Upcoming Necro Notes

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> One major problem with the buff, chill application when yhe mob is under 50%. Gravedigger applies no chill so your one chill will be from gs5, and mb suffer of haunt. Reaper will require additional chill to reach full potential.

> Again buff is maginal.

 

Suffer! seems to be the easiest source of additional chill to ensure more reliable uptime yes? Plus it helps with getting rid of conditions.

[Anchoku.8142]

Right now, I just cannot get excited by the changes.

 

They did, however, listen to our complaints about elite utilities not feeling very elite.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > I'm extremely cold to these changes. Reaper is fine, but I don't care much for reaper. This is less than I expected over all. And I expected nothing. Desiccate went from meh to God awful. We've been through this anet. 2% life force for a utility skill even a potential of 10% is not good. This skill will lose use, serpent siphon wont see use. And than change to unending corruption is bleh. Of course, this doesn't change my WvW build much at all. And for pve I've lost a tool in desiccate which was already underpowered.

> >

> > I need a vacation.

>

>

> Wait. When I first read this, I thought it was a buff.

> "This skill now grants a bonus 2% life force for each target it strikes." Sound more like we get the 2% per target in addition to the 10% it gives right now. No?

 

Since it says bonus, that likely means on top of the 10% standard.

[Methuselah.4376]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> We have to wait how Herald of Sorrow will work. But in general Scourge is now the master of delayed impact, which is not fun to play at all.

>

> Regarding Power Reaper: ANet tries really hard to not give it too much damage. We will end with a flat 30k now - god forbit 31 or even 30,5 while everyone else is doing 35. It's ridiculous.

 

If my calculations are correct, the extra 5% on the current benchmark will put us at 30.6k and that's not factoring the, albeit laughable, buff to Nightfall.

[DragonFury.6243]

• Enfeebling Blood: Increased the amount of bleeding stacks that this skill applies from 2 to 3.

 

Does that mean Lesser Enfeeble also get the buff ??

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"felincyriac.5981" said:

> > Overall pretty meh changes, and even worse they think all necro specs are doing fine in competitive mode so RIP core necro

>

> Of course they do! The necromancer is one of the only profession that already resigned itself to not try aimelessly to be a duellist wanabe. As long as he got it's nanny the necromancer is really doing fine in competitive gamemode. And this kind of gameplay is probably what ANet see as "healthy" for the game. It's the overperforming duellists that aren't healthy for a cooperative game like guild wars 2.

 

^ kind of this

I Dueling professions should exsist but should not be over rewarded or over powered or able to perform the roles or feats that none duelist professions are suppose to be performing.

 

That said i would still like a dueling spec on necro but meh i dont want something thats at mesmer levels in terms of power no class should be at that level or that rewarded for in a pve or competitive setting.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> • Enfeebling Blood: Increased the amount of bleeding stacks that this skill applies from 2 to 3.

>

> Does that mean Lesser Enfeeble also get the buff ??

 

Probably not otherwise its not considered lesser lol

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > • Enfeebling Blood: Increased the amount of bleeding stacks that this skill applies from 2 to 3.

> >

> > Does that mean Lesser Enfeeble also get the buff ??

>

> Probably not otherwise its not considered lesser lol

 

But the Spinal Shivers and Lesser Spinal Shivers are the same other than less Damage and Cannot Critically Hit

 

and TBH i wont consider any lesser in the game as lesser but as a better and much easier way to use that skill passively

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> PvP wise, I think the change that will have the greatest impact is the change on "you are all weaklings!". It will make the already somewhat good aristocratie reaper better.

> PvE wise, I guess we can expect some chill output from druids which could make the _cold shoulder_ buff reliable. That is, if druids survive to this patch in PvE.

>

> _Herald of sorrow_ sound strange, I wonder how it will affect "while in shroud" trait effects. Does this mean that desert shroud will now have a 3 second duration on a 30 second CD? That would be plain awful...

 

I dont see people using this unless the delayed bomb effect is soooo over tuned that its utterly stupid if it hits.

 

HOWEVER knowing necro history i have feeling that this will be one of those traits that comes with massive risk to use and the reward is lesser than the risk it forces onto the necromancer.

 

I wish scourge had started with this rather than getting it now after all I did say that the whole point of shades were basic aoe and that I would have liked to se more variation to them other than just a size increase... Its weird that they are doing this now though......

 

I simply cant see people taking it over a pulsing aoe effect unless its literally insta melting levels of conditions and corrupts being applied when it hits in which case how long will it exists before being nerfed.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > • Enfeebling Blood: Increased the amount of bleeding stacks that this skill applies from 2 to 3.

> > >

> > > Does that mean Lesser Enfeeble also get the buff ??

> >

> > Probably not otherwise its not considered lesser lol

>

> But the Spinal Shivers and Lesser Spinal Shivers are the same other than less Damage and Cannot Critically Hit

>

> and TBH i wont consider any lesser in the game as lesser but as a better and much easier way to use that skill passively

 

Some skills are lesser because they dont share the same cooldowns, damage, conditions applied, etc. In one of these ways the skill is usually lesser.

Spinal shivers was one of those few skills that slipped through the cracks when anet made the whole change of labeling skills as a lesser skills. Rangers muddy terrane is another skill that is slipped through the cracks, same number of pulses, same cooldown, etc.

 

Ideally anet didn't intend for the skills to feel like they are better than the actual skill and depending on how said trait skills are triggered some times they come off that way. For necros when a foe got to 50% getting hit with a critical passive spinal shiver usually in most cases ended the fight and thats why people grew to hate it so much.

 

To be honest 1 more bleed stack on the lesser version of enfeebling prob wont make a difference in any way shape or form in competitive modes Heck even 1 more stack on the active skill probably wont matter much. The skill is still slow and clunky and thats what annoys me. They really should turn that skill into a mark. tbh

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> To be honest 1 more bleed stack on the lesser version of enfeebling prob wont make a difference in any way shape or form in competitive modes Heck even 1 more stack on the active skill probably wont matter much. The skill is still slow and clunky and thats what annoys me. They really should turn that skill into a mark. tbh

 

i love dagger offhand 4 (deathly swarm) but when i play condition necro i ll never take dagger over a torch or staff or even warhorn

that why i love the idea of buffing the dagger but not the passive and lessers

 

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > To be honest 1 more bleed stack on the lesser version of enfeebling prob wont make a difference in any way shape or form in competitive modes Heck even 1 more stack on the active skill probably wont matter much. The skill is still slow and clunky and thats what annoys me. They really should turn that skill into a mark. tbh

>

> i love dagger offhand 4 (deathly swarm) but when i play condition necro i ll never take dagger over a torch or staff or even warhorn

> that why i love the idea of buffing the dagger but not the passive and lessers

>

 

It doesn't help that it is the only necro weapon without any life force generation.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > We have to wait how Herald of Sorrow will work. But in general Scourge is now the master of delayed impact, which is not fun to play at all.

> >

> > Regarding Power Reaper: ANet tries really hard to not give it too much damage. We will end with a flat 30k now - god forbit 31 or even 30,5 while everyone else is doing 35. It's ridiculous.

>

> If my calculations are correct, the extra 5% on the current benchmark will put us at 30.6k and that's not factoring the, albeit laughable, buff to Nightfall.

 

But, we are loosing power from banners

[ZDragon.3046]

__> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > We have to wait how Herald of Sorrow will work. But in general Scourge is now the master of delayed impact, which is not fun to play at all.

> > >

> > > Regarding Power Reaper: ANet tries really hard to not give it too much damage. We will end with a flat 30k now - god forbit 31 or even 30,5 while everyone else is doing 35. It's ridiculous.

> >

> > If my calculations are correct, the extra 5% on the current benchmark will put us at 30.6k and that's not factoring the, albeit laughable, buff to Nightfall.

>

> But, we are loosing power from banners

 

because benchmarks on perfect scenarios where your mind has nothing else to focus on..... matter so much in every mode

Balance is not always going to be based around a perfect situation dps number you guys :astonished:

[felincyriac.5981]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > PvP wise, I think the change that will have the greatest impact is the change on "you are all weaklings!". It will make the already somewhat good aristocratie reaper better.

> > PvE wise, I guess we can expect some chill output from druids which could make the _cold shoulder_ buff reliable. That is, if druids survive to this patch in PvE.

> >

> > _Herald of sorrow_ sound strange, I wonder how it will affect "while in shroud" trait effects. Does this mean that desert shroud will now have a 3 second duration on a 30 second CD? That would be plain awful...

>

> I dont see people using this unless the delayed bomb effect is soooo over tuned that its utterly stupid if it hits.

>

> HOWEVER knowing necro history i have feeling that this will be one of those traits that comes with massive risk to use and the reward is lesser than the risk it forces onto the necromancer.

>

> I wish scourge had started with this rather than getting it now after all I did say that the whole point of shades were basic aoe and that I would have liked to se more variation to them other than just a size increase... Its weird that they are doing this now though......

>

> I simply cant see people taking it over a pulsing aoe effect unless its literally insta melting levels of conditions and corrupts being applied when it hits in which case how long will it exists before being nerfed.

 

could be good, if it does the accumulated damage of current DS instantly and if you are able to place the shade just before it explodes. Imagine that with 20 scourges?

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"felincyriac.5981" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > PvP wise, I think the change that will have the greatest impact is the change on "you are all weaklings!". It will make the already somewhat good aristocratie reaper better.

> > > PvE wise, I guess we can expect some chill output from druids which could make the _cold shoulder_ buff reliable. That is, if druids survive to this patch in PvE.

> > >

> > > _Herald of sorrow_ sound strange, I wonder how it will affect "while in shroud" trait effects. Does this mean that desert shroud will now have a 3 second duration on a 30 second CD? That would be plain awful...

> >

> > I dont see people using this unless the delayed bomb effect is soooo over tuned that its utterly stupid if it hits.

> >

> > HOWEVER knowing necro history i have feeling that this will be one of those traits that comes with massive risk to use and the reward is lesser than the risk it forces onto the necromancer.

> >

> > I wish scourge had started with this rather than getting it now after all I did say that the whole point of shades were basic aoe and that I would have liked to se more variation to them other than just a size increase... Its weird that they are doing this now though......

> >

> > I simply cant see people taking it over a pulsing aoe effect unless its literally insta melting levels of conditions and corrupts being applied when it hits in which case how long will it exists before being nerfed.

>

> could be good, if it does the accumulated damage of current DS instantly and if you are able to place the shade just before it explodes. Imagine that with 20 scourges?

 

I hope it cuts desert shroud state time to 3s so that you can gain the barrier it grants and get the heal from LfD sooner.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > We have to wait how Herald of Sorrow will work. But in general Scourge is now the master of delayed impact, which is not fun to play at all.

> > >

> > > Regarding Power Reaper: ANet tries really hard to not give it too much damage. We will end with a flat 30k now - god forbit 31 or even 30,5 while everyone else is doing 35. It's ridiculous.

> >

> > If my calculations are correct, the extra 5% on the current benchmark will put us at 30.6k and that's not factoring the, albeit laughable, buff to Nightfall.

>

> But, we are loosing power from banners

 

So does everyone else though.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > • Enfeebling Blood: Increased the amount of bleeding stacks that this skill applies from 2 to 3.

> > > >

> > > > Does that mean Lesser Enfeeble also get the buff ??

> > >

> > > Probably not otherwise its not considered lesser lol

> >

> > But the Spinal Shivers and Lesser Spinal Shivers are the same other than less Damage and Cannot Critically Hit

> >

> > and TBH i wont consider any lesser in the game as lesser but as a better and much easier way to use that skill passively

>

> Some skills are lesser because they dont share the same cooldowns, damage, conditions applied, etc. In one of these ways the skill is usually lesser.

Historically the first time that lesser thing came up when they buffed the skill but left the trait alone to not overbuff the class. So besides the critical removal for traits (which was something new) the lesser xyz is just the state the skill had a few years ago.

 

Sometimes they just mess up and accidently buff traits too, but that's rare.

 

> To be honest 1 more bleed stack on the lesser version of enfeebling prob wont make a difference in any way shape or form in competitive modes Heck even 1 more stack on the active skill probably wont matter much. The skill is still slow and clunky and thats what annoys me. They really should turn that skill into a mark. tbh

Yes. The biggest drawback of the skill is the huge windup (cast time and delay) for a relatively low result (one corrupt and a bit of condi stuff). That one bleed won't change anything. The skill remains trash. Maybe one day we will have a viable D/D build for necro, that would be cool. Dual Incinerator just looks awesome.

 

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> I was more excited after reading the nerf to Deadeye's Silent Scope.

> That was the best change this patch.

For me too. Even before I read the necro patchnotes I looked into deadeye, soulbeast and mesmer changes.

 

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > We have to wait how Herald of Sorrow will work. But in general Scourge is now the master of delayed impact, which is not fun to play at all.

> > >

> > > Regarding Power Reaper: ANet tries really hard to not give it too much damage. We will end with a flat 30k now - god forbit 31 or even 30,5 while everyone else is doing 35. It's ridiculous.

> >

> > If my calculations are correct, the extra 5% on the current benchmark will put us at 30.6k and that's not factoring the, albeit laughable, buff to Nightfall.

>

> But, we are loosing power from banners

Exactly! I predict that a perfect Power Reaper rotation will end up at 30,0xx DPS. :p

[felincyriac.5981]

Man the "...all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes." is pretty concerning tbh, will we just be seeing dmg% inc to irrelevant skills and tooltip fixes from now on?

[Obtena.7952]

Everything about this patch is a good direction. The specific numbers, too hard to comment on until we can play it. I can't see Reaper pushing much more DPS. 5% on Cold shoulder sounds like lots, but you need 100% uptime on chill to get it. Unless you load up on chill apps, camping AA on GS to get that is actually a DPS drop.

 

Also confirms as I suspected, one of Anet's metric for class health is is 'volume' of class played in a game mode; not how often people kick necro's from teams. Take note PVE raiders.

 

I'm still scratching my head why we have so few elite skills.

[Kumouta.4985]

i really hope herald of sorrow turns out to be a strong nuke.

[Anchoku.8142]

When being bursted out of Harbinger Shroud early or CC'd, will it still proc or is the Necro out of luck?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> When being bursted out of Harbinger Shroud early or CC'd, will it still proc or is the Necro out of luck?

 

I doubt Harbinger Shroud will work any differently than normal Desert Shroud in that regard. The barrier might get depleted, but no amount of damage or CC can actually end it early (aside from a full kill).

 

The bigger question; does the Scourge still get the barrier immedietly, or is it also on a 3 second delay? If it's the later, it's pretty useless in competitive modes.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

"Obtena.7952" said:

 

> Also confirms as I suspected, one of Anet's metric for class health is is 'volume' of class played in a game mode; not how often people kick necro's from teams. Take note PVE raiders.

Competive modes means spvp and wvw, not pve raiding, which is why damage was increased in pve mostly, which they also said. Your selective reading is very apparent.

On a side note, everyones damage was reduced, except solo reaper, which was buffed. Group buffs got major nerfs, banners and mb spirits, depends on how their mechanics really work in the wild. Overall reaper loses the least from these because they over cap crit chance already, many other classes will have to chabge gear to get back to 100%.

Curious if hydromancy will take the impact sigil slot, get extra chill coverage.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> "Obtena.7952" said:

>

> > Also confirms as I suspected, one of Anet's metric for class health is is 'volume' of class played in a game mode; not how often people kick necro's from teams. Take note PVE raiders.

> Competive modes means spvp and wvw, not pve raiding, which is why damage was increased in pve mostly, which they also said. Your selective reading is very apparent.

> On a side note, everyones damage was reduced, except solo reaper, which was buffed. Group buffs got major nerfs, banners and mb spirits, depends on how their mechanics really work in the wild. Overall reaper loses the least from these because they over cap crit chance already, many other classes will have to chabge gear to get back to 100%.

> Curious if hydromancy will take the impact sigil slot, get extra chill coverage.

>

 

I'm certain Anet is also measuring volume of class played in PVP/WVW to monitor class health as well ... why wouldn't they? What I said is applicable to every game mode. I targetted PVE raiders because they lean on that 'times kicked' metric which is completely irrelevant.