm only bringing it up cause wvw is kinda weak right now. The one thing I used to love about wvw (the fights) really doesn't pull me anymore

>

> Men, I used to love watch Barney the dinosaur when I was a child but not any more, things changes, likes changes.

>

> This system let you use your PvE gear on a "PvP" way, so you must play PvE and be good at crafting, because you can't buy HoT nor PoF gear, to play WvW with the gear you want, you must earn it and it's much more interesting than making 5 clicks to suddenly change from Celestial to Harrier or Minstrel.

>

> My point: WvW is more like "(PvE)vP" because you must play PvE to play a good "PvP" and I love that.

>

> Btw, if you don't want to have 5 sets of gear, make a legendary gear set.

 

all those points are mute to me cause i already have all the gear i need please read the other points might learn somthing

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> Not that I don't think things could be changed but PvP isn't much of a success either is it?

 

the combat is way better hene why ive said quite a bit now (sucks cause its point focused and you have the added stress of win/loss ratios and randos ect)

[javier.9786]

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> all those points are mute to me cause i already have all the gear i need please read the other points might learn somthing

 

If you mute yourself to something you'll learn nothing from it

 

saying> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> People have continuously replied to you as to why wvw needs no amulet system, with valid points, good arguments. You disregard most - if not all-different opinions, based on "i feel wvw is weak", "wvwers like geargrind" or something along this line. Despite being proven wrong.

 

[Eramonster.2718]

Not a fan of limitation. Not saying stuff in WvW is balanced right now, would prefer to have things tuned appropriately, bugs quenched, skills behaviour and triggers working as intended to prevent exploits etc. than limiting the gameplay (Anything to the direction of giving everyone a stick and sets everyone to the same health and character for balance).

 

WvW and PvP is 2 different gameplay altogether. Rules, winning conditions, gearing system etc. WvW have a bigger pool of arsenals(food, gear stats, runes and sigils etc) available. Having more options means more variables to balance *if not overlooked*.

 

Assuming OP is suggesting to convert WvW to PvP system. Unlikely things will work out as imagined because even with the limitation, PvP has its problems.

 

 

[DaFishBob.6518]

Honestly, after reading what you've had to say on this, I don't think it's a bad idea out right.

 

The problem mostly comes down to how the developers seem to make design decisions for WvW as of late: like a boulder rolling down a slope and into things. Basically they roll out decisions that will probably break something and can't really turn around to fix much afterwards. Somewhere farther back they made the decision to have PvE gear, food and utilities be usable in this mode. Getting this boulder to revisit that decision will be very difficult.

[Nimon.7840]

Even though it might be easier to balance with amulets, amulets would destroy build diversity. Especially for roaming

[Hannelore.8153]

WvW is a Realm vs Realm (RvR) game mode, and the whole purpose of this game mode, historically, is to offer an alternative to Structured PvP (sPvP), by effectively creating a PvE environment where players can battle each other, and where the outcome of battles isn't determined solely by skill and lag, but by many different factors including dynamic builds, multiple opposing sides, ambushes, mobs and NPCs, water, and more.

 

The whole point of WvW is to be kind of random and unpredictable , no matter who you go up against you never know what you are facing or what is going to happen, You can go into a fight with the perfect build, the perfect rotation, and still lose because stuff happens.

 

This is exactly why people prefer it; because its less stressful, overall, this way, than competitive style PvP, and the fact that it has been successful in games ever since Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC) shows that you aren't going to contest decades of gaming history.

 

Its supposed to be messy, that's the point.

 

You're lucky that GW2 even separates WvW from PvE at all, in most games that implement RvR you just go straight from "safe" to "battle" zones, usually separated only by zone borders of some kind (e.g a wall), and _all_ the rules of PvE apply there, whereas GW2 has stricter RvR than games usually do, limiting the use of some gears, items, gliding, mounts, and even split some skills for balance reasons.

 

If anything I feel like they've limited it too much, and taken alot of the fluff away compared to the early days.

[L A T I O N.8923]

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

> >

> > 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

> >

> > 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

> >

> >

> > 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

> >

> >

> > 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

> >

> > 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

> >

> > 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

> >

> > Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

>

> 1. Exotics are easy to get.

So are amulets, only those grinded/grinding for hours would get access?

> 2. It's balance issue.

Isn't armor part of the balance?

> 3. Fact there is more builds on metabattle for pvp, doesn't mean there is more build diversity.

Difference on zergs VS zergs is mostly a matter of a few traitlines. In pvp most of the traitlines are used/viable for different builds

> 4. Can kinda agree, but that's what u have leg armor for. If anet will give me money back for my 2 sets (and a lot more for other ppl) I maybe would consider.

> 5. Look 4.

This would currently be the only issue i see...

> 6. If u want ur own balance in wvw, than ur 2nd point is pointless. Maxing and hybryding is the reason, many ppl play wvw

Look 2,

 

> 7. Look 2.

 

My suggestion would be:

1. Let a few of the armors be accessable for players (beserk, soldiers, valk, cleric, etc.)

 

Now a soft unlock Will come on which you have access to buy more of this Gear (comparable to Heroes armor, the amulet is in a vendor)

2. Let all insignia's unlock the countable armor part (either put this as a vendor in wvw or let people consume)

3. Let people with legendary armor donate and Let Them have access to all

 

Now you can buy the amulet from vendor

4. Every armor/amulet/weapons can be adjusted in 4 status amulets on which you can switch on weaponset(wvw gameplay fieldplacement is equal important but the field is a lot bigger, kiting is more important).

5. You buy the amulet for wvw scrim tickets, after purchasing one you have Them at All Times (legendary Will jump through this again, only for the type of armour you unlock)

The amulet is Hereby always unlocked accountbound for the specific armor class

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

As I am sure others have stated (too much to read this early in the AM), the general consensus for this has been, and will be a hard No. This would break build diversity due to foods, consumables and the ability to mix/match stat types (not everyone likes using pure zerk, or pure marauder...some like to mix it up and do something like Marauder/Valk and have a piece of Knights in there somewhere for example). Ammy system is what makes PvP unique so it should stay there.

 

The only people that this would truly benefit are those that PvP. Why don't they change the PvP system to not use ammy's, but use the players statted gear?

 

 

[Eleazar.9478]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> As I am sure others have stated (too much to read this early in the AM), the general consensus for this has been, and will be a hard No. This would break build diversity due to foods, consumables and the ability to mix/match stat types (not everyone likes using pure zerk, or pure marauder...some like to mix it up and do something like Marauder/Valk and have a piece of Knights in there somewhere for example). Ammy system is what makes PvP unique so it should stay there.

>

> The only people that this would truly benefit are those that PvP. Why don't they change the PvP system to not use ammy's, but use the players statted gear?

>

>

 

What I'm saying is the mix/match dosnt really do much I terms of gameplay, all it does currently is push extreme builds over the top. PvP is not special due to an amulet system it's special due to it's game mode.

 

And as I've stated pvp has double the viable builds than wvw. Zergs take 4 classes and roamers just use some PvP builds (generally tanky ones unless you run 1shot) how could they possibly balance wvw without reigning in the stats first?

 

And I think hyrbid defense stats really hurt the game mode you should be strong against condition or power and have real downsides and weakness when a good sign of balance is when there's lots of build diversity go look at metabattle PvP vs wvw and be blown away by the amount of builds vs wvw. I've tried alot off good tier ones and have found them to be very effective PvP balance other than boon beast and morage is actually in a good place for the quality of fights. I think alot of that has to do with extreme stats are towned down