Justine.6351 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"idolin.2831" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > For wanting to bolster power builds in PVE, the change to Targeted Destruction is really strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A buff to pve and a nerf to wvw/pvp. The change was legit. > > > > I don't get that ... how was scaling this trait a buff to PVE? Sure, for massive zerg ... where it's not that big a deal, it's a small buff. For everything else, you **maybe** break even. > > I believe he's referring to instanced PvE, where 25 stacks of vulnerabilities can be maintained more easily. As for open world PvE that's just a minor nerf and the damage decrease doesn't make much of a difference. Yep ty. And for wvw it will trim back on rev damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"idolin.2831" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > For wanting to bolster power builds in PVE, the change to Targeted Destruction is really strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A buff to pve and a nerf to wvw/pvp. The change was legit. > > > > I don't get that ... how was scaling this trait a buff to PVE? Sure, for massive zerg ... where it's not that big a deal, it's a small buff. For everything else, you **maybe** break even. > > I believe he's referring to instanced PvE, where 25 stacks of vulnerabilities can be maintained more easily. As for open world PvE that's just a minor nerf and the damage decrease doesn't make much of a difference. It's a pretty big nerf IMO. The only places that we'll see any change is a 2.5% increase in premade instanced content, and overworld content that is specifically being zerged down. Everywhere else we'll see a nearly 10% nerf in damage: PUG Fractals PUG Dungeons Small scale Overworld Solo Overworld PVP WvW I don't know about you, but when I'm "solo roaming" in the overworld, I'm fighting against champion level mobs by myself. The only vulnerability the enemy gets is when I fill the void in my rotation with auto attacks, so I'm losing 10% of my damage now. All because Anet can't just give us a straight buff. This is a nerf masquerading as a buff. The more I think about it, the more I've come to hate this new balance update. It hurts revs without giving us anything in return. The only thing that can be considered a buff is the changes to Song of the Mists, which is a trait that I will never take because it is still far inferior to the other two grandmasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @"idolin.2831" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > For wanting to bolster power builds in PVE, the change to Targeted Destruction is really strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A buff to pve and a nerf to wvw/pvp. The change was legit. > > > > > > I don't get that ... how was scaling this trait a buff to PVE? Sure, for massive zerg ... where it's not that big a deal, it's a small buff. For everything else, you **maybe** break even. > > > > I believe he's referring to instanced PvE, where 25 stacks of vulnerabilities can be maintained more easily. As for open world PvE that's just a minor nerf and the damage decrease doesn't make much of a difference. > > It's a pretty big nerf IMO. The only places that we'll see any change is a 2.5% increase in premade instanced content, and overworld content that is specifically being zerged down. Everywhere else we'll see a nearly 10% nerf in damage: > > PUG Fractals > PUG Dungeons > Small scale Overworld > Solo Overworld > PVP > WvW > > I don't know about you, but when I'm "solo roaming" in the overworld, I'm fighting against champion level mobs by myself. The only vulnerability the enemy gets is when I fill the void in my rotation with auto attacks, so I'm losing 10% of my damage now. All because Anet can't just give us a straight buff. This is a nerf masquerading as a buff. > > The more I think about it, the more I've come to hate this new balance update. It hurts revs without giving us anything in return. The only thing that can be considered a buff is the changes to Song of the Mists, which is a trait that I will never take because it is still far inferior to the other two grandmasters. Exactly ... so again, I'm thinking if Anet wants to improve Power PVE on Revenant, giving it a minor nerf with the exception of a small subset of PVE is backwards. In essence, you need to run around with a posse everywhere to get this 'boost' for PVE. That's just not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrak.9506 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > You could argue that anet was trying to reduce class stacking with these changes, since they hate it... Yet they're A-OK with mirage stacking on Largos, SH, Cairn, and Matthias. Im so sick of devs being bias towards mesmer balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanok.3027 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Ertrak.9506" said: > Im so sick of devs being bias towards mesmer balance. If it makes you feel any better, my Power Chrono is going to get nerfed with this patch. Mirage I never really found to be that amazing, but power was my bae...until they decided it was "too good". Both of my favorite classes got the axe with this patch, which is Rev and Mesmer (more so Chrono since I don't care about the PvP side of things for Mirage). Like I said in the main patch thread, in regards to Rev nerfs, when will it end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"idolin.2831" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > For wanting to bolster power builds in PVE, the change to Targeted Destruction is really strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A buff to pve and a nerf to wvw/pvp. The change was legit. > > > > > > > > I don't get that ... how was scaling this trait a buff to PVE? Sure, for massive zerg ... where it's not that big a deal, it's a small buff. For everything else, you **maybe** break even. > > > > > > I believe he's referring to instanced PvE, where 25 stacks of vulnerabilities can be maintained more easily. As for open world PvE that's just a minor nerf and the damage decrease doesn't make much of a difference. > > > > It's a pretty big nerf IMO. The only places that we'll see any change is a 2.5% increase in premade instanced content, and overworld content that is specifically being zerged down. Everywhere else we'll see a nearly 10% nerf in damage: > > > > PUG Fractals > > PUG Dungeons > > Small scale Overworld > > Solo Overworld > > PVP > > WvW > > > > I don't know about you, but when I'm "solo roaming" in the overworld, I'm fighting against champion level mobs by myself. The only vulnerability the enemy gets is when I fill the void in my rotation with auto attacks, so I'm losing 10% of my damage now. All because Anet can't just give us a straight buff. This is a nerf masquerading as a buff. > > > > The more I think about it, the more I've come to hate this new balance update. It hurts revs without giving us anything in return. The only thing that can be considered a buff is the changes to Song of the Mists, which is a trait that I will never take because it is still far inferior to the other two grandmasters. > > Exactly ... so again, I'm thinking if Anet wants to improve Power PVE on Revenant, giving it a minor nerf with the exception of a small subset of PVE is backwards. In essence, you need to run around with a posse everywhere to get this 'boost' for PVE. That's just not realistic. I don't think they really care about a person's dps running solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > @"idolin.2831" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > For wanting to bolster power builds in PVE, the change to Targeted Destruction is really strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A buff to pve and a nerf to wvw/pvp. The change was legit. > > > > > > > > > > I don't get that ... how was scaling this trait a buff to PVE? Sure, for massive zerg ... where it's not that big a deal, it's a small buff. For everything else, you **maybe** break even. > > > > > > > > I believe he's referring to instanced PvE, where 25 stacks of vulnerabilities can be maintained more easily. As for open world PvE that's just a minor nerf and the damage decrease doesn't make much of a difference. > > > > > > It's a pretty big nerf IMO. The only places that we'll see any change is a 2.5% increase in premade instanced content, and overworld content that is specifically being zerged down. Everywhere else we'll see a nearly 10% nerf in damage: > > > > > > PUG Fractals > > > PUG Dungeons > > > Small scale Overworld > > > Solo Overworld > > > PVP > > > WvW > > > > > > I don't know about you, but when I'm "solo roaming" in the overworld, I'm fighting against champion level mobs by myself. The only vulnerability the enemy gets is when I fill the void in my rotation with auto attacks, so I'm losing 10% of my damage now. All because Anet can't just give us a straight buff. This is a nerf masquerading as a buff. > > > > > > The more I think about it, the more I've come to hate this new balance update. It hurts revs without giving us anything in return. The only thing that can be considered a buff is the changes to Song of the Mists, which is a trait that I will never take because it is still far inferior to the other two grandmasters. > > > > Exactly ... so again, I'm thinking if Anet wants to improve Power PVE on Revenant, giving it a minor nerf with the exception of a small subset of PVE is backwards. In essence, you need to run around with a posse everywhere to get this 'boost' for PVE. That's just not realistic. > > I don't think they really care about a person's dps running solo. Maybe, but I'm not going to pretend to guess what Anet does or doesn't care about. What I do know is that if Anet wanted to boost PVE damage, they really didn't accomplish that by doing it in a very select, specific section of PVE under a specific condition. I know when I'm being oversold the awesomeness of something ... and this case is no exception. Yes, I do agree that the bonus on TD was too much for simply hitting a mob with Vulnerability, but if Anet is going to sell me the new way as a DPS boost to PVE, period, then I'm going challenge that statement because it's not. It's actually a nerf in any situation where you can't almost max out Vuln on a mob, which likely requires a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Ertrak.9506" said: > > @"narcx.3570" said: > > > You could argue that anet was trying to reduce class stacking with these changes, since they hate it... > > Yet they're A-OK with mirage stacking on Largos, SH, Cairn, and Matthias. > > Im so sick of devs being bias towards mesmer balance. Yeah, I didn't mention Mirage cuz they're only getting changes in PvP and also I don't really have too big of a problem with their class stacking. I could be a little biased tho cuz I think Illusions is a super fun and fresh to play. But from a trying to be subjective standpoint I can say that: They dunk on Largos and Cairn hard... But Cairn's a joke, so it's whatever, nobody even cares what anybody plays there, and even if they didn't do such ridiculous damage to Largos, I think people would probably still play them there for all the dodges, so it's meh. Technically Ren and Mirage have the same benchmark on Matthias (and although Mirage brings the utility of feedback for reflects, that also drops their dps out of the 25k benchmark pretty hard.) And while Mirage *can* out dps Ren on SH, Ren pulls ahead in groups that aren't doing the Sandswell strat (i.e. most squads). Which you can see represented on raidar by Ren beating Mirage by 2k at the 90th percentile and Mirage edging out Ren by 500 at the 99th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianTheAngelic.7054 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 ^> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @"idolin.2831" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > For wanting to bolster power builds in PVE, the change to Targeted Destruction is really strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A buff to pve and a nerf to wvw/pvp. The change was legit. > > > > > > I don't get that ... how was scaling this trait a buff to PVE? Sure, for massive zerg ... where it's not that big a deal, it's a small buff. For everything else, you **maybe** break even. > > > > I believe he's referring to instanced PvE, where 25 stacks of vulnerabilities can be maintained more easily. As for open world PvE that's just a minor nerf and the damage decrease doesn't make much of a difference. > > It's a pretty big nerf IMO. The only places that we'll see any change is a 2.5% increase in premade instanced content, and overworld content that is specifically being zerged down. Everywhere else we'll see a nearly 10% nerf in damage: > > PUG Fractals > PUG Dungeons > Small scale Overworld > Solo Overworld > PVP > WvW > > I don't know about you, but when I'm "solo roaming" in the overworld, I'm fighting against champion level mobs by myself. The only vulnerability the enemy gets is when I fill the void in my rotation with auto attacks, so I'm losing 10% of my damage now. All because Anet can't just give us a straight buff. This is a nerf masquerading as a buff. > > The more I think about it, the more I've come to hate this new balance update. It hurts revs without giving us anything in return. The only thing that can be considered a buff is the changes to Song of the Mists, which is a trait that I will never take because it is still far inferior to the other two grandmasters. ^all of this. Such an unnecessary nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conqueror.3682 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 >Draconic Echo: Fixed a bug with this trait that prevented lingering passive effects from granting boons while the revenant was in other stances. I like this change. Next i would like to give their passive effects by just changing legend and not only by using the active skill. >Song of the Mists: This trait's radius of effect has been increased from 180 to 240. The effects provided by each skill activated by this trait have been updated as follows..... I like this but i didnt know if it will compete with the other traits, i always prefer charged mists, but sometimes is hard to control the energy to get their benefits. Also is fun to call legends to have extra effects, rather than just change your utilities. But there are some irrelevant changes, some reductions in searing fissure, but also buffing the power part of the skill, why? the nerf to rampant vex is so little and cant find ay reason to do that. I mean, did condition renegade needed a nerf anyways? Bug fixes are okay, but these changes are so little that feels irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Absolutely indifferent to the changes. I barely touched the game in the last 2 months, since my main focus is (was) PvP/WvW and has been largely proved that is impossible to sustain a competitive videogame without the support of AT LEAST one balance patch each month (the pace is even faster in top popular games in streaming channels). Just don't worth wasting time trying to be better in a game with no future (or present) in the competitive landscape. Targeted Destruction is a straight nerf for everything except comformed Fractal/raid team, which are game departments I don't play. But as said, I no longer care if my favourite class is nerfed in open world PvE/PvP/WvW because lately the game is failing to gain my interest (I didn't reached the new map from the latest Living Story chapert) and I'm not naive or delusional about GW2 having any kind of saved trick to refloat my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 > • Searing Fissure: This skill now applies 3 stacks of burning for 3 seconds on its first hit, and 1 stack of burning for 1 second on the next three hits. The damage of the first > hit has been increased by 100%. **Increased the recharge time from 3 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW only.** Sigh, players that only play power Herald say the energy system is fine, so balance team goes ahead and double dips even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalruse.9085 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 ANet a few months ago: We're making the application of vulnerability require more active engagement; which will translate to 25 stack cap not being as easy to maintain. Also ANet: We're going to tie a profession's damage to vulnerability application and say it's a power increase. Honestly, if they want to do that, then okay I guess? But it needs to at a minimum maintain parity with the previous trait for any chance of it being an increase. An interesting way to have done it could have been to stratify the % increase. So, 1-7 stacks gives x%, 8-15 gives y%, 16-24 stacks gives you z%, and 25 stacks is something that is a cherry on top other than flat damage increase (maybe something to help more with the lack of burst). Keeps solo/roaming power builds at parity or a little better, gives the power Rev a "flavor" that they apply and get a bonus from vuln, and encourages end game groups to maintain high stacks and reward that. I'm not saying this is the best or the right idea, but it's more interesting, engaging, and potentially rewarding then what this has done. If it wasn't for Vicious Lacerations and Swift Termination (the closest thing we have to "burst"), I'd be giving the Retribution line a real close look as a Herald since keeping retaliation up isn't terribly challenging; even solo. Most of the nerfs just feel like a finger in the eye (especially Searing Fissure and Inspiring Reinforcements). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > • Searing Fissure: This skill now applies 3 stacks of burning for 3 seconds on its first hit, and 1 stack of burning for 1 second on the next three hits. The damage of the first > hit has been increased by 100%. **Increased the recharge time from 3 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW only.** > > Sigh, players that only play power Herald say the energy system is fine, so balance team goes ahead and double dips even more. I don't want to spend a lot of time defending this patch because I think it's "lol who cares" at best and a minor nerf that doesn't really change the meta at worst... But, this change is only a nerf to PvE Renegades and is a straight buff for PvP condi Rev's *ESPECIALLY* from an energy cost standpoint. Old SF = 1 stack of a 4 second burn, every 4 seconds = 16 burn ticks possible (4 burn ticks realistic, because nobody who isn't afk is going to face tank a giant pulsing fire field on the ground) - costs 5 energy. New SF = 3 stacks of 3 second burns initially, then 1 stack of 1 second for 3 seconds = 12 burn ticks possible (9 burn ticks realistic) - costs 5 energy. And that's not factoring in the direct damage increase to the first hit or the condi damage being burstier now. This change basically gives you the damage of two searing fissures all up front for the same energy. If they didn't double the cooldown, they would have realistically doubled the damage output of this skill, which arguably condi rev's probably need... But that's not really the point. The point is that you are 100% guaranteed to get more burning damage from the new skill (FOR THE SAME ENERGY COST) in PvP unless you're playing the worst possible players... But then again if you're in the tier where you can play condi rev w/o getting flamed off of your team and reported, maybe you are, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > > • Searing Fissure: This skill now applies 3 stacks of burning for 3 seconds on its first hit, and 1 stack of burning for 1 second on the next three hits. The damage of the first > hit has been increased by 100%. **Increased the recharge time from 3 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW only.** > > > > Sigh, players that only play power Herald say the energy system is fine, so balance team goes ahead and double dips even more. > > I don't want to spend a lot of time defending this patch because I think it's "lol who cares" at best and a minor nerf that doesn't really change the meta at worst... But, this change is only a nerf to PvE Renegades and is a straight buff for PvP condi Rev's *ESPECIALLY* from an energy cost standpoint. > > Old SF = 1 stack of a 4 second burn, every 4 seconds = 16 burn ticks possible (4 burn ticks realistic, because nobody who isn't afk is going to face tank a giant pulsing fire field on the ground) - costs 5 energy. > > New SF = 3 stacks of 3 second burns initially, then 1 stack of 1 second for 3 seconds = 12 burn ticks possible (9 burn ticks realistic) - costs 5 energy. > > And that's not factoring in the direct damage increase to the first hit or the condi damage being burstier now. > > This change basically gives you the damage of two searing fissures all up front for the same energy. If they didn't double the cooldown, they would have realistically doubled the damage output of this skill, which arguably condi rev's probably need... But that's not really the point. > > The point is that you are 100% guaranteed to get more burning damage from the new skill (FOR THE SAME ENERGY COST) in PvP unless you're playing the worst possible players... But then again if you're in the tier where you can play condi rev w/o getting flamed off of your team and reported, maybe you are, so who knows. I don't really care about the mechanics of the skill. I thought short cooldowns were the reason we even have the energy costs. At this point energy is just a nostalgic gimmick for GW1 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar.1793 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 So instead of separating pve and pvp for shackling wave they think adding +40% damage will work ? M’kay Not sure if it’s real but kinda disappointed tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > > • Searing Fissure: This skill now applies 3 stacks of burning for 3 seconds on its first hit, and 1 stack of burning for 1 second on the next three hits. The damage of the first > hit has been increased by 100%. **Increased the recharge time from 3 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW only.** > > > > Sigh, players that only play power Herald say the energy system is fine, so balance team goes ahead and double dips even more. > > I don't want to spend a lot of time defending this patch because I think it's "lol who cares" at best and a minor nerf that doesn't really change the meta at worst... But, this change is only a nerf to PvE Renegades and is a straight buff for PvP condi Rev's *ESPECIALLY* from an energy cost standpoint. > > Old SF = 1 stack of a 4 second burn, every 4 seconds = 16 burn ticks possible (4 burn ticks realistic, because nobody who isn't afk is going to face tank a giant pulsing fire field on the ground) - costs 5 energy. > > New SF = 3 stacks of 3 second burns initially, then 1 stack of 1 second for 3 seconds = 12 burn ticks possible (9 burn ticks realistic) - costs 5 energy. > > And that's not factoring in the direct damage increase to the first hit or the condi damage being burstier now. > > This change basically gives you the damage of two searing fissures all up front for the same energy. If they didn't double the cooldown, they would have realistically doubled the damage output of this skill, which arguably condi rev's probably need... But that's not really the point. > > The point is that you are 100% guaranteed to get more burning damage from the new skill (FOR THE SAME ENERGY COST) in PvP unless you're playing the worst possible players... But then again if you're in the tier where you can play condi rev w/o getting flamed off of your team and reported, maybe you are, so who knows. I dunno about that being a buff in PvP. This is all nice and dandy in PvE. In PvP targets cleanse and move. Reapplication of condi is key for success. This makes reapplication much less accessible. That would have been okay if condi rev was dominating the PvP scene. But this is more taking from the right hand and give to the left hand. If you factor in the other nerfs, it is not a stretch to say condi rev is overall nerfed in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"narcx.3570" said: > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > > > • Searing Fissure: This skill now applies 3 stacks of burning for 3 seconds on its first hit, and 1 stack of burning for 1 second on the next three hits. The damage of the first > hit has been increased by 100%. **Increased the recharge time from 3 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW only.** > > > > > > Sigh, players that only play power Herald say the energy system is fine, so balance team goes ahead and double dips even more. > > > > I don't want to spend a lot of time defending this patch because I think it's "lol who cares" at best and a minor nerf that doesn't really change the meta at worst... But, this change is only a nerf to PvE Renegades and is a straight buff for PvP condi Rev's *ESPECIALLY* from an energy cost standpoint. > > > > Old SF = 1 stack of a 4 second burn, every 4 seconds = 16 burn ticks possible (4 burn ticks realistic, because nobody who isn't afk is going to face tank a giant pulsing fire field on the ground) - costs 5 energy. > > > > New SF = 3 stacks of 3 second burns initially, then 1 stack of 1 second for 3 seconds = 12 burn ticks possible (9 burn ticks realistic) - costs 5 energy. > > > > And that's not factoring in the direct damage increase to the first hit or the condi damage being burstier now. > > > > This change basically gives you the damage of two searing fissures all up front for the same energy. If they didn't double the cooldown, they would have realistically doubled the damage output of this skill, which arguably condi rev's probably need... But that's not really the point. > > > > The point is that you are 100% guaranteed to get more burning damage from the new skill (FOR THE SAME ENERGY COST) in PvP unless you're playing the worst possible players... But then again if you're in the tier where you can play condi rev w/o getting flamed off of your team and reported, maybe you are, so who knows. > > I dunno about that being a buff in PvP. This is all nice and dandy in PvE. In PvP targets cleanse and move. Reapplication of condi is key for success. This makes reapplication much less accessible. That would have been okay if condi rev was dominating the PvP scene. But this is more taking from the right hand and give to the left hand. If you factor in the other nerfs, it is not a stretch to say condi rev is overall nerfed in PvE. That's just it tho... Since targets move, they don't even have to bother cleansing current state SF because they're only getting a whopping 1 stack of burn on them. After the patch, the damage will be frontloded making it at least somewhat noticeable... And if you do want to factor in cleansing, they will also have less of a window to cleanse the damage since the same amount of damage will be occurring in a 3 second window, where it would have previously taken 9 seconds (and multiple skill usages) to deliver. Even if it gets cleansed one second after its application, it will have almost done the same amount of damage tha an entire un-cleansed SF does now. While condi rev certainly has much biggest issues than anything revolving around searing fissure, can you really say that you'll miss spending 5 energy every 3 seconds for ONE stack of burning? I'd much rather spend 5 energy every 6 seconds for 3 stacks of burning and then use that extra energy and casting time to pile on more things in that same window of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 The changes won't do anything for rev in pvp. It will still be power herald/shiro with double sword and staff because they didn't actually touch what needed changing. OH sword needs damage nerfs so it isn't a 1 shot wombo combo, shield needs the root removed from 5, and sword 2, 3, and 4 need target damage splits removed so they can be a reliable single target burst instead of having all their damage go away the second a mes makes clones are allies come to plus against the rev. Buffing song of the mist won't do anything since 40% crit chance from fury is too good to pass up on a build that relies on doing damage fast. Maybe these changes will allow condi rev or something to work a little better but overall, these changes do nothing and fail to address any of the problems that have been brought up by the rev community multiple times. It's like talking to a child, you ask them to lock the door or something, they look at it, unlock it, walk away and say "fuck you". That's how anet's balancing looks to the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"narcx.3570" said: > > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > > > > > • Searing Fissure: This skill now applies 3 stacks of burning for 3 seconds on its first hit, and 1 stack of burning for 1 second on the next three hits. The damage of the first > hit has been increased by 100%. **Increased the recharge time from 3 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW only.** > > > > > > > > Sigh, players that only play power Herald say the energy system is fine, so balance team goes ahead and double dips even more. > > > > > > I don't want to spend a lot of time defending this patch because I think it's "lol who cares" at best and a minor nerf that doesn't really change the meta at worst... But, this change is only a nerf to PvE Renegades and is a straight buff for PvP condi Rev's *ESPECIALLY* from an energy cost standpoint. > > > > > > Old SF = 1 stack of a 4 second burn, every 4 seconds = 16 burn ticks possible (4 burn ticks realistic, because nobody who isn't afk is going to face tank a giant pulsing fire field on the ground) - costs 5 energy. > > > > > > New SF = 3 stacks of 3 second burns initially, then 1 stack of 1 second for 3 seconds = 12 burn ticks possible (9 burn ticks realistic) - costs 5 energy. > > > > > > And that's not factoring in the direct damage increase to the first hit or the condi damage being burstier now. > > > > > > This change basically gives you the damage of two searing fissures all up front for the same energy. If they didn't double the cooldown, they would have realistically doubled the damage output of this skill, which arguably condi rev's probably need... But that's not really the point. > > > > > > The point is that you are 100% guaranteed to get more burning damage from the new skill (FOR THE SAME ENERGY COST) in PvP unless you're playing the worst possible players... But then again if you're in the tier where you can play condi rev w/o getting flamed off of your team and reported, maybe you are, so who knows. > > > > I dunno about that being a buff in PvP. This is all nice and dandy in PvE. In PvP targets cleanse and move. Reapplication of condi is key for success. This makes reapplication much less accessible. That would have been okay if condi rev was dominating the PvP scene. But this is more taking from the right hand and give to the left hand. If you factor in the other nerfs, it is not a stretch to say condi rev is overall nerfed in PvE. > > That's just it tho... Since targets move, they don't even have to bother cleansing current state SF because they're only getting a whopping 1 stack of burn on them. After the patch, the damage will be frontloded making it at least somewhat noticeable... And if you do want to factor in cleansing, they will also have less of a window to cleanse the damage since the same amount of damage will be occurring in a 3 second window, where it would have previously taken 9 seconds (and multiple skill usages) to deliver. Even if it gets cleansed one second after its application, it will have almost done the same amount of damage tha an entire un-cleansed SF does now. > > While condi rev certainly has much biggest issues than anything revolving around searing fissure, can you really say that you'll miss spending 5 energy every 3 seconds for ONE stack of burning? I'd much rather spend 5 energy every 6 seconds for 3 stacks of burning and then use that extra energy and casting time to pile on more things in that same window of time. I play both condi guardian and rev (not much rev anymore). The reapplication of condis is far more useful in PvP than longer CD. The 5 energy cost is irrelevant. And if you look at condi rev in PvP as a whole, I do not think it would have been an issue for it to remain 3 sec in PvP. I dunno if Anet is really this clueless that an extremely terrible PvP build needs a pre nerf before the buff is even tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"narcx.3570" said: > > That's just it tho... Since targets move, they don't even have to bother cleansing current state SF because they're only getting a whopping 1 stack of burn on them. After the patch, the damage will be frontloded making it at least somewhat noticeable... And if you do want to factor in cleansing, they will also have less of a window to cleanse the damage since the same amount of damage will be occurring in a 3 second window, where it would have previously taken 9 seconds (and multiple skill usages) to deliver. Even if it gets cleansed one second after its application, it will have almost done the same amount of damage tha an entire un-cleansed SF does now. > > While condi rev certainly has much biggest issues than anything revolving around searing fissure, can you really say that you'll miss spending 5 energy every 3 seconds for ONE stack of burning? I'd much rather spend 5 energy every 6 seconds for 3 stacks of burning and then use that extra energy and casting time to pile on more things in that same window of time. While I do see it as more of a buff than a nerf for PvP/WvW, Searing Fissure being on a 3s CD does have its benefits too. These are some examples of how I use it, beyond as a source of damage: -Bait dodges. Example: I engage with Axe 4. Usually they will dodge immediately after. I will lay down SF, which will sometimes yield another dodge. I can then more comfortably set up a CC/burst chain. -Create distance and a control area. I have noticed I use this against thieves and warriors the most. If the enemy sees a red AoE, they will most likely try to avoid it. If they don't, they will have to eat the damage. In these situations I will use it before the enemy is actually at my location, so the initial 3-burn tick would be irrelevant and the additional 3s CD would hurt. -Apply swiftness via Rapid Flow. If I run core, this is often my only source of swiftness. Having SF on a 3s CD is really nice since RF has a 5s ICD. Admittedly, these uses partially prove that the skill isn't necessarily fulfilling its primary purpose of damage, but that it having a 3s CD still has its share of benefits. Regardless, as I said, I do see the upcoming change as more of a buff than a nerf for PvP/WvW. The frontloaded damage sounds very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianTheAngelic.7054 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Ario.8964" said: > OH sword needs damage nerfs so it isn't a 1 shot wombo combo Woah now let’s not get crazy. Sword 4 already got the nerf bat once which brought it inline and now _the entirety of devastation power rev just lost another 5-7% damage_ against targets with vuln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > OH sword needs damage nerfs so it isn't a 1 shot wombo combo > > Woah now let’s not get crazy. Sword 4 already got the nerf bat once which brought it inline and now _the entirety of devastation power rev just lost another 5-7% damage_ against targets with vuln > > Sword 4's cast time increase didn't do anything to change the damage output it has against a single target. The core problem with OH sword right now is it's so loaded with damage you can't buff rev sustain or or damage outside of it without fear of re becoming too strong since it essentially has a 2 shot available to it in the form of sword 4 and 5. If you nerf those it gives rev breathing room to get buffed in ways like: Making the other legends more survivable/functionally solid, buffing shield (removing 5 root, buffing heals possibly a small bit), removal of damage splits from sword 2,3,4 to allow for high single target damage in any scenario, not just isolated 1v1s. Yeah the vuln nerf is a bit rough overall, but it hasn't solved any problems rev has so I don't imagine it will prove very effective over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianTheAngelic.7054 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 > @"Ario.8964" said: > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said: > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > OH sword needs damage nerfs so it isn't a 1 shot wombo combo > > > > Woah now let’s not get crazy. Sword 4 already got the nerf bat once which brought it inline and now _the entirety of devastation power rev just lost another 5-7% damage_ against targets with vuln > > > > > > Sword 4's cast time increase didn't do anything to change the damage output it has against a single target. The core problem with OH sword right now is it's so loaded with damage you can't buff rev sustain or or damage outside of it without fear of re becoming too strong since it essentially has a 2 shot available to it in the form of sword 4 and 5. If you nerf those it gives rev breathing room to get buffed in ways like: Making the other legends more survivable/functionally solid, buffing shield (removing 5 root, buffing heals possibly a small bit), removal of damage splits from sword 2,3,4 to allow for high single target damage in any scenario, not just isolated 1v1s. Yeah the vuln nerf is a bit rough overall, but it hasn't solved any problems rev has so I don't imagine it will prove very effective over time. So you don’t want rev to be able to kill things easily is what I’m hearing? Cuz sure, rev can two shot you (if the opponent is stupid enough to get hit by it) but so can pretty much every other class in the game. So unless you’re advocating massive damage reduction across the board I’m absolutely against further nerfs to sword 4/5. Further, the cast time increase didn’t nerf the damage _directly_ but it _buffed the counterplay_ to the skill, just like the arcdivider nerfs did to power berserker ages ago. It decreased total pvp dps output slightly and allows the opponent to actually avoid the damage entirely. This is good for the game as it promotes skill based gameplay and awareness. And as for rev getting other buffs to underperforming legends and weapons, as you mention, that has _little to do with offhand sword._ Shield for example is pretty much an “either or” scenario where you’re either taking OH sword or taking shield; no one is going to give up staff to take both. So shield buffs can happen (and should happen) regardless of what happens to offhand sword. And the same goes for legends; none of the legends are performing at a high level outside of shiro/glint which, once again, has nothing to do with OH sword and has everything to do with the legend skills themselves and what they bring to the table. Jails and mallyx probably are the closest to being good pvp legends, but ventari and Kalla are far from being solid in pvp. All 4 of them have issues in sustain/utility that could be addressed without the need to further nerf Revenant power damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @"idolin.2831" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > For wanting to bolster power builds in PVE, the change to Targeted Destruction is really strange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A buff to pve and a nerf to wvw/pvp. The change was legit. > > > > > > > > I don't get that ... how was scaling this trait a buff to PVE? Sure, for massive zerg ... where it's not that big a deal, it's a small buff. For everything else, you **maybe** break even. > > > > > > I believe he's referring to instanced PvE, where 25 stacks of vulnerabilities can be maintained more easily. As for open world PvE that's just a minor nerf and the damage decrease doesn't make much of a difference. > > > > It's a pretty big nerf IMO. The only places that we'll see any change is a 2.5% increase in premade instanced content, and overworld content that is specifically being zerged down. Everywhere else we'll see a nearly 10% nerf in damage: > > > > PUG Fractals > > PUG Dungeons > > Small scale Overworld > > Solo Overworld > > PVP > > WvW > > > > I don't know about you, but when I'm "solo roaming" in the overworld, I'm fighting against champion level mobs by myself. The only vulnerability the enemy gets is when I fill the void in my rotation with auto attacks, so I'm losing 10% of my damage now. All because Anet can't just give us a straight buff. This is a nerf masquerading as a buff. > > > > The more I think about it, the more I've come to hate this new balance update. It hurts revs without giving us anything in return. The only thing that can be considered a buff is the changes to Song of the Mists, which is a trait that I will never take because it is still far inferior to the other two grandmasters. > > Exactly ... so again, I'm thinking if Anet wants to improve Power PVE on Revenant, giving it a minor nerf with the exception of a small subset of PVE is backwards. In essence, you need to run around with a posse everywhere to get this 'boost' for PVE. That's just not realistic. The problem you're both missing here is that just like with power reaper, Anet is doing anemic changes to both these power specs because power herald and reaper are represented and doing well in PvP and Anet LOATHES doing comprehensive numerical skill splits. So what they did was went and buffed the most niche sources of damage that affect PvP the least, namely Nightfall and cold shoulder (100% uptime on chill is already bad in PvE, but in PvP it's nonexistent to begin with). Same goes for revenant. The obvious solution would have been to leave the modifier alone and give 30% buffs across the board to sword skills and remove energy costs off weapon skills to improve the state of revenant in PvE. To improve Unrelenting Assault as a PvE skill by making it single target and revert the damage and cooldown nerfs it suffered in PvE thanks to PvP balancing. To also make Precision strike not split damage, and same for shackling wave, making them cleave spells just like warrior and guardian with fixed cleave damage on all mobs. But they didn't, because Irenio balances this game primarily through PvP gimmicks in mind and PvE is collateral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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