WvW needs an amlet system!

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · February 25, 2019

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > As I am sure others have stated (too much to read this early in the AM), the general consensus for this has been, and will be a hard No. This would break build diversity due to foods, consumables and the ability to mix/match stat types (not everyone likes using pure zerk, or pure marauder...some like to mix it up and do something like Marauder/Valk and have a piece of Knights in there somewhere for example). Ammy system is what makes PvP unique so it should stay there.

> >

> > The only people that this would truly benefit are those that PvP. Why don't they change the PvP system to not use ammy's, but use the players statted gear?

> >

>

> What I'm saying is the mix/match dosnt really do much I terms of gameplay, all it does currently is push extreme builds over the top. PvP is not special due to an amulet system it's special due to it's game mode.

>

> And as I've stated pvp has double the viable builds than wvw. Zergs take 4 classes and roamers just use some PvP builds (generally tanky ones unless you run 1shot) how could they possibly balance wvw without reigning in the stats first?

>

> And I think hyrbid defense stats really hurt the game mode you should be strong against condition or power and have real downsides and weakness when a good sign of balance is when there's lots of build diversity go look at metabattle PvP vs wvw and be blown away by the amount of builds vs wvw. I've tried alot off good tier ones and have found them to be very effective PvP balance other than boon beast and morage is actually in a good place for the quality of fights. I think alot of that has to do with extreme stats are towned down

>

More often than not...due to the mix/match, META isn't as important in WvW as it is in PvP. When you say "viable builds", WvW has more due to this less importance in META so you see more off meta builds than meta. I always run off meta builds in WvW...builds you cant make happen in PvP so I have no idea where you got your "PvP has double the builds" from due to how its restrictive. As a thoerycrafter for many years in GW2, I can back this up with experience. You can make more builds that can work for WvW than PvP due to mixing/matching stats.

TheQuickFox.3826 · February 25, 2019

I would dislike this. The current PvE and WvW gear system give so much room for creativity and fine tuning. It is a pity they remove this for sPvP.

Swagger.1459 · February 25, 2019

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

>

> 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

>

> 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

>

> 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

>

> 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

>

> 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

>

> 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

>

> Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

1. That's false... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item#Rarity Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare, Exotic, Ascended and Legendary

2. That's false... You can get 1 shot in spvp. You also have tanks in spvp too. Balance issue are beyond gear.

3. That's false... There are way more build options in wvw, and way more gear choices and combos that contribute to more build diversity.

4. Not sure what "fights at night" have anything to do with this topic. Not like the rules change at particular times of day or night.

5. That's false... There is less experimentation in spvp due to the amulet system. The more gear options you have the more possible build players can use.

6. That's the beauty of the current gear system in wvw, and contributes to more build diversity as mentioned in #3 and #5.

7. See #2.

"it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy"... You conveniently leave out Exotic and Ascended gear in that statement... Cost of leveling crafting professions to either 400 or 500. Costs of materials to create exotics, ascended, legendary items. Game currencies to purchase exotic and ascended gears. Hours logged in playing working toward gear... Multiply these by 6 years per player and yeah...

And your previous answer to the economic implications where "who cares" when asked. Sorry, that's not the way the devs handle anything around here, and that's not an answer the devs would accept or use on the player base.

Bulk of complaints about wvw and professions have nothing to do with gear, so changing to the spvp amulet system would not address issues. It would not "save" wvw as you are dreaming. It would further alienate players from this mode, kill build diversity more and miff off every player who spent thousands and thousands of hours, and game resources, making or obtaining gear...

You're not getting the amulet system in wvw. Sorry

And...

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> Accessibility to start… https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_level_80_exotic_armor

>

> Work on leveling crafting... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting to make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment

>

> Play wvw and buy Ascended gear... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_Supervisor

>

> …Anet has created a gear system that's easier to obtain max level gear. There are many convenient processes to crafting. Gear you make isn't devalued and you can even stat swap Ascended weapons and armor...and certain newer trinkets.

>

>

> I'm generally not a fan saying it like this, but those that want the amulet system need to not be lazy.... Everyone can easily start wvw with cheap exotics, or play forever in exotics. Other gears can be made or obtained over time, and the dev WANT players playing over time... Go participate in STRUCTURED pvp if you want a structured amulet gear system and to fight over small circles in 5v5s. WvW is modeled after "open world" DAoC Realm vs Realm gameplay, and the current gear system will not change because some of you do not want to put in the time to gear up...

>

> This request from some of you isn't about "balance", it's about not wanting to put in the effort to making gears. And it's kinda silly that some of you are trying to impose a pvp amulet system on wvw and claiming "balance", when pvp is far from balanced... even with the amulet system. The amulet system was a logical design choice for spvp because Anet wanted to break into the e-sports scene... https://www.eslgaming.com/, but this is wvw we are talking about here.

>

> You peeps are not getting an amulet system inside of wvw for a plethora of reasons. Sorry.

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · February 25, 2019

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

> >

> > 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

> >

> > 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

> >

> > 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

> >

> > 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

> >

> > 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

> >

> > 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

> >

> > Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

>

> 1. That's false... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item#Rarity Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare, Exotic, Ascended and Legendary

> 2. That's false... You can get 1 shot in spvp. You also have tanks in spvp too. Balance issue are beyond gear.

> 3. That's false... There are way more build options in wvw, and way more gear choices and combos that contribute to more build diversity.

> 4. Not sure what "fights at night" have anything to do with this topic. Not like the rules change at particular times of day or night.

> 5. That's false... There is less experimentation in spvp due to the amulet system. The more gear options you have the more possible build players can use.

> 6. That's the beauty of the current gear system in wvw, and contributes to more build diversity as mentioned in #3 and #5.

> 7. See #2.

>

> "it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy"... You conveniently leave out Exotic and Ascended gear in that statement... Cost of leveling crafting professions to either 400 or 500. Costs of materials to create exotics, ascended, legendary items. Game currencies to purchase exotic and ascended gears. Hours logged in playing working toward gear... Multiply these by 6 years per player and yeah...

>

> And your previous answer to the economic implications where "who cares" when asked. Sorry, that's not the way the devs handle anything around here, and that's not an answer the devs would accept or use on the player base.

>

> Bulk of complaints about wvw and professions have nothing to do with gear, so changing to the spvp amulet system would not address issues. It would not "save" wvw as you are dreaming. It would further alienate players from this mode, kill build diversity more and miff off every player who spent thousands and thousands of hours, and game resources, making or obtaining gear...

>

> You're not getting the amulet system in wvw. Sorry

>

> And...

>

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > Accessibility to start… https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_level_80_exotic_armor

> >

> > Work on leveling crafting... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting to make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment

> >

> > Play wvw and buy Ascended gear... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_Supervisor

> >

> > …Anet has created a gear system that's easier to obtain max level gear. There are many convenient processes to crafting. Gear you make isn't devalued and you can even stat swap Ascended weapons and armor...and certain newer trinkets.

> >

> >

> > I'm generally not a fan saying it like this, but those that want the amulet system need to not be lazy.... Everyone can easily start wvw with cheap exotics, or play forever in exotics. Other gears can be made or obtained over time, and the dev WANT players playing over time... Go participate in STRUCTURED pvp if you want a structured amulet gear system and to fight over small circles in 5v5s. WvW is modeled after "open world" DAoC Realm vs Realm gameplay, and the current gear system will not change because some of you do not want to put in the time to gear up...

> >

> > This request from some of you isn't about "balance", it's about not wanting to put in the effort to making gears. And it's kinda silly that some of you are trying to impose a pvp amulet system on wvw and claiming "balance", when pvp is far from balanced... even with the amulet system. The amulet system was a logical design choice for spvp because Anet wanted to break into the e-sports scene... https://www.eslgaming.com/, but this is wvw we are talking about here.

> >

> > You peeps are not getting an amulet system inside of wvw for a plethora of reasons. Sorry.

>

I feel as if OP is still going to question and/or try to disprove your answers somehow with not as valid results. They have a 2nd thread that has this topic incorporated in it and was also given many valid reasons that ammy system isnt great and disproved them on some occasions.

Voltekka.2375 · February 25, 2019

Time and again, people have - with arguments, valid arguments- proved their point, OP. A discussion that just goes on for discussion sake, is pointless. If you cannot convince fellow players as to why the system should change, rest assured you will have zero luck with the devs of the game. Your arguments dont only fall short, you also use metabattle as an example. I have seen people in wvw who run builds they wont share/rarely share among guildies, roaming and zerging, viable builds, builds that may never see the light of day with stat-and runecombos personalized to each player's style. You mean to tell us that PvP is more diverse, when stats are really fixed? That is a big no. On the contrary, you mean to tone things down. Mirage has a class issue, not a stats issue. Holo as well. Soulbeast too. Each class has one - or multiple- issues that make it OP in the hands of players. If pvp were balanced, why do people cry for nerfs across classes?

That being said, as one of my previous comments was deleted (cause it apparently was a reply to a banned comment), I cannot stress enough that you do not even for ONE second address why ANET should devote resources to hugely overhauling stats, trinkets, weapons, traits, runes, armors, the economic implications, the playerbase that invested time AND resources to make legendary armors for the QoL they provide exactly BECAUSE of that build and stat diversity in wvw. Unless you want to keep a pointless discussion running, for own reasons.

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > > 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

> > >

> > > 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

> > >

> > > 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

> > >

> > > 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

> > >

> > > 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

> > >

> > > 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

> > >

> > > 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

> > >

> > > Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

> >

> > 1. That's false... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item#Rarity Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare, Exotic, Ascended and Legendary

> > 2. That's false... You can get 1 shot in spvp. You also have tanks in spvp too. Balance issue are beyond gear.

> > 3. That's false... There are way more build options in wvw, and way more gear choices and combos that contribute to more build diversity.

> > 4. Not sure what "fights at night" have anything to do with this topic. Not like the rules change at particular times of day or night.

> > 5. That's false... There is less experimentation in spvp due to the amulet system. The more gear options you have the more possible build players can use.

> > 6. That's the beauty of the current gear system in wvw, and contributes to more build diversity as mentioned in #3 and #5.

> > 7. See #2.

> >

> > "it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy"... You conveniently leave out Exotic and Ascended gear in that statement... Cost of leveling crafting professions to either 400 or 500. Costs of materials to create exotics, ascended, legendary items. Game currencies to purchase exotic and ascended gears. Hours logged in playing working toward gear... Multiply these by 6 years per player and yeah...

> >

> > And your previous answer to the economic implications where "who cares" when asked. Sorry, that's not the way the devs handle anything around here, and that's not an answer the devs would accept or use on the player base.

> >

> > Bulk of complaints about wvw and professions have nothing to do with gear, so changing to the spvp amulet system would not address issues. It would not "save" wvw as you are dreaming. It would further alienate players from this mode, kill build diversity more and miff off every player who spent thousands and thousands of hours, and game resources, making or obtaining gear...

> >

> > You're not getting the amulet system in wvw. Sorry

> >

> > And...

> >

> > > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > Accessibility to start… https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_level_80_exotic_armor

> > >

> > > Work on leveling crafting... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting to make https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment

> > >

> > > Play wvw and buy Ascended gear... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_Supervisor

> > >

> > > …Anet has created a gear system that's easier to obtain max level gear. There are many convenient processes to crafting. Gear you make isn't devalued and you can even stat swap Ascended weapons and armor...and certain newer trinkets.

> > >

> > >

> > > I'm generally not a fan saying it like this, but those that want the amulet system need to not be lazy.... Everyone can easily start wvw with cheap exotics, or play forever in exotics. Other gears can be made or obtained over time, and the dev WANT players playing over time... Go participate in STRUCTURED pvp if you want a structured amulet gear system and to fight over small circles in 5v5s. WvW is modeled after "open world" DAoC Realm vs Realm gameplay, and the current gear system will not change because some of you do not want to put in the time to gear up...

> > >

> > > This request from some of you isn't about "balance", it's about not wanting to put in the effort to making gears. And it's kinda silly that some of you are trying to impose a pvp amulet system on wvw and claiming "balance", when pvp is far from balanced... even with the amulet system. The amulet system was a logical design choice for spvp because Anet wanted to break into the e-sports scene... https://www.eslgaming.com/, but this is wvw we are talking about here.

> > >

> > > You peeps are not getting an amulet system inside of wvw for a plethora of reasons. Sorry.

> >

>

> I feel as if OP is still going to question and/or try to disprove your answers somehow with not as valid results. They have a 2nd thread that has this topic incorporated in it and was also given many valid reasons that ammy system isnt great and disproved them on some occasions.

Uh it's a discussion on a thread I opened up. That means I discuss things why is everyone so against just talking about things, if you don't comment the thread gets burried FYI

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

> @"Voltekka.2375"

Look man it's a forum you don't have to agree with me, if you don't want me to go back and forth with you just don't comment and the thread will be burried. But I'm going to talk and debate this is what forums are for not for convincing devs not convincing players, it's for discussion and feedback. Clearly wvw has been suffering for a long time imo it's the half balanced stats and half unbalanced that is really hurting the game mode. It's super grind for new players and flattens out for old players and really just pushes some stuff over the top. But hey I guess we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for the conversation

Rabbi Rick.3194 · February 25, 2019

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > Simply put, no way period! As a wvw old timer that would end my wvw days immediately and most likely send me off to find some other more configurable game with a similar mode.

> >

> > Amulets can stay in pvp.

>

> I have to ask why is that? What builds wouldn't work with a amulet system? And I've been around since release with only a year break due to being overseas. As power creep and stronger stats came I've only seen fights degrade and communities leave

>

> Gone are havoc and fight guild's

>

> Gone are the majority of roamers who would hang in os or bls on off hours for dueling, small gvgs and smack talking

>

> Laid to waste most server communities save for the banwagon giant servers

1. Lots of hybrid builds would not be available in an amulet system.

2. I don't know where you play, but we still have quite a few havoc groups on our server

3. Dueling and small gvg aren't quite gone, but they are not as present as before because that stuff DOESN'T BELONG in WVW. You want to duel or GvG, go to the OS arena or the larger area in EotM. Don't take up map space on maps that are (or can be at any second) queued to take or defend WvW objectives. Most duelers and GvG players have been chased out. I know I siege them every chance I get.

4. I agree with you on the "community," though quite a few have stuck it out (including the server that I've been on since pre-launch). The best thing they could do right now until the alliance system is setup (if that ever happens), is to stop server linking and let us have our own identities back. This constant switching of "allies" to "enemies" every 8 weeks is horrible and causes a lot of issues in the various communication programs.

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

1> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > 1) GW2 IS not a gear power fantasy, its always been a fashion wars anti grind system, with an amulet system new or pve players could quickly get into the mode and be efficient quickly due to their nature exotics often times are easier just getting ascended first and then transferring stats this probably means a daunting grind for any player looking to get into wvw (at least a week for more hard core players who haven't wvw or are on the newer scale)

> >

> > 2) stats are way out of wack in wvw currently you can break the dps numbers with any dps class and 1 shot people before they can react or you face un-killable builds, a stat system could reign the outliers and might allow much more enjoyable fights small and big scale

> >

> > 3)but stats and build diversity, surprisingly enough there's actually more build diversity in pvp (if the surprisingly well maintained metabattle is to go off of, which as 2x more builds than wvw)

> >

> > 4) fights during the night would actually be way more unpredictable with a amulet system if a commander found his comp was weak he/she could then quickly regear the squad for comps and such

> >

> > 5) this would encourage experimentation, since people and groups could switch on the fly they could then be free to try new combos and such

> >

> > 6) but min maxing and hybrid.... who says wvw would use the pvp stats and runes wvw could then have its OWN balance this could give the wvw and skills team some ideas to put in maybe even push the mode without breaking others (for example sigil of annulment in pvp is beautiful but its a pvp only sigil)

> >

> > 7) you cant ask for wvw to be balanced if the stats are out wack

> >

> > Cons: id imagine it would be very controversial to all of us who have legy armor, weapons and trinkets like crazy, (yes I said us as I have lots too) but I wouldn't be propzing this if the game mode was healthy, imo pvp has better fights just is way less fun since it revolves around point rotation and can be very demoralizing when due to win/loss ect.

>

> 1. That's false... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item#Rarity Basic, Fine, Masterwork, Rare, Exotic, Ascended and Legendary

Once you reach it the the game plateaus so you have this giant grind to just be equal? Why not just remove the hump for a mode where you compete with other players

> 2. That's false... You can get 1 shot in spvp. You also have tanks in spvp too. Balance issue are beyond gear.

Due to stat restrictions you do way less damage i find it's about half maybe a little less so in order to down a demolisher or marder ect you often need more than one burst 10k won't cut it, when playing glassy this is dangerous because a dueling build then wise up proceed to pummel you while in wvw you can get like 20-30 k hits easy. This also works the same with heals in wvw you can pull 9-10k heals permanent boons

> 3. That's false... There are way more build options in wvw, and way more gear choices and combos that contribute to more build diversity.

Once again wvw could and should have it's own stat system so all those builds would still be there just less extreme

> 4. Not sure what "fights at night" have anything to do with this topic. Not like the rules change at particular times of day or night.

I was talking primetime stuff please read the whole point (commanders could quikcly try tactics instead of waiting for people to regear)

> 5. That's false... There is less experimentation in spvp due to the amulet system. The more gear options you have the more possible build players can use.

Read point 3 also the focus on control points limits what you can do not the amulet system

> 6. That's the beauty of the current gear system in wvw, and contributes to more build diversity as mentioned in #3 and #5.

I don't see how

Voltekka.2375 · February 25, 2019

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375"

>

> Look man it's a forum you don't have to agree with me, if you don't want me to go back and forth with you just don't comment and the thread will be burried. But I'm going to talk and debate this is what forums are for not for convincing devs not convincing players, it's for discussion and feedback. Clearly wvw has been suffering for a long time imo it's the half balanced stats and half unbalanced that is really hurting the game mode. It's super grind for new players and flattens out for old players and really just pushes some stuff over the top. But hey I guess we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for the conversation

>

Again, you explain nothing. Just vague stuff like 'wvw has half balanced stats'. And no. It is not a grind for "New people" anymore than pve is for the same "New people". Everyone can buy armors from this dude here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Master

Same stats armor can be bought from the tp for a low cost (exotics). New players do not need to be meta. Much like in pve, a meta build for a new player is a horrible suggestion. When countered with facts, you just reply with opinion. Despite being proven wrong, many times. Debating is good, but pushing an agenda is something else entirely.

Say, is pvp balanced, with its amulets?

Lala.8752 · February 25, 2019

amulet balance for wvw is the best thing they can do(so without cancer stat like minstrel, traiblazzer and other shit full boon duration)

Swagger.1459 · February 25, 2019

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375"

>

> Look man it's a forum you don't have to agree with me, if you don't want me to go back and forth with you just don't comment and the thread will be burried. But I'm going to talk and debate this is what forums are for not for convincing devs not convincing players, it's for discussion and feedback. Clearly wvw has been suffering for a long time imo it's the half balanced stats and half unbalanced that is really hurting the game mode. It's super grind for new players and flattens out for old players and really just pushes some stuff over the top. But hey I guess we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for the conversation

>

Ultimately you want the devs to change wvw to an amulet system. It’s your job to come up with compelling arguments to convince the devs that it’s in the best interest of the game to make a change. So far, though, you have not come up with any solid reasons in this thread, or the previous thread, for the devs to make such a change.

We can do this all day, but the amulet idea isn’t coming to wvw for all the logical reasons provided by poster... Sorry.

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375"

> >

> > Look man it's a forum you don't have to agree with me, if you don't want me to go back and forth with you just don't comment and the thread will be burried. But I'm going to talk and debate this is what forums are for not for convincing devs not convincing players, it's for discussion and feedback. Clearly wvw has been suffering for a long time imo it's the half balanced stats and half unbalanced that is really hurting the game mode. It's super grind for new players and flattens out for old players and really just pushes some stuff over the top. But hey I guess we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for the conversation

> >

>

> Again, you explain nothing. Just vague stuff like 'wvw has half balanced stats'. And no. It is not a grind for "New people" anymore than pve is for the same "New people". Everyone can buy armors from this dude here https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Master

> Same stats armor can be bought from the tp for a low cost (exotics). New players do not need to be meta. Much like in pve, a meta build for a new player is a horrible suggestion. When countered with facts, you just reply with opinion. Despite being proven wrong, many times. Debating is good, but pushing an agenda is something else entirely.

> Say, is pvp balanced, with its amulets?

1) balanced stats (could've clarified that better to be fari) so what I meant was for a newer player which wvw is lacking, there's a big hill to climb thus this creats an unbalanced environment however once you reach that Hill gear becomes equal, thus the argument but I grinded for it looses water because all it's there for is just a Hill it's a competive game mode make it fully balanced or not at all and revel in the gear power (part of this comes from me seeing much more popular other mmos are with realm vs realm)

2)your not proving me wrong you literally are just stating opinions like me thus that point is mute, pushing a agenda? What ? This ain't cnn/fox news lol

3) actually outside of two builds that are over performing it is, I'm currently enjoying core ranger and no invuln strength warrior in plat other than the eye aids from clone spam it's alot of fun hence why I'm wondering why I enjoy PvP more than wvw now when the reverse was true for the longest time

4) I'm not saying stats will fix the whole games balance lol I'm saying reigning them in would help it

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

> @"Rabbi Rick.3194" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > > Simply put, no way period! As a wvw old timer that would end my wvw days immediately and most likely send me off to find some other more configurable game with a similar mode.

> > >

> > > Amulets can stay in pvp.

> >

> > I have to ask why is that? What builds wouldn't work with a amulet system? And I've been around since release with only a year break due to being overseas. As power creep and stronger stats came I've only seen fights degrade and communities leave

> >

> > Gone are havoc and fight guild's

> >

> > Gone are the majority of roamers who would hang in os or bls on off hours for dueling, small gvgs and smack talking

> >

> > Laid to waste most server communities save for the banwagon giant servers

>

> 1. Lots of hybrid builds would not be available in an amulet system.

Here's the thing what if those stat combos were available in an amulet system? PvP doesn't have certain stat sets because it slows the game mode down (no toughness/healing power which would be insane not to have in wvw)

> 2. I don't know where you play, but we still have quite a few havoc groups on our server

I am on FC, but I've linked with every server on the moon and my friends list which spanded multi severs a damn ghost town. I ask guys on my different discord servers hey why don't you come back they all say wvw sucks now man. Hence I'm just talking about something so extreme (as I stated I've find PvP to be alot better just boring due to point rotation focus)

> 3. Dueling and small gvg aren't quite gone, but they are not as present as before because that stuff DOESN'T BELONG in WVW. You want to duel or GvG, go to the OS arena or the larger area in EotM. Don't take up map space on maps that are (or can be at any second) queued to take or defend WvW objectives. Most duelers and GvG players have been chased out. I know I siege them every chance I get.

I don't get the hate man those guys used to be the guys you wanted around hey so and so can you mess with this group or a fight guild would help a tag envelope a bigger zerg. I made so many friends across servers talking build craft, improtu gvgs I understand if they're taking up space and a zerg steam rolls them fine. But usually guys should play on off hours after the tags logged. Really used to make me feel like a community, lol my buddy on an enemy sever as a sign of friendship would steam roll me when I was solo. We had a don't gank each other it was alot fun

> 4. I agree with you on the "community," though quite a few have stuck it out (including the server that I've been on since pre-launch). The best thing they could do right now until the alliance system is setup (if that ever happens), is to stop server linking and let us have our own identities back. This constant switching of "allies" to "enemies" every 8 weeks is horrible and causes a lot of issues in the various communication programs.

Truth bro. I just enjoy talking about the game.

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375"

> >

> > Look man it's a forum you don't have to agree with me, if you don't want me to go back and forth with you just don't comment and the thread will be burried. But I'm going to talk and debate this is what forums are for not for convincing devs not convincing players, it's for discussion and feedback. Clearly wvw has been suffering for a long time imo it's the half balanced stats and half unbalanced that is really hurting the game mode. It's super grind for new players and flattens out for old players and really just pushes some stuff over the top. But hey I guess we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for the conversation

> >

>

> Ultimately you want the devs to change wvw to an amulet system. It’s your job to come up with compelling arguments to convince the devs that it’s in the best interest of the game to make a change. So far, though, you have not come up with any solid reasons in this thread, or the previous thread, for the devs to make such a change.

>

> We can do this all day, but the amulet idea isn’t coming to wvw for all the logical reasons provided by poster... Sorry.

I did I gave you plenty you just don't accept them and it's good that you do it's a discussion forum sorry

KryTiKaL.3125 · February 25, 2019

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > Simply put, no way period! As a wvw old timer that would end my wvw days immediately and most likely send me off to find some other more configurable game with a similar mode.

> >

> > Amulets can stay in pvp.

>

> I have to ask why is that? What builds wouldn't work with a amulet system? And I've been around since release with only a year break due to being overseas. As power creep and stronger stats came I've only seen fights degrade and communities leave

>

> Gone are havoc and fight guild's

>

> Gone are the majority of roamers who would hang in os or bls on off hours for dueling, small gvgs and smack talking

>

> Laid to waste most server communities save for the banwagon giant servers

So you say due to power creep and stronger stats that the quality of the PvP has degraded over time in WvW? Similar can be said for sPvP (it is more AoE creeped than power creeped though), thats not a much healthier PvP environment either so an amulet system being implemented into WvW would *not* address these power creep issues nor any other balance issues.

What *would* address power creep issues is if Anet made an effort to tone down the stat bloating that will inevitably only get worse. Either needing to reduce the actual stat increases on gear (i.e reduce the amount of power on Berserker gear, reduce the amount of condition damage on Trailblazer or Dire gear) *or* look at reducing/adjusting the damage scaling on abilities and traits across the board. Both paths would be time consuming and potentially complicated but they would be actual steps toward making an adjustment toward a healthier state of PvP.

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

>

> So you say due to power creep and stronger stats that the quality of the PvP has degraded over time in WvW? Similar can be said for sPvP (it is more AoE creeped than power creeped though), thats not a much healthier PvP environment either so an amulet system being implemented into WvW would *not* address these power creep issues nor any other balance issues.

? no im saying wvw has degraded (small in part due to the high amount of stats) pvp is fine its just boring cause point rotation gets boring after 6 years

>

> What *would* address power creep issues is if Anet made an effort to tone down the stat bloating that will inevitably only get worse. Either needing to reduce the actual stat increases on gear (i.e reduce the amount of power on Berserker gear, reduce the amount of condition damage on Trailblazer or Dire gear) *or* look at reducing/adjusting the damage scaling on abilities and traits across the board. Both paths would be time consuming and potentially complicated but they would be actual steps toward making an adjustment toward a healthier state of PvP.

>

I would totally be fine with that, 100% behind that change i brought up the amulet system too becuase it would adress this and level the playing feild for newer players (yes i have full legy gear tons of asended gear i just think the hill people have to clib just to be on par in terms of builds is dumb and probably drives away newer players)

sebb.3560 · February 25, 2019

we don't need a revamp of a huge system right now...not with that giant cat invading wvw and bringing unforseen consequences with it

Eleazar.9478 · February 25, 2019

> @"sebb.3560" said:

> we don't need a revamp of a huge system right now...not with that giant cat invading wvw and bringing unforseen consequences with it

honestly i doubt it will change much, we need new players anyways and should get a fat population bump for everyone who wants the cat. as for a huge revamp of the system even if they did they would probably wait till after the allience system so no worries my friend i just enjoy talking about it on a forum

joneirikb.7506 · February 26, 2019

Just something that irks me:

When people say that the PVE/WVW stat system gives more creativity/choices etc.

(ascended berserker used as example)

weapon 251, 179, 179

head 64,45,45

shoulder 47,34,34

chest 141,101,101

hands 47,34,34

legs 94,67,67

feet 47,34,34

amulet 157,108,108

ring 126,85,85

earring 110,74,74

back 63,40,40

This isn't creativity, choices, or any real gameplay depth, this is "Spreadsheet the game". Complexity for complexity's sake without adding any actual gameplay depth.

The entire depth of gameplay, builds, and the combat lies in the actual action combat combined with the REST of the build options: Traits, Weapons, Sigils, Runes, Utilities/heal/Elite. To a certain degree Foods, since some of them do give new abilities/options.

As such, I find that the PVP amulet system focuses more on the actual build system, and encourage just as much creativity as the PVE system. With the added "benefit" (from a design and gameplay point of view) of adding inherent weaknesses to builds, as opposed to PVE system where you can build away your weaknesses (bad design).

---

The way the game is played these days, with multiple damage multiplications and chained invulnerable/evade skills, they could honestly remove ALL STATS from all gear, runes, food etc. And let everyone run around with 1000 base stats. We would honestly notice less difference that most would believe.

(To Be Fair, personally I am more interested in the amulet system for simple convenience, because I'm sick of swapping gear around, and runes etc. Not because I personally think it would solve much for balancing. I think balancing the actual combat would come more from nerfing all the powercreep from expansion with multiple nukes, until we have gameplay like we did before summer2015 patch.)

---

> Dueling and small gvg aren't quite gone, but they are not as present as before because that stuff DOESN'T BELONG in WVW. You want to duel or GvG, go to the OS arena or the larger area in EotM. Don't take up map space on maps that are (or can be at any second) queued to take or defend WvW objectives. Most duelers and GvG players have been chased out. I know I siege them every chance I get.

Wow, I say, lets delete everything that doesn't belong in zerg !

Let's start with Thief, Ranger, Mesmer, Engineer! Now lets delete all the elite specs we don't need in zergs, so that will leave what? Firebrand, Scourge, Weaver, Herald, and Spellbreaker? Oh and delete all stat sets we don't need in zerg, and runes, and sigils, and foods. Don't let anyone enter wvw if they don't run these stuff!

Because heavens forbid people play what they want in an open sandbox style content, where you're supposed to play as you like, how you want!

Sorry, got a bit frustrated there, just trying to point out how restrictive your comment really was/can be seen. I mean I personally can't stand zergs, that doesn't mean I think zergs have no place in WvW, and I don't try to argue for changes to break up zergs (other than in jest, I'd still love to see friendly fire + body collision as a test week!).

Strider Pj.2193 · February 26, 2019

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> Just something that irks me:

>

> When people say that the PVE/WVW stat system gives more creativity/choices etc.

>

> (ascended berserker used as example)

> weapon 251, 179, 179

> head 64,45,45

> shoulder 47,34,34

> chest 141,101,101

> hands 47,34,34

> legs 94,67,67

> feet 47,34,34

> amulet 157,108,108

> ring 126,85,85

> earring 110,74,74

> back 63,40,40

>

> This isn't creativity, choices, or any real gameplay depth, this is "Spreadsheet the game". Complexity for complexity's sake without adding any actual gameplay depth.

>

> The entire depth of gameplay, builds, and the combat lies in the actual action combat combined with the REST of the build options: Traits, Weapons, Sigils, Runes, Utilities/heal/Elite. To a certain degree Foods, since some of them do give new abilities/options.

>

> As such, I find that the PVP amulet system focuses more on the actual build system, and encourage just as much creativity as the PVE system. With the added "benefit" (from a design and gameplay point of view) of adding inherent weaknesses to builds, as opposed to PVE system where you can build away your weaknesses (bad design).

>

> ---

>

> The way the game is played these days, with multiple damage multiplications and chained invulnerable/evade skills, they could honestly remove ALL STATS from all gear, runes, food etc. And let everyone run around with 1000 base stats. We would honestly notice less difference that most would believe.

>

> (To Be Fair, personally I am more interested in the amulet system for simple convenience, because I'm sick of swapping gear around, and runes etc. Not because I personally think it would solve much for balancing. I think balancing the actual combat would come more from nerfing all the powercreep from expansion with multiple nukes, until we have gameplay like we did before summer2015 patch.)

>

I am not sure I am understanding your comment. If someone plays **just** the items in any of the stat options then yes, your comment makes sense.

Where I think there are issues though is those of us that like to try to let certain benchmarks for each area. IE 2.5k toughness, or 1.2 K healing power or a certain level of vitality while maintaining a certain level of power or toughness or condition damage, etc. (and those levels aren’t ones in particular I care about)

Having the flexibility of our current gear system allows us to do that.

I am not opposed to adding some form of amulet system that could be used by new players that gives an **exotic** level of stats from core, unless you have paid for the expansions thus allowing you to have those stat mixes as well. Would allow them to enter the mode on a more even playing field.

But don’t negate the effort, expense and flexibility that I currently worked for.

biczkowski.2961 · February 26, 2019

No. Amulet is e-sport PvP clutch for MMORPGs. WoW did the same. They introduced stat templates to their Battle Grounds. With the results of record low player participation so they reverted this change just after one expansion. Only place that has still stat templates is WoW's failed attempt at e-sport arena.

Turns out people like gear in gear-centric games like MMORPGs and if they prefer pure skill based games with proper e-sport modes they don't play MMORPGs in the first place.

Straegen.2938 · February 26, 2019

sPvP was built so that all classes can compete on an even footing in a relatively small arena. Amulets do two things, simplify the parity between classes and make it so that competitive players didn't have to gear grind.

WvW is designed as an end game option for PvE players. Take the gear out of WvW, players would riot and it would drive a substantial portion of the players out while attracting virtually nobody to replace them.

ArchonWing.9480 · February 26, 2019

The other thing is that nobody dies because they didn't have ascended armor. If you run into 20 AOEs you are going to die all the same. If you think you are dying because of that, then you are simply not very good at gw2 (not just wvw), especially since new players that buy PoF already get exotics. And yes, there are certain builds out there that can one shot you more or less, but if this is a common event, then again, this is a player issue that no amount of balance can save. And don't say "well, hurr, I am PvP expert", because this is the same thing as joining a fractal, dying in the first few seconds, and then saying this shouldn't happen because you are pro wvw player (lol, pro anything in this game....)

It also doesn't help that the difference between full ascended and full ascended with exotic armor is probably less than 10%. If you can't get ascended trinkets, well, I don't know what to say.

The perceived balance issues come down to how classes scale en masse and more of a factor of how skills compound each other. Changing into an amulet system would not remove perma-stelath, nor would rangers suddenly be welcome in zergs. My much more practical solution of normalizing certain stats when they come into wvw, would solve most problems anyways, I think.

But what I'm really saying is that this issue is much like a snowball in hell.

OscLin.7253 · February 26, 2019

No. A damage nerf across the board is more needed. Creating builds and comps is a huge part of the game for people more into the game mode. An amulet system would destroy wvw and is just an insult to all those who theorycraft builds and groupcomps. OP should maybe try and get good instead. If something kills you over and over the info is there to analyse what is killing you. Use that and adapt. If you die to better players, no shame, train more.

WvW needs an amlet system!

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