TorQ.7041 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I also think that you hate sic em rangers so much. But really you can go do the same thing as a mesmer. From stealth. It's even more effective imo. Since even if you miss. Your auto attack can still kill them in seconds. So really where is your over powered comment for power Chrono or mirage? Your class can do it but other classes can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeteCommander.4937 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 good job, man. :) <3 I totally agree with you. What you said is as good as what I thought. I know I'm not the only one who thinks so.After reading your post, I feel better. Thank you for your post :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeteCommander.4937 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Condition is absolutely the worst design. People complain about the condition and tolerate 10K + instantaneous damage. This is not fair at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main. Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > What's the point of making a balance note if you address the sheer silliness of Unstoppable Union's potential 40% Unblockable uptime, but deliberately make no comment on something like Evasive Mirror's 2s Reflect on a 1.5s cd. What's the potential projectile blocking uptime of that? Yes I'm sure it would be great if Soulbeasts had reduced access to Unblockable but Mirage lowkey kept the Reflect uptime. You're too biased, IMO > > > > Edit: If you say that just because something isn't meta definining, we still need to talk about the silly and unhealthy traits/mechanics, that's fine. We can operate under those parameters if you don't protect your Mirage class because it's not meta defining. Holo isn't meta defining, neither is Longbow SlB, yet that's pretty much the point of your balance note to address. > > Why would I need to? There's a million posts about mesmers on the PvP forum already. Whereas no one ever talks about Spellbreakers, Engineers, Rangers. I mean people are talking about scrappers now. But at least 50% of what's so powerful defensively on scrappers is coming from Inventions+Alchemy combo and I think most people who are shocked at all the scrappers running around now aren't aware of that. > > There have been tons of threads about the Evasive Mirror. There have been tons of threads about the detargets. There have been tons of threads about Portal. There have been tons of threads about the damage out put. There have been tons of threads about Blurred Inscriptions. I know because I've participated in them and [frequently agree or recommend my own personal takes on what should change](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/818151/#Comment_818151 "frequently agree or recommend my own personal takes on what should change"). > > You on the other hand, whenever anyone points out Holosmith has been an excellent build, A Tier in literally all aspects of conquest, since Path of Fire. You go on the defensive, talk about how they aren't winning enough Monthly Tournaments to justify nerfing any aspect of them in any capacity, as if other classes and builds ever get that kind of luxury. > > How's that old saying go? When you point a finger at someone you're pointing three fingers back at yourself? Something like that? Because literally no one has problems with these classes and no 1 is complaining apart from you if no one is complaining obviously it means no 1 else is having problems apart from you. Therefore, it's really not a balance issue. It's your issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Falan.1839" said: > "I'm mirage and now I actually have to use my brain to win 1v1s, please nerf everything that can kill me." "I'm holo/soulbeast and I still don't have to use my brain to win 1v1s since my s-tier damage, sustain, re-sustain, and disengage low key carry me while hate for other classes distracts from my OPness; please keep it that way." FIFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 @"mortrialus.3062" I think where you went wrong is disclosing that you're a mirage main. While open-minded people would view candor as bolstering credibility, the mirage-hate still runs deep, even after the latest nerf-nails in its coffin. The truly biased ones in this discussion can't see your points past the word mirage. @"Chaith.8256" sits here vehemently defending his class and calling you biased in order to discredit what you say, but doesn't actually address the majority of the points you make. People usually do that when you've made good points and they can't objectively counter them. Much easier to accuse bias (as if the same can't be said of oneself) and rocket boot away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. While desperately trying to appear as a saint...claiming your "balance" ideology comes from your multiclass "expertise"....you have an elite mesmer design proposal in your signature, you may want to remove that before going back to your "unbiased" balance crusades ...amusing as they are to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > While desperately trying to appear as a saint...claiming your "balance" ideology comes from your multiclass "expertise"....you have an elite mesmer design proposal in your signature, you may want to remove that before going back to your "unbiased" balance crusades ...amusing as they are to read [i also made a thread proposing a rework for Spellbreaker that might allow Loss Aversion and Enchantment Collapse](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64349/spellbreakers-arent-doing-their-job-and-its-hurting-the-entire-meta "I also made a thread proposing a rework for Spellbreaker that might allow Loss Aversion and Enchantment Collapse") to live up to their potential a while back and make Spellbreaker feel more like a unique class that tears down boonheavy classes and less like plain old warrior but a bit power crept like it does now. 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Lucentfir.7430 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > @"mortrialus.3062" I think where you went wrong is disclosing that you're a mirage main. While open-minded people would view candor as bolstering credibility, the mirage-hate still runs deep, even after the latest nerf-nails in its coffin. The truly biased ones in this discussion can't see your points past the word mirage. > > @"Chaith.8256" sits here vehemently defending his class and calling you biased in order to discredit what you say, but doesn't actually address the majority of the points you make. People usually do that when you've made good points and they can't objectively counter them. Much easier to accuse bias (as if the same can't be said of oneself) and rocket boot away. Tbh while this thread is really just subjective opinion that may or may not have good points(It has a decent amount I'll say), it comes off way too knee jerk-y as a whole including how recent nerfs on mirage still are, and it seems most mirages(known mirage players) are coming out the wood works to try to reap vengeance on other classes that still hold a good spot. Though i wouldn't blame people for hating mirage either (I don't, I think 'some' of the nerfs hit the right spot) as it's a elite spec that breaks fundamental balanced class design with its mechanic, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > > > While desperately trying to appear as a saint...claiming your "balance" ideology comes from your multiclass "expertise"....you have an elite mesmer design proposal in your signature, you may want to remove that before going back to your "unbiased" balance crusades ...amusing as they are to read > > [i also made a thread proposing a rework for Spellbreaker that might allow Loss Aversion and Enchantment Collapse](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64349/spellbreakers-arent-doing-their-job-and-its-hurting-the-entire-meta "I also made a thread proposing a rework for Spellbreaker that might allow Loss Aversion and Enchantment Collapse") to live up to their potential a while back and make Spellbreaker feel more like a unique class that tears down boonheavy classes and less like plain old warrior but a bit power crept like it does now. I posted one some time ago as well, I'd even go as far as to add a bit more and nerf Attacker's Insight in trade for higher damage on Loss Aversion. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63236/suggestion-spellbreaker-boon-breaking-role#latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. Thank God anet does not agree with that ever is cooking in your mind. Because they nerfed the crap out of Condi mirage. I am so happy they Nerf the crap out of it. Good riddance. You basically want gameplay that involves consistently lacing people with Condi. With out the ability to cleanse. This makes no sense because PvP is based around holding nodes. A scourge putting circles on the node makes it impossible to play with out cleanse. You just want brain dead builds like the previous mirage where you get to apply conditions limitlessly. While having the ability to avoid damage through stealth, detarget and invunrs. It is the most braindead build there is. You literally just cycle through buttons. And because there's not much Condi cleanse with other classes they ever die or are forced to leave. Except for prot holo. Thanks God for prot holo killing braindead Condi builds like the previous Condi mirage Braindead builds like that get nerfed and it rightly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > While desperately trying to appear as a saint...claiming your "balance" ideology comes from your multiclass "expertise"....you have an elite mesmer design proposal in your signature, you may want to remove that before going back to your "unbiased" balance crusades ...amusing as they are to read I think there is no point talkinig to this guy. We need to just ignore people like this. Anet is not gonna take anything he says seriously anyway. Since it doesn't reflect actual data. Like when the entire community knew the pervious mirage was busted. He was all like na. And he wants to Nerf warrior of all things. Literally not any where near meta. It's like what ever he dies to in unranked he has to come cry about it without reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > Thank God anet does not agree with that ever is cooking in your mind. Because they nerfed the kitten out of Condi mirage. > > I am so happy they Nerf the kitten out of it. Good riddance. > > You basically want gameplay that involves consistently lacing people with Condi. With out the ability to cleanse. This makes no sense because PvP is based around holding nodes. A scourge putting circles on the node makes it impossible to play with out cleanse. > > You just want brain dead builds like the previous mirage where you get to apply conditions limitlessly. While having the ability to avoid damage through stealth, detarget and invunrs. It is the most braindead build there is. You literally just cycle through buttons. And because there's not much Condi cleanse with other classes they ever die or are forced to leave. Except for prot holo. Thanks God for prot holo killing braindead Condi builds like the previous Condi mirage > > Braindead builds like that get nerfed and it rightly did. You must be a real hoot at parties. And you call me biased and emotional. > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > > > While desperately trying to appear as a saint...claiming your "balance" ideology comes from your multiclass "expertise"....you have an elite mesmer design proposal in your signature, you may want to remove that before going back to your "unbiased" balance crusades ...amusing as they are to read > > I think there is no point talkinig to this guy. We need to just ignore people like this. Anet is not gonna take anything he says seriously anyway. Since it doesn't reflect actual data. > > Like when the entire community knew the pervious mirage was busted. **He was all like na.** [sure I was. ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/818151/#Comment_818151 "Sure I was. ") > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > I'm just going to start off saying I appreciate your more measured suggestions compared to your direct response to a certain streamer. > > I really like your suggested changes to Deceptive Decoy, a trait I hate both the idea as a percentage based save and also it's in game impact. More often than not I feel like the most it does for me during a match is interrupt my stomp attempts. I want something completely different in it's place. I think rolling it into Distortion is a good way to keep it value neutral while giving players control over it, the way I liked the idea of warrior's Defy Pain trait turning Endure Pain into a 2 charge ammo skill. > > I also really like your idea for Infinite Horizons as well. One of the things I've noticed is that not only can you just play defensively with infinite Horizons while doing damage, if you do turn around and use an ambush at the tail end of the ambush window you've created a 2 second window of nonstop attacks being thrown at the enemy player. A single ambush attack shouldn't really be creating that long of a danger period. Having one key moment where even with Infinite Horizon any ambush attack could be completely dodged would make it feel far less oppressive I think. And it hinders that more defensive play style where you can just kite and still get so much damage with clones so it's a very solid suggestion. > > In terms of changes I want to see these are the main ones these suggestions are all stuff I've written earlier so some stuff is a little incompatible with your suggestions. > > **Mirage Cloak No Longer Works while Stunned, Knocked Back, Launched, or floated. Elusive Mind does something else entirely.** > I mean come on, it's been over a year now and everyone know this is a toxic behavior especially mesmers since it's inception. > > I know for a fact it can't be a coding problem because in the engine there are tons of moments where even as a mirage you are actually stunned and prevented from dodging like in raid bosses and on certain story steps. It's a deliberate choice by the developers to keep it this way. > > **Deceptive Evasion** > Clones Spawned by Deceptive Evasion no longer spawn automatically doing their Ambush attack with Infinite Horizon. > It's a fun trait synergy, but I think it's too much with Infinite Horizon. Infinite Horizon rewards spawning and maintaining three clones at once, and with all the AoE and cleave spilling around is actually somewhat difficult. But the investment in having and maintaining clones is undercut when a dodge roll doesn't just spawn a clone, but also automatically gives you the damage is putting too much into the value of one dodge even for Mirage. Deceptive Evasion is fine, but they shouldn't ambush until the Mirage Cloak after they initially spawn. This directly impacts the chaos variant of mirage, with it's gradual but much higher sustained condition damage and 1v1 potential. > > Like I said, some stuff is incompatible with a few of your changes. I think your proposed change to Infinite Horizon makes this mute, anyway. > > **Cry of Pain** > Cry of Pain has been reverted back to Illusionary Retribution and instead of two additional stack of confusion per shatter with Cry of Frustration just apply 1 confusion per shatter for all of their shatter skills. > I think a lot of people really missed how much this trait impacted Mesmer in PvP. Just a refresher for those not in the know, it used to be Illusionary Retribution, which had all shatter skills apply confusion on shatter until the phantasm rework. The end result is that a 3 Clone Mind Wrack or Distraction would both apply 4 stacks of confusion, and a three clone Cry of Frustration would apply 8 stacks of confusion. However, during the Phantasm rework last February they switched it so that it now gives Cry of Frustration 2 additional stacks of confusion, front loading ALL of the Mesmer's potential Confusion shatter output into just one shatter. Now Cry of Frustration on it's own if it lands is 12 stacks of confusion just right there and that doesn't even count Blinding Disipation+Ineptitude. And cry of Frustration's confusion stacks last 33% longer. This made Illusions condi mirage FAR burstier than it had been previously. This along side confusion being altered to do almost no damage per second and all of it's damage on skill activation is why suddenly condition mirages were melting people so, so hard after the phantasm rework. > > I'm personally fine with confusion doing large amounts of damage on skill activation, I like it from both a game play and flavor perspective, but Cry of Pain front loads too much. Cry of Frustration should clearly be a condition mesmer's bread and butter, but spreading the condition application out so that it requires more successful comboing of shatters to reap the benefits of it would be much healthier than what we have now. > > I know Chaos is currently favored right now, but make no mistake Illusions is also very strong and it wouldn't take too much nerfing to make people primarily run Illusions and when they do I think this change will be important. > > **Axes of Symmetry** > I think your choice for a nerf is okay. > > Personally I would just nerf the confusion stacks to PvE levels (Three from Player for those not in the know), remove the detarget. Bump the cooldown up to 15 seconds base 12 seconds traited maybe a bit more so it's not 100% a certainty that it will be up every weapon swap. > > **Jaunt** > I actually want to damage and condition removed from this skill. I know a lot of mesmers poke fun at a certain streamer for him talking about it doing "FOUR THINGS!" and I know Jaunt isn't exactly blowing people up anymore (2k crits on Power Mirage at POF release were hilarious though. I sniped a lot of kills with that). I just philosophically dislike and disagree with instant cast damage like this and would rather see the damage gone just from a philosophical level. Keep condition cleanse, movement and it's lack of true stunbreak, revert it back to 3 ammo with a 20 second cooldown again after this. > > After that, I really don't want too much else touched until condition cleanses and condition damage spreads are normalized at which point I would have a ton of changes I would like to see with mesmer and mirage in specific. I've gone into this topic enough times so I'm not going to copy and paste it again here as this post is still loo long. Like I would personally prefer to see all classes including mesmers only really have Confusion and Torment as their primary damaging conditions and for condition damage to actually be a thing where you build up damage stacks on enemies over time bit by bit 1 stack, 2 stacks, 5 stacks, 7 stacks, 10 stacks, and up and up. But with how over tuned condition cleanses with a majority of classes are being able to shake of 5+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a fight, unless you shot gun someone with 3 damaging conditions and three covering conditions they're functionally indestructible. It's why only condition mirage and condition scourge are even viable now. Mirage has so much variety in damaging stacks and cover conditions, and scourge has a solid variety and access to potentially all conditions through boon corrupt. > > In general I would prefer mesmers of all stripes to win matches more through their unique team and solo utility rather than their ability to slam down kills. Stuff like Portal, Illusion of Life, Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Signet of Humility and Mass invisibility should be lynchpins of mesmer success across all builds in ranked and AT. But Portal was nerfed and everything else interesting is outright bad aside from Arcane Thievery. It should be a cerebral high skill cap class. But portal was nerfed so condition slammer it is I guess. > > I really want something done with out Elite Skills that aren't jaunt. Like Mass Invisibility, Signet of Humility and Time Warp. The toolbelt skill for engineer's Elixir S is a 5 second stealth so it's just as long as Mass Invis, it's has a 75% faster cast time and 66% faster cooldown and it's always going to be run traited. The only thing Mass Invisibility has over it is that the pulse is in a wide area around the mesmer which when you want to stealth an ally like to prevent a stomp or something isn't even that helpful compared to how freaking fast Toss Elixir S is and how much more useful the extremely fast cast time is. Like I know classes are going to have inherent symmetries and that you can't always compare X skill or trait to Y skill or trait, but really why is the engineer bonus for picking an already best in slot utility skill a better version of one of our elites in literally every way that matters? You literally cannot stop making things up about me. And that's just one thread! Even a cursory glance would show tons of suggested nerfs to mirage over the months in most threads about the build. And you couldn't be bothered to look and instead decided to just make things up about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > > > Thank God anet does not agree with that ever is cooking in your mind. Because they nerfed the kitten out of Condi mirage. > > > > I am so happy they Nerf the kitten out of it. Good riddance. > > > > You basically want gameplay that involves consistently lacing people with Condi. With out the ability to cleanse. This makes no sense because PvP is based around holding nodes. A scourge putting circles on the node makes it impossible to play with out cleanse. > > > > You just want brain dead builds like the previous mirage where you get to apply conditions limitlessly. While having the ability to avoid damage through stealth, detarget and invunrs. It is the most braindead build there is. You literally just cycle through buttons. And because there's not much Condi cleanse with other classes they ever die or are forced to leave. Except for prot holo. Thanks God for prot holo killing braindead Condi builds like the previous Condi mirage > > > > Braindead builds like that get nerfed and it rightly did. > > You must be a real hoot at parties. And you call me biased and emotional. > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > > > > > While desperately trying to appear as a saint...claiming your "balance" ideology comes from your multiclass "expertise"....you have an elite mesmer design proposal in your signature, you may want to remove that before going back to your "unbiased" balance crusades ...amusing as they are to read > > > > I think there is no point talkinig to this guy. We need to just ignore people like this. Anet is not gonna take anything he says seriously anyway. Since it doesn't reflect actual data. > > > > Like when the entire community knew the pervious mirage was busted. **He was all like na.** > > [sure I was. ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/818151/#Comment_818151 "Sure I was. ") > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > I'm just going to start off saying I appreciate your more measured suggestions compared to your direct response to a certain streamer. > > > > I really like your suggested changes to Deceptive Decoy, a trait I hate both the idea as a percentage based save and also it's in game impact. More often than not I feel like the most it does for me during a match is interrupt my stomp attempts. I want something completely different in it's place. I think rolling it into Distortion is a good way to keep it value neutral while giving players control over it, the way I liked the idea of warrior's Defy Pain trait turning Endure Pain into a 2 charge ammo skill. > > > > I also really like your idea for Infinite Horizons as well. One of the things I've noticed is that not only can you just play defensively with infinite Horizons while doing damage, if you do turn around and use an ambush at the tail end of the ambush window you've created a 2 second window of nonstop attacks being thrown at the enemy player. A single ambush attack shouldn't really be creating that long of a danger period. Having one key moment where even with Infinite Horizon any ambush attack could be completely dodged would make it feel far less oppressive I think. And it hinders that more defensive play style where you can just kite and still get so much damage with clones so it's a very solid suggestion. > > > > In terms of changes I want to see these are the main ones these suggestions are all stuff I've written earlier so some stuff is a little incompatible with your suggestions. > > > > **Mirage Cloak No Longer Works while Stunned, Knocked Back, Launched, or floated. Elusive Mind does something else entirely.** > > I mean come on, it's been over a year now and everyone know this is a toxic behavior especially mesmers since it's inception. > > > > I know for a fact it can't be a coding problem because in the engine there are tons of moments where even as a mirage you are actually stunned and prevented from dodging like in raid bosses and on certain story steps. It's a deliberate choice by the developers to keep it this way. > > > > **Deceptive Evasion** > > Clones Spawned by Deceptive Evasion no longer spawn automatically doing their Ambush attack with Infinite Horizon. > > It's a fun trait synergy, but I think it's too much with Infinite Horizon. Infinite Horizon rewards spawning and maintaining three clones at once, and with all the AoE and cleave spilling around is actually somewhat difficult. But the investment in having and maintaining clones is undercut when a dodge roll doesn't just spawn a clone, but also automatically gives you the damage is putting too much into the value of one dodge even for Mirage. Deceptive Evasion is fine, but they shouldn't ambush until the Mirage Cloak after they initially spawn. This directly impacts the chaos variant of mirage, with it's gradual but much higher sustained condition damage and 1v1 potential. > > > > Like I said, some stuff is incompatible with a few of your changes. I think your proposed change to Infinite Horizon makes this mute, anyway. > > > > **Cry of Pain** > > Cry of Pain has been reverted back to Illusionary Retribution and instead of two additional stack of confusion per shatter with Cry of Frustration just apply 1 confusion per shatter for all of their shatter skills. > > I think a lot of people really missed how much this trait impacted Mesmer in PvP. Just a refresher for those not in the know, it used to be Illusionary Retribution, which had all shatter skills apply confusion on shatter until the phantasm rework. The end result is that a 3 Clone Mind Wrack or Distraction would both apply 4 stacks of confusion, and a three clone Cry of Frustration would apply 8 stacks of confusion. However, during the Phantasm rework last February they switched it so that it now gives Cry of Frustration 2 additional stacks of confusion, front loading ALL of the Mesmer's potential Confusion shatter output into just one shatter. Now Cry of Frustration on it's own if it lands is 12 stacks of confusion just right there and that doesn't even count Blinding Disipation+Ineptitude. And cry of Frustration's confusion stacks last 33% longer. This made Illusions condi mirage FAR burstier than it had been previously. This along side confusion being altered to do almost no damage per second and all of it's damage on skill activation is why suddenly condition mirages were melting people so, so hard after the phantasm rework. > > > > I'm personally fine with confusion doing large amounts of damage on skill activation, I like it from both a game play and flavor perspective, but Cry of Pain front loads too much. Cry of Frustration should clearly be a condition mesmer's bread and butter, but spreading the condition application out so that it requires more successful comboing of shatters to reap the benefits of it would be much healthier than what we have now. > > > > I know Chaos is currently favored right now, but make no mistake Illusions is also very strong and it wouldn't take too much nerfing to make people primarily run Illusions and when they do I think this change will be important. > > > > **Axes of Symmetry** > > I think your choice for a nerf is okay. > > > > Personally I would just nerf the confusion stacks to PvE levels (Three from Player for those not in the know), remove the detarget. Bump the cooldown up to 15 seconds base 12 seconds traited maybe a bit more so it's not 100% a certainty that it will be up every weapon swap. > > > > **Jaunt** > > I actually want to damage and condition removed from this skill. I know a lot of mesmers poke fun at a certain streamer for him talking about it doing "FOUR THINGS!" and I know Jaunt isn't exactly blowing people up anymore (2k crits on Power Mirage at POF release were hilarious though. I sniped a lot of kills with that). I just philosophically dislike and disagree with instant cast damage like this and would rather see the damage gone just from a philosophical level. Keep condition cleanse, movement and it's lack of true stunbreak, revert it back to 3 ammo with a 20 second cooldown again after this. > > > > After that, I really don't want too much else touched until condition cleanses and condition damage spreads are normalized at which point I would have a ton of changes I would like to see with mesmer and mirage in specific. I've gone into this topic enough times so I'm not going to copy and paste it again here as this post is still loo long. Like I would personally prefer to see all classes including mesmers only really have Confusion and Torment as their primary damaging conditions and for condition damage to actually be a thing where you build up damage stacks on enemies over time bit by bit 1 stack, 2 stacks, 5 stacks, 7 stacks, 10 stacks, and up and up. But with how over tuned condition cleanses with a majority of classes are being able to shake of 5+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a fight, unless you shot gun someone with 3 damaging conditions and three covering conditions they're functionally indestructible. It's why only condition mirage and condition scourge are even viable now. Mirage has so much variety in damaging stacks and cover conditions, and scourge has a solid variety and access to potentially all conditions through boon corrupt. > > > > In general I would prefer mesmers of all stripes to win matches more through their unique team and solo utility rather than their ability to slam down kills. Stuff like Portal, Illusion of Life, Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Signet of Humility and Mass invisibility should be lynchpins of mesmer success across all builds in ranked and AT. But Portal was nerfed and everything else interesting is outright bad aside from Arcane Thievery. It should be a cerebral high skill cap class. But portal was nerfed so condition slammer it is I guess. > > > > I really want something done with out Elite Skills that aren't jaunt. Like Mass Invisibility, Signet of Humility and Time Warp. The toolbelt skill for engineer's Elixir S is a 5 second stealth so it's just as long as Mass Invis, it's has a 75% faster cast time and 66% faster cooldown and it's always going to be run traited. The only thing Mass Invisibility has over it is that the pulse is in a wide area around the mesmer which when you want to stealth an ally like to prevent a stomp or something isn't even that helpful compared to how freaking fast Toss Elixir S is and how much more useful the extremely fast cast time is. Like I know classes are going to have inherent symmetries and that you can't always compare X skill or trait to Y skill or trait, but really why is the engineer bonus for picking an already best in slot utility skill a better version of one of our elites in literally every way that matters? > > You literally cannot stop making things up about me. And that's just one thread! Even a cursory glance would show tons of suggested nerfs to mirage over the months in most threads about the build. And you couldn't be bothered to look and instead decided to just make things up about me. Yup totally truth death to Condi message. Nerf Nerf Nerf! 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FyzE.3472 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Why do we have a 3 page long "I don't like everything that kills me" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > Why do we have a 3 page long "I don't like everything that kills me" thread? Three pages of can't read past 'mirage', you mean. Mirage is so OP people can't even see through its visual clutter on the forums, pls nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. this would be very interesting to try out. maybe aside form the 1-2 damaging condis there could be some burst stacks, for example 5 stacks of poison at 2 sec or something like that. condi and boon conversion would also have to be redone and nerfed (it should be anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. Tbh I dont think any thief worth their salt is going to absolutely die if DaggerStorm didnt recharge by improvisation either. We've made do with less before. If making daggerstorm unrechargable by steal is mandatory, I'm fine with that too. Shave a couple seconds off the recharge though; just remember basi venom and shadow meld are also good elites. If you make DS too unappealing you're gonna have thieves dropping in on you with stuns when you're at half HP again and just immediately leaving with shadow meld instead of spending 4 seconds being visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > > > > > Thank God anet does not agree with that ever is cooking in your mind. Because they nerfed the kitten out of Condi mirage. > > > > > > I am so happy they Nerf the kitten out of it. Good riddance. > > > > > > You basically want gameplay that involves consistently lacing people with Condi. With out the ability to cleanse. This makes no sense because PvP is based around holding nodes. A scourge putting circles on the node makes it impossible to play with out cleanse. > > > > > > You just want brain dead builds like the previous mirage where you get to apply conditions limitlessly. While having the ability to avoid damage through stealth, detarget and invunrs. It is the most braindead build there is. You literally just cycle through buttons. And because there's not much Condi cleanse with other classes they ever die or are forced to leave. Except for prot holo. Thanks God for prot holo killing braindead Condi builds like the previous Condi mirage > > > > > > Braindead builds like that get nerfed and it rightly did. > > > > You must be a real hoot at parties. And you call me biased and emotional. > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"TorQ.7041" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 14 [Dagger Storm](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger_Storm "Dagger Storm") > > > > > > > > > > > > > Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal. > > > > > > > > > > > > I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The recharge is random. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure dagger storm is a bit strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't say that. I specifically talked about the random interactions of the skill, specifically it's interaction with Improvisation and the projectiles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally all I said was I hate the randomness of improvisation and the random projectiles. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warrior and spellbreaker are the builds I have the second most amount of play time on, totaling 1,501 games at the moment. Landing magebane tether is not hard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's funny how you quickly you go around, putting words in my mouth I didn't say, accuse me of not multiclassing and completely and deliberately misinterpret a part of my post to prove your point. You sure do seem like a big tough guy, knocking all those men made of straw down. > > > > > > > > > > > > Landing thether is not hard when there's lots of aoe sure. But in a 1v1 which is where the warrior should be. Don't hit into full counter? Like seriously...it's not hard to see a warrior has fc up and just wait it out. Also even if it hits. It can pull you. Ok. But it's not game ending, it does a whooping 300 dmg at most. Wow that's so much dmg. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's seriously not overpowered what so ever and no one is complaining about warrior at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > **Yes I am assuming you either don't muti class or you don't play them at a high ranked level other than your main.** Since you are specifically complaining about skills that work against your main which seems to be Condi mirage. Things from Condi removal to Condi dmg. And I think your opinion is unfairly biased. > > > > > > As with every single post you make. Just like others have pointed out here > > > > > > > > > > Well you know what they say about assumptions. Again, 1500 games on warrior. > > > > > > > > > > You still can't even admit "Maybe having a random utility type recharged on steal is level of randomness that in general is unhealthy for a PvP game mode." I thought we all hated RNG based stuff they've spent years culling out of the game bit by bit as well as all the passive automatic saves like Endure Pain and the old version of Automatic Elixir S. And yet I'm the biased one when you keep putting words in my mouth, accusing me of saying things I never said and advocated for things I didn't advocate for. > > > > > > > > > > If you step back and look at your own biases, the fact that Condition Mirage and Scourge are the _only_ viable condition damage builds, and 7/9 other classes run power almost exclusively points towards _something_ being broken about the power level discrepancy between power and condition damage builds not involving necromancer and mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > My general thoughts have been for a while that all condition kits on all classes should have their primary spread of damaging conditions condensed into 1-2 conditions as well as limiting the spread of nondamaging conditions. The way all condition classes should look should be similar to a condition firebrand, if you've tried it. They don't have a lot of conditions, just lots of burning and a bit of bleeding. And so when they fire an opponent they don't hit you with a brick wall of every condition in the game, but they ramp up burning and up and up. 1 stack, 3 stacks, 7 stacks, 12 stacks, 18 stacks. Unfortunately, with how cleanses cleanses are power crept their damage out put just doesn't stick to anything you'll see running around in ranked right now. I think on a philosophical level condition damage classes including mirage, should operate like this and condition cleanses should be toned down so that this type of play is competitive with power damage. > > > > > > > > > > The things in my OP don't impact mirage they impact every build in the game that goes up against them. > > > > > > > > While desperately trying to appear as a saint...claiming your "balance" ideology comes from your multiclass "expertise"....you have an elite mesmer design proposal in your signature, you may want to remove that before going back to your "unbiased" balance crusades ...amusing as they are to read > > > > > > I think there is no point talkinig to this guy. We need to just ignore people like this. Anet is not gonna take anything he says seriously anyway. Since it doesn't reflect actual data. > > > > > > Like when the entire community knew the pervious mirage was busted. **He was all like na.** > > > > [sure I was. ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/818151/#Comment_818151 "Sure I was. ") > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > I'm just going to start off saying I appreciate your more measured suggestions compared to your direct response to a certain streamer. > > > > > > I really like your suggested changes to Deceptive Decoy, a trait I hate both the idea as a percentage based save and also it's in game impact. More often than not I feel like the most it does for me during a match is interrupt my stomp attempts. I want something completely different in it's place. I think rolling it into Distortion is a good way to keep it value neutral while giving players control over it, the way I liked the idea of warrior's Defy Pain trait turning Endure Pain into a 2 charge ammo skill. > > > > > > I also really like your idea for Infinite Horizons as well. One of the things I've noticed is that not only can you just play defensively with infinite Horizons while doing damage, if you do turn around and use an ambush at the tail end of the ambush window you've created a 2 second window of nonstop attacks being thrown at the enemy player. A single ambush attack shouldn't really be creating that long of a danger period. Having one key moment where even with Infinite Horizon any ambush attack could be completely dodged would make it feel far less oppressive I think. And it hinders that more defensive play style where you can just kite and still get so much damage with clones so it's a very solid suggestion. > > > > > > In terms of changes I want to see these are the main ones these suggestions are all stuff I've written earlier so some stuff is a little incompatible with your suggestions. > > > > > > **Mirage Cloak No Longer Works while Stunned, Knocked Back, Launched, or floated. Elusive Mind does something else entirely.** > > > I mean come on, it's been over a year now and everyone know this is a toxic behavior especially mesmers since it's inception. > > > > > > I know for a fact it can't be a coding problem because in the engine there are tons of moments where even as a mirage you are actually stunned and prevented from dodging like in raid bosses and on certain story steps. It's a deliberate choice by the developers to keep it this way. > > > > > > **Deceptive Evasion** > > > Clones Spawned by Deceptive Evasion no longer spawn automatically doing their Ambush attack with Infinite Horizon. > > > It's a fun trait synergy, but I think it's too much with Infinite Horizon. Infinite Horizon rewards spawning and maintaining three clones at once, and with all the AoE and cleave spilling around is actually somewhat difficult. But the investment in having and maintaining clones is undercut when a dodge roll doesn't just spawn a clone, but also automatically gives you the damage is putting too much into the value of one dodge even for Mirage. Deceptive Evasion is fine, but they shouldn't ambush until the Mirage Cloak after they initially spawn. This directly impacts the chaos variant of mirage, with it's gradual but much higher sustained condition damage and 1v1 potential. > > > > > > Like I said, some stuff is incompatible with a few of your changes. I think your proposed change to Infinite Horizon makes this mute, anyway. > > > > > > **Cry of Pain** > > > Cry of Pain has been reverted back to Illusionary Retribution and instead of two additional stack of confusion per shatter with Cry of Frustration just apply 1 confusion per shatter for all of their shatter skills. > > > I think a lot of people really missed how much this trait impacted Mesmer in PvP. Just a refresher for those not in the know, it used to be Illusionary Retribution, which had all shatter skills apply confusion on shatter until the phantasm rework. The end result is that a 3 Clone Mind Wrack or Distraction would both apply 4 stacks of confusion, and a three clone Cry of Frustration would apply 8 stacks of confusion. However, during the Phantasm rework last February they switched it so that it now gives Cry of Frustration 2 additional stacks of confusion, front loading ALL of the Mesmer's potential Confusion shatter output into just one shatter. Now Cry of Frustration on it's own if it lands is 12 stacks of confusion just right there and that doesn't even count Blinding Disipation+Ineptitude. And cry of Frustration's confusion stacks last 33% longer. This made Illusions condi mirage FAR burstier than it had been previously. This along side confusion being altered to do almost no damage per second and all of it's damage on skill activation is why suddenly condition mirages were melting people so, so hard after the phantasm rework. > > > > > > I'm personally fine with confusion doing large amounts of damage on skill activation, I like it from both a game play and flavor perspective, but Cry of Pain front loads too much. Cry of Frustration should clearly be a condition mesmer's bread and butter, but spreading the condition application out so that it requires more successful comboing of shatters to reap the benefits of it would be much healthier than what we have now. > > > > > > I know Chaos is currently favored right now, but make no mistake Illusions is also very strong and it wouldn't take too much nerfing to make people primarily run Illusions and when they do I think this change will be important. > > > > > > **Axes of Symmetry** > > > I think your choice for a nerf is okay. > > > > > > Personally I would just nerf the confusion stacks to PvE levels (Three from Player for those not in the know), remove the detarget. Bump the cooldown up to 15 seconds base 12 seconds traited maybe a bit more so it's not 100% a certainty that it will be up every weapon swap. > > > > > > **Jaunt** > > > I actually want to damage and condition removed from this skill. I know a lot of mesmers poke fun at a certain streamer for him talking about it doing "FOUR THINGS!" and I know Jaunt isn't exactly blowing people up anymore (2k crits on Power Mirage at POF release were hilarious though. I sniped a lot of kills with that). I just philosophically dislike and disagree with instant cast damage like this and would rather see the damage gone just from a philosophical level. Keep condition cleanse, movement and it's lack of true stunbreak, revert it back to 3 ammo with a 20 second cooldown again after this. > > > > > > After that, I really don't want too much else touched until condition cleanses and condition damage spreads are normalized at which point I would have a ton of changes I would like to see with mesmer and mirage in specific. I've gone into this topic enough times so I'm not going to copy and paste it again here as this post is still loo long. Like I would personally prefer to see all classes including mesmers only really have Confusion and Torment as their primary damaging conditions and for condition damage to actually be a thing where you build up damage stacks on enemies over time bit by bit 1 stack, 2 stacks, 5 stacks, 7 stacks, 10 stacks, and up and up. But with how over tuned condition cleanses with a majority of classes are being able to shake of 5+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a fight, unless you shot gun someone with 3 damaging conditions and three covering conditions they're functionally indestructible. It's why only condition mirage and condition scourge are even viable now. Mirage has so much variety in damaging stacks and cover conditions, and scourge has a solid variety and access to potentially all conditions through boon corrupt. > > > > > > In general I would prefer mesmers of all stripes to win matches more through their unique team and solo utility rather than their ability to slam down kills. Stuff like Portal, Illusion of Life, Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Signet of Humility and Mass invisibility should be lynchpins of mesmer success across all builds in ranked and AT. But Portal was nerfed and everything else interesting is outright bad aside from Arcane Thievery. It should be a cerebral high skill cap class. But portal was nerfed so condition slammer it is I guess. > > > > > > I really want something done with out Elite Skills that aren't jaunt. Like Mass Invisibility, Signet of Humility and Time Warp. The toolbelt skill for engineer's Elixir S is a 5 second stealth so it's just as long as Mass Invis, it's has a 75% faster cast time and 66% faster cooldown and it's always going to be run traited. The only thing Mass Invisibility has over it is that the pulse is in a wide area around the mesmer which when you want to stealth an ally like to prevent a stomp or something isn't even that helpful compared to how freaking fast Toss Elixir S is and how much more useful the extremely fast cast time is. Like I know classes are going to have inherent symmetries and that you can't always compare X skill or trait to Y skill or trait, but really why is the engineer bonus for picking an already best in slot utility skill a better version of one of our elites in literally every way that matters? > > > > You literally cannot stop making things up about me. And that's just one thread! Even a cursory glance would show tons of suggested nerfs to mirage over the months in most threads about the build. And you couldn't be bothered to look and instead decided to just make things up about me. > > Yup totally truth death to Condi message. Nerf Nerf Nerf! That's pretty much the queue not to read/take seriously anything _you_ say. As in, you keep spitting bullkitten, making up stuff that OP proves you wrong on, so you've nothing left but some flippant last words (above). Also, it's clear you simply want condition damage deleted from the game (as if it's widely viable now). Sounds like you just want to nerf what kills you and you dislike. Much like what you and others accuse OP of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > That's the _problem_. I actually can't believe how many people are defending pure RNG so vehemently. > > Tbh I dont think any thief worth their salt is going to absolutely die if DaggerStorm didnt recharge by improvisation either. > We've made do with less before. If making daggerstorm unrechargable by steal is mandatory, I'm fine with that too. > > Shave a couple seconds off the recharge though; just remember basi venom and shadow meld are also good elites. If you make DS too unappealing you're gonna have thieves dropping in on you with stuns when you're at half HP again and just immediately leaving with shadow meld instead of spending 4 seconds being visible. > Again, my problem with Dagger Storm is really more that Improvisation introduces far too much RNG for a competitive game mode than Dagger Storm itself. It's just Dagger Storm is the absolute worst thing to see recharged with Improvisation. Improvisation should be something like "Recharge all utility skills by 20% when you steal. Internal Cooldown 20 seconds" than randomly recharge one category of utility skills by 100%. It keeps the spirit of the skill, is far less random, is consistently good even if you don't run a specific type of utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > "Recharge all utility skills by 20% when you steal. Internal Cooldown 20 seconds" 20% of the full CD? Sure~ I'd love to have my assassin signet back early to pop you again lel I get what you're saying though. I've never really been for the current state of improvisation, but it's been consistent enough during my use to be worth at least considering. Just beware, I don't quite agree that the above suggestion is keeping in theme with the trait. There's more improvisation in "oh kitten my basi is back up" compared to "If I steal right now my heal will be back up in X seconds, so I don't need to worry about dodging this move." It's a double edged sword. Sure it leads to some jank occasionally but I wouldn't go so far as to say making it more stable makes it anything other than less improvisatory. Daggerstorm is included with that. there's like a 16-20 % chance of thieves being obnoxious in any fight by getting double daggerstorm, and though I admit I am biased because I play thief pretty often, I would venture so far as saying that if a thief is on you for more than 8 seconds and you aren't dead, he or she has overstayed their welcome and is handicapping their team if they aren't sitting on a point they own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > "Recharge all utility skills by 20% when you steal. Internal Cooldown 20 seconds" > > 20% of the full CD? > Sure~ I'd love to have my assassin signet back early to pop you again lel > I get what you're saying though. I've never really been for the current state of improvisation, but it's been consistent enough during my use to be worth at least considering. > > Just beware, I don't quite agree that the above suggestion is keeping in theme with the trait. There's more improvisation in "oh kitten my basi is back up" compared to "If I steal right now my heal will be back up in X seconds, so I don't need to worry about dodging this move." > It's a double edged sword. Sure it leads to some jank occasionally but I wouldn't go so far as to say making it more stable makes it anything other than less improvisatory. > > Always getting 4 seconds back On Assassin's Signet when you land a steal vs. Sometimes getting all 20 seconds back. Always getting 18 seconds back on Dagger Storm vs Sometimes Recharging it 100% to use it back to back. And then 20 seconds later maybe getting it back again. I would absolutely take the less random version for game balance every time. Plus while as a thief the fun of getting double Dagger Storm might go away, there is a lot of value knowing that even if you don't use traps, or venoms, you're still always getting benefit for the utilities you do use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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