Warclaw Praise Thread - Yes, It Is Healthy For WvW

[alain.1659]

Our experiences and what we see in in-game seems to differ greately. I have been in wvw for quite some time (4 years or so) and played several different professions. So please do not take my words as a mere complain after a lost camp.

 

What I was telling was true but harsh. I still contest points with warclaw easily until reinforcements arrive. But it should not be there. At least it should be fixed properly. I agree that people are having different builds and it is fun. But in my opinion, like many things anet introduce, it was hastily done without adjusting a proper balance at all.

Thanks for having a civilized discussion on this. We might not agree on this but at least I will consider what you said with an open mind when I am playing, and hope you all would do the same.

 

See you on reset :)

[UmbraNoctis.1907]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > Being able to pick fights was the only advantage of roamers and neccessary to handle outnumbered situations.

>

> Partially disagree. Your scenario only currently applies while the roamer is in enemy territory. In friendly territory, your warclaw runs faster than that of your opponent, so again, you can get away in an outnumbered situation.

> In enemy territory? Yeah, you're going to be at a disadvantage in the scenario described above, but then, I've also witnessed several times, enemy players (Mesmers/Thieves/Engineers/Eles/Rangers) fleeing an outnumbered fight and escape/evading, either through mobility skills, stealth skills, or a combination of the two.

> The roamer aslo remains at an advantage when you are trying to chase down an enemy player In your territory, provided of course they can dismount them.

>

You are only looking at this from a mounted vs mounted situation, which is pointless, because mounted players aren't doing anything other than running.

I've already stated why the mount is an issue when fighting! outnumbered as (solo) roamer, so i'm just going to quote myself:

 

"Mobility is only worth something if it gives an advantage over others. Certain classes weren't dominating the solo roaming scene because they were fast. It was because they were faster. Which allowed them to disengage, kite and eventually split up chasing enemies into more manageable "portions".

The mount takes away the tool of solo/small scale players to handle outnumbered fights, while at the same time giving zerglings a free pass.

 

And even when i can get on the mount and run away from others, it is just incredibly boring. Kiting on foot was much more fun, because even with a mobility advantage i had to be very careful to not get caught. Now escaping/kiting unmounted is close to impossible to do (feels even worse than solo roaming on reaper), while getting away on the mount is trivial. It is completely dumbed down gameplay."

 

Mobility was about more than just running away.

 

> > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > The mount takes away from the roamers without compensation and gives to the zerglings without any trade-off.

>

> I agree, but what is so frustrating is that, in my opinion, roamers don't seem to understand/acknowledge that pre-warclaw, the game was NOT on an even footing.

> It isn't as if pre-warclaw it was Roamers - 100% / Everyone else - 100%, and now with the warclaw it's Roamers - 80% / Everyone else - 120%.

>

> Those who played the high mobility roaming builds had an advantage over every other build out there. In essence pre-warclaw it was Roamers - 120% / Everyone else - 80%

>

> So I completely agree that the warclaw took from roamers and gave to everyone else, only now, both are at 100%

>

> In other words: balanced.

>

Roamers had an advantage over zerglings in one single scenario and that was when the zergling was alone. And running arround alone can be avoided easily by coordination and actual teamplay. Even pre mount zergs were the "main force" of WvW, so don't try to tell me the game was in any form dominated by roamers. That's utter nonsense.

 

> I'd also like to add that it's well and cute that roamers want to make this all a "roamers" vs "zergling" issue, always of course denigrating the "zergling", but hey, at least nobody has accused all people who zerg of being alt-right Trump supporters, so we haven't circled the drain completely yet.

 

Did i say anything insulting about zerglings? If yes, i'm sorry and please point it out so i can delete it. If no, then please don't put words in my mouth or imply stuff i never said or meant.

 

>But nobody seems to want to acknowledge that there are roamers who like the Warclaw. There are roamers who now can run different builds, different runes, or different professions now with the warclaw, and that has been a positive change for them.

>

The warclaw doesn't improve the fighting capabilities of builds, so at most it is beneficial for "PvE roamers" who just want to cap stuff without fighting other players.

I mean, i'd love to have a good necro roaming build (necro/reaper is actually my second most played class- and yes, i did solo roam on it), but the mount doesn't do anything to improve the roaming capabilities of necros, because mere travelling arround was/is not the issue with the class and getting somewhere a bit faster or slower was not the deciding factor. It just got worse for every one else, so relatively seen necro might appear to be better now. But it is still the exact same sitting duck once caught unmounted. Which inevitably happens as a roamer.

 

> > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> >Which indirectly worsens issues even many zerglings are complaining about, such as lag, PvD, "empty" maps, server stacking and population imbalance.

>

> The lag is certainly an issue, but given how the mount won't be going anywhere ever, I see no point in bringing it up; rather it is now up to ANET to find a technical solution, as will it is worse now with the warclaw, skill lag has always been present, and should have been addressed a long time ago.

>

> As for PvD, empty maps, server stacking and population imbalance....are we going to start saying now that the warclaw is responsible for climate change and for Hilary Clinton losing the 2016 election as well? Sorry, unless you can provide more detail on how you can attribute the warclaw to any of those issues, you're just reaching.

>

The mount favours zergs/numbers. More zerglings means bigger zergs (because there aren't enough commanders for more zergs). Bigger zergs result in more lag and i doubt there will ever be a fix for this. More players stacked at one spot also means, less players everywhere else = most of the map will be empty, even when queued. So most objectives will be undefended, because a single zerg can only cover one at a time, leaving everything else free to be pvdoored.

And when your server doesn't field a zerg big enough to deal with the enemy zerg and there isn't anyone else to fight due to less roaming and small scale, then PvD, quitting or joining a "better" server are the only options. Because i doubt there are many who enjoy getting run over again and again.

 

Edit:

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

>

> 2. Players have reported they like WvW more now with the mount, roamers, zerglings, PvEers, and everyone in between. The vocal posters tend to be the negative ones, so the majority of posts we see on these forums are from people saying this killed the game for them. That doesn't mean the Warclaw is 'bad', since we aren't hearing from all the players the mount has brought / returned to the game mode. In any case, the mount is here, it won't be going anywhere. The discussion should be about how to balance the mount, not whether it should be here or not. Those stuck in that groove should just either quit the game, or start making posts about "GW2 Vanilla servers"

 

You are right, we don't exactly know how many actually like and dislike the mount and how many quit or joined the game nor is the mount ever going away.

However, i don't see how the mount would attract new players. They won't have access to it initially, which puts them at a bigger disadvantage than previously, and usually new players join a PvP game mode for the PvP aspect, something that hasn't improved by the mount (very rarely i saw completely new players trying to avoid me, they usually charge fearless into every fight, even if they stand no chance - but they often want to fight and learn).

So what it does is drawing in players from other game modes (mostly PvE i guess). But those players were already playing the game, and just making them switch modes at the expense of others quitting the game entirely is not what i would consider a gain, even if the quitting players are a minority.

 

[everyman.4375]

If you realy think any class can dismount a warclaw you clearly never played anything else than soulbeast, because this is just wrong.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> @"Dami.5046" - because arms race.

>

> Race, get it? Mounts? Haha...

>

> Anyway, once they hit, anyone not getting them was going to be behind. Which was the plan. Sell Gems and get those last few WvW holdouts who had not bought PoF to pony up the cash.

 

This.

 

I do not care for the mount in wvw, play significantly less because of it, but have it because without it I would be left behind.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

The best part about warclaw by far is insta-killing downed roaming roamers or roaming groups. Many of these small scare groups almost always rely on that plague of a mechanic called "downed state". Always put a smile on my face to pounce on the known roamers, instantly killing them the second they are downed. Then rinsing and repeating if they come back for more.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> The warclaw doesn't improve the fighting capabilities of builds, so at most it is beneficial for "PvE roamers" who just want to cap stuff without fighting other players.

> I mean, i'd love to have a good necro roaming build (necro/reaper is actually my second most played class- and yes, i did solo roam on it), but the mount doesn't do anything to improve the roaming capabilities of necros, because mere travelling arround was/is not the issue with the class and getting somewhere a bit faster or slower was not the deciding factor. It just got worse for every one else, so relatively seen necro might appear to be better now. But it is still the exact same sitting duck once caught unmounted. Which inevitably happens as a roamer.

 

This is objectively false.

 

Being able to move around quickly so you can get ahead of the enemy *is* literally roaming and the warclaw **without a doubt improve that**. There's only one single type of class that isnt slower and that's daredevil full mobility builds. Everyone else gain by it. And even there one can argue its far easier to just mount up than swapping to shortbow and start teleporting by cycling every skill you got.

[UmbraNoctis.1907]

But everyone moves quicker, so you can not get ahead of the enemy, if he moves at the same speed. And ofc running away mounted is far easier, which is one thing i dislike (and i already mentioned this). If i wanted easymode gamplay, i could just join a zerg.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> But everyone moves quicker, so you can not get ahead of the enemy, if he moves at the same speed. And ofc running away mounted is far easier, which is one thing i dislike (and i already mentioned this). If i wanted easymode gamplay, i could just join a zerg.

Yes you can. For starters the enemy mounts run slower in your territory, but also there is a reason why intercepting is not the same thing as simply trying to catch up.

 

Otherwise you are implying that no one ever caught up to anyone pre-mount, because we where hardcapped in running speed and couldnt possibly get ahead of other players.

 

If you want hardmode gameplay, then how about you just not using the mount? If you say no well then you admit you need them to get ahead of enemies sooooo...

[UmbraNoctis.1907]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> > But everyone moves quicker, so you can not get ahead of the enemy, if he moves at the same speed. And ofc running away mounted is far easier, which is one thing i dislike (and i already mentioned this). If i wanted easymode gamplay, i could just join a zerg.

> Yes you can. For starters the enemy mounts run slower in your territory, but also there is a reason why intercepting is not the same thing as simply trying to catch up.

>

I'm not entirely sure what you are on with this, so maybe care to elaborate?

I just can say that travelling arround and getting somewhere in time on necro was never an issue for me when solo roaming on said class. I did not noticed a significant difference to solo roaming on ranger in this regard. Yet the latter was and still is far better for this playstyle. The difference lies within what happens when actually runing into enemy players.

 

> Otherwise you are implying that no one ever caught up to anyone pre-mount, because we where hardcapped in running speed and couldnt possibly get ahead of other players.

>

Movement speed was about more than just running speed and i'm sure you are aware of this ...

 

> If you want hardmode gameplay, then how about you just not using the mount? If you say no well then you admit you need them to get ahead of enemies sooooo...

i've rarely played since the mount got introduced, but when i did i indeed spend most of the time unmounted. Which puts me at a huge disadvantage when facing mounted players, but barely matters when just travelling arround, because getting somewhere a little bit earlier or later usually makes no difference.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> I'm not entirely sure what you are on with this, so maybe care to elaborate?

> I just can say that travelling arround and getting somewhere in time on necro was never an issue for me when solo roaming on said class. I did not noticed a significant difference to solo roaming on ranger in this regard. Yet the latter was and still is far better for this playstyle. The difference lies within what happens when actually runing into enemy players.

 

Then you are saying one of the slowest classes worked fine. I dont disagree. That just means you dont even need faster speed to roam. So why are you arguing that everyone having similar speeds is suddenly an issue?

 

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> Movement speed was about more than just running speed and i'm sure you are aware of this ...

True. So why is the mount an issue?

 

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> i've rarely played since the mount got introduced, but when i did i indeed spend most of the time unmounted. Which puts me at a huge disadvantage when facing mounted players, but barely matters when just travelling arround, because getting somewhere a little bit earlier or later usually makes no difference.

Being at a huge disadvantage is hardmode. You said you wanted this. But what exactly puts you at a huge disadvantage? It cant be the combat skills of the mount - they only have one attack that's fairly useless in a 1v1. They can only run away otherwise, which doesnt put you at any new kind of disadvantage compared to a necro fighting any other mobile class

 

I assume it couldnt possibly be that the mount allow more enemies to come to you quicker to fight you. You just said that doesnt make any difference and is no advantage for mounts.

[UmbraNoctis.1907]

I have already explained twice in this thread why the mount is an issue, and i'm not going to repeat it a third time. If you are deliberately ignoring my posts, there is no point in continuing the discussion. If you just overlooked my posts (which i doubt, since you quoted me), feel free to read them now.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> I have already explained twice in this thread why the mount is an issue, and i'm not going to repeat it a third time. If you are deliberately ignoring my posts, there is no point in continuing the discussion. If you just overlooked my posts (which i doubt, since you quoted me), feel free to read them now.

Oh I overlook them alright, I only respond to what I quote. But to quote when you quoted yourself:

 

*"Mobility is only worth something if it gives an advantage over others. Certain classes weren't dominating the solo roaming scene because they were fast. It was because they were faster. Which allowed them to disengage, kite and eventually split up chasing enemies into more manageable "portions".

The mount takes away the tool of solo/small scale players to handle outnumbered fights, while at the same time giving zerglings a free pass."*

 

Which is then followed by claiming that the better mobility of the mount is no advantage yet still complaining that it allows enemies to disengage/kite because it's a tool for solo/small scale to better and faster handle how to engage or flee from fights.

 

So yeah... Maybe I did skim through it. Probably no point in continuing the discussion, no.

[UmbraNoctis.1907]

Since entire sentences and paragraphs are apparently too hard to understand (might be my fault, english is not my main language), i'll try to keep it short and simply:

 

out-of-combat mobility ≠ in-combat mobility

mount = out-of-combat mobility

(more) important for roaming = in-combat mobility

[Tibicia.8315]

Other games have mounts that speed across maps. It's trite. If you want to compete, maybe don't follow in other's footsteps, as you are then competing against those who have experience and know how to do it better. The game used to be unique.

 

I tried, I really REALLY tried to put up with the mounts in WvW, because it has been my favorite game-play mode for over six years. However, I started playing other games in the last few weeks, because the recent changes were bothering me so much. After six days of not playing WvW (or Gw2, even), I logged in to hang out with my guildies. I stuck around for an hour and I CAN NOT STAND THESE STUPID SUPERFLUOUS MOUNTS!

[Tibicia.8315]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524"

I see sPvP players love the mount. Let's add it to PvP.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Tibicia.8315" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524"

> I see sPvP players love the mount. Let's add it to PvP.

>

 

In all seriousness, there should be a game mode where you fly griffons around and have aerial combat skills and plenty of updrafts to stay up. That'd be pretty awesome.

 

[Tibicia.8315]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Tibicia.8315" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524"

> > I see sPvP players love the mount. Let's add it to PvP.

> >

>

> In all seriousness, there should be a game mode where you fly griffons around and have aerial combat skills and plenty of updrafts to stay up. That'd be pretty awesome.

>

Sure, on a limited map.

[L A T I O N.8923]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Tibicia.8315" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524"

> > I see sPvP players love the mount. Let's add it to PvP.

> >

>

> In all seriousness, there should be a game mode where you fly griffons around and have aerial combat skills and plenty of updrafts to stay up. That'd be pretty awesome.

>

 

Yes

 

On a new gamemode

 

Not randomly thrown in an (6year old)excisting gamemode

 

There's a reason people still stay

[Shadowcat.2680]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"alain.1659" said:

> >

> > Now if I want to roam, I cannot do it with my favourite builds and professions, as 1 person on warclaw can contest a camp for minutes if I cannot bring him down without spending all my offense and defense. So what am I forced to do? To play a build/profession that can burst someone down. Yey.

>

> I don't normally get triggered by anything in forums, even while being attacked directly. But with all due respect, I'm really getting tired of seeing statements like this because they are either greatly embellished or the players posting them are so inept that it's questionable if they understand enough about the game to even be discussing competitive balance. I am seriously not trying to be insulting here, but to even respond to such a claim, there is no other way to state the kinds of responses you are about to read. Each and every time I hear this "Warclaws can contest nodes forever and I can't dismount it" claim, here is what I think:

>

> 1. What is wrong with either the build you're running or your play, that you cannot down a 10k health target that has no protection, no cleanse, no healing, only 3 evades with no other defensive skills, that is attempting to ride circles around you at mid range? Or why could you not at least make it run away from you, from the cap you are holding or trying to take?

> 2. Every single class/build in Guild Wars 2 has mid ranged attacked that will at least deal around 1k damage on strikes worst case scenario while something like Minstrel. In the rare event that a build is almost full melee like a Spellbreaker or Herald, the designers have presented these builds with an enormous amount of long distance gap closers & instant strike teleportations.

> 3. Worst possible cast scenario: Someone is running a mace/mace Core Warrior that is only level 20 who is wearing blue quality gear bought from Queensdale with atrociously poor single stats, he doesn't have any gap closer skills and no swiftness, and he wasn't even smart enough to equip a 2nd weapon on the swap. He encounters an ultimate invulnerable godlike Warclaw rider who is able to run around him in circles and never be dismounted. Well, until the lv.20 Warrior kid figures out to put a rifle on his weapon swap. After equipping literally anything with any stat that has any ranged attack at all, despite his terrible poor low level setup, he will be able to dismount a Warclaw rider in probably about 6 to 7 strikes, and the Warclaw won't be able to run and hide from a ranged 1 spam for very long. My question to those claiming "Warclaw can contest a node under me forever and I cannot down it" is this: If a rando lv 20 with blue gear can equip a rifle and down a Warclaw in 6-7 strikes with literally any ranged weapon, why can't you? Let's go through a list here: Spellbreaker, try throwing your GS 4 and using your unholy amount of gap closers "that all deal damage mind you", including rampage - Herald, try TELEPORTING AT IT - Guardians and Dragonhunters, TRY TELEPORTING AT IT or using scepter/longbow- Firebrands, you have plenty of random condi spam and other random ranged attacks between scepter and staff, use them - All Engis, every other thing you do is ranged, use it - All Rangers, be a Ranger, and range it - All Thieves, kitten alright listen, even your shortbow 5 mobility is actually an attack, chase the Warclaw with it, try stealing at it with Mug, try all of your other various teleport attacks, select DE use a rifle - All Necros, wow can you seriously not hit a Warclaw that is riding around you in circles with the god awful amount of random mid ranged AoE, axe 1 & 2 spams, scepter spams, staff AoEs? Get real guys, come on man, get real. - All Mesmers, everything a Mesmer does is ranged, try using it - All Eles, worst case scenario you're running minstrel but you are able to stack yourself to 25 might, you deal both power and condi damage, with almost every single attack that you have, and almost every single attack that you have is mid ranged. Try attacking the Warclaw.

> 4. Furthermore, I just want to point out that when you roam and try to take supply camps, you don't run god awful slow support zerg builds with no damage or mobility or disengage or chase potential. Worst case scenario, you're trying to chase around a Warclaw with a Support Firebrand or Support Tempest ect ect, what are you doing and why are you doing that? Did you expect to catch anything or anyone, regardless of if it was on a Warclaw or not, and did you seriously expect to be able to beat that person in a 1v1, regardless of if it is on a Warclaw or not, with no damage output and no mobility and no chase potential? Come on guys, get real. Let's look at this debacle in a sensical way, please. When you roam, you use: FAST Warriors, Thieves, Rangers, Sometimes Engis with Rocket Boots who have rifles, Mesmers, Eles with high ranged DPS.

>

> I don't see what the problem is here. If anyone wants to respond with actual explanation behind this claim, I'd love to hear.

>

 

Most professions/builds won't dismount a Warclaw contesting a camp if the mounted player knows when to use its evading leaps and to take advantage of LOS. You're assuming the mounted player will stay in range for ranged auto-attacks when contesting a camp with a larger circle on a Warclaw is incredibly effective against any build except a longbow soulbeast. Ranged autos aren't enough damage for any other profession without a strong ranged burst to chew through the 11-12k health of the mount. Teleports followed by melee bursts only work if the mounted player doesn't leap/evade away as the burst would be landing, but such a burst from any non-stealthed enemy (such as guard or rev) is pretty easy to avoid while mounted. Melee builds without teleports won't land a significant enough burst regardless of how much mobility they have as any hard or soft cc such builds would normally rely on to counter enemy mobility does nothing against a Warclaw. Again, this is all assuming the mounted player times their leaps to avoid bursts versus blindly spamming the leaps.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

I take a sentry, while i'm capping, 2 enemies on mount come and stand in it..stopping from capping.

You attack one and he just runs away.

Attack the 2nd and 1st one is back in the circle.

This is current state of WvW.

[Sansar.1302]

Still waiting on some kind of warclaw change, a bit frustrating to know Ben have made a dismount skill but it depends on if they want it or not in game :confused:

[AliamRationem.5172]

It isn't just people who hate the warclaw that feel certain elements of its design are problematic.

 

I'm one of those players that never enjoyed WvW previously. I dreaded playing this boring game mode so much that I always put off GoB until it was the very last thing I needed to craft a legendary. I couldn't stand all the time spent slow walking around huge maps, looking for action. The warclaw changed all of that. Now I spend nearly all of my game time in WvW as a solo roamer.

 

However, the one thing I hate is the fact that the warclaw allows players to contest points without engaging. Someone brought up the fact that delaying is a viable tactic and that it's nothing new. While that's true, the difference to me is that a bunker build still has to engage in order to contest the point. With the warclaw, you can simply use the speed and evades along with LoS to contest a point indefinitely without ever actually engaging the enemy.

 

I really dislike this and I hope they fix it so that you have to dismount in order to contest a point. I also wouldn't mind better tools to dismount players. But otherwise I absolutely love the warclaw. It has made the game mode I liked the least into my primary activity in GW2.

[Hitman.5829]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Warclaw removed almost all threat from the spawn camp to the location of the zerg. That's great for zergers and I'm glad now they enjoy the mode more now that the can play their zerg builds with very little worry of an engagement between spawn and zerg. Its unfortunate that we as human show our true colors in how the ro war claw players have little or no disregard for the other half of long time players that enjoyed the actual danger imposed during travel whether they were roamers or not.have the excitement was removed from the mode for players that liked there to be risk during travel, but as long as u the zergers are happy lmao. People as a whole are garbage,present company included.

>

> This is why the skill levels will also never improve overall.

 

And that is the reason players like me are choosing cheese builds to dismount these mounted noobs!

Mark my word, Anet is going to nerf my build next patch! i swear to god they are stalking me and watching what new builds I come up with because every single time they nerf and nerf my builds.

 

It has gotten to the point, that the only reliable build that i have left is the only one that works to dismount these noobs.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

After hearing the bulk of the complaining myself, it seems like the quick fix is simply this:

 

* Cannot contest objectives while mounted

* Warclaw now has small breakbar. When breakbar breaks, Warclaw is dismounted. By small I mean: "A Thief spamming Headshot twice would dismount the Warclaw." Additionally, add a small CC effect worth 2 Headshots to the Warclaw's #1 attack so it effectively functions as a dismount skill.

 

[KellionBane.4956]

The Warclaw is probably the WORST thing they've added to WVW over the last few years.

WHY?

Because it's a hurdle for new entries into WVW to overcome.

There's a clear difference between those that have one and those that do not have one. And locking the final piece of the mount behind a 5-10 hour grind in a mode that requires following a large number of players who already HAVE the mount is just asking the new people to punish themselves.

Without people being able to participate in a meaningful manner (following the zerg) they will not be able to complete their WVW reward tracks in any timely manner, and lose interest.

 

In return, this means a dying population for this mode of game play. Without new blood, you may as well retire this mode of gameplay.

 

And this entire based on my experiences on a returning player.