XECOR.2814 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > In other games, instead of "down", they give you healer to ress them. In this game, they remove ress to be replace with downs. > > No? Most video games don't have dedicated healers, and the ones that do they can only res you when you are dead and it takes a long time, you can't be saved by having numbers basically.> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? > > > > Where do you draw the line? > > In WoW using a mount has a cast time. Also mounts have no health bars, evade frames or abilities. > > I mean that is 100x better balance than what we have for a PvP mode than what we currently have lol. > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > cuz this game isn't other games > > > > > > And? No argument on why downstate is good/bad given here. When i went in and died suddenly because i forgot about the event i was a bit shook, then i realised that i was being kind of silly because i was shook *about the fact that my character died when they were killed*. > > > > this games combat was designed around downstate. it doesn't function properly without it, preference notwithstanding. I think there are ways to replace down state, but to remove it altogether with nothing to replace it would be bad for the game. > > WvW and class balance/mobility also wasn't designed around mounts. > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said: > > This just sounds like a plot to keep the cancerous LB SB ‘relevant’. Which needs to be nerfed to the ground. > > > > If they ‘remove’ the no downstate then they can replace it with res mechanic similar to GW1 and have other players be able to res during combat. > > > > > > Why is one build cancerous but others that are way more impactful/stronger aren't like scourges/firebrands/scrappers lol. Meta build is meta build, no difference. So cancerous when the soulbeasts shoots arrows in their blob and everything reflects onto your own team. > > Why does the only build that can deal with mounts have to be nerfed? Less counterplay is good? Because they can 100-0 you multiple times in succession from an unreachable distance and it gets exponentially broken in a small scale fight or tower defend as they can attack unnoticed or free cast. Sb remove any chance of outnumbered fight. Small scale fights with sb is basically if you dont focus sb then your teammates will fall in an instant 1 by 1. It does not help that only thief and mirage can keep up with their mobility and they have invuln+stealth+evade frames+perma prot too. This build is extremely easy to play and extremely unhealthy for wvw. If anet has any balance team they say there is they need to butcher this spec because its sucking fun out of wvw and slowly killing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"XECOR.2814" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > In other games, instead of "down", they give you healer to ress them. In this game, they remove ress to be replace with downs. > > > > No? Most video games don't have dedicated healers, and the ones that do they can only res you when you are dead and it takes a long time, you can't be saved by having numbers basically.> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? > > > > > > Where do you draw the line? > > > In WoW using a mount has a cast time. Also mounts have no health bars, evade frames or abilities. > > > > I mean that is 100x better balance than what we have for a PvP mode than what we currently have lol. > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > cuz this game isn't other games > > > > > > > > And? No argument on why downstate is good/bad given here. When i went in and died suddenly because i forgot about the event i was a bit shook, then i realised that i was being kind of silly because i was shook *about the fact that my character died when they were killed*. > > > > > > this games combat was designed around downstate. it doesn't function properly without it, preference notwithstanding. I think there are ways to replace down state, but to remove it altogether with nothing to replace it would be bad for the game. > > > > WvW and class balance/mobility also wasn't designed around mounts. > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said: > > > This just sounds like a plot to keep the cancerous LB SB ‘relevant’. Which needs to be nerfed to the ground. > > > > > > If they ‘remove’ the no downstate then they can replace it with res mechanic similar to GW1 and have other players be able to res during combat. > > > > > > > > > > Why is one build cancerous but others that are way more impactful/stronger aren't like scourges/firebrands/scrappers lol. Meta build is meta build, no difference. So cancerous when the soulbeasts shoots arrows in their blob and everything reflects onto your own team. > > > > Why does the only build that can deal with mounts have to be nerfed? Less counterplay is good? > > Because they can 100-0 you multiple times in succession from an unreachable distance and it gets exponentially broken in a small scale fight or tower defend as they can attack unnoticed or free cast. Sb remove any chance of outnumbered fight. Small scale fights with sb is basically if you dont focus sb then your teammates will fall in an instant 1 by 1. It does not help that only thief and mirage can keep up with their mobility and they have invuln+stealth+evade frames+perma prot too. This build is extremely easy to play and extremely unhealthy for wvw. If anet has any balance team they say there is they need to butcher this spec because its sucking fun out of wvw and slowly killing it. They have never 100-0'd me if i dodged twice, then they where helpless after that if they ran glass build. You can also pop an invul if you have that. Evade frames and perma prot how? We are talking longbow not boonbeast here. This build isn't sucking the fun out of WvW, you are talking about lack of counterplay towards the build which is the only build with a relative amount of counterplay towards mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XECOR.2814 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"XECOR.2814" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > In other games, instead of "down", they give you healer to ress them. In this game, they remove ress to be replace with downs. > > > > > > No? Most video games don't have dedicated healers, and the ones that do they can only res you when you are dead and it takes a long time, you can't be saved by having numbers basically.> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? > > > > > > > > Where do you draw the line? > > > > In WoW using a mount has a cast time. Also mounts have no health bars, evade frames or abilities. > > > > > > I mean that is 100x better balance than what we have for a PvP mode than what we currently have lol. > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > cuz this game isn't other games > > > > > > > > > > And? No argument on why downstate is good/bad given here. When i went in and died suddenly because i forgot about the event i was a bit shook, then i realised that i was being kind of silly because i was shook *about the fact that my character died when they were killed*. > > > > > > > > this games combat was designed around downstate. it doesn't function properly without it, preference notwithstanding. I think there are ways to replace down state, but to remove it altogether with nothing to replace it would be bad for the game. > > > > > > WvW and class balance/mobility also wasn't designed around mounts. > > > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said: > > > > This just sounds like a plot to keep the cancerous LB SB ‘relevant’. Which needs to be nerfed to the ground. > > > > > > > > If they ‘remove’ the no downstate then they can replace it with res mechanic similar to GW1 and have other players be able to res during combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is one build cancerous but others that are way more impactful/stronger aren't like scourges/firebrands/scrappers lol. Meta build is meta build, no difference. So cancerous when the soulbeasts shoots arrows in their blob and everything reflects onto your own team. > > > > > > Why does the only build that can deal with mounts have to be nerfed? Less counterplay is good? > > > > Because they can 100-0 you multiple times in succession from an unreachable distance and it gets exponentially broken in a small scale fight or tower defend as they can attack unnoticed or free cast. Sb remove any chance of outnumbered fight. Small scale fights with sb is basically if you dont focus sb then your teammates will fall in an instant 1 by 1. It does not help that only thief and mirage can keep up with their mobility and they have invuln+stealth+evade frames+perma prot too. This build is extremely easy to play and extremely unhealthy for wvw. If anet has any balance team they say there is they need to butcher this spec because its sucking fun out of wvw and slowly killing it. > > They have never 100-0'd me if i dodged twice, then they where helpless after that if they ran glass build. You can also pop an invul if you have that. > > Evade frames and perma prot how? We are talking longbow not boonbeast here. > > This build isn't sucking the fun out of WvW, you are talking about lack of counterplay towards the build which is the only build with a relative amount of counterplay towards mounts. jUsT dOdGe Keep defending this build. Play alone in empty wvw maps later. Why does wvw community want to kill its own gamemode so much idk. Really just jump into wvw and see why you cant avoid dying unless you blow all your defensive cds to avoid one of their many attacks that shave half your hp in 1 second. Not to mention if you are necro then your fate is sealed as soon as you come in 1200+ range and watch them autoattack you to death following you. Lb sb still can maintain stupid amount of boon uptimes and everything else i said before. Ugghhhh I hate these conversations where someone says an incomplete reply which completely ignores what the original comment meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"XECOR.2814" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"XECOR.2814" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > In other games, instead of "down", they give you healer to ress them. In this game, they remove ress to be replace with downs. > > > > > > > > No? Most video games don't have dedicated healers, and the ones that do they can only res you when you are dead and it takes a long time, you can't be saved by having numbers basically.> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? > > > > > > > > > > Where do you draw the line? > > > > > In WoW using a mount has a cast time. Also mounts have no health bars, evade frames or abilities. > > > > > > > > I mean that is 100x better balance than what we have for a PvP mode than what we currently have lol. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > cuz this game isn't other games > > > > > > > > > > > > And? No argument on why downstate is good/bad given here. When i went in and died suddenly because i forgot about the event i was a bit shook, then i realised that i was being kind of silly because i was shook *about the fact that my character died when they were killed*. > > > > > > > > > > this games combat was designed around downstate. it doesn't function properly without it, preference notwithstanding. I think there are ways to replace down state, but to remove it altogether with nothing to replace it would be bad for the game. > > > > > > > > WvW and class balance/mobility also wasn't designed around mounts. > > > > > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said: > > > > > This just sounds like a plot to keep the cancerous LB SB ‘relevant’. Which needs to be nerfed to the ground. > > > > > > > > > > If they ‘remove’ the no downstate then they can replace it with res mechanic similar to GW1 and have other players be able to res during combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is one build cancerous but others that are way more impactful/stronger aren't like scourges/firebrands/scrappers lol. Meta build is meta build, no difference. So cancerous when the soulbeasts shoots arrows in their blob and everything reflects onto your own team. > > > > > > > > Why does the only build that can deal with mounts have to be nerfed? Less counterplay is good? > > > > > > Because they can 100-0 you multiple times in succession from an unreachable distance and it gets exponentially broken in a small scale fight or tower defend as they can attack unnoticed or free cast. Sb remove any chance of outnumbered fight. Small scale fights with sb is basically if you dont focus sb then your teammates will fall in an instant 1 by 1. It does not help that only thief and mirage can keep up with their mobility and they have invuln+stealth+evade frames+perma prot too. This build is extremely easy to play and extremely unhealthy for wvw. If anet has any balance team they say there is they need to butcher this spec because its sucking fun out of wvw and slowly killing it. > > > > They have never 100-0'd me if i dodged twice, then they where helpless after that if they ran glass build. You can also pop an invul if you have that. > > > > Evade frames and perma prot how? We are talking longbow not boonbeast here. > > > > This build isn't sucking the fun out of WvW, you are talking about lack of counterplay towards the build which is the only build with a relative amount of counterplay towards mounts. > > jUsT dOdGe > > Keep defending this build. Play alone in empty wvw maps later. Why does wvw community want to kill its own gamemode so much idk. > > Really just jump into wvw and see why you cant avoid dying unless you blow all your defensive cds to avoid one of their many attacks that shave half your hp in 1 second. Not to mention if you are necro then your fate is sealed as soon as you come in 1200+ range and watch them autoattack you to death following you. Lb sb still can maintain stupid amount of boon uptimes and everything else i said before. Ugghhhh > > I hate these conversations where someone says an incomplete reply which completely ignores what the original comment meant. How you handle Soulbeast and that long range damage can entirely depend on where you are fighting. Breaking LoS with structures or terrain can be a life saver, you might not *always* need cooldowns to avoid it. That being said, damage is still pretty power crept especially in relation to Soulbeast and a few other classes like Berserker's new Arc Divider. To be perfectly honest the biggest issue with Soulbeast is that a 1500 range weapon has a skill that hits 10 times and can get its damage boosted not just from being in Beast Mode but also Sic 'Em. Imagine if Warrior could enter a mode with no duration that also gave a power/ferocity boost and their Hundred Blades was 1500 range, allowed them to move and could make it unblockable? Longbow needs a single shot snipe skill to replace Rapid Fire, move Rapid fire elsewhere. Hell why not make it a Utility skill and have it apply Quickness and Alacrity? You know...give it a similar function to *exactly* what it was in GW1. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire That way if you use it in conjunction with Longbow you can get a quick shot of the single shot snipe skill and reduce its cooldown by a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 In other games you don't have skills on a 20-30 cooldown that can heal you all the way to 60-75% HP without the need of a dedicated healer, or builds that can kill in less than 3 seconds while having open environments with no cover from attacks like sniper rifles and rocket launchers, no bodyblock and no attacks that can bypass obstructions. Or they just outright have resurrections. GW2 revive skills do not work on defeated players, only downed ones. By the way, revive skills should NOT work on objective NPCs that do not despawn when defeated like lords either. NPCs meant to be revived should get downed like players, be susceptible to finishers and revive skills while downed, and be only revived after defeat while out of combat like with players. If an enemy can revive a lord with a Banner of Heroes, an ally should also be able to finish the lord and make sure they can't get revived. > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > In other games, instead of "down", they give you healer to ress them. In this game, they remove ress to be replace with downs. Going in PvP without a resurrection signet or any other resurrection skills was considered pure insanity by many in GW1. And asking to get resurrections removed would be even more insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > In other games you don't have skills on a 20-30 cooldown that can heal you all the way to 60-75% HP without the need of a dedicated healer, or builds that can kill in less than 3 seconds while having open environments with no cover from attacks like sniper rifles and rocket launchers, no bodyblock and no attacks that can bypass obstructions. > Or they just outright have resurrections. GW2 revive skills do not work on defeated players, only downed ones. > > By the way, revive skills should NOT work on objective NPCs that do not despawn when defeated like lords either. NPCs meant to be revived should get downed like players, be susceptible to finishers and revive skills while downed, and be only revived after defeat while out of combat like with players. If an enemy can revive a lord with a Banner of Heroes, an ally should also be able to finish the lord and make sure they can't get revived. > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > In other games, instead of "down", they give you healer to ress them. In this game, they remove ress to be replace with downs. > > Going in PvP without a resurrection signet or any other resurrection skills was considered pure insanity by many in GW1. And asking to get resurrections removed would be even more insane. > Thats why I have consistently and repeatedly suggested that they *rework* revive skills to work on full dead, or defeated, players. Reasonably they would need longer cooldowns, ideally 5 minutes, and only revive 1 person per revive skill used so that multiple people in the group would, or should, bring them along. No one wants revives or resurrections removed, we want them improved and not be in the sorry state they are in with Downed State and Rally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkamania.7561 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 If they fixed the insane power creep in wvw then it would be pretty good but ATM the wvw balance is the worst of any game mode so that needs to be fixed first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuickFox.3826 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"XECOR.2814" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"XECOR.2814" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > In other games, instead of "down", they give you healer to ress them. In this game, they remove ress to be replace with downs. > > > > > > > > No? Most video games don't have dedicated healers, and the ones that do they can only res you when you are dead and it takes a long time, you can't be saved by having numbers basically.> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? > > > > > > > > > > Where do you draw the line? > > > > > In WoW using a mount has a cast time. Also mounts have no health bars, evade frames or abilities. > > > > > > > > I mean that is 100x better balance than what we have for a PvP mode than what we currently have lol. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > cuz this game isn't other games > > > > > > > > > > > > And? No argument on why downstate is good/bad given here. When i went in and died suddenly because i forgot about the event i was a bit shook, then i realised that i was being kind of silly because i was shook *about the fact that my character died when they were killed*. > > > > > > > > > > this games combat was designed around downstate. it doesn't function properly without it, preference notwithstanding. I think there are ways to replace down state, but to remove it altogether with nothing to replace it would be bad for the game. > > > > > > > > WvW and class balance/mobility also wasn't designed around mounts. > > > > > > > > > @"DragonSlayer.1087" said: > > > > > This just sounds like a plot to keep the cancerous LB SB ‘relevant’. Which needs to be nerfed to the ground. > > > > > > > > > > If they ‘remove’ the no downstate then they can replace it with res mechanic similar to GW1 and have other players be able to res during combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is one build cancerous but others that are way more impactful/stronger aren't like scourges/firebrands/scrappers lol. Meta build is meta build, no difference. So cancerous when the soulbeasts shoots arrows in their blob and everything reflects onto your own team. > > > > > > > > Why does the only build that can deal with mounts have to be nerfed? Less counterplay is good? > > > > > > Because they can 100-0 you multiple times in succession from an unreachable distance and it gets exponentially broken in a small scale fight or tower defend as they can attack unnoticed or free cast. Sb remove any chance of outnumbered fight. Small scale fights with sb is basically if you dont focus sb then your teammates will fall in an instant 1 by 1. It does not help that only thief and mirage can keep up with their mobility and they have invuln+stealth+evade frames+perma prot too. This build is extremely easy to play and extremely unhealthy for wvw. If anet has any balance team they say there is they need to butcher this spec because its sucking fun out of wvw and slowly killing it. > > > > They have never 100-0'd me if i dodged twice, then they where helpless after that if they ran glass build. You can also pop an invul if you have that. > > > > Evade frames and perma prot how? We are talking longbow not boonbeast here. > > > > This build isn't sucking the fun out of WvW, you are talking about lack of counterplay towards the build which is the only build with a relative amount of counterplay towards mounts. > > jUsT dOdGe > > Keep defending this build. Play alone in empty wvw maps later. Why does wvw community want to kill its own gamemode so much idk. > > Really just jump into wvw and see why you cant avoid dying unless you blow all your defensive cds to avoid one of their many attacks that shave half your hp in 1 second. Not to mention if you are necro then your fate is sealed as soon as you come in 1200+ range and watch them autoattack you to death following you. Lb sb still can maintain stupid amount of boon uptimes and everything else i said before. Ugghhhh > > I hate these conversations where someone says an incomplete reply which completely ignores what the original comment meant. Then why don't you "just dodge" it? Like why do youi refuse to? After dodging the zerk ranger is an easy target. You can also pop an invul. Necros are very strong in other situations which justifies them being weak in this one specific situation, thats called balance, the opposite of this situation where you are good and the ranger is bad happens in group play too. > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Mainly because no donwstate favors "one shot builds" and during the event everyone plays like they will die irl if they die ingame. Having downstate also makes the game a bit more than the same old "ME STRONG ME BIG DAMAGE ME KILL YOU!!!" playstyle you can get in any other MMORPG, which gets boring pretty fast. Imo the only good thing about no-downstate is the extra exp, but that isn't even that great since wvw levels don't matter after a certain point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"Alehin.3746" said: > Mainly because no donwstate favors "one shot builds" and during the event everyone plays like they will die irl if they die ingame. Having downstate also makes the game a bit more than the same old "ME STRONG ME BIG DAMAGE ME KILL YOU!!!" playstyle you can get in any other MMORPG, which gets boring pretty fast. > Imo the only good thing about no-downstate is the extra exp, but that isn't even that great since wvw levels don't matter after a certain point. But you can also not get oneshot, the only oneshot that has no counterplay is deadeye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? Because unlike other games here you have traits in your build and class mechanics that's function around this downed mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"Knighthonor.4061" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? > > Because unlike other games here you have traits in your build and class mechanics that's function around this downed mechanics. Very few, and very few of which are used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > Like poeple die when they are killed is normal in other games so why is it a big deal here? > > > > Because unlike other games here you have traits in your build and class mechanics that's function around this downed mechanics. > > Very few, and very few of which are used. Speak for yourself bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > If you go around playing the ele tank build then you are more useless than even a SB in zergs. Only place where that stuff is playable is roaming, and guess what. SB is way better at roaming than any ele build. If you face an ele as an SB, you can either kite them endlessly if they are the tanky variants, or you can just burst them easily if they are glass. If they dodge your rapid fire burst just avoid their burst, which is harder to land than yours btw. Basically permanent no downstate would make ele a near worthless class in WvW. The only use of the class would be a 3rd rate support build in zergs and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuickFox.3826 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > I'm playing Cele-Ele (Tempest). 20k health. Still getting killed in seconds. In my opinion, Eles get hit hard by no-downstate. Personally, I dislike it. Or just make it optional, then every player can decide for themselves if they like to enable or disable downedstate. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > > > > If you go around playing the ele tank build then you are more useless than even a SB in zergs. Only place where that stuff is playable is roaming, and guess what. SB is way better at roaming than any ele build. If you face an ele as an SB, you can either kite them endlessly if they are the tanky variants, or you can just burst them easily if they are glass. If they dodge your rapid fire burst just avoid their burst, which is harder to land than yours btw. Basically permanent no downstate would make ele a near worthless class in WvW. The only use of the class would be a 3rd rate support build in zergs and that's it. > No SB will kill my ele lol, i got like 7 evades and infinite heals with a ton of armor. > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > > > > I'm playing Cele-Ele (Tempest). 20k health. Still getting killed in seconds. In my opinion, Eles get hit hard by no-downstate. Personally, I dislike it. > > Or just make it optional, then every player can decide for themselves if they like to enable or disable downedstate. ;) Then you must not dodge, my weaver has 17k and never gets oneshot. I got like 7 evades too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > Mainly because no donwstate favors "one shot builds" and during the event everyone plays like they will die irl if they die ingame. Having downstate also makes the game a bit more than the same old "ME STRONG ME BIG DAMAGE ME KILL YOU!!!" playstyle you can get in any other MMORPG, which gets boring pretty fast. > > Imo the only good thing about no-downstate is the extra exp, but that isn't even that great since wvw levels don't matter after a certain point. > > But you can also not get oneshot, the only oneshot that has no counterplay is deadeye. But when you do get oneshot your team can't ress you and that's a big part of teamplay in gw2. Oneshot builds (specially ranged) aren't great at cleaving downed enemies, specially if theres a support ressing them, and no downstate makes them ridiculously viable because of that. Also deadeye does have counterplay, DJ makes a very loud sound so you always dodge 1/2~1 second after the sound. Also since it's only one hit, you can easily ignore all it's damage with only one dodge/aegis/blind, while soulbeast's rapidfire are TEN hits. Rifle DE is probably the weakest 1shot build currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"hunkamania.7561" said: > If they fixed the insane power creep in wvw then it would be pretty good but ATM the wvw balance is the worst of any game mode so that needs to be fixed first I was told in a streaming that the reason for the need of increasingly toxicity>powercreep is because that is what Anet investors need to increase the game revenue. A supposedly an Anet personal had commented about it in a public platform. I have yet to see that post. It does make sense in every way that the game was never designed or intended to be a long term fun game but a quick short excitement game. What does toxicity has to do with it than if you may ask? By implemented Toxicity in the game design; it result in getting players to pump out more cash due to excitement of Power-Creep. I will more sense in this example (Example; a fun game start of slow in profit but gradually increase in long term profit= Increase Revenue. A excitement game with having toxicity= starts of fast in profit and slowly decreases in long term profit= Decrease Revenue. The only way to keep the toxic excitement strong is to increase toxicity more=increase excitement more--like increasing Power-Creep more just to keep the profit margin high) That is why i believe that is Anet choice of taking that route with the game. In other word; the more toxicity=the more quick profi. And if increasing toxicity is not enough; increase its influence as much as possible to keep it present to increase quick profit. Like the no down-state event we just had. In other word; the intent of having no-down state even was to promote toxicity to increase more profits=more revenue; period. The more damage=the more excitement=more quick profit (I was really surprised after hearing about this and witnessing the evidences; it all make sense now if i am not wrong, why our concerns to turn the game around to a healthy competitive fun game are continually being ignored in favor for toxicity) -The entire game was designed as a cash machine in mind; not for fun in the long term-unlike Guild Wars 1 being designed as a long term fun healthy competitive game. (**This is my personal including others observation, evidences and personal including others opinion**) ---side note--- **The intention behind in designing Thief and Mesmer as toxic profession were not a mistake but intentional** --now that toxicity margin has been increased and spread out---now every profession can be almost at par with them. -sorry for the long post; i had promised not to do it but had to after the live stream. I hope i make sense and if not; i would appreciate if someone would explain it better (have a good day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > > > > I'm playing Cele-Ele (Tempest). 20k health. Still getting killed in seconds. In my opinion, Eles get hit hard by no-downstate. Personally, I dislike it. > > Or just make it optional, then every player can decide for themselves if they like to enable or disable downedstate. ;) One of the few things I will miss with no downed state, jumping repeatedly on the eles that die just outside doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > Mainly because no donwstate favors "one shot builds" and during the event everyone plays like they will die irl if they die ingame. Having downstate also makes the game a bit more than the same old "ME STRONG ME BIG DAMAGE ME KILL YOU!!!" playstyle you can get in any other MMORPG, which gets boring pretty fast. > > > Imo the only good thing about no-downstate is the extra exp, but that isn't even that great since wvw levels don't matter after a certain point. > > > > But you can also not get oneshot, the only oneshot that has no counterplay is deadeye. > > But when you do get oneshot your team can't ress you and that's a big part of teamplay in gw2. Oneshot builds (specially ranged) aren't great at cleaving downed enemies, specially if theres a support ressing them, and no downstate makes them ridiculously viable because of that. > Also deadeye does have counterplay, DJ makes a very loud sound so you always dodge 1/2~1 second after the sound. Also since it's only one hit, you can easily ignore all it's damage with only one dodge/aegis/blind, while soulbeast's rapidfire are TEN hits. Rifle DE is probably the weakest 1shot build currently. The fact that you are talking about DJ shows that you know nothing about DE lol. Support can also prevent you from getting oneshot, throw some stab a refelct and heals/prot. Downstate just benefits bad players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > Mainly because no donwstate favors "one shot builds" and during the event everyone plays like they will die irl if they die ingame. Having downstate also makes the game a bit more than the same old "ME STRONG ME BIG DAMAGE ME KILL YOU!!!" playstyle you can get in any other MMORPG, which gets boring pretty fast. > > > > Imo the only good thing about no-downstate is the extra exp, but that isn't even that great since wvw levels don't matter after a certain point. > > > > > > But you can also not get oneshot, the only oneshot that has no counterplay is deadeye. > > > > But when you do get oneshot your team can't ress you and that's a big part of teamplay in gw2. Oneshot builds (specially ranged) aren't great at cleaving downed enemies, specially if theres a support ressing them, and no downstate makes them ridiculously viable because of that. > > Also deadeye does have counterplay, DJ makes a very loud sound so you always dodge 1/2~1 second after the sound. Also since it's only one hit, you can easily ignore all it's damage with only one dodge/aegis/blind, while soulbeast's rapidfire are TEN hits. Rifle DE is probably the weakest 1shot build currently. > > The fact that you are talking about DJ shows that you know nothing about DE lol. I know enough to not say "DE have no counterplay" in the forums, that's for sure. What kind of build are you afraid tho? P/P? Just LoS/reflect. Dagger? Just don't afk when they go stealth. It's not that hard, seriously. > Support can also prevent you from getting oneshot, throw some stab a refelct and heals/prot. Downstate just benefits bad players. Yeah your teammates can prevent your death, but builds that 1-shot out of nowhere would be too oppressive and would make fights even more snowball-ish. Downstate sure helps bad players, but good players don't really need it to be removed since they can just cleave the enemy down and even get another kill. If you are gonna play a 1-shot build that can't cleave well or "bruisers", just ask one of your teammates to focus on the downed target and GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > > > > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > > > > > > > If you go around playing the ele tank build then you are more useless than even a SB in zergs. Only place where that stuff is playable is roaming, and guess what. SB is way better at roaming than any ele build. If you face an ele as an SB, you can either kite them endlessly if they are the tanky variants, or you can just burst them easily if they are glass. If they dodge your rapid fire burst just avoid their burst, which is harder to land than yours btw. Basically permanent no downstate would make ele a near worthless class in WvW. The only use of the class would be a 3rd rate support build in zergs and that's it. > > > > No SB will kill my ele lol, i got like 7 evades and infinite heals with a ton of armor. > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > > > > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > > > > > > > I'm playing Cele-Ele (Tempest). 20k health. Still getting killed in seconds. In my opinion, Eles get hit hard by no-downstate. Personally, I dislike it. > > > > Or just make it optional, then every player can decide for themselves if they like to enable or disable downedstate. ;) > > Then you must not dodge, my weaver has 17k and never gets oneshot. I got like 7 evades too. > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Ganathar.4956" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > > > > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > > > > > > > If you go around playing the ele tank build then you are more useless than even a SB in zergs. Only place where that stuff is playable is roaming, and guess what. SB is way better at roaming than any ele build. If you face an ele as an SB, you can either kite them endlessly if they are the tanky variants, or you can just burst them easily if they are glass. If they dodge your rapid fire burst just avoid their burst, which is harder to land than yours btw. Basically permanent no downstate would make ele a near worthless class in WvW. The only use of the class would be a 3rd rate support build in zergs and that's it. > > > > No SB will kill my ele lol, i got like 7 evades and infinite heals with a ton of armor. > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > > > > Because I consider player health/armor in this game to be low in relation to player damage, causing players to be quickly killed. Especially for fragile professions like the Elementalist. Unless this is mitigated, I consider downstate as a necessity. > > > > > > That depends on your build, no one tells you to play glass, my eles tankyness is only overshadowed by firebrands. Do you choose to play glass ele or play a more balanced build? Weaver has 2 charges of evade, one charge and a dodge should fully cover their burst, after that they are free good if zerker build and in smokescale form. > > > > > > > I'm playing Cele-Ele (Tempest). 20k health. Still getting killed in seconds. In my opinion, Eles get hit hard by no-downstate. Personally, I dislike it. > > > > Or just make it optional, then every player can decide for themselves if they like to enable or disable downedstate. ;) > > Then you must not dodge, my weaver has 17k and never gets oneshot. I got like 7 evades too. Good luck doing damage or catching up to enemies with such build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMANG.1903 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I feel like downstate should be reworked. I like the idea of going through a "weakened" state before truely dying, but the way it is done feels odd. What if we removed the ability to revive someone entirely? That way only healing skills could actually help the downed player? Just right now an idea came to my mind: What if instead of reviving, we could carry the downed player away so they can revive safely themselves? During this they wouldn't take damage over time but neither the downed player or the guy carrying them could do anything else. Perhaps they should even be slowed down as well. Then it would feel like a real commitment to help a downed player, instead of simply chaneling for a few second each time they get defeated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 obviously this all matters in pvp and wvw(not really, but people allways like to change things that has been workign since launch to something they prefer for ..reasons) but what about pve? a guy screws up a mechanic (like bomb on ark due to being a scrub and not look away, gets hit by the fear, leaves the bomb safe zone and wipes 3/5 players) don't you think there would be alot more complaints about toxicity and elitism? there are now allready daily posts "why can't i play with the more experienced people" i don't even wanna think about the amount of salt when downstate would be removed and being killed means permanent death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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