Balance Patch

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Milosz.5938" said:

> I'm copying my own comment from "Update notes" here:

>

>

>

> Hehehehehehehehe

> trololololo

> Conjure Frost Bow: Changed the name of the item summoned by this skill from "ice bow" to "frost bow." the most important change hehehehehehehehehehe

>

> and few other nice fragments :astonished: ;

>

> ...The increased boon duration that this skill grants has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. wow 1 secund more thxxxxxxx trololo

>

> (((((((((((((((((( "Wash the Pain Away!": This skill now cleanses one condition from nearby allies on its final pulse.

> • "Feel the Burn!": This skill now applies 3 stacks of might to nearby allies for 10 seconds in addition to its other effects. Updated the effects to more accurately represent the attack's radius. Updated the hit detection to be more consistent at close distances.

> • "Flash-Freeze!": This skill now applies 4 seconds of regeneration to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.

> • "Aftershock!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of protection to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.

> • "Eye of the Storm!": This skill now applies 10 seconds of swiftness to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.

> • "Rebound!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of fury to nearby allies in addition to its other effects. ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) = 1 elixir in engineer utility skill's slot trolololo so why you wrote soo much text...

> Usefull trololo changes in trololo elementalist.

>

> WOW thx ....from 2 to 3 secunds... more time for laughing

 

The buffs are nice, its great that you didnt post the one where shouts will affect 10 allies with Tempestuous Aria.. depending on game mode, Tempest will definitely see more play in PvE,Tempest was already Meta in WvW for 20 man groups and could possibly be used in larger groups, PvP is the only one where these changes won't make tempest more desirable

[supreme.3602]

You will see a lot more melee tempests in WvW. Perhaps even more players using dagger/warhorn—a weapon choice I once disliked a lot.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Dahir.4158" said:

> You will see a lot more melee tempests in WvW. Perhaps even more players using dagger/warhorn—a weapon choice I once disliked a lot.

 

You are overly excited for nothing...you're not used to read "tempest buffs" and that got you out of the loop..now to the real facts:

 

- one extra condi cleared with wash the pain away

- 10 target trait for shouts on a 600 range anyway

 

How these 2 small "changes" will suddenly spawn lot more tempest...I don't know

[melandru.3876]

to those who say these "little" changes mean nothing, they are wrong!

these changes are massive.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiNYCmOAcYilBAzd1+avtBBgIQBgoJkFKCA-jlxGQBk7BA6AmoSQgt/AAuAA0T9HCq8jUA+NzC-w

 

this is the build i play, auramancer with a focus on aurasharing( healing) and providing auras cures conditions (2!!!!!!!) 1 because of fire trait, and 1 because of antitoxin runes.

even better, detonating an aura removes 2 conditions (3 with antitoxin runes)

 

this build that i use, is a hard-carry for things like siren reef fractals where projectiles and condis are everywhere.

for siren reef, you could go full hardcore, and swap out conjure fire axe, for conjure earth shield to have yet another magnetic aura, as we all know reflects are king in siren reef

 

you have so many ways to give auras with my build:

 

1) attuning to fire gives fire aura

2) overloading fire gives fire aura

3) using conjure flame axe gives fire aura

4) conjure flame axe 4 and use skill 5 inside gives fire aura

5) repicking the second dropped flame axe gives fire aura

6)"feel the burn" gives fire aura

7) staff water 2 inside staff water 4 gives frost aura

8) using the above second dropped flame axe skill 5(from step 5) in ice field from staff 4 (should be 0.5sec time frame left) gives frost aura

9) overloading water gives frost aura

10) getting hit while below 75% health gives frost aura

11) overload air gives shock aura (tho, i rarely if ever attune to air, only when i really need to aid in cc)

12) earth staff 3 is magnetic aura (can be detonated, 3 condi cleanse with antitoxin rune)

13) overloading earth is magnetic aura

14) "aftershock" is magnetic aura

15) "rebound" in whatever attunement is either of 4 auras

 

those are your on-spot heals and condi cleanes

 

there are other ways possible, as you have blast finnishers ready for either ice or fire field blasting

 

like earth staff 2 (blast) + "aftershock" (blast+magnetic aura) inside ice field for 2 frost aura(spraid the skills, to not have double auras as they don't stack, or in a fire field for might stacking (this build also capable to provide 25 might) + fury

[Auburner.6945]

The changes are good for organized GvG, it won't see the light outside of this scenario. Not in PvE, PvP or normal WvW roaming/pug.

 

Tempest's prot is 40% add on that the frost aura that is one of the most maintainable auras on Tempest with the 15 target shouts caused by Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura - that's 15 players with 50% incoming damage reduction, with magnetic and shocking auras and the shout's (somehow ok) boons and burst heals. The buffs will work only for organized GvGs. Although these boons are better provided by other classes, but the shouts are both defense and offense with specific effects to Tempest only. Not the kind of buff we're looking for, but I hope it's a start. All I want for ANet is to get rid of the fear of providing ele with better boon uptime (more stacks than 3 Might, 5s of Fury on an elite, joke tbh), higher damage with sustain or strong boons, and to not always look for golem benchmarks because we used to be the highest burst DPS, now we're 3rd or 4th highest burst with no cleave even in PvE while still holding onto the issues of providing no party support or enemy control.

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"Auburner.6945" said:

> The changes are good for organized GvG, it won't see the light outside of this scenario. Not in PvE, PvP or normal WvW roaming/pug.

>

> Tempest's prot is 40% add on that the frost aura that is one of the most maintainable auras on Tempest with the 15 target shouts caused by Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura - that's 15 players with 50% incoming damage reduction, with magnetic and shocking auras and the shout's (somehow ok) boons and burst heals. The buffs will work only for organized GvGs. Although these boons are better provided by other classes, but the shouts are both defense and offense with specific effects to Tempest only. Not the kind of buff we're looking for, but I hope it's a start. All I want for ANet is to get rid of the fear of providing ele with better boon uptime (more stacks than 3 Might, 5s of Fury on an elite, joke tbh), higher damage with sustain or strong boons, and to not always look for golem benchmarks because we used to be the highest burst DPS, now we're 3rd or 4th highest burst with no cleave even in PvE while still holding onto the issues of providing no party support or enemy control.

 

The 40% damage reduction from protection applies only the tempest itself, no matter the source of the protection boon. In addition powerful aura does not work that way. It copies the aura that you apply to yourself to 5 allies. The aura will simply get reapplied to allies that would already get it from the shout, and you get no extra aura uptime because they don't stack in duration. Though you do get 2x the aura trait procs on 5 of your allies. You use powerful aura for those extra trait procs and to extend any selfish aura applications to 5 extra allies. It should be noted that if you do not use tempestuous aria the powerful aura trait extends shout aura application from 5 people to 6 though, because it makes you give the aura to yourself + 5 more allies.

[Auburner.6945]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Auburner.6945" said:

> > The changes are good for organized GvG, it won't see the light outside of this scenario. Not in PvE, PvP or normal WvW roaming/pug.

> >

> > Tempest's prot is 40% add on that the frost aura that is one of the most maintainable auras on Tempest with the 15 target shouts caused by Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura - that's 15 players with 50% incoming damage reduction, with magnetic and shocking auras and the shout's (somehow ok) boons and burst heals. The buffs will work only for organized GvGs. Although these boons are better provided by other classes, but the shouts are both defense and offense with specific effects to Tempest only. Not the kind of buff we're looking for, but I hope it's a start. All I want for ANet is to get rid of the fear of providing ele with better boon uptime (more stacks than 3 Might, 5s of Fury on an elite, joke tbh), higher damage with sustain or strong boons, and to not always look for golem benchmarks because we used to be the highest burst DPS, now we're 3rd or 4th highest burst with no cleave even in PvE while still holding onto the issues of providing no party support or enemy control.

>

> The 40% damage reduction from protection applies only the tempest itself, no matter the source of the protection boon. In addition powerful aura does not work that way. It copies the aura that you apply to yourself to 5 allies. The aura will simply get reapplied to allies that would already get it from the shout, and you get no extra aura uptime because they don't stack in duration. Though you do get 2x the aura trait procs on 5 of your allies. You use powerful aura for those extra trait procs and to extend any selfish aura applications to 5 extra allies. It should be noted that if you do not use tempestuous aria the powerful aura trait extends shout aura application from 5 people to 6 though, because it makes you give the aura to yourself + 5 more allies.

 

Well, you're right, yet 43% isn't bad. For Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura, if ANet made it 11 targets only (including Tempest) then this will solve nothing except more Auras, nothing else. There are already 2 Tempests in GvGs, if one Tempest can't cover the whole squad then there will still be a need for 2 Tempests, this will only mean more auras application which we all know means nothing as the duration doesn't stack but it gets refreshed which is not something any leader would rely on, that the Tempests won't use the same aura at the same time (and there will already be 5 auras wasted if it's 10 targets only), which means a waste of auras as the boons that come with them are not the main cause of why they're picked, except Aftershock maybe. I hope it's 15 targets, else Invigorating Torrents is still a better pick imo, higher survivability while making use of the extra boons that will be introduced. There is also an other thing that should be considered which is Scrapper buffs, I don't know how things would turn out to either supporting specs.

[steki.1478]

> @"Auburner.6945" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"Auburner.6945" said:

> > > The changes are good for organized GvG, it won't see the light outside of this scenario. Not in PvE, PvP or normal WvW roaming/pug.

> > >

> > > Tempest's prot is 40% add on that the frost aura that is one of the most maintainable auras on Tempest with the 15 target shouts caused by Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura - that's 15 players with 50% incoming damage reduction, with magnetic and shocking auras and the shout's (somehow ok) boons and burst heals. The buffs will work only for organized GvGs. Although these boons are better provided by other classes, but the shouts are both defense and offense with specific effects to Tempest only. Not the kind of buff we're looking for, but I hope it's a start. All I want for ANet is to get rid of the fear of providing ele with better boon uptime (more stacks than 3 Might, 5s of Fury on an elite, joke tbh), higher damage with sustain or strong boons, and to not always look for golem benchmarks because we used to be the highest burst DPS, now we're 3rd or 4th highest burst with no cleave even in PvE while still holding onto the issues of providing no party support or enemy control.

> >

> > The 40% damage reduction from protection applies only the tempest itself, no matter the source of the protection boon. In addition powerful aura does not work that way. It copies the aura that you apply to yourself to 5 allies. The aura will simply get reapplied to allies that would already get it from the shout, and you get no extra aura uptime because they don't stack in duration. Though you do get 2x the aura trait procs on 5 of your allies. You use powerful aura for those extra trait procs and to extend any selfish aura applications to 5 extra allies. It should be noted that if you do not use tempestuous aria the powerful aura trait extends shout aura application from 5 people to 6 though, because it makes you give the aura to yourself + 5 more allies.

>

> Well, you're right, yet 43% isn't bad. For Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura, if ANet made it 11 targets only (including Tempest) then this will solve nothing except more Auras, nothing else. There are already 2 Tempests in GvGs, if one Tempest can't cover the whole squad then there will still be a need for 2 Tempests, this will only mean more auras application which we all know means nothing as the duration doesn't stack but it gets refreshed which is not something any leader would rely on, that the Tempests won't use the same aura at the same time (and there will already be 5 auras wasted if it's 10 targets only), which means a waste of auras as the boons that come with them are not the main cause of why they're picked, except Aftershock maybe. I hope it's 15 targets, else Invigorating Torrents is still a better pick imo, higher survivability while making use of the extra boons that will be introduced. There is also an other thing that should be considered which is Scrapper buffs, I don't know how things would turn out to either supporting specs.

 

Regen is provided by guardians anyway and you can give vigor+endurance with other tempest trait if necessary.

 

10 man shouts let you swap cleansing waters for powerful aura and you still get the cleansing effect from fire trait. You're basically losing regen+vigor (that can be provided in other ways) but gain a lot higher group uptime on all auras (especially frost) as well as more cleanses.

[Arkaile.5604]

@"Auburner.6945" It's a small nit pick in this case, but it should be noted that damage reduction, as far as I know, stacks multiplicatively and not additively.

 

1 - ((1 - 0.33) x (1 - 0.1)) = **0.397** (for allies)

1 - ((1 - 0.4) x (1 - 0.1)) = **0.46** (for tempests)

 

By stacking prot with frost aura, your allies will receive a damage reduction of 39.7% and not 43% and a tempest would receive a damage reduction of 46%, not 50%.

[supreme.3602]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Dahir.4158" said:

> > You will see a lot more melee tempests in WvW. Perhaps even more players using dagger/warhorn—a weapon choice I once disliked a lot.

>

> You are overly excited for nothing...you're not used to read "tempest buffs" and that got you out of the loop..now to the real facts:

>

> - one extra condi cleared with wash the pain away

> - 10 target trait for shouts on a 600 range anyway

>

> How these 2 small "changes" will suddenly spawn lot more tempest...I don't know

 

Why are you upset? The new trait is a big change for us when it comes to supporting allies. Plus, we can access a new source of condition cleansing via Smothering Aura, which in turn would affect the 10-man shouts, and now the 10-man Sand Squall. That is what I mean when I say we will see more tempests, because our usefulness in blob fights has just increased by a lot. There are so many classes that can pew pew players for fun these days, so imagine us giving reflect to our allies via Sand Squall, Earth Overload and Aftershock.

 

Now think of the frost auras and the superspeed, then tell me we won't see more healing tempests in the game.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Dahir.4158" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Dahir.4158" said:

> > > You will see a lot more melee tempests in WvW. Perhaps even more players using dagger/warhorn—a weapon choice I once disliked a lot.

> >

> > You are overly excited for nothing...you're not used to read "tempest buffs" and that got you out of the loop..now to the real facts:

> >

> > - one extra condi cleared with wash the pain away

> > - 10 target trait for shouts on a 600 range anyway

> >

> > How these 2 small "changes" will suddenly spawn lot more tempest...I don't know

>

> Why are you upset? The new trait is a big change for us when it comes to supporting allies. Plus, we can access a new source of condition cleansing via Smothering Aura, which in turn would affect the 10-man shouts, and now the 10-man Sand Squall. That is what I mean when I say we will see more tempests, because our usefulness in blob fights has just increased by a lot. There are so many classes that can pew pew players for fun these days, so imagine us giving reflect to our allies via Sand Squall, Earth Overload and Aftershock.

>

> Now think of the frost auras and the superspeed, then tell me we won't see more healing tempests in the game.

 

Because the problem is not really the support you provide to others...it's your ability to resist focus fire while doing so and the incoming patch won't do anything to help with that : no blocks and no evades ..nothing to keep up with current power creep burst and nothing has been done to reduce it , if instead we take a look at engineer...

 

 

[Josre.5924]

For the nth time, ele receives the least impactful and least thoughtful balance changes of every profession. I don't understand the hype.

[melandru.3876]

> @"Celtus.8456" said:

> For the nth time, ele receives the least impactful and least thoughtful balance changes of every profession. I don't understand the hype.

 

warrior balance patch wants to have a word with you

[Auburner.6945]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Auburner.6945" said:

> > > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > > @"Auburner.6945" said:

> > > > The changes are good for organized GvG, it won't see the light outside of this scenario. Not in PvE, PvP or normal WvW roaming/pug.

> > > >

> > > > Tempest's prot is 40% add on that the frost aura that is one of the most maintainable auras on Tempest with the 15 target shouts caused by Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura - that's 15 players with 50% incoming damage reduction, with magnetic and shocking auras and the shout's (somehow ok) boons and burst heals. The buffs will work only for organized GvGs. Although these boons are better provided by other classes, but the shouts are both defense and offense with specific effects to Tempest only. Not the kind of buff we're looking for, but I hope it's a start. All I want for ANet is to get rid of the fear of providing ele with better boon uptime (more stacks than 3 Might, 5s of Fury on an elite, joke tbh), higher damage with sustain or strong boons, and to not always look for golem benchmarks because we used to be the highest burst DPS, now we're 3rd or 4th highest burst with no cleave even in PvE while still holding onto the issues of providing no party support or enemy control.

> > >

> > > The 40% damage reduction from protection applies only the tempest itself, no matter the source of the protection boon. In addition powerful aura does not work that way. It copies the aura that you apply to yourself to 5 allies. The aura will simply get reapplied to allies that would already get it from the shout, and you get no extra aura uptime because they don't stack in duration. Though you do get 2x the aura trait procs on 5 of your allies. You use powerful aura for those extra trait procs and to extend any selfish aura applications to 5 extra allies. It should be noted that if you do not use tempestuous aria the powerful aura trait extends shout aura application from 5 people to 6 though, because it makes you give the aura to yourself + 5 more allies.

> >

> > Well, you're right, yet 43% isn't bad. For Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura, if ANet made it 11 targets only (including Tempest) then this will solve nothing except more Auras, nothing else. There are already 2 Tempests in GvGs, if one Tempest can't cover the whole squad then there will still be a need for 2 Tempests, this will only mean more auras application which we all know means nothing as the duration doesn't stack but it gets refreshed which is not something any leader would rely on, that the Tempests won't use the same aura at the same time (and there will already be 5 auras wasted if it's 10 targets only), which means a waste of auras as the boons that come with them are not the main cause of why they're picked, except Aftershock maybe. I hope it's 15 targets, else Invigorating Torrents is still a better pick imo, higher survivability while making use of the extra boons that will be introduced. There is also an other thing that should be considered which is Scrapper buffs, I don't know how things would turn out to either supporting specs.

>

> Regen is provided by guardians anyway and you can give vigor+endurance with other tempest trait if necessary.

>

> 10 man shouts let you swap cleansing waters for powerful aura and you still get the cleansing effect from fire trait. You're basically losing regen+vigor (that can be provided in other ways) but gain a lot higher group uptime on all auras (especially frost) as well as more cleanses.

 

The problem I see with having many Tempests is auras over-kill, which means nothing as auras aren't a boon to stack. The auras don't stack duration so there might be wastes. If Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura don't cover up to 15 targets, this will keep the number of Tempests used almost the same as now. Also Tempestuous Aria and Powerful Aura will have 5 auras wasted every time an aura-shout is used even if it was 1 tempest only, the boon bonus only applies to Tempestuous Aria as well, so it's a complete waste of potential 5 more allies in terms of auras and boons.

 

Edit: Didn't see you've mentioned Cleansing Waters, got what you meant.

[Auburner.6945]

> @"Arkaile.5604" said:

> @"Auburner.6945" It's a small nit pick in this case, but it should be noted that damage reduction, as far as I know, stacks multiplicatively and not additively.

>

> 1 - ((1 - 0.33) x (1 - 0.1)) = **0.397** (for allies)

> 1 - ((1 - 0.4) x (1 - 0.1)) = **0.46** (for tempests)

>

> By stacking prot with frost aura, your allies will receive a damage reduction of 39.7% and not 43% and a tempest would receive a damage reduction of 46%, not 50%.

 

From what I've read on Wiki is that some damage reduction effects stack additively while others multiplicatively. Guess ANet should give further information as Wiki also states that this stacking is inconsistent.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Would be interesting to see tempest becomes the second healer in 10 men raid setting, or DPS tempest for buff matter due to buff to sand squall. Especially now that boons on druid spirit doesn't pulse and chrono SoI duration become a bit tighter.

 

10 men shout also opens up some skip-able raid mechanics like rebound for clap in CA or burst heal with wash the pain away. As well as some juicy condi cleanse in fights like soulless horror. However it does give me some distortion-share skip vibe in the past and I hope that won't cause nerf in the future.

[lLobo.7960]

> @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:

> Would be interesting to see tempest becomes the second healer in 10 men raid setting, or DPS tempest for buff matter due to buff to sand squall.

 

What would be interesting is to have options for once. Not to be pigeonholed on whatever role ANet decides each spec should have.

 

Give aura share to tempest, make tempest be the AoE spec that focus on staying longer on attunements (for overloads or camping)...

Give aura heal to water...

Make certain overloads more group suportive (air overload should pulse static discharge to group, not give it only once)

Make Arcane Shield an aura and give it to rebound, make the blast effect active instead of passive and the dmg increase the more it blocks.

 

Now give the improved protection to earth and an earth trait to give magnectic auras pulse stability.

Remove the fire trait that cleanses conditions, give fire a trait to make fire auras pulse might and one to give resistance

Give air a trait for static aura give superspeed, and another that gives quickness whenever you give superspeed.

 

With this the tempest has the options to be an offensive buffer (fire/air) or defensive (water/earth) or a mixed one. He can use shouts or aurashare for buffing the group.

With this, eles can use water to cleanse conditions, or fire to resist them. Eles (other than tempest) also have the option to use auras for sustain.

 

 

 

[TheJmandude.1548]

Two things I want changed:

1. Make conjures ammo based.

2. Shave off the cooldowns of cantrips, fire greatsword, and glyph of renewal.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

> @"lLobo.7960" said:

> > @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:

> > Would be interesting to see tempest becomes the second healer in 10 men raid setting, or DPS tempest for buff matter due to buff to sand squall.

>

> What would be interesting is to have options for once. Not to be pigeonholed on whatever role ANet decides each spec should have.

>

> Give aura share to tempest, make tempest be the AoE spec that focus on staying longer on attunements (for overloads or camping)...

> Give aura heal to water...

> Make certain overloads more group suportive (air overload should pulse static discharge to group, not give it only once)

> Make Arcane Shield an aura and give it to rebound, make the blast effect active instead of passive and the dmg increase the more it blocks.

>

> Now give the improved protection to earth and an earth trait to give magnectic auras pulse stability.

> Remove the fire trait that cleanses conditions, give fire a trait to make fire auras pulse might and one to give resistance

> Give air a trait for static aura give superspeed, and another that gives quickness whenever you give superspeed.

>

> With this the tempest has the options to be an offensive buffer (fire/air) or defensive (water/earth) or a mixed one. He can use shouts or aurashare for buffing the group.

> With this, eles can use water to cleanse conditions, or fire to resist them. Eles (other than tempest) also have the option to use auras for sustain.

>

>

>

 

I like your suggestions. It might make auras a lot more interesting!

Still missing tempest defense, it was a great trait, especially with lightning rod. ANet is working hard to shutdown ele sustain. Next patch, we might loose passive arcane armor too.