At what point is a single burst too strong?

[SoulSin.5682]

 

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> It comes down to the interactivity problem.

>

> DE has technically never been "OP" in the sense that what it does isn't the best for winning games. Like if you have seen decent DEs like Clown or Sir, their playstyle makes themselves unkillable but also puts their own team at risk since during setup they are basically fighting 4v5.

>

> The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada. Multiple Gods of PvP have stated this problem with DE. It's a kitten uninteractive cheese strategy that is bad for the game. Anet needs to rethink the class from a PvP perspective.

 

A sun in your head, a screaching sfx sound that makes you pull your hair, a giant golden line and a slow as hell bullet that can't cross walls. No counterplay alright.

I guess even the guy on the other post complaining about teleports makes more sense than this.

 

Also which God of PvP complained about it? Can you post the link?

As far I am concerned, every GoP was complaining how bad DE is and how easy is to shut it down.

 

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

>

> Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

 

This is the same as a newbye on Counter Strike complaining that head shoot get him instantly killed.

Does the fact the you die instantly actually means the game is unbalanced?

No.

 

Its completely alright for badly positioned people to get killed by good-positioned people. "Time to Kill" doesn't really matters much, since having more time to react doesn't really mean that reacting will change the outcome.

A Scourge can get killed by a DPS alone as easy as an DPS Herald will get slaughtered if it meets an Condi Mirage.

As long as the team gets the match ups right, it wins.

 

[Swagg.9236]

Stealth is a meme mechanic that never needed to exist in GW2. And looking at the numbers, it seems that Maul has had a 107% total baseline damage increase over the game's lifespan (and that's not counting the extra overall DPS from a lower cooldown)?? For further perspective, a single Maul apparently has a baseline impact that is nearly 10% greater than a full-power Meteor Shower strike; on a baseline 4s CD, with a mere 0.75s wind-up; on a class with loads of evasion and CC-negation (and a teleport); and this class also has perfect invisibility which has zero downsides or consistent counters (because not everyone has access to reveal, and not all reveal skills are worth taking--in fact most of them are bad).

 

This truly goes beyond just "Hey, this class is an issue." This isn't even just "balance." One cannot balance around multiple, metagame-warping gravity wells. This is like Smash Brawl Meta Knight or Smash 4 Bayonetta, except there are like 5 of each respective character, and they all sort of hard counter parts of each other in a bizarre pentagram. The game that allows for this paradigm to emerge was never one designed on strong principles of roles or gamesense. This sort of thing cannot be "balanced." It's inherently *broken*: non-functional or out of order with respect to the rest of the game.

[Zephoid.4263]

 

1: > @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> This guy is playing scourge and is complaining about Longbow dps ranger. Ofcourse scourge get obliterated by that, but it doesnt mean that Longbow dps ranger is OP. This is just symptomatic for whats wrong with these forums and why no one takes these forums seriously.

 

Nowhere i'm complaining about longbow, so please take your high horse and shove it. Longbow gives flexibility, but is not the problem here.

 

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> > If you want to blame 1 class 1 build (Berserker Soulbeast likely taking Marksmanship for yolo levels of burst and no survivability) for dying and you're not going to check minimap, not going to be aware of things on your screen, not going to save your dodges for important things, not going to position yourself so that you would be harder to burst (key to good Necros)... and you believe that just nerfing Soulbeast will make this game great for you again, then next up the hypothetical future revival of meme burst specs like Power Shatter Chrono that can definitely blow up everything in the game - things like this will earn another thread from you.

 

 

I really don't know how to respond to the number of assumptions you make here. You literally have no idea of my playstyle, and the screenshot i posted shows me OUTSIDE THE FUCKING SPAWN. How am i supposed to position myself? Its a frikn open area with the soulbeast having the only piece of cover in the area.

 

Soulbeast walks behind a pillar, so i have no idea what is next action will be. I have no way of knowing if he moved back to point, went to our home, is setting up for longbow, or moving into melee. The first indication i get is being knocked down from stealth then one shot nearly instantly after. I literally have to be precognition to be able to time my dodge to avoid him.

 

The idea that i don't understand that the other team wants to kill me in a PVP is so mind mindbogglingly stupid i can't come up with a response that fits. ITS PVP. THATS WHAT THE GAME MODE IS.

 

 

The amusing thing is that if i was a glass cannon, he probably didn't need the knockdown bonus to 1 shot me. He probably had the straight damage to do 20k in a single shot from stealth and instantly down me. Yet people are defending this. Are people so afraid of having their pet class balanced?

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

 

> > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> > > If you want to blame 1 class 1 build (Berserker Soulbeast likely taking Marksmanship for yolo levels of burst and no survivability) for dying and you're not going to check minimap, not going to be aware of things on your screen, not going to save your dodges for important things, not going to position yourself so that you would be harder to burst (key to good Necros)... and you believe that just nerfing Soulbeast will make this game great for you again, then next up the hypothetical future revival of meme burst specs like Power Shatter Chrono that can definitely blow up everything in the game - things like this will earn another thread from you.

>

>

> I really don't know how to respond to the number of assumptions you make here. You literally have no idea of my playstyle, and the screenshot i posted shows me OUTSIDE THE kitten SPAWN. How am i supposed to position myself? Its a frikn open area with the soulbeast having the only piece of cover in the area.

>

> Soulbeast walks behind a pillar, so i have no idea what is next action will be. I have no way of knowing if he moved back to point, went to our home, is setting up for longbow, or moving into melee. The first indication i get is being knocked down from stealth then one shot nearly instantly after. I literally have to be precognition to be able to time my dodge to avoid him.

>

 

I give my regards in that. The fact that any player is getting spawn camped pretty much means that the other team is many times more prepared, and perhaps skilled, than yours. That said your team class match up lacks someone to break this conundrum (unless the mirage or the warrior with you were sidenode geniuses and carry the whole situation).

 

That said....

 

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> The idea that i don't understand that the other team wants to kill me in a PVP is so mind mindbogglingly stupid i can't come up with a response that fits. ITS PVP. THATS WHAT THE GAME MODE IS.

>

 

... this is where my condolences ends. You pretty much sold yourself as a new player saying this.

Well, for starters, welcome to SPvP. It can be a bit frustrating at the start. But I can assure you that once you get the hang of things it actually gets fun.

 

That said, the game mode is about racking up points. Kills are part of that, but not all of it.

Scourge is a **priority target** because the amount of pressure it grants on teamfights. The whole enemy team will always work on killing you first.

 

It's more than simple "They want to kill me because this is PvP". This is a open-role based PvP game. You win by playing your role, not by killing people.

 

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> The amusing thing is that if i was a glass cannon, he probably didn't need the knockdown bonus to 1 shot me. He probably had the straight damage to do 20k in a single shot from stealth and instantly down me. Yet people are defending this. Are people so afraid of having their pet class balanced?

 

Power SoulBeast is far from being this game "pet class". (welp, not talking here about the pet mechanic). In fact, DPS role alone there are at least 2 or 3 classes above it that are Way. More. Dangerous.

 

I mean no offense. Your are clearly a new player.

Situations like this are somewhat easy to counter once you get used to them.

But this whole situation is a l2p issue.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> If a move can hit you for **all your HP**, even when you are not playing glass, without:

>

> having a clearly visible telegraph of at least a couple of seconds

>

> or

>

> while also having the means to HIDE the telegraph without significant windup

>

> The burst is too strong.

>

> There is no rational explanation for having a combination of buffs that can lead to you doing 27k damage to a single target in pvp in one move, especially if that move can be hidden by stealth.

>

 

One thing I find particularly grating is the argument "If you do this your so glassy and can get one shot back just as easily."

 

Literally every profession can meme around on a Berserker's amulet aiming for as huge of crits as possible. Only one gets anywhere near this level of damage.

[Zephoid.4263]

 

> I mean no offense. Your are clearly a new player.

 

Another strong reader i see. Not only did i start the OP with a history of OHKs in recent PVP, but a post or two down i state i have been plat 1-2 for a few seasons. So yeah, no.

 

Boon beast has been top teir power dps alongside rev and hollowsmith for a long while now.

 

I don't think you understand what a pet class means. It means that those defending the class are very likely ranger mains. No one can seriously defends 24k damage single hit impartially.

 

[BlackTruth.6813]

I like how people are still defending soulbeast or ranger, do you legit not see the advantage soulbeast has? Be it competitive or new, it is a braindead spec no matter how you spec it tanky or burst, do you know why? You can literally bait dodges with yourself and with your pet, 2 factors baiting dodges at the same time. How is that L2P?

 

Be it as it may that "berserker soulbeast" gets trolled in high level play, but it is still has EVIL written all over it. Literally an anti-fun class since the beginning of the game. I mean these mechanics legit has EVIL written on the build that "works at top play" be it tanky or zerker (automatic pet, 2 things baiting out dodges and defenses at once).

 

Maul being at a 4 second cd doesn't really help either cause literally you don't even have to stow it, you just INEVITABLY bait a dodge with it and then when the guy runs out of dodges? Just go for the stun. Bonus if your pet stuns him and the next maul REALLY baits out something significant or even better, flat out kills him.

 

Doesn't help that the ranger already spams evades, blocks (GS auto-cancel, GS 3, GS 4) while the the pet baits dodges and cds out.

 

Literally Ranger as a class is just mechanically braindead, EVER SINCE LAUNCH and people want to dodge the mechanical arguments? FFS.

 

Like honestly, maybe increase the pet RNG knockdowns to 120 seconds. It's already automatic garbage, and pet auto attack itself can already be disgusting if you spec it right. Make the power from the RANGER itself, not with the automatic garbage. Complex blueprints in making a class =/= hard class, sigh.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> I like how people are still defending soulbeast or ranger, do you legit not see the advantage soulbeast has? Be it competitive or new, it is a braindead spec no matter how you spec it tanky or burst, do you know why? You can literally bait dodges with yourself and with your pet, 2 factors baiting dodges at the same time. How is that L2P?

>

> Be it as it may that "berserker soulbeast" gets trolled in high level play, but it is still has EVIL written all over it. Literally an anti-fun class since the beginning of the game.

>

> Maul being at a 4 second cd doesn't really help either cause literally you don't even have to stow it, you just INEVITABLY bait a dodge with it and then when the guy runs out of dodges? Just go for the stun. Bonus if your pet stuns him and the next maul REALLY baits out something significant or even better, flat out kills him.

>

> Doesn't help that the ranger already spams evades, blocks (GS auto-cancel, GS 3, GS 4) while the the pet baits dodges and cds out.

>

> Literally Ranger as a class is just mechanically braindead, EVER SINCE LAUNCH and people want to dodge the mechanical arguments? kitten.

>

> Like honestly, maybe increase the pet RNG knockdowns to 120 seconds. It's already automatic garbage, and pet auto attack itself can already be disgusting if you spec it right. Make the power from the RANGER itself, not with the automatic garbage. Complex blueprints in making a class =/= hard class, sigh.

 

So basically **your warrior** dislikes rangers and want to see them deleted or neutered to no threat level, neither will ever happen so...

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

>

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > It comes down to the interactivity problem.

> >

> > DE has technically never been "OP" in the sense that what it does isn't the best for winning games. Like if you have seen decent DEs like Clown or Sir, their playstyle makes themselves unkillable but also puts their own team at risk since during setup they are basically fighting 4v5.

> >

> > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada. Multiple Gods of PvP have stated this problem with DE. It's a kitten uninteractive cheese strategy that is bad for the game. Anet needs to rethink the class from a PvP perspective.

>

> A sun in your head, a screaching sfx sound that makes you pull your hair, a giant golden line and a slow as hell bullet that can't cross walls. No counterplay alright.

> I guess even the guy on the other post complaining about teleports makes more sense than this.

>

> Also which God of PvP complained about it? Can you post the link?

> As far I am concerned, every GoP was complaining how bad DE is and how easy is to shut it down.

>

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

> >

> > Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

>

> This is the same as a newbye on Counter Strike complaining that head shoot get him instantly killed.

> Does the fact the you die instantly actually means the game is unbalanced?

> No.

>

> Its completely alright for badly positioned people to get killed by good-positioned people. "Time to Kill" doesn't really matters much, since having more time to react doesn't really mean that reacting will change the outcome.

> A Scourge can get killed by a DPS alone as easy as an DPS Herald will get slaughtered if it meets an Condi Mirage.

> As long as the team gets the match ups right, it wins.

>

 

You can one-shot someone with Malicious Backstab. In stealth, cast Binding Shadow and when done casting cast Deadeye's Mark, and the moment you mark your foe use the backstab as well as infiltrator's signet and assassin's signet. It's an OHKO and has absolutely 0 counterplay.

[Zephoid.4263]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> >

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > It comes down to the interactivity problem.

> > >

> > > DE has technically never been "OP" in the sense that what it does isn't the best for winning games. Like if you have seen decent DEs like Clown or Sir, their playstyle makes themselves unkillable but also puts their own team at risk since during setup they are basically fighting 4v5.

> > >

> > > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada. Multiple Gods of PvP have stated this problem with DE. It's a kitten uninteractive cheese strategy that is bad for the game. Anet needs to rethink the class from a PvP perspective.

> >

> > A sun in your head, a screaching sfx sound that makes you pull your hair, a giant golden line and a slow as hell bullet that can't cross walls. No counterplay alright.

> > I guess even the guy on the other post complaining about teleports makes more sense than this.

> >

> > Also which God of PvP complained about it? Can you post the link?

> > As far I am concerned, every GoP was complaining how bad DE is and how easy is to shut it down.

> >

> > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

> > >

> > > Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

> >

> > This is the same as a newbye on Counter Strike complaining that head shoot get him instantly killed.

> > Does the fact the you die instantly actually means the game is unbalanced?

> > No.

> >

> > Its completely alright for badly positioned people to get killed by good-positioned people. "Time to Kill" doesn't really matters much, since having more time to react doesn't really mean that reacting will change the outcome.

> > A Scourge can get killed by a DPS alone as easy as an DPS Herald will get slaughtered if it meets an Condi Mirage.

> > As long as the team gets the match ups right, it wins.

> >

>

> You can one-shot someone with Malicious Backstab. In stealth, cast Binding Shadow and when done casting cast Deadeye's Mark, and the moment you mark your foe use the backstab as well as infiltrator's signet and assassin's signet. It's an OHKO and has absolutely 0 counterplay.

 

I've tried this. the max i could hit was 17k on the light armor golem (3k binding+14k backstab). So you could probably 1 shot most zerker builds, but even marauders is probably going to live and have a chance to respond. Probably possible to get more if you could trigger the weapon swap in combat to get the additional 5% vuln from sigil (i didn't test). Still, not even close to soulbeast, uses all 3 utilities, and precludes you from using Deadly Arts as the traits unstealth you on mark. Also requires target facing and has a animation that surrounds your target for up to 2s before you hit from binding.

 

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> I've tried this. the max i could hit was 17k on the light armor golem (3k binding+14k backstab). So you could probably 1 shot most zerker builds, but even marauders is probably going to live and have a chance to respond. Probably possible to get more if you could trigger the weapon swap in combat to get the additional 5% vuln from sigil (i didn't test). Still, not even close to soulbeast, uses all 3 utilities, and precludes you from using Deadly Arts as the traits unstealth you on mark. Also requires target facing and has a animation that surrounds your target for up to 2s before you hit from binding.

From what I seen in pvp lobby was 4k binding and 18-19k MB . No animation in stealth and any sound in this game delayed by a solid second.

Oh wait,thats dud who dont even know core guardian traits but whine about soulbeast...and advocate for another oneshot class... make sense now

 

 

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > >

> > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > It comes down to the interactivity problem.

> > > >

> > > > DE has technically never been "OP" in the sense that what it does isn't the best for winning games. Like if you have seen decent DEs like Clown or Sir, their playstyle makes themselves unkillable but also puts their own team at risk since during setup they are basically fighting 4v5.

> > > >

> > > > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada. Multiple Gods of PvP have stated this problem with DE. It's a kitten uninteractive cheese strategy that is bad for the game. Anet needs to rethink the class from a PvP perspective.

> > >

> > > A sun in your head, a screaching sfx sound that makes you pull your hair, a giant golden line and a slow as hell bullet that can't cross walls. No counterplay alright.

> > > I guess even the guy on the other post complaining about teleports makes more sense than this.

> > >

> > > Also which God of PvP complained about it? Can you post the link?

> > > As far I am concerned, every GoP was complaining how bad DE is and how easy is to shut it down.

> > >

> > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > > > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

> > > >

> > > > Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

> > >

> > > This is the same as a newbye on Counter Strike complaining that head shoot get him instantly killed.

> > > Does the fact the you die instantly actually means the game is unbalanced?

> > > No.

> > >

> > > Its completely alright for badly positioned people to get killed by good-positioned people. "Time to Kill" doesn't really matters much, since having more time to react doesn't really mean that reacting will change the outcome.

> > > A Scourge can get killed by a DPS alone as easy as an DPS Herald will get slaughtered if it meets an Condi Mirage.

> > > As long as the team gets the match ups right, it wins.

> > >

> >

> > You can one-shot someone with Malicious Backstab. In stealth, cast Binding Shadow and when done casting cast Deadeye's Mark, and the moment you mark your foe use the backstab as well as infiltrator's signet and assassin's signet. It's an OHKO and has absolutely 0 counterplay.

>

> I've tried this. the max i could hit was 17k on the light armor golem (3k binding+14k backstab). So you could probably 1 shot most zerker builds, but even marauders is probably going to live and have a chance to respond. Probably possible to get more if you could trigger the weapon swap in combat to get the additional 5% vuln from sigil (i didn't test). Still, not even close to soulbeast, uses all 3 utilities, and precludes you from using Deadly Arts as the traits unstealth you on mark. Also requires target facing and has a animation that surrounds your target for up to 2s before you hit from binding.

>

>

 

I hit 20k backstabs. Get a new build, lol. =p

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > >

> > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > It comes down to the interactivity problem.

> > > >

> > > > DE has technically never been "OP" in the sense that what it does isn't the best for winning games. Like if you have seen decent DEs like Clown or Sir, their playstyle makes themselves unkillable but also puts their own team at risk since during setup they are basically fighting 4v5.

> > > >

> > > > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada. Multiple Gods of PvP have stated this problem with DE. It's a kitten uninteractive cheese strategy that is bad for the game. Anet needs to rethink the class from a PvP perspective.

> > >

> > > A sun in your head, a screaching sfx sound that makes you pull your hair, a giant golden line and a slow as hell bullet that can't cross walls. No counterplay alright.

> > > I guess even the guy on the other post complaining about teleports makes more sense than this.

> > >

> > > Also which God of PvP complained about it? Can you post the link?

> > > As far I am concerned, every GoP was complaining how bad DE is and how easy is to shut it down.

> > >

> > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > > > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

> > > >

> > > > Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

> > >

> > > This is the same as a newbye on Counter Strike complaining that head shoot get him instantly killed.

> > > Does the fact the you die instantly actually means the game is unbalanced?

> > > No.

> > >

> > > Its completely alright for badly positioned people to get killed by good-positioned people. "Time to Kill" doesn't really matters much, since having more time to react doesn't really mean that reacting will change the outcome.

> > > A Scourge can get killed by a DPS alone as easy as an DPS Herald will get slaughtered if it meets an Condi Mirage.

> > > As long as the team gets the match ups right, it wins.

> > >

> >

> > You can one-shot someone with Malicious Backstab. In stealth, cast Binding Shadow and when done casting cast Deadeye's Mark, and the moment you mark your foe use the backstab as well as infiltrator's signet and assassin's signet. It's an OHKO and has absolutely 0 counterplay.

>

> I've tried this. the max i could hit was 17k on the light armor golem (3k binding+14k backstab). So you could probably 1 shot most zerker builds, but even marauders is probably going to live and have a chance to respond. Probably possible to get more if you could trigger the weapon swap in combat to get the additional 5% vuln from sigil (i didn't test). Still, not even close to soulbeast, uses all 3 utilities, and precludes you from using Deadly Arts as the traits unstealth you on mark. Also requires target facing and has a animation that surrounds your target for up to 2s before you hit from binding.

>

>

 

Players can also have lower armour than the light armour golem.

 

There is a reason the best defence is always avoidance. Mitigation doesn't mean much these days.

[zoopop.5630]

I'm loving these comments.

 

How's 1 suppose to keep track of someone who's able to stealth for a fairly long duration and expect to dodge out of a burst if they dont see coming? Way to much crap happening in conquest and very little communication happening during any rank and unrank games. Very rarely do you have teammates pinging or even typing a single word to give you a heads up. Especially when your a side noder and dealing with a 1vs1 or 1vsX.

 

Not many people complain about Rev, and Fresh Air Weaver because we CAN at least see them on the map. However when you have a Mesmer Using stealth, Ranger, and Deadeye(when it was beyond busted with stealth on dodge) you are gonna get a good amount of complains because it's just stupid to give someone the ability to stealth and take someone out in seconds. That's what you call Unhealthy game play that's dumb to play against because YOU as a player might be able to prevent it from killing you but the chances of 4 random pugs being on the same level as you are very rare especially with how match making works. Drawing on the map, pinging and typing in team chat isn't going to help the random players if they don't understand any of that or know how to counter against it.

 

 

[xp eke xp.6724]

@ master ketsu:

yes there is no counter to de burst. But:

- he has to time his burst perfectly if he uses binding shadow, to have a non reactive able burst

- or if he plays without it, you can dodge him if he stealthburst but at all he has multible burst options => so at all he force players to use the defences multible times correctly (he burst for minimal 7k without stealth and he can burst all 4 seconds permanently/ or 3 times at 5 seconds)

 

at the second option it means most classes can handle him, but you need good reactions and if you do it right, you have no defence against a second player (outside of teamfights with a support).

 

Imo it´s still fine, cause DE gets the new skillcap-build. As long its posible to react on bursts they arent broken, esp if they arent deadly. And atm we have only 3 builds that bursts instand but they are only deadly for builds like necros that want to stay at teamfights.

 

1) deadeye with critical strike and shadowarts (the build with tryckery i allready said is only dificult to survive and one burst isn´t deadly!)

2) Powermesmer can instandburst with 20k on no armor at pvp (the condi build can do more, but it´s not instand)

3) freshair ele

 

first if a burst is instand/or like on deadeye not reactive able and they force most builds to get more defensive gears/builds then they normaly would play, then its a gamebreaker. But if you play a bad build at all, this strong bursts has to be able punish you for that.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada.

 

* A big circle sitting over your head for multiple seconds

* a noise indicator that happens before the bullet is shot

* a bright red-orange line showing the path of the bullet

* a thief being engaged with you to get malice

* a voice clip that lets you know when the thief's malice is full against you

* the bullet being blockable, and thus reflectable.

 

You sure there's zero? I don't care much for rifle, but don't pretend like there's not a glaring neon "YOU AM GONNA BE BURST" sign over your head long enough for you to figure out a gameplan.

 

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

>

> Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

 

This. There is no problem with DPS oriented specs in and of themselves. The problems begin to manifest when all that damage happens at once, with no visual indication that it's going to happen. I'd even go so far to say I would be completely fine with maul doing around 20k _if the ranger couldn't also stealth it_ or _had to ramp up their damage in combat before they could oneshot maul you._

 

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > >

> > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > It comes down to the interactivity problem.

> > > > >

> > > > > DE has technically never been "OP" in the sense that what it does isn't the best for winning games. Like if you have seen decent DEs like Clown or Sir, their playstyle makes themselves unkillable but also puts their own team at risk since during setup they are basically fighting 4v5.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada. Multiple Gods of PvP have stated this problem with DE. It's a kitten uninteractive cheese strategy that is bad for the game. Anet needs to rethink the class from a PvP perspective.

> > > >

> > > > A sun in your head, a screaching sfx sound that makes you pull your hair, a giant golden line and a slow as hell bullet that can't cross walls. No counterplay alright.

> > > > I guess even the guy on the other post complaining about teleports makes more sense than this.

> > > >

> > > > Also which God of PvP complained about it? Can you post the link?

> > > > As far I am concerned, every GoP was complaining how bad DE is and how easy is to shut it down.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > > > > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

> > > > >

> > > > > Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

> > > >

> > > > This is the same as a newbye on Counter Strike complaining that head shoot get him instantly killed.

> > > > Does the fact the you die instantly actually means the game is unbalanced?

> > > > No.

> > > >

> > > > Its completely alright for badly positioned people to get killed by good-positioned people. "Time to Kill" doesn't really matters much, since having more time to react doesn't really mean that reacting will change the outcome.

> > > > A Scourge can get killed by a DPS alone as easy as an DPS Herald will get slaughtered if it meets an Condi Mirage.

> > > > As long as the team gets the match ups right, it wins.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You can one-shot someone with Malicious Backstab. In stealth, cast Binding Shadow and when done casting cast Deadeye's Mark, and the moment you mark your foe use the backstab as well as infiltrator's signet and assassin's signet. It's an OHKO and has absolutely 0 counterplay.

> >

> > I've tried this. the max i could hit was 17k on the light armor golem (3k binding+14k backstab). So you could probably 1 shot most zerker builds, but even marauders is probably going to live and have a chance to respond. Probably possible to get more if you could trigger the weapon swap in combat to get the additional 5% vuln from sigil (i didn't test). Still, not even close to soulbeast, uses all 3 utilities, and precludes you from using Deadly Arts as the traits unstealth you on mark. Also requires target facing and has a animation that surrounds your target for up to 2s before you hit from binding.

> >

> >

>

> I hit 20k backstabs. Get a new build, lol. =p

 

Well that's awesome.

 

Play 100 Ranked games with it and show us the Win ratio.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada.

>

> * A big circle sitting over your head for multiple seconds

> * a noise indicator that happens before the bullet is shot

> * a bright red-orange line showing the path of the bullet

> * a thief being engaged with you to get malice

> * a voice clip that lets you know when the thief's malice is full against you

> * the bullet being blockable, and thus reflectable.

>

> You sure there's zero? I don't care much for rifle, but don't pretend like there's not a glaring neon "YOU AM GONNA BE BURST" sign over your head long enough for you to figure out a gameplan.

 

DJ isn't what they use to burst though...

 

 

 

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > > It comes down to the interactivity problem.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > DE has technically never been "OP" in the sense that what it does isn't the best for winning games. Like if you have seen decent DEs like Clown or Sir, their playstyle makes themselves unkillable but also puts their own team at risk since during setup they are basically fighting 4v5.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada. Multiple Gods of PvP have stated this problem with DE. It's a kitten uninteractive cheese strategy that is bad for the game. Anet needs to rethink the class from a PvP perspective.

> > > > >

> > > > > A sun in your head, a screaching sfx sound that makes you pull your hair, a giant golden line and a slow as hell bullet that can't cross walls. No counterplay alright.

> > > > > I guess even the guy on the other post complaining about teleports makes more sense than this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also which God of PvP complained about it? Can you post the link?

> > > > > As far I am concerned, every GoP was complaining how bad DE is and how easy is to shut it down.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > > > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > > > > > DPS is a role. Complaining about one DPS to get nerfed will just move people to the use the next one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agree that DPS is a role. But DPS does not necessarily mean OHK (or close to that). I think OP's point is more: "OHK should not be in the game."

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the same as a newbye on Counter Strike complaining that head shoot get him instantly killed.

> > > > > Does the fact the you die instantly actually means the game is unbalanced?

> > > > > No.

> > > > >

> > > > > Its completely alright for badly positioned people to get killed by good-positioned people. "Time to Kill" doesn't really matters much, since having more time to react doesn't really mean that reacting will change the outcome.

> > > > > A Scourge can get killed by a DPS alone as easy as an DPS Herald will get slaughtered if it meets an Condi Mirage.

> > > > > As long as the team gets the match ups right, it wins.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You can one-shot someone with Malicious Backstab. In stealth, cast Binding Shadow and when done casting cast Deadeye's Mark, and the moment you mark your foe use the backstab as well as infiltrator's signet and assassin's signet. It's an OHKO and has absolutely 0 counterplay.

> > >

> > > I've tried this. the max i could hit was 17k on the light armor golem (3k binding+14k backstab). So you could probably 1 shot most zerker builds, but even marauders is probably going to live and have a chance to respond. Probably possible to get more if you could trigger the weapon swap in combat to get the additional 5% vuln from sigil (i didn't test). Still, not even close to soulbeast, uses all 3 utilities, and precludes you from using Deadly Arts as the traits unstealth you on mark. Also requires target facing and has a animation that surrounds your target for up to 2s before you hit from binding.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I hit 20k backstabs. Get a new build, lol. =p

>

> Well that's awesome.

>

> Play 100 Ranked games with it and show us the Win ratio.

 

Well, this isn't about winning Conquest. I'm simply explaining that bursts like these exist and are unfair. This can be used as a troll method in custom servers, the FFA area and just promote overall toxicity and annoyance in Conquest. Don't even get me started on the implications this has in WvW.

[Zephoid.4263]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > The problem is DE has always been "unfair". There is **ZERO** counterplay to a properly played DE burst. None. Zilch. Nada.

>

> * A big circle sitting over your head for multiple seconds

> * a noise indicator that happens before the bullet is shot

> * a bright red-orange line showing the path of the bullet

> * a thief being engaged with you to get malice

> * a voice clip that lets you know when the thief's malice is full against you

> * the bullet being blockable, and thus reflectable.

>

> You sure there's zero? I don't care much for rifle, but don't pretend like there's not a glaring neon "YOU AM GONNA BE BURST" sign over your head long enough for you to figure out a gameplan.

 

Also, DJ can now be blocked. They have taken a lot of steps to nerf the DE one shot build, but soulbeast... untouched. Even at its prime, soulbeast was more viable than DE.

 

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> **Well, this isn't about winning Conquest.** I'm simply explaining that bursts like these exist and are unfair. This can be used as a troll method in custom servers, the FFA area and just promote overall toxicity and annoyance in Conquest. Don't even get me started on the implications this has in WvW.

 

Wait. What? How come this is not about winning? Why do you even play this game mode?

 

So you guys actually understand that this is not an actual balance problem and that these builds are actually terrible.

Yet still come to the forum to complain and ask nerfs about builds that statically can't win shit.

 

Just because,

## in your opinion,

you believe they are not fun?

 

 

**Really?**

 

 

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > **Well, this isn't about winning Conquest.** I'm simply explaining that bursts like these exist and are unfair. This can be used as a troll method in custom servers, the FFA area and just promote overall toxicity and annoyance in Conquest. Don't even get me started on the implications this has in WvW.

>

> Wait. What? How come this is not about winning? **Why do you even play this game mode?**

 

Winning is nice, sure. But also to _have fun_.

 

> So you guys actually understand that this is not an actual balance problem and that these builds are actually terrible.

> Yet still come to the forum to complain and ask nerfs about builds that statically can't win kitten.

>

> Just because,

> ## in your opinion,

> you believe they are not fun?

>

>

> **Really?**

 

If fun matters, and a lot of people find certain builds anti-fun, should that be ignored?

 

Various Mesmer builds have been QQ'd about for months as "anti-fun" even when discussion after discussion showed they're not necessarily unbalanced. Did fun-factor not matter there?

[SoulSin.5682]

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > **Well, this isn't about winning Conquest.** I'm simply explaining that bursts like these exist and are unfair. This can be used as a troll method in custom servers, the FFA area and just promote overall toxicity and annoyance in Conquest. Don't even get me started on the implications this has in WvW.

> >

> > Wait. What? How come this is not about winning? **Why do you even play this game mode?**

>

> Winning is nice, sure. But also to _have fun_.

>

> > So you guys actually understand that this is not an actual balance problem and that these builds are actually terrible.

> > Yet still come to the forum to complain and ask nerfs about builds that statically can't win kitten.

> >

> > Just because,

> > ## in your opinion,

> > you believe they are not fun?

> >

> >

> > **Really?**

>

> If fun matters, and a lot of people find certain builds anti-fun, should that be ignored?

>

> Various Mesmer builds have been QQ'd about for months as "anti-fun" even when discussion after discussion showed they're not necessarily unbalanced. Did fun-factor not matter there?

 

Of course not. Why? Because fun is subjective.

You hate fighting mesmer? What about those who actually like the challenge? Or those that actually play mesmer?

 

People complain about everything. Anything. That at certain point in time they disagree. You can't take balance decisions based on that.

Not a wonder why we keep getting completely random patch notes every 6 months. You can't balance a game this way.

[anduriell.6280]

OP wasnt hit from stealth, let's start with that.

OP ate a full chain of smokeassault while doing nothing, then ate a very slow 1 and half second animation takedown and while in the ground instead trigger Garish Pillar (it can be cast while stunned) to fear the soulbeast he just decided to facetank the full 2 and half second bear animation.

What can i say now...

 

Do i agree 20k one hit is good for the game? No, i don't. But then all classes should be nerfed as all do ridiculous damage at this point.

 

Or at least change the power damage calculation based in armor... but then this game would drift towards condition builds. So there is that.

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > **Well, this isn't about winning Conquest.** I'm simply explaining that bursts like these exist and are unfair. This can be used as a troll method in custom servers, the FFA area and just promote overall toxicity and annoyance in Conquest. Don't even get me started on the implications this has in WvW.

>

> Wait. What? How come this is not about winning? Why do you even play this game mode?

>

> So you guys actually understand that this is not an actual balance problem and that these builds are actually terrible.

> Yet still come to the forum to complain and ask nerfs about builds that statically can't win kitten.

>

> Just because,

> ## in your opinion,

> you believe they are not fun?

>

>

> **Really?**

>

>

 

As I said, you don't need to win a game of Conquest to ruin someone else's day.