[WvW] Strength instead of Defense? Trying to get more damage.

[Zexanima.7851]

**Current Builds**

* [Zerg/GvG](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASRnUJCF7ilhAeeAM7ilsADPDvhHxK1gUXMAZwVACAA-j1xHABMpEEgDBQPK/eX9nw3fIgjAgX6CmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Zerg/GvG")

* [solo roaming](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAoeRnMdAt6ilhAWhAkiglrADJAkASd4b4P8JWJH06qBA-j1xHABMpEMgjAw7q/E++DepJoHlfAcIAmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Solo roaming")

Does anyone have success with Str/Dis/Spb? I'm just trying to think of ways to improve my damage without losing too much survivability.

[Hitman.5829]

No, endure pain and balance stance are the only means of survival for the warrior. Without them you are susceptible to instant death in GvG and solo roaming without even lying a finger on the enemy.

 

Warrior is a melee class with 130 range average, that means you **ARE NOT** going to be the first to land the hits upon combat. You will **ALWAYS** be the one that gets hit first on engage. You have to assume that your health is going to be 50% or less as soon as you enter combat. For that reason, Defense is a must.

 

If you are playing warrior without defense, then you are doing it wrong.

 

It is sad, that warrior is held hostage by the defense and discipline traits.

 

The only real choice warriors can get is on the last trait line. You can play Strength instead of SB in GvG. Core warrior is so much fun in GvG if you know what you are doing.

[cryorion.9532]

My favorite build in WvW is Str/Dis/Spb, dagger/dagger + greatsword. Although, I am not playing it as often because usually I encounter situations where it just does not perform that well. So I adjust and either use meta build (almost identical to your Zerg/GvG one) or just try other meme builds instead for fun/testing.

 

The general idea of Str/Dis/Spb is to burst fast enough before sustain fight starts. It is not very practical in big fights where damages come from all around (and it is difficult to predict things, e.g. random Coalescence of Ruin out of nowhere, etc).

 

Of course you will get more damage with Strength instead of Defense, but you can't do damage if you are cced/dead. So it is up to you to determine whether you can use Strength more effectively than Defense, if your group can carry you enough to be able go more glassy.

 

For 1v1-2, I would say that overall, Strength Spb performs better than Defense Spb because bursting enemy fast and pressure them with high damage/being in their melee range is most of the time is much more effective than playing sustain wars with them. Of course there are some exceptions and it depends on enemy build.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> The only real choice warriors can get is on the last trait line. You can play Strength instead of SB in GvG. Core warrior is so much fun in GvG if you know what you are doing.

 

Isn't the majority of the reason anyone even bothers taking warrior in GvG is for WoD?

 

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> My favorite build in WvW is Str/Dis/Spb, dagger/dagger + greatsword. Although, I am not playing it as often because usually I encounter situations where it just does not perform that well. So I adjust and either use meta build (almost identical to your Zerg/GvG one) or just try other meme builds instead for fun/testing.

>

I have honestly never played D/D because off hand dagger never appealed to me over shield, maybe I'll give it a shot for the hell of it. I probably should just start trying crazy builds to see what I can get away with.

> The general idea of Str/Dis/Spb is to burst fast enough before sustain fight starts. It is not very practical in big fights where damages come from all around (and it is difficult to predict things, e.g. random Coalescence of Ruin out of nowhere, etc).

>

> Of course you will get more damage with Strength instead of Defense, but you can't do damage if you are cced/dead. So it is up to you to determine whether you can use Strength more effectively than Defense, if your group can carry you enough to be able go more glassy.

 

Yeah, probably not best to run it for GvG. I'm just always so low on the damage meters compared to the other dps. :cry:

>

> For 1v1-2, I would say that overall, Strength Spb performs better than Defense Spb because bursting enemy fast and pressure them with high damage/being in their melee range is most of the time is much more effective than playing sustain wars with them. Of course there are some exceptions and it depends on enemy build.

[cryorion.9532]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> I have honestly never played D/D because off hand dagger never appealed to me over shield, maybe I'll give it a shot for the hell of it. I probably should just start trying crazy builds to see what I can get away with.

 

Dagger mainhand is in my opinion one of the best (if not the best) in-combat gap closing weapon. Both leaps on main hand are so smooth to use, very fast and have low CD. It is really good if you enjoy fast paced gameplay. Shame that Aura Slicer got its cooldown nerfed from 6 to 8 seconds.

Dagger offhand is what gives this build punch, Wastrel's Ruin usually crits between 8-14k. Together with Bull's charge combo, it is very deadly.

 

Dagger Storm is very nice for extra damage, adrenaline gain and stack vulnerability on top of that. Reflect on it is very unreliable, but sometimes you can be lucky to reflect e.g. ranger's knockback or stealth arrow which feels good.

I appreciate adrenaline gain and finishing potential (when enemy is very low hp before going down state) of that skill the most.

[sneakytails.5629]

Yeah, Dagger/Dagger does feel good to use. That's why I have ran it on my Spellbreaker since launch.

 

I tend to use the Dagger 3/4 or FC/dagger4 combo with Sigil of Severance in the MH Dagger for even more extra punch. I use Sigil of Draining in the offhand for a bit of extra sustain.

 

There are problems with 130 range weapons though, they can be frustrating to use in certain matchups. Also the Dagger 3/4 is heavily negated by passive stunbreaks and evade heavy builds. I have dueled some good thiefs that never let me land the full combo a single time, very frustrating in those type of situations.

 

I was not happy with the Dagger nerfs either, I felt like Dagger/Dagger was hurt a lot by it.

 

Its still fun, but frustrating to use at times.

[Hitman.5829]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > The only real choice warriors can get is on the last trait line. You can play Strength instead of SB in GvG. Core warrior is so much fun in GvG if you know what you are doing.

>

> Isn't the majority of the reason anyone even bothers taking warrior in GvG is for WoD?

>

 

Most warrior are noobs who have no idea how powerful warrior is in GvG melee combat.

Most noobs play SB bubble because they are noobs and they follow the noob commander request to use SB.

Core warrior is extremely powerful in GvG melee combat. It is so powerful that it puts SB to shame!

With SB, you are going to remove a few boons, but then what? Your damage is going to be mediocre.

 

Core warrior is a different beast, with the right build and the right player, warrior is extremely powerful in GvG. I have a build so powerful (I also have the skill) that I never die in GvG and I run full berserker. You need to know warrior to perfection to use my build. What build it is you might ask, well, its a secret one!

[Girth.9731]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> **Current Builds**

> * [Zerg/GvG](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASRnUJCF7ilhAeeAM7ilsADPDvhHxK1gUXMAZwVACAA-j1xHABMpEEgDBQPK/eX9nw3fIgjAgX6CmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Zerg/GvG")

> * [solo roaming](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAoeRnMdAt6ilhAWhAkiglrADJAkASd4b4P8JWJH06qBA-j1xHABMpEMgjAw7q/E++DepJoHlfAcIAmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Solo roaming")

> Does anyone have success with Str/Dis/Spb? I'm just trying to think of ways to improve my damage without losing too much survivability.

 

Yes, it is absolutely possible to run SB without defense, even in zerg fights.

 

First off, let me start by saying that if you are playing defense SB for roaming in 2019 you are doing it wrong. The passive regen style of warrior is dead and has not kept up with the powercreep. Strength SB with Mending provides more healing, more condi clear, more endurance, more might, and more damage. I swapped from defense SB to strength SB about a month ago for sPvP and WvW roaming and trust me, its way better.

 

As for zerging, my guildies and I in [HERE] are currently testing a SB Str Disc build for WvW. So far its showed alot of promise. You will consistantly hit higher numbers than the defense variant. Instead of relying on autoproc stances going off at the right time, you rely on spamming your dodges wth the insane endurance regen you'll get. We've found that a big part of the damage actually comes from procing Reckless Dodge. The build is more difficult to use however.

 

In short, yes. Strength SB is now as good as or better than Defense SB in every PvP game mode.

[BlackTruth.6813]

> @"Girth.9731" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > **Current Builds**

> > * [Zerg/GvG](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASRnUJCF7ilhAeeAM7ilsADPDvhHxK1gUXMAZwVACAA-j1xHABMpEEgDBQPK/eX9nw3fIgjAgX6CmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Zerg/GvG")

> > * [solo roaming](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAoeRnMdAt6ilhAWhAkiglrADJAkASd4b4P8JWJH06qBA-j1xHABMpEMgjAw7q/E++DepJoHlfAcIAmHEAEKAVVVlUAruMC-w "Solo roaming")

> > Does anyone have success with Str/Dis/Spb? I'm just trying to think of ways to improve my damage without losing too much survivability.

>

> Yes, it is absolutely possible to run SB without defense, even in zerg fights.

>

> First off, let me start by saying that if you are playing defense SB for roaming in 2019 you are doing it wrong. The passive regen style of warrior is dead and has not kept up with the powercreep. Strength SB with Mending provides more healing, more condi clear, more endurance, more might, and more damage. I swapped from defense SB to strength SB about a month ago for sPvP and WvW roaming and trust me, its way better.

>

> As for zerging, my guildies and I in [HERE] are currently testing a SB Str Disc build for WvW. So far its showed alot of promise. You will consistantly hit higher numbers than the defense variant. Instead of relying on autoproc stances going off at the right time, you rely on spamming your dodges wth the insane endurance regen you'll get. We've found that a big part of the damage actually comes from procing Reckless Dodge. The build is more difficult to use however.

>

> In short, yes. Strength SB is now as good as or better than Defense SB in every PvP game mode.

 

Not having defense is always more rewarding and is harder. But is stronger if you do pull it off, yes.

 

But no defense means you REALLY have to land your damage, or else it's RIP

[Zexanima.7851]

@"Girth.9731" @"BlackTruth.6813" This might be completely insane but if I did run Strength on a zerg build, would Merciless Hammer ever be worth taking over Might Makes Right since I would be running hammer or would that be a little too squishy?

 

[BlackTruth.6813]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> @"Girth.9731" @"BlackTruth.6813" This might be completely insane but if I did run Strength on a zerg build, would Merciless Hammer ever be worth taking over Might Makes Right since I would be running hammer or would that be a little too squishy?

>

 

Well.. You don't want Merciess Hammer because you want damage that doesn't rely too much on CC.

 

That's why in zergs, gunflame, GS, Axe, are all good weapons. Bonus if you can find a way to make it unblockable to deal with that pesky random aegis.

[Girth.9731]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> @"Girth.9731" @"BlackTruth.6813" This might be completely insane but if I did run Strength on a zerg build, would Merciless Hammer ever be worth taking over Might Makes Right since I would be running hammer or would that be a little too squishy?

>

 

I personally wouldn't recommend it as you wouldn't get much benefit from the bonus damage against CC'd targets. The reduced cooldowns could be helpful. I chose to take MMR for a few reasons. See, Forceful Greatsword has no ICD, meaning that if I crit 5 targets with Arcing Slice, I get 5 might. Thus, MMR is particularily effective when you are cleaving multiple targets.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"Girth.9731" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Girth.9731" @"BlackTruth.6813" This might be completely insane but if I did run Strength on a zerg build, would Merciless Hammer ever be worth taking over Might Makes Right since I would be running hammer or would that be a little too squishy?

> >

>

> I personally wouldn't recommend it as you wouldn't get much benefit from the bonus damage against CC'd targets. The reduced cooldowns could be helpful. I chose to take MMR for a few reasons. See, Forceful Greatsword has no ICD, meaning that if I crit 5 targets with Arcing Slice, I get 5 might. Thus, MMR is particularily effective when you are cleaving multiple targets.

 

[This is a build ](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJARSnUJCt6idhAGeAM7iFjATZL88uC494gcS2IA0AyZA-jFSGABSpEEgjAgBXAAAV/B6DBAZ6CGa/R53BPAgAAHA08zP/8zP/8zP/8SBUlyI-w "This is a build ")I've been playing around with at work. Very similar to the ol' dodging makes right build

[BlackTruth.6813]

Hammer is too hard, probably use a DPS weapon instead or swap it out if you see a firebrand on the other side. The heal is good in zergs though.

 

Probably try out Berserker stance so you dont get blind spammed/weakness spammed. Maybe you'll like frenzy too.

 

There's a lot of things that you can do, but you gotta test out which one you like the best.

 

I'll personally always use berserker stance though. I'd consider signet of might as well vs. block spammers/firebrand comps.

[RedShark.9548]

Lol, ppl still thinking they could ever dream to be ontop of dmg charts with warrior. Its just not possible anymore, ranged will always be ahead of you because they can constantly apply pressure in zergfights, unlike warrior who has to get close to deal dmg.

Youd have to dish out sooo much burst dmg in meleeclashes that it would be broken af, and those times are long gone

[KhainPride.3987]

in zerg, run str/dis/sb + scholar rune

in roaming run def/sb/dis + scholar rune

or go OG warrior, use hammer in zerg

rifle/axe/shield etc. I been getting 25k~32k killshots on my warrior.

 

[sneakytails.5629]

Did you try it yet OP? How did it work roaming?

[DKRathalos.9625]

If we want to go with Strength type, what trait in strength we should take?

[TheBravery.9615]

glass builds are better suited for evasive or ranged builds

 

Warrior is neither.

[Traveller.7496]

So how about that magebane roamer build they got over at Metabattle?

 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Spellbreaker_-_Magebane_Roamer

 

I've been looking for a something a bit more ... viable? I've been running my trusty Axe/Shield & GS spellbreaker (similar to what Agriope runs in the YT videos, Dis-Def-SB) but lately I've felt pretty frustrated considering a lot of enemies have barrier, block, evade and disengage up seemingly all the time. Do I just have to accept my role as lower tier damage dealer or is there something I can do better?

[RisenHowl.2419]

Try dropping gs for sw/axe if you want more damage with equal utility.

 

Sw3 and axe 4 hit harder than anything gs brings and axe 5 mulches anyone you're near. Like 20k+ is common with axe 5, just make sure you have quickness from axe 4 when you pop it

 

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

No defence can work in wvw in some duels but that's about it, it may work in pvp because that's mainly about node wars and rotating around the map with plenty of los to hide, in wvw it's mostly open.

[melandru.3876]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> Try dropping gs for sw/axe if you want more damage with equal utility.

>

> Sw3 and axe 4 hit harder than anything gs brings and axe 5 mulches anyone you're near. Like 20k+ is common with axe 5, just make sure you have quickness from axe 4 when you pop it

>

>

 

nice video and sword/axe is deffo a valid option (only in large scale combat, op did mention small scale gvg or roaming where gs is superior)

 

one thing i find odd: your arc dps, shows u as top dps (which this build is rzally capable off, i played it myself and under stab when u land the full axe 5 is does tons of dmg)

but where are the heralds and weavers?

on my server (deso) we run with like 10 or often more heralds, there is no way you will outdps those

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"melandru.3876" said:

> > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > Try dropping gs for sw/axe if you want more damage with equal utility.

> >

> > Sw3 and axe 4 hit harder than anything gs brings and axe 5 mulches anyone you're near. Like 20k+ is common with axe 5, just make sure you have quickness from axe 4 when you pop it

> >

> >

>

> nice video and sword/axe is deffo a valid option (only in large scale combat, op did mention small scale gvg or roaming where gs is superior)

>

> one thing i find odd: your arc dps, shows u as top dps (which this build is rzally capable off, i played it myself and under stab when u land the full axe 5 is does tons of dmg)

> but where are the heralds and weavers?

> on my server (deso) we run with like 10 or often more heralds, there is no way you will outdps those

 

Think it was an off night, so everyone played classes they're not familiar with lol

 

Axe 5 is nuts, just straight up mulches downs as you run over them