Implementing Training Raids in to the game

[sokeenoppa.5384]

I have Said this many times, but i will say it again. There is nothing hard in raids, MOST of them (not all) can be done Even with 4 healers. Most bosses enrage Times is a joke (ok some of them Insta wipe but anyways).

 

Reason why new ppl think raids are hard is coz they want to use tactics and Squad compositions that exp Raiders use. Almost every Raid becomes afk festival If you take 2 chronos, 2-3 healers and fill the rest with scourges. Or i dont know, 2 chronos, 4 healers and 4 dps.

Most enrage timers does 0 things to squads like i listed.

OFC Raid feels hard If you enter there first time with Squad composition that is meant for speed clears..

[sarkysek.1085]

> @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> I'm referring to this topic:

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74233/please-make-the-raids-with-an-additional-mode-solo#latest

> But making a twist. For a long time what raids are missing is this middle step where people are finding a hard time to climb the ladder without it. Create a Training Mode where people can learn about the tactics and what the raids are all about. Don't give any awards to the players when they finish the boss, make them autores when they got killed, make the boss with less HP. When they learn more about the boss and his tactics then they can move to the real raids but more prepared and with better understanding of the raids and team-play.

 

Couldn't care less about PvE raiding even if training raids were introduced. Raids shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place. New, longer, more challenging, 5-man dungeons possibly tied to the main story would've been much cooler. Instead, Anet decided to give us the most generic thing in the MMORPG genre, which in return made me completely disinterested in the PvE "endgame".

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> > @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > I'm referring to this topic:

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74233/please-make-the-raids-with-an-additional-mode-solo#latest

> > But making a twist. For a long time what raids are missing is this middle step where people are finding a hard time to climb the ladder without it. Create a Training Mode where people can learn about the tactics and what the raids are all about. Don't give any awards to the players when they finish the boss, make them autores when they got killed, make the boss with less HP. When they learn more about the boss and his tactics then they can move to the real raids but more prepared and with better understanding of the raids and team-play.

>

> Couldn't care less about PvE raiding even if training raids were introduced. Raids shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place. New, longer, more challenging, 5-man dungeons possibly tied to the main story would've been much cooler. Instead, Anet decided to give us the most generic thing in the MMORPG genre.

 

Im not trying to be anoying or anything but do you think that raids are more generic than Dungeons? Coz tbh i have no clue ?

[sarkysek.1085]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> > > @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > > I'm referring to this topic:

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74233/please-make-the-raids-with-an-additional-mode-solo#latest

> > > But making a twist. For a long time what raids are missing is this middle step where people are finding a hard time to climb the ladder without it. Create a Training Mode where people can learn about the tactics and what the raids are all about. Don't give any awards to the players when they finish the boss, make them autores when they got killed, make the boss with less HP. When they learn more about the boss and his tactics then they can move to the real raids but more prepared and with better understanding of the raids and team-play.

> >

> > Couldn't care less about PvE raiding even if training raids were introduced. Raids shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place. New, longer, more challenging, 5-man dungeons possibly tied to the main story would've been much cooler. Instead, Anet decided to give us the most generic thing in the MMORPG genre.

>

> Im not trying to be anoying or anything but do you think that raids are more generic than Dungeons? Coz tbh i have no clue ?

 

GW2's dungeons aren't generic, because they were tied to the main story in an interesting way.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > > @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > > > I'm referring to this topic:

> > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74233/please-make-the-raids-with-an-additional-mode-solo#latest

> > > > But making a twist. For a long time what raids are missing is this middle step where people are finding a hard time to climb the ladder without it. Create a Training Mode where people can learn about the tactics and what the raids are all about. Don't give any awards to the players when they finish the boss, make them autores when they got killed, make the boss with less HP. When they learn more about the boss and his tactics then they can move to the real raids but more prepared and with better understanding of the raids and team-play.

> > >

> > > Couldn't care less about PvE raiding even if training raids were introduced. Raids shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place. New, longer, more challenging, 5-man dungeons possibly tied to the main story would've been much cooler. Instead, Anet decided to give us the most generic thing in the MMORPG genre.

> >

> > Im not trying to be anoying or anything but do you think that raids are more generic than Dungeons? Coz tbh i have no clue ?

>

> GW2's dungeons aren't generic, because they were tied to the main story in an interesting way.

 

Good point, Ty for your input.

Raids do have small story input aswell but yeah Dungeons are literally Part of The story.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> Or you know, the one thing most groups fail at is the enrage timer. Most experienced groups are built around the concept that enrage timer cannot, Under any circumstances be reached. However when it is reached, the encounter doesn't exactly autofail, the game just become unfair to the point a wipe is almost inevitable. Ergo, the devs have built in a bit of leeway, one that is never actually seen in experienced groups (so pointless) or insta wipe less experimented players (so mostly pointless).

>

> If you want to implement a training version, make it Exactly the same as raid, remove the Enrage part of the timer, Simply make it a reward timer. The boss wont enrage when timer runs out, but you wont get rewards (or lesser rewards). That wouldn't rob players of the actual difficulty of raids, and incentivize them to be faster and more efficient, while letting them experience the relevant mechanics of the encounter. If anything they can train on them actively by repeating the mechanism of each phase by not damaging the boss, instead focusing on proper boon/heal timing and placement. Food for thoughts.

 

Something similar to the Queens Gauntlet? That might work.

[Dondarrion.2748]

Your assumption that training raids would make raids more accessible is wrong. What you need is training guilds - which there are already lots of - and that people actually bother to learn their class, builds. Training guilds in NA and EU have been around for a long time taking sub-optimal groups - albeit mostly according to profession composition - but not necessarily with players kitted out as is optimal. They take time to explain the strat carefully, the group will have tries and wipes are expected because everyone is to learn, and if you want to try a particular mechanic at some boss, you can try that if you let your training raid leader know.

 

THIS is the training mode, raising awareness of such training guilds and learning to beat raids in normal mode is key to making raids more accessible.

 

And a lot more to back the argument here :-

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> WoW has this, its called LFR, despite all the hate you hear, its a very popular mode of raiding.

 

WoW has always centered its endgame around the dungeon/raids re-gear cycle. GW2 has had content that serves the same function as LFR raids, and has had it since launch -- in the form of world bosses and later in the form of meta events. The main difference between LFR and large open world PvE in GW2 is in rewards. LFR offers the so-called "welfare epics." Open world PvE in GW2 offers mats for BiS gear (Ascended). WoW may offer "epics" for LFR participation, but the best epics are in the higher tier raids. Still, the welfare epics are better gear than WoW offers in its open world questing.

 

Don't be fooled. The desire for easier/training/solo "raids" in GW2 is mostly about access to raid-exclusive rewards. There may be a dash of ill-informed desire for "story" mixed in. However, the real issue is rewards -- even if the person asking believes that their desired raid alternative will lead to participation in the "real" version somewhere down the line. The real reasons people don't do the existing raids will not be addressed by raid alternatives -- and without eventual access to raid-exclusive rewards, these alternatives would be pointless.

[phs.6089]

You guys are funny.

OP asks for training mode, you go ahead and tell that they want the reward. Did they tell anything about that exclusive reward?

OP ask for a place to go practice raids, with bit of less damage, you tell, that people will cheese mech. How many mech you cheese in raids?

OP asking for possibilty to get familiar with raids at own time, with like-mind people, you tell them there is OW metas.

What is it that hard to understand, people came here from other games and used to easy(training) modes, where you learn, get confident and then attempt normal and if want go for hard clear?

If Anet can implement mote for CM that would be empty and most of the raiders will never clear it, would it be so hard to implement training mote? I don't think so.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> You guys are funny.

> OP asks for training mode, you go ahead and tell that they want the reward. Did they tell anything about that exclusive reward?

> OP ask for a place to go practice raids, with bit of less damage, you tell, that people will cheese mech. How many mech you cheese in raids?

> OP asking for possibilty to get familiar with raids at own time, with like-mind people, you tell them there is OW metas.

 

+ What is the point of a training raid if it is not to get into the real thing to get the rewards? Training or "practice" raids will not make it easier to get into the real thing at some later point. The OP and others may think it will, but they are mistaken.

+ It's already possible to heal through raid damage and ignore mechanics in some paths. Reducing the consequences trivializes the mechanics and qualifies for the descriptor "cheese." Missing mechanics which do less damage _might_ teach people to do the mechanics or it might not. Failure is a good teacher. Oops is not in the same category.

+ My comment about open world metas was that they serve the same function as LFR in WoW -- a way to access reward-bearing content for players who don't care to do what the community asks to get into harder content. As far as "like-minded people" go, there is nothing preventing like-minded people from attempting the easier raid paths at "their own time" with each other now. That they don't seem willing to do so indicates the problem is something other than the existence of more accessible options. Thus, providing another "more accessible" option will not solve the real problem.

[phs.6089]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > You guys are funny.

> > OP asks for training mode, you go ahead and tell that they want the reward. Did they tell anything about that exclusive reward?

> > OP ask for a place to go practice raids, with bit of less damage, you tell, that people will cheese mech. How many mech you cheese in raids?

> > OP asking for possibilty to get familiar with raids at own time, with like-mind people, you tell them there is OW metas.

>

> + What is the point of a training raid if it is not to get into the real thing to get the rewards? Training or "practice" raids will not make it easier to get into the real thing at some later point. The OP and others may think it will, but they are mistaken.

>

I beg to differ. Again other games have it and it works. It works becasue not everyone has time to meet the training runs with guilds. I mean how many training runs a guild can stomach per week? 1-2? Max 2, right? When? Weekend right?

Not everyone is spending weekends in game. Training intaces work cus you can hop in pugs and go learn when you can. That is how most fractal runners got to t4s, got in t1 when they wanted, moved to t2, leaned in t3, now they are running daily t4s and most of them do CM+dailies.

So what are the mistakes? The only mistake i see here is 'no loot at all' in OP suggestion. But common sence tells that there should be a bit of shards(200 per wek?) maybe accedes to ascended trinkets from raids? etc. Not envoy collection and items ofc.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > You guys are funny.

> > > OP asks for training mode, you go ahead and tell that they want the reward. Did they tell anything about that exclusive reward?

> > > OP ask for a place to go practice raids, with bit of less damage, you tell, that people will cheese mech. How many mech you cheese in raids?

> > > OP asking for possibilty to get familiar with raids at own time, with like-mind people, you tell them there is OW metas.

> >

> > + What is the point of a training raid if it is not to get into the real thing to get the rewards? Training or "practice" raids will not make it easier to get into the real thing at some later point. The OP and others may think it will, but they are mistaken.

> >

> I beg to differ. Again other games have it and it works. It works becasue not everyone has time to meet the training runs with guilds. I mean how many training runs a guild can stomach per week? 1-2? Max 2, right? When? Weekend right?

> Not everyone is spending weekends in game. Training intaces work cus you can hop in pugs and go learn when you can. That is how most fractal runners got to t4s, got in t1 when they wanted, moved to t2, leaned in t3, now they are running daily t4s and most of them do CM+dailies.

> So what are the mistakes? The only mistake i see here is 'no loot at all' in OP suggestion. But common sence tells that there should be a bit of shards(200 per wek?) maybe accedes to ascended trinkets from raids? etc. Not envoy collection and items ofc.

 

Are those "other games" more raid-centered than GW2 is? WoW, the most glaring example, certainly is (or was when I played it).

 

The _fact_ is that GW2 offers fractals and easier raid paths as training for raids. If a player can manage fractal CM's, surely the easier raids are not a bridge too far. Path-specific mechanics can be learned on Youtube, probably about as easy as they can be learned in a more forgiving version.

 

The mistakes?

 

+ The assumption that learning opportunities do not exist, when they do. Since those opportunities do exist, it follows that players asking for a "training raid" are not willing to use them. If "lack of willingness" is the problem, then what guarantee is there that a different training opportunity _would_ be used?

+ The assumption that adding a training version of raid paths would be a trivial programming task. We've been told by ANet _not_ to assume that, and yet posters continue to do so. So where do those resources come from? Does ANet further slow raid development? Do they take resources from fractals? From main map PvE? In case you have not noticed, there is consistent agitation for faster content delivery pace in all of those areas.

+ The assumption that training raids would address the biggest issues related to raid accessibility. Those are: unwillingness to form one's own group; and unwillingness to adapt to player demands for specific builds and rotations. Note that the second "unwillingness" can be overcome by overcoming the first. However, overcoming the first requires patience.

[phs.6089]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > You guys are funny.

> > > > OP asks for training mode, you go ahead and tell that they want the reward. Did they tell anything about that exclusive reward?

> > > > OP ask for a place to go practice raids, with bit of less damage, you tell, that people will cheese mech. How many mech you cheese in raids?

> > > > OP asking for possibilty to get familiar with raids at own time, with like-mind people, you tell them there is OW metas.

> > >

> > > + What is the point of a training raid if it is not to get into the real thing to get the rewards? Training or "practice" raids will not make it easier to get into the real thing at some later point. The OP and others may think it will, but they are mistaken.

> > >

> > I beg to differ. Again other games have it and it works. It works becasue not everyone has time to meet the training runs with guilds. I mean how many training runs a guild can stomach per week? 1-2? Max 2, right? When? Weekend right?

> > Not everyone is spending weekends in game. Training intaces work cus you can hop in pugs and go learn when you can. That is how most fractal runners got to t4s, got in t1 when they wanted, moved to t2, leaned in t3, now they are running daily t4s and most of them do CM+dailies.

> > So what are the mistakes? The only mistake i see here is 'no loot at all' in OP suggestion. But common sence tells that there should be a bit of shards(200 per wek?) maybe accedes to ascended trinkets from raids? etc. Not envoy collection and items ofc.

>

> Are those "other games" more raid-centered than GW2 is? WoW, the most glaring example, certainly is (or was when I played it).

>

> The _fact_ is that GW2 offers fractals and easier raid paths as training for raids. If a player can manage fractal CM's, surely the easier raids are not a bridge too far. Path-specific mechanics can be learned on Youtube, probably about as easy as they can be learned in a more forgiving version.

>

> The mistakes?

>

> + The assumption that learning opportunities do not exist, when they do. Since those opportunities do exist, it follows that players asking for a "training raid" are not willing to use them. If "lack of willingness" is the problem, then what guarantee is there that a different training opportunity _would_ be used?

> + The assumption that adding a training version of raid paths would be a trivial programming task. We've been told by ANet _not_ to assume that, and yet posters continue to do so. So where do those resources come from? Does ANet further slow raid development? Do they take resources from fractals? From main map PvE? In case you have not noticed, there is consistent agitation for faster content delivery pace in all of those areas.

> + The assumption that training raids would address the biggest issues related to raid accessibility. Those are: unwillingness to form one's own group; and unwillingness to adapt to player demands for specific builds and rotations. Note that the second "unwillingness" can be overcome by overcoming the first. However, overcoming the first requires patience.

 

Listen you are literally denying the actuality. Fractals have difficulty level in this game and it works just fine.

There is no fractal that teaches raids mech. Easy encounters don't teach medium and hard bosses. Your arguments are invalid.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Players don’t need to learn mechanics specific to raids (in regards to a training mode for raids). They just need to learn to identify mechanics and how to execute them. Fractals provides this.

[phs.6089]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Players don’t need to learn mechanics specific to raids (in regards to a training mode for raids). They just need to learn to identify mechanics and how to execute them. Fractals provides this.

 

How oranges taste?

You should try apples, you will know the answer.

[Gimli.9461]

My issue w raids is I can't bring any class, I have to bring specific class. So if I picked lets say Necro as my main, levelled up, depending on current balance I'll find that raids are running: 6 mesmers 2 warriors, 2 druids. So I end up having to build one of those even if I don't enjoy the class. It's a nuisance.

 

If they build mechanics that reward bringing at least 1 of each class (is this what 'skill X affects 10 people' is all about?), and balance things out so it's quite clear what your build should be - I think it'd be more pleasant to get into then. I can then advertise on lfg with whatever class that I'm looking to learn/try a raid without worrying I have to have 3 toons geared and that I have to tweak their gear next balance patch.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Players don’t need to learn mechanics specific to raids (in regards to a training mode for raids). They just need to learn to identify mechanics and how to execute them. Fractals provides this.

>

> How oranges taste?

> You should try apples, you will know the answer.

 

Mechanics are the same. The only difference is the number of people.

 

There’s a reason why people that raided in other MMO’s performed better than those with no experience. The ability to recognize and execute mechanics can be learned anywhere.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > You guys are funny.

> > > OP asks for training mode, you go ahead and tell that they want the reward. Did they tell anything about that exclusive reward?

> > > OP ask for a place to go practice raids, with bit of less damage, you tell, that people will cheese mech. How many mech you cheese in raids?

> > > OP asking for possibilty to get familiar with raids at own time, with like-mind people, you tell them there is OW metas.

> >

> > + What is the point of a training raid if it is not to get into the real thing to get the rewards? Training or "practice" raids will not make it easier to get into the real thing at some later point. The OP and others may think it will, but they are mistaken.

> >

> I beg to differ. Again other games have it and it works. It works becasue not everyone has time to meet the training runs with guilds. I mean how many training runs a guild can stomach per week? 1-2? Max 2, right? When? Weekend right?

> Not everyone is spending weekends in game. Training intaces work cus you can hop in pugs and go learn when you can. That is how most fractal runners got to t4s, got in t1 when they wanted, moved to t2, leaned in t3, now they are running daily t4s and most of them do CM+dailies.

> So what are the mistakes? The only mistake i see here is 'no loot at all' in OP suggestion. But common sence tells that there should be a bit of shards(200 per wek?) maybe accedes to ascended trinkets from raids? etc. Not envoy collection and items ofc.

>

 

Personality ill lead one daily in My guild and others lead aswell so..

[sokeenoppa.5384]

> @"sokeenoppa.5384" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > You guys are funny.

> > > > OP asks for training mode, you go ahead and tell that they want the reward. Did they tell anything about that exclusive reward?

> > > > OP ask for a place to go practice raids, with bit of less damage, you tell, that people will cheese mech. How many mech you cheese in raids?

> > > > OP asking for possibilty to get familiar with raids at own time, with like-mind people, you tell them there is OW metas.

> > >

> > > + What is the point of a training raid if it is not to get into the real thing to get the rewards? Training or "practice" raids will not make it easier to get into the real thing at some later point. The OP and others may think it will, but they are mistaken.

> > >

> > I beg to differ. Again other games have it and it works. It works becasue not everyone has time to meet the training runs with guilds. I mean how many training runs a guild can stomach per week? 1-2? Max 2, right? When? Weekend right?

> > Not everyone is spending weekends in game. Training intaces work cus you can hop in pugs and go learn when you can. That is how most fractal runners got to t4s, got in t1 when they wanted, moved to t2, leaned in t3, now they are running daily t4s and most of them do CM+dailies.

> > So what are the mistakes? The only mistake i see here is 'no loot at all' in OP suggestion. But common sence tells that there should be a bit of shards(200 per wek?) maybe accedes to ascended trinkets from raids? etc. Not envoy collection and items ofc.

> >

>

> Personality ill lead one daily in My guild and others on my guild lead aswell so..

 

 

[Etria.3642]

swtor put in story mode raids and 80% of the folks did that and only that and when the few who tried to go up into hard did, they suffered sticker shock. Why? Because originally, the story mode raids were still 'too hard' so they got dumbed down(colored circles added to show you where to stand, damage reduced, etc) but hard and nightmare were left alone. (They eventually changed the names of hard and nightmare but I honestly can't remember to what, even though I played years after the change.

 

SWTOR also had 2 raids that are decidedly easier than the others, and even when people do transition to hm they tend to stick to those two raids. ESPECIALLY because the rewards and gear for a hm raid is the same for those two as all the others, save for a few mounts and such. They even removed the VERY COOL skins from the original nightmare modes. Which contributed to me leaving. Never did complete my Kell Dragon set, though I got very very close. Never got the mount drop from TFB either. Sadness. But after taking a six month break I did not care to deal with regearing everyone, AGAIN, both sides.

 

And then I came here! And omg ascended is ascended is ascended. Anyway back to raids. There is this misconception that you CANNOT raid on ANY class. Well, yes you can. Necro? Sure. Gear it, and learn the most optimal rotation for that class, and learn it well, like the back of your hand. Better. Parse on the dummy. Practice. Get your dps to at least 10k. Yep, just 10k. You don't need this nonsense of 33k or bust like on Snowcrows. But if you actually do know your rotation that well, I'm guessing it'll be closer to 15-18 with food and buffs. Then join your training run and oh hey look, your dps is right on par with the other folks learning and probably better. And if the group /follows mechanics/, you get it down.

 

Just stay away from the LFG groups wanting the 33k and you'll do fine. And who knows. From the drops you get, you might decide to try another class. Or you won't. We have folks who solidly sit on their same dps classes week in and week out, and we get the clears, and they are usually 3rd or 4th. What you can't do, is grab your insta 80 character that you've played a month and can succeed on Teq but if someone asks you what your 3 skill does you don't know, and you don't know how your skills synergize with your other skills and buffs, you won't move out of mechanics, you like one weapon and won't change to a more optimal one, well. Yeah, you won't succeed. But I can't think of a single class that can't do at least 10k.

[runeblade.7514]

> @"Dondarrion.2748" said:

> Your assumption that training raids would make raids more accessible is wrong. What you need is training guilds - which there are already lots of - and that people actually bother to learn their class, builds. Training guilds in NA and EU have been around for a long time taking sub-optimal groups - albeit mostly according to profession composition - but not necessarily with players kitted out as is optimal. They take time to explain the strat carefully, the group will have tries and wipes are expected because everyone is to learn, and if you want to try a particular mechanic at some boss, you can try that if you let your training raid leader know.

>

> THIS is the training mode, raising awareness of such training guilds and learning to beat raids in normal mode is key to making raids more accessible.

>

> And a lot more to back the argument here :-

 

If raids were accessible, we wouldn't need training guilds.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"phs.6089" said:

>

> Listen you are literally denying the actuality. Fractals have difficulty level in this game and it works just fine.

> There is no fractal that teaches raids mech. Easy encounters don't teach medium and hard bosses. Your arguments are invalid.

 

+ I'm denying nothing. You are not understanding my points.

+ Yes, Fractals are designed to offer tiered difficulty. This was originally done to create a sense of progression -- which complainers felt was lacking in GW2 -- as players slowly amassed Agony resistance to be able to withstand that mechanic in higher tiers. This also meant that players could find their comfort level and stay there.

+ Raids, while designed to be the pinnacle of harder instanced PvE, also offer a range of difficulty in different paths. It's just that there are not 100 tiers of difficulty for each with marginal differences between them. Nor is there an Agony mechanic. This means that ANet took a different approach to tiered difficulty in raids, not that there is no tiered difficulty.

+ The harder Fractals teach working together, buffing each other, tackling different mechanics when needed, build design and rotations, all of which are useful skills for _any_ harder instanced content, including raids. Easier raid paths also teach these things

+ No, Fractals and easier raid paths don't teach the harder raid boss mechanics. That's all they don't teach, though. Mechanics are the easiest aspects of raid performance to learn -- assuming one is willing to spend a little time on Youtube.

 

So, the suggestion in this thread boils down to, "I don't want to do trial and error with raids as is, I'm unwilling to work up to raids with the learning opportunities currently available and I prefer the developers build a new raid mode so that I don't have to do anything other than queue for that mode."

[HawkXtream.1538]

In order to get people to take in more new player in raid. dev should reward the whole team IF the squad has at least 2 to 3 players that have done raid lesser than X amount of time. :)

 

Personally I don't do raid, because I do not have the time to learn it and I also don't really want other to waste their precious time teaching me. Because I did fractal CM mode lvl100 once, it took us 3 hours to finish it. I do appreciate the guy who lead the practice party though. This kind of player has extinct.

[Shikaru.7618]

With very few exceptions like Dhuum mechanics or Qadim kiting, you can learn most of the fundamentals in fractals, dungeons and fotm CMs. Of the numerous beginner training raids I've been in, the root cause of failure is rarely ever because of a lack of boss mechanic training opportunities.

 

It's almost always a lack of understanding of how the game is played. They don't stack tightly. They dont know how to break a bar. They are running some random mix of stats and traits because they feel like some vitality toughness and healing is needed to survive as a dps. They think "Dead dps is no dps" so people who run glass cannon are just liabilities. They don't know how to avoid damage efficiently and spend 2 dodges when none are needed. Theyre too busy staring at their skill bar or some other unimportant area of the screen when they should be looking at boss tells and listening for audio cues.

 

The training groups that fix some or most of these fundamentals have gone and killed multiple bosses. Those who think these skills are just a way for people to be elitist are the ones crying about accessibility. You can learn all of these fundamentals outside of raids in t4s and fractal cms. These are the most important gameplay skills to be successful in killing raid bosses. Go learn them in the modes that are already available and you'll breeze through most raid fights.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Gimli.9461" said:

> My issue w raids is I can't bring any class, I have to bring specific class. So if I picked lets say Necro as my main, levelled up, depending on current balance I'll find that raids are running: 6 mesmers 2 warriors, 2 druids. So I end up having to build one of those even if I don't enjoy the class. It's a nuisance.

>

> If they build mechanics that reward bringing at least 1 of each class (is this what 'skill X affects 10 people' is all about?), and balance things out so it's quite clear what your build should be - I think it'd be more pleasant to get into then. I can then advertise on lfg with whatever class that I'm looking to learn/try a raid without worrying I have to have 3 toons geared and that I have to tweak their gear next balance patch.

 

What happens when all the necro spots in all those groups are filled already?